Minato Namikaze vs Itachi Uchiha (Logical Debates Only)

[TheSages456]

Off to a good start?
All itachi has to do is raise his totsuka sword upwards and gamabunta will be sealed

Ftg> amaterasu.. true, but what's your argument? Minato's battle style is oriented around continuous movement.. In the few fights we've seen , he doesn't keep moving constantly... that would be a waste of chakra... I mean at the beginning of the fight he must first scatter his kunai... If your argument is simply that he's too fast for genjutsu, then it's not good enough... If he's making eye contact with itachi, at the beginning it's over ...similar to what happened to Deidara...

With no knowledge what so ever of Amaterasu, he won't be aware of the presigns that signal it, if you're going to argue that he isn't making eye contact..that makes it even worse... with no knowledge of amaterasu and no eyecontact, It leave Minato wide open from getting hit by amaterasu

gamabunta could just pull out his sword in midair to counter.

you need fast reflexes to use ftg. minato teleported away from obitos warping without any knowledge while being warped. once he notices the flames converging near him, he teleports.

it would be like this:

You must be registered for see images

the flames dont hit you the moment they appear. minatos reflexes>Ays.

he avoided eye contact against obito.

 

[Kages]

Minato I believe

 

[Bogard]

Haha so you made it xd
When you make manga knowledge, am i allowed to count the fact that Minato received all the current knowledge by watching inside Naruto?

Close combat:

Minato would have the advantage because of his

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. Not sure if Itachi could react in time, but admitting he smh can, his only hope would be Susanoo since not only Minato is superior to him in speed but only one marking in close combat would be enough to finish the fight. For all those reasons, close combat is out of question in Itachi's case.


So Itachi would most likely try to use genjutsu or mid-long range attacks. Concerning the mid long range attacks, he his arsenal is most likely composed on katon techniques that even Sakura could dodge, so easily dodgeable by someone with Minato's speed. He can even

You must be registered for see links

to Itachi if he really wanted.

Besides, he has Amaterasu or Susanoo. But we have seen that Raikage with Shunshin alone was able

You must be registered for see links

. This pic also shows that eventhough Amaterasu is instant, there is a formation time where the flames have to appear before engulfing the target. This time is enough for someone with great speed like Raikage or an instant teleportation jutsu like Minato to dodge it without problems

Susanoo's powerful hand has shown to be

You must be registered for see links

by Kabuto, so that thing is not touching someone as fast as Minato at all. In fact, Itachi has shown no jutsu(MS included) that could work touch Minato besides genjutsu which would be a non-factor(but i would explain it later)

If Itachi uses Magatama, he risks to be killed by his own jutsu since Minato

You must be registered for see links

as well

Some people always say that Minato can't FTG inside Susanoo, but it's a wrong way of thinking since FTG has shown to have

You must be registered for see links

where Minato can decide to freely teleport himself, and the range of the radius could be seen when he uses his space time barrier. Susanoo on the other hand has shown to only cover the user, so there is space where the user can move himself freely, space you can see in the

You must be registered for see links

. It's for that reason that Gaara was even able to catch Madara from the inside of it

You must be registered for see links

So basically protecting yourself with Susanoo against FTG is pretty much meaningless. When Minato will throw the kunai when Itachi will protect himself with Susanoo, it could be as if the Susanoo was not even existing since the radius of the FTG allow him to warp himself even at a decent distance of his kunais

If needed, Minato can use the

You must be registered for see links

, a technique used to seal giant demonic creatures and could be used to seal multiple opponents at once if needed. The jutsu has shown to be instant, and like i've explained in

You must be registered for see links

, it can be used from a decent distance. This could seal Susanoo and his user without problems since it was able to seal half of Kyubi's chakra plus Kushina's and Minato's own chakra without problems.

Only problem of the technique is the little preparation time it requires(summoning the ceremonial throne and puting the sealing object on it), but the preparation itself is not really a preparation since it can be done in less than 2seconds, especially when we talk about someone with Minato's teleportation jutsu. With his teleportation jutsu, preparing things before acting becomes a peace of cake. At worse, Minato can summon Gamabunta

You must be registered for see links

like he did even against the Kyubi and use the sealing technique. If needed he can still do

You must be registered for see links

like against Kyubi, by seperating the Itachi from his Susanoo with his space time barrier and seal him(we've seen it's possible thanks to Gaara).

Gamabunta himself has shown powerful suiton techniques even able to withstand wind attacks coming from Shikaku, or also oil jutsus that could restrain movements

Minato can use

You must be registered for see links

like the one

You must be registered for see links

to block Kyubi inside it. Against Itachi, if he uses it, Itachi's fighting perimeter would be more limited and he won't even be able to get thru it unless if Susanoo can destroy it

Minato has not shown the capacity, but it's safe to assume that he can summon Pa and Ma since it's said that the contract with Gamabunta is the contract with all toads and Pa seemed to know Minato really well. Summoning them would help with sage techniques combos(wind, fire, oil especially). Frog song would be especially efficient against Susanoo since it's said that a Susanoo user can't maintain it against vibrations. And the time it happens, Minato can take advantage of this to blitz Itachi, and end the fight. Even if the fight didn't end there, he would surely get the time to put the marking which would make the result of the fight the same.

I also don't forget their frog genjutsu of course.

Genjutsu:

Since i know it would be the most debated part, i decided to leave it at the end xd

Something always overlooked concerning Sharingan genjutsus is that they are not automatic. Genjutsu is a jutsu like another. So to succeed and put someone in a genjutsu, a timing is required. Basically to put someone in a genjutsu, a direct eye contact is needed, but not only that. Eye contact is not all what is needed. The Sharingan genjutsu user must also know when to cast that genjutsu, which means that he must create a perfect timing exactly when the opponent look at his eyes and cast the genjutsu in question. That's basically where Itachi excells. But here is where states when you fight someone like Minato. Like you can see

You must be registered for see links

and like i've just explained, genjutsu needs concentration(you can see Sasuke concentrating to cast the illusion), and Raikage says that it's no match for him. Why does he say that? It's because the occular Sharingan has hard time to follow Raikage's speed. To actually put someone in a genjutsu, you must be able to fix him eye to eye directly from the start, which wasn't possible for Sasuke against the Raikage.

Madara himself needed 5Susanoos, plus a distraction(Raikage distracted by Tsunade) to actually catch Raikage and put him in a genjutsu. That further implies how difficult it is to put someone you can barely fix, not even mentioning follow with a Sharingan genjutsu. In Minato's case it would be even harder since it's practically impossible to capture Minato to begin with. If you try to capture him, the time you take to do so, he can instantly appear somewhere else(maybe even behind you)

In before people start saying that Itachi is more skilled than Madara in genjutsus, just to let you know, Onoki knows how to fight Sharingan genjutsus. It's for that reason that he mentioned not the fact of not

You must be registered for see links

.

Notice that he said that, but he still fight eyes open, which means that the secret in fighting sharingan is not to close your eyes but to constantly have your eyes open but not directly looking into the Sharingan eye. I believe that it's a comon knowledge for experimented ninjas not to look directly into Sharingan eyes since even Chiyo said something similar. Minato also seemed to be a very knowledgeable ninja(knowing about Tobirama Space time techniques, knowing that Madara can't control Kyubi for too long, etc), which means he also knows how to fight by avoiding a direct eye contact.

Like i've said genjutsu is a jutsu like everything else. You need to find a way to cast it and succeed(in Sharingan genjutsu's case is casting it exactly when we both make eye contact). The time Itachi takes to try to fix Minato and put him in a genjutsu, he could receive

You must be registered for see links

(since he won't be protected by Susanoo at that time).

So all in all it's what i could resume concerning this fight, but like i've said i see Minato as the superior combattant even by feats U_U

 

[Owarij]

gamabunta could just pull out his sword in midair to counter.

you need fast reflexes to use ftg. minato teleported away from obitos warping without any knowledge while being warped. once he notices the flames converging near him, he teleports.

it would be like this:

You must be registered for see images

the flames dont hit you the moment they appear. minatos reflexes>Ays.

he avoided eye contact against obito.

Proof he avoided eye contact? please would love to see that
Gamabunta pull out his sword, aim down wards and counter susanno's thrust , though he's falling in a manner that wouldn't make sense for

A was aware of amaterasu before hand, and was making contact with Sasuke. he saw everything.. If you're claiming he isn't going to make eye contact, he WILL not see amaterasu coming , at most he feels the atmosphere change before it appears on him

 

[Owarij]

Bogard, will reply to your post in a sec, doing something atm

 

[TheSages456]

Proof he avoided eye contact? please would love to see that
Gamabunta pull out his sword, aim down wards and counter susanno's thrust , though he's falling in a manner that wouldn't make sense for

A was aware of amaterasu before hand, and was making contact with Sasuke. he saw everything.. If you're claiming he isn't going to make eye contact, he WILL not see amaterasu coming , at most he feels the atmosphere change before it appears on him

show me proof that he looked into obitos eyes

what do you mean? his body weight is still falling on top of susano. he is just pulling his sword out.

i never said Ay didnt know of amaterasu. i was just talking about the bottom right panel which shows the flames converging on Ays body but it doesnt hit him. minatos reflexes and speed>Ays. minato countered obitos warping while being warped. he will do fine against amaterasu. i will continue this later/

 

[Owarij]

Re: Minato Namikaze vs Itachi Uchiha (Logical Debates Only)
Haha so you made it
When you make manga knowledge, am i allowed to count the fact that Minato received all the current knowledge by watching inside Naruto?

Close combat:

Minato would have the advantage because of his superiority in speed and shunshin blitz. Not sure if Itachi could react in time, but admitting he smh can, his only hope would be Susanoo since not only Minato is superior to him in speed but only one marking in close combat would be enough to finish the fight. For all those reasons, close combat is out of question in Itachi's case.


So Itachi would most likely try to use genjutsu or mid-long range attacks. Concerning the mid long range attacks, he his arsenal is most likely composed on katon techniques that even Sakura could dodge, so easily dodgeable by someone with Minato's speed. He can even redirect it to Itachi if he really wanted.

Besides, he has Amaterasu or Susanoo. But we have seen that Raikage with Shunshin alone was able to dodge it. This pic also shows that eventhough Amaterasu is instant, there is a formation time where the flames have to appear before engulfing the target. This time is enough for someone with great speed like Raikage or an instant teleportation jutsu like Minato to dodge it without problems

Susanoo's powerful hand has shown to be easily dodgeable by Kabuto, so that thing is not touching someone as fast as Minato at all. In fact, Itachi has shown no jutsu(MS included) that could work touch Minato besides genjutsu which would be a non-factor(but i would explain it later)

If Itachi uses Magatama, he risks to be killed by his own jutsu since Minato could redirect it as well

Some people always say that Minato can't FTG inside Susanoo, but it's a wrong way of thinking since FTG has shown to have a radius where Minato can decide to freely teleport himself, and the range of the radius could be seen when he uses his space time barrier. Susanoo on the other hand has shown to only cover the user, so there is space where the user can move himself freely, space you can see in the Danzo fight. It's for that reason that Gaara was even able to catch Madara from the inside of it with sand

So basically protecting yourself with Susanoo against FTG is pretty much meaningless. When Minato will throw the kunai when Itachi will protect himself with Susanoo, it could be as if the Susanoo was not even existing since the radius of the FTG allow him to warp himself even at a decent distance of his kunais

If needed, Minato can use the Eight trigrams sealing technique, a technique used to seal giant demonic creatures and could be used to seal multiple opponents at once if needed. The jutsu has shown to be instant, and like i've explained in this thread, it can be used from a decent distance. This could seal Susanoo and his user without problems since it was able to seal half of Kyubi's chakra plus Kushina's and Minato's own chakra without problems.

Only problem of the technique is the little preparation time it requires(summoning the ceremonial throne and puting the sealing object on it), but the preparation itself is not really a preparation since it can be done in less than 2seconds, especially when we talk about someone with Minato's teleportation jutsu. With his teleportation jutsu, preparing things before acting becomes a peace of cake. At worse, Minato can summon Gamabunta to restrain Susanoo like he did even against the Kyubi and use the sealing technique. If needed he can still do the same like against Kyubi, by seperating the Itachi from his Susanoo with his space time barrier and seal him(we've seen it's possible thanks to Gaara).

Gamabunta himself has shown powerful suiton techniques even able to withstand wind attacks coming from Shikaku, or also oil jutsus that could restrain movements

Minato can use barrier techniques like the one he used to block Kyubi inside it. Against Itachi, if he uses it, Itachi's fighting perimeter would be more limited and he won't even be able to get thru it unless if Susanoo can destroy it

Minato has not shown the capacity, but it's safe to assume that he can summon Pa and Ma since it's said that the contract with Gamabunta is the contract with all toads and Pa seemed to know Minato really well. Summoning them would help with sage techniques combos(wind, fire, oil especially). Frog song would be especially efficient against Susanoo since it's said that a Susanoo user can't maintain it against vibrations. And the time it happens, Minato can take advantage of this to blitz Itachi, and end the fight. Even if the fight didn't end there, he would surely get the time to put the marking which would make the result of the fight the same.

I also don't forget their frog genjutsu of course.

Genjutsu:

Since i know it would be the most debated part, i decided to leave it at the end

Something always overlooked concerning Sharingan genjutsus is that they are not automatic. Genjutsu is a jutsu like another. So to succeed and put someone in a genjutsu, a timing is required. Basically to put someone in a genjutsu, a direct eye contact is needed, but not only that. Eye contact is not all what is needed. The Sharingan genjutsu user must also know when to cast that genjutsu, which means that he must create a perfect timing exactly when the opponent look at his eyes and cast the genjutsu in question. That's basically where Itachi excells. But here is where states when you fight someone like Minato. Like you can see on this pic and like i've just explained, genjutsu needs concentration(you can see Sasuke concentrating to cast the illusion), and Raikage says that it's no match for him. Why does he say that? It's because the occular Sharingan has hard time to follow Raikage's speed. To actually put someone in a genjutsu, you must be able to fix him eye to eye directly from the start, which wasn't possible for Sasuke against the Raikage.

Madara himself needed 5Susanoos, plus a distraction(Raikage distracted by Tsunade) to actually catch Raikage and put him in a genjutsu. That further implies how difficult it is to put someone you can barely fix, not even mentioning follow with a Sharingan genjutsu. In Minato's case it would be even harder since it's practically impossible to capture Minato to begin with. If you try to capture him, the time you take to do so, he can instantly appear somewhere else(maybe even behind you)

In before people start saying that Itachi is more skilled than Madara in genjutsus, just to let you know, Onoki knows how to fight Sharingan genjutsus. It's for that reason that he mentioned not the fact of not without looking directly into their eyes.

Notice that he said that, but he still fight eyes open, which means that the secret in fighting sharingan is not to close your eyes but to constantly have your eyes open but not directly looking into the Sharingan eye. I believe that it's a comon knowledge for experimented ninjas not to look directly into Sharingan eyes since even Chiyo said something similar. Minato also seemed to be a very knowledgeable ninja(knowing about Tobirama Space time techniques, knowing that Madara can't control Kyubi for too long, etc), which means he also knows how to fight by avoiding a direct eye contact.

Like i've said genjutsu is a jutsu like everything else. You need to find a way to cast it and succeed(in Sharingan genjutsu's case is casting it exactly when we both make eye contact). The time Itachi takes to try to fix Minato and put him in a genjutsu, he could receive a shunshin blitz(since he won't be protected by Susanoo at that time).

So all in all it's what i could resume concerning this fight, but like i've said i see Minato as the superior combattant even by feats

K, though I'm busy, i'll deal with you genjutsu part of the argument first

to start things off, almost the whole genjtusu argument is flawed

Spoiler

To actually put someone in a genjutsu, you must be able to fix him eye to eye directly from the start, which wasn't possible for Sasuke against the Raikage.

You're stating the obvious... sharingan genjutsu works through eye contact..

eye to eye directly from the start

Once again incorrect, who said the only time you can use genjutsu is from the start? there was MANY occasions in which sasuke could get A in a genjutsu

Eg

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

or

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

In both cases A was - stationary and making eye contact

Your argument is flawed because the entire thing is under the assumption that a ninja fights constantly moving.. that isn't the case.. Not with A or Minato... they are stationary many times in their fight, and it's more than enough time to get them in a genjutsu

brb

I'll reply to the rest of you genjutsu and other in a sec

 

[Edo Odin]

This could honestly go either way. Itachi's Susanoo provides a pretty good counter for Minato's Rasengan and the rest of his physical attacks, and I honestly don't see Minato getting through that. The toad summons would be close to useless since Amaterasu mathes up very well against opponents as large as that, as seen against the Hachibi.

Minato however, also provides an excellent counter for Itachi's techniques, with the "instant" Amaterasu being pretty much useless, as long as Minato has some place to teleport to. Minato was an excellent ninja, with sensory abilities, who would likely not fall into the trap of looking into a Sharingan users eye, pretty much negating Itachi's possibility of putting him in a Genjutsu.

Ultimately, I'd give Minato the edge, since his speed and the FTG provide an excellent counter to most of Itachi's attacks, and since Itachi doesn't have the EMS, he won't be able to withhold the Susanoo for too long, making him vulnerable to Minato's speed blitzing.

Not saying that Minato stomps, the victor will win high diff either way, but ultimately I'd have to give it to Minato, mostly due to the fact that Itachi's most powerful techniques drain so much chakra.

 

[Tartarus]

To be honest, I think they are 50/50 equals but I'd give Minato the edge in this fight but I'll add some ammo for both sides.
For Itachi: Minato's standard strategy is to throw FTG kunai all around the opponent and overwhelm them but that most likely won't work against Itachi due to his shuriken jutsu skills.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

For Minato: In his fight to Obito, he seems to be pretty good at avoiding eye contact against Uchiha. He was able to fight close combat against Tobi, while able to position his head to stay away from Tobi's face.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Strata Uchiha]

I still like the theory that if Minato marks Itachi with his FTG seal, that he'll warp inside of Itachi's Susanoo making him the victor.

You must be registered for see images

^ But I don't see Itachi falling for this so easily. I can picture Minato accidentally marking a Shadow Clone or Crows instead.
That and Itachi has so many more tricks of the trade. "Tsukiyomi, Amateratsu, Izanami, etc."

I'm gonna say......Itachi high difficulty.

 

[Owarij]

o Namikaze vs Itachi Uchiha (Logical Debates Only)
Haha so you made it
When you make manga knowledge, am i allowed to count the fact that Minato received all the current knowledge by watching inside Naruto?

Close combat:

Minato would have the advantage because of his superiority in speed and shunshin blitz. Not sure if Itachi could react in time, but admitting he smh can, his only hope would be Susanoo since not only Minato is superior to him in speed but only one marking in close combat would be enough to finish the fight. For all those reasons, close combat is out of question in Itachi's case.


So Itachi would most likely try to use genjutsu or mid-long range attacks. Concerning the mid long range attacks, he his arsenal is most likely composed on katon techniques that even Sakura could dodge, so easily dodgeable by someone with Minato's speed. He can even redirect it to Itachi if he really wanted.

Besides, he has Amaterasu or Susanoo. But we have seen that Raikage with Shunshin alone was able to dodge it. This pic also shows that eventhough Amaterasu is instant, there is a formation time where the flames have to appear before engulfing the target. This time is enough for someone with great speed like Raikage or an instant teleportation jutsu like Minato to dodge it without problems

Susanoo's powerful hand has shown to be easily dodgeable by Kabuto, so that thing is not touching someone as fast as Minato at all. In fact, Itachi has shown no jutsu(MS included) that could work touch Minato besides genjutsu which would be a non-factor(but i would explain it later)

If Itachi uses Magatama, he risks to be killed by his own jutsu since Minato could redirect it as well

Some people always say that Minato can't FTG inside Susanoo, but it's a wrong way of thinking since FTG has shown to have a radius where Minato can decide to freely teleport himself, and the range of the radius could be seen when he uses his space time barrier. Susanoo on the other hand has shown to only cover the user, so there is space where the user can move himself freely, space you can see in the Danzo fight. It's for that reason that Gaara was even able to catch Madara from the inside of it with sand

So basically protecting yourself with Susanoo against FTG is pretty much meaningless. When Minato will throw the kunai when Itachi will protect himself with Susanoo, it could be as if the Susanoo was not even existing since the radius of the FTG allow him to warp himself even at a decent distance of his kunais

If needed, Minato can use the Eight trigrams sealing technique, a technique used to seal giant demonic creatures and could be used to seal multiple opponents at once if needed. The jutsu has shown to be instant, and like i've explained in this thread, it can be used from a decent distance. This could seal Susanoo and his user without problems since it was able to seal half of Kyubi's chakra plus Kushina's and Minato's own chakra without problems.

Only problem of the technique is the little preparation time it requires(summoning the ceremonial throne and puting the sealing object on it), but the preparation itself is not really a preparation since it can be done in less than 2seconds, especially when we talk about someone with Minato's teleportation jutsu. With his teleportation jutsu, preparing things before acting becomes a peace of cake. At worse, Minato can summon Gamabunta to restrain Susanoo like he did even against the Kyubi and use the sealing technique. If needed he can still do the same like against Kyubi, by seperating the Itachi from his Susanoo with his space time barrier and seal him(we've seen it's possible thanks to Gaara).

Gamabunta himself has shown powerful suiton techniques even able to withstand wind attacks coming from Shikaku, or also oil jutsus that could restrain movements

Minato can use barrier techniques like the one he used to block Kyubi inside it. Against Itachi, if he uses it, Itachi's fighting perimeter would be more limited and he won't even be able to get thru it unless if Susanoo can destroy it

Minato has not shown the capacity, but it's safe to assume that he can summon Pa and Ma since it's said that the contract with Gamabunta is the contract with all toads and Pa seemed to know Minato really well. Summoning them would help with sage techniques combos(wind, fire, oil especially). Frog song would be especially efficient against Susanoo since it's said that a Susanoo user can't maintain it against vibrations. And the time it happens, Minato can take advantage of this to blitz Itachi, and end the fight. Even if the fight didn't end there, he would surely get the time to put the marking which would make the result of the fight the same.

I also don't forget their frog genjutsu of course.

Genjutsu:

Since i know it would be the most debated part, i decided to leave it at the end

Something always overlooked concerning Sharingan genjutsus is that they are not automatic. Genjutsu is a jutsu like another. So to succeed and put someone in a genjutsu, a timing is required. Basically to put someone in a genjutsu, a direct eye contact is needed, but not only that. Eye contact is not all what is needed. The Sharingan genjutsu user must also know when to cast that genjutsu, which means that he must create a perfect timing exactly when the opponent look at his eyes and cast the genjutsu in question. That's basically where Itachi excells. But here is where states when you fight someone like Minato. Like you can see on this pic and like i've just explained, genjutsu needs concentration(you can see Sasuke concentrating to cast the illusion), and Raikage says that it's no match for him. Why does he say that? It's because the occular Sharingan has hard time to follow Raikage's speed. To actually put someone in a genjutsu, you must be able to fix him eye to eye directly from the start, which wasn't possible for Sasuke against the Raikage.

Madara himself needed 5Susanoos, plus a distraction(Raikage distracted by Tsunade) to actually catch Raikage and put him in a genjutsu. That further implies how difficult it is to put someone you can barely fix, not even mentioning follow with a Sharingan genjutsu. In Minato's case it would be even harder since it's practically impossible to capture Minato to begin with. If you try to capture him, the time you take to do so, he can instantly appear somewhere else(maybe even behind you)

In before people start saying that Itachi is more skilled than Madara in genjutsus, just to let you know, Onoki knows how to fight Sharingan genjutsus. It's for that reason that he mentioned not the fact of not without looking directly into their eyes.

Notice that he said that, but he still fight eyes open, which means that the secret in fighting sharingan is not to close your eyes but to constantly have your eyes open but not directly looking into the Sharingan eye. I believe that it's a comon knowledge for experimented ninjas not to look directly into Sharingan eyes since even Chiyo said something similar. Minato also seemed to be a very knowledgeable ninja(knowing about Tobirama Space time techniques, knowing that Madara can't control Kyubi for too long, etc), which means he also knows how to fight by avoiding a direct eye contact.

Like i've said genjutsu is a jutsu like everything else. You need to find a way to cast it and succeed(in Sharingan genjutsu's case is casting it exactly when we both make eye contact). The time Itachi takes to try to fix Minato and put him in a genjutsu, he could receive a shunshin blitz(since he won't be protected by Susanoo at that time).

So all in all it's what i could resume concerning this fight, but like i've said i see Minato as the superior combattant even by feats

Alright, reasonable argument, with logical points here and there but I have a response for most of it..
Firstly, Minato does not know what susanno is, or how strong susanno is for that matter... Like Sasuke, when he first see's it, his first reaction would be to test it's durability...

Sasuke threw a few kunai, nothing
threw kunai's with explosion tags
ran in and with a physical stab with his sword of kusunagi...

Minato will do the same.. If his first attack isn't to throw kunai at it, he will run into it and attempt a rasengan and utterly fail...At any moment that Minato enters close range, and he is a close range fighter, he is wide open to being put into itachi's non eye contact dusk crow genjutsu..... The problem here for Minato is that he very well may not even know he is put into a genjutsu as it can simulate reality perfectly... I have no doubt in my mind that Minato can eventually break this genjutsu, What I do doubt is if he'll live long enough to do so...

As you've stated the best way to fight an Uchiha is to not close your eyes and avoid eye contact..You bring up a shaky argument by stating "experimented" ninjas would know not to do such things.. but you forget that unlikely chiyo and onooki who were enemies of the Uchiha/Konoha...Minato has probably never fought another uchiha other than tobi in his life.... If you're saying intelligence is the factor in not making eye contact..then I'll just have to mention orochimaru... regardless, I'll allow the non eye contact point because it doesn't matter...

Once a genjutsu is cast on an opponent, they must break it by one of a few methods... A surge of chakra big enough to disrupt their chakra flow would be the only method Minato can use in this fight.....The important thing people forget is that you first must realize you're in the genjutsu.... Consider that , the "reaction time" of illusion fights..Deidara was completely oblivious to being in a genjutsu and was about to kill himself .... If itachi doesn't shoe his genjutsu signature , aka black crows with sharingan...Minato, unless having some superior genjutsu insight, wont leave in time....

As you may know, once you're in a genjutsu, you're irl body is either standing still , motionless, or laying on the ground sleeping ...and at any time the caster of the genjutsu can move in for an attack

What i'm stating is similar to this

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Kurenai put itachi in a genjutsu and proceeded to get close to him to slit his throat with a kunai..Unfortunately for kurenai Itachi had a special genjutsu of his own that reverses it on the opponent..
What i'd like you to note is where kurenai was before casting

You must be registered for see links

, and where she was afterwards (infront of itachi)

Do you see where i'm going with this? Kurenai's genjutsu was an obvious one, a paralysis genjutsu, Itachi didnt' have to realize he was in one, he saw it from the begining.. but when A fight perfectly simulates reality..we have a problem... Minato will not be able to realize and break the genjutsu in time

Before this happens

You must be registered for see images

But this time Itachi will not spare Minato's life like he did to Orochimaru..he'll go for a head blow... and with Itachi's shunshin ability,as you've most definitely seen from my thread, coupled with the fact that minato is a close range fighter.. He will definitely move in fast enough to obtain such a feat..


In your argument you argue that his susanno can be restrained by gamabunta, Well first I dont believe Itachi will be utilizing full susanno unless needed alot... if an attack comes he'll activate it in the split second activation time it takes to activate susanno
You also fail to remember that summonings such as Gamabunta are large targets that can easily be amaterasu'd, and they can also be controlled by the sharingan, forcing Minato to fight his own summonings... At that point itachi can easily let gamabunta jump over to him, and seal it with totsuka sword

I disagree completely with Minato being able to use the 8 triagram seal on Itachi, he will not be able to get Itachi or his susanno on the ritual throne, that's insanity...As for ftg Marking goes, Not only won't Itachi allow such a thing to happen, but if it did , like Killer bee, he'd notice it, and only use it to lure Minato in and cast a genjtsu....Itachi should very well know of minato's capabilities in seals.. he knows of Uzumaki kushina and Minato's history... and it's common knowledge that Minato fought the kyuubi and sealed it in naruto uzumaki...Meaning it's a surety that he knows Minato is capable in seals.. and Itachi seems to have dabbled in seals as well... (transcription seal) which is a seal you put on someone once you touch them... If that's a feat itachi can pull off, I don't think he'll underestimate Minato so much as to not be capable of such a thing...

As for the barrier tech, he'll need to either have a kunai or a mark on itachi/near itachi , to redirect the attack over there.. he can't just redirect an attack to anywhere he wants.. that doesn't follow the logic of ftg...
Itachi after missing one katon will realize all elemental jutsu against minato is useless as he will dodge them with ease.. so I have no argument here.. this fight will soely consist of genjuts, amaterasu, tsukyomi and susanno as his weapons...

FTG v2, I will go out and say that Itachi is pretty much the best kunai user in the manga... The 2nd best would be maybe Minato, but minato hasn't shown anywhere near the feats as itachi in the field... Itachi has already shown that he's capable of redirecting pathways of kunai by throwing kunai's/shruiken of his own... When it comes to v1 ftw, it wont be a problem once scattered..

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Raikage A was not only able to breakdown how ftg works, but remembered where each kunai landed and thus the possible spots in which Minato could teleport to...

Itachi will easily be able to simulate this feat, with his sheer intelligence coupled with his sharingan's path prediction and seemingly eidetic memory ability

 

[Guildmage]

In the way I see it, Minato can keep teleporting. While Itachi has Susanoo on. Throwing kunais closer and closer to Itachi. Obviously Itachi will notice this and will start hitting those very same kunais with his Susanoo in order to not let Minato get close.

It hasn' t been shown that Itachi has blaze release in order to move his amaterasu.

The best bet I think Itachi has here, is to decipher a pattern in which Minato is teleporting (In which he is good, due to his analytical skills), get ahead of Minato himself and Lay a Totsuka blade on Minato or cast a finger genjutsu.

Otherwise Itachi will simply run out of chakra and lose.

Imagine this: Minato always keeping Itachi in the middle and Minato teleporting around Itachi.... It is an easy feat for Minato to do due to his speed.... But I wouldn't count Itachi out, because he can figure out a pattern Minato is following in his FTG


What do I mean when I say a pattern?
*Moving to the one that is in the right
*Moving to the one that is in the lef
*In cross
*to the diagonals
*Maybe some shape
*Minato Looking for an opening and maybe Itachi planned that opening ahead of Minato in order to catch him

Actually both are great shinobis and it could go to any of both

The things that in my opinion would make a difference here are:
*Itachi's durability with Susanoo on
*Itachi's intelligence which cannot be doubted of
*Minato strategy and how he analyses for an opening in Susanoo

I would give 50-50 to this two spartans.

 

[shelke]

I believe Itachi takes this mid-difference. The few factors are Sussano, Amatersu, and genjutsu against Minato's FTG, Rasengan, and S/T barrier. Mintao has no way around Sussano, that's for sure. His Rasangan will not harm Sussano, let alone damage it as Naruto's Ultra BB Rasengan couldn't even dent Sussano bones, I can't see Mintao doing any better, so this attack is virtually useless against Itachi.

Sussano's erection is extremely fast, as Itachi was able to put it up before lSasuke's Kirin/ighting hit the ground, so Mintao is not hitting Itachi from the on-set. His FTG Kunais will be destroyed by fire techniques and Amatersu. Itachi can also use Yasaka Magatama to distract Mintao while he tries to put him under genjutsu. It is to be noted here here Itachi doesn't need his eyes to cast a powerful genjutsu, he can just use his finger. Mintao, once caught would be killed instantly with Sussano sword, Magatama, or amatersu.

His summons would be useless against amatersu being bigger targets just like what happened to Hachibi. If he tries to teleport an attack, he will get hit instantly, as his S/T barrier technique requires 5 hand seals and requires for his to stand still and teleport the attack else where. Other than his FTG technique, Mintao is highly unimpressive in my opinion. There isn't anything on him that would/could defeat Itachi.

In order to hit him, he will need to stop teleporting and since he doesn't carry a santa clause bag of FTG kunais he isn't dodging all the attacks. Either he'll just forfeit or would get caught in genjutsu or the aforementioned techniques.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Haha so you made it xd
When you make manga knowledge, am i allowed to count the fact that Minato received all the current knowledge by watching inside Naruto?

Close combat:

Minato would have the advantage because of his

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. Not sure if Itachi could react in time, but admitting he smh can, his only hope would be Susanoo since not only Minato is superior to him in speed but only one marking in close combat would be enough to finish the fight. For all those reasons, close combat is out of question in Itachi's case.


So Itachi would most likely try to use genjutsu or mid-long range attacks. Concerning the mid long range attacks, he his arsenal is most likely composed on katon techniques that even Sakura could dodge, so easily dodgeable by someone with Minato's speed. He can even

You must be registered for see links

to Itachi if he really wanted.

Besides, he has Amaterasu or Susanoo. But we have seen that Raikage with Shunshin alone was able

You must be registered for see links

. This pic also shows that eventhough Amaterasu is instant, there is a formation time where the flames have to appear before engulfing the target. This time is enough for someone with great speed like Raikage or an instant teleportation jutsu like Minato to dodge it without problems

Susanoo's powerful hand has shown to be

You must be registered for see links

by Kabuto, so that thing is not touching someone as fast as Minato at all. In fact, Itachi has shown no jutsu(MS included) that could work touch Minato besides genjutsu which would be a non-factor(but i would explain it later)

If Itachi uses Magatama, he risks to be killed by his own jutsu since Minato

You must be registered for see links

as well

Some people always say that Minato can't FTG inside Susanoo, but it's a wrong way of thinking since FTG has shown to have

You must be registered for see links

where Minato can decide to freely teleport himself, and the range of the radius could be seen when he uses his space time barrier. Susanoo on the other hand has shown to only cover the user, so there is space where the user can move himself freely, space you can see in the

You must be registered for see links

. It's for that reason that Gaara was even able to catch Madara from the inside of it

You must be registered for see links

So basically protecting yourself with Susanoo against FTG is pretty much meaningless. When Minato will throw the kunai when Itachi will protect himself with Susanoo, it could be as if the Susanoo was not even existing since the radius of the FTG allow him to warp himself even at a decent distance of his kunais

If needed, Minato can use the

You must be registered for see links

, a technique used to seal giant demonic creatures and could be used to seal multiple opponents at once if needed. The jutsu has shown to be instant, and like i've explained in

You must be registered for see links

, it can be used from a decent distance. This could seal Susanoo and his user without problems since it was able to seal half of Kyubi's chakra plus Kushina's and Minato's own chakra without problems.

Only problem of the technique is the little preparation time it requires(summoning the ceremonial throne and puting the sealing object on it), but the preparation itself is not really a preparation since it can be done in less than 2seconds, especially when we talk about someone with Minato's teleportation jutsu. With his teleportation jutsu, preparing things before acting becomes a peace of cake. At worse, Minato can summon Gamabunta

You must be registered for see links

like he did even against the Kyubi and use the sealing technique. If needed he can still do

You must be registered for see links

like against Kyubi, by seperating the Itachi from his Susanoo with his space time barrier and seal him(we've seen it's possible thanks to Gaara).

Gamabunta himself has shown powerful suiton techniques even able to withstand wind attacks coming from Shikaku, or also oil jutsus that could restrain movements

Minato can use

You must be registered for see links

like the one

You must be registered for see links

to block Kyubi inside it. Against Itachi, if he uses it, Itachi's fighting perimeter would be more limited and he won't even be able to get thru it unless if Susanoo can destroy it

Minato has not shown the capacity, but it's safe to assume that he can summon Pa and Ma since it's said that the contract with Gamabunta is the contract with all toads and Pa seemed to know Minato really well. Summoning them would help with sage techniques combos(wind, fire, oil especially). Frog song would be especially efficient against Susanoo since it's said that a Susanoo user can't maintain it against vibrations. And the time it happens, Minato can take advantage of this to blitz Itachi, and end the fight. Even if the fight didn't end there, he would surely get the time to put the marking which would make the result of the fight the same.

I also don't forget their frog genjutsu of course.

Genjutsu:

Since i know it would be the most debated part, i decided to leave it at the end xd

Something always overlooked concerning Sharingan genjutsus is that they are not automatic. Genjutsu is a jutsu like another. So to succeed and put someone in a genjutsu, a timing is required. Basically to put someone in a genjutsu, a direct eye contact is needed, but not only that. Eye contact is not all what is needed. The Sharingan genjutsu user must also know when to cast that genjutsu, which means that he must create a perfect timing exactly when the opponent look at his eyes and cast the genjutsu in question. That's basically where Itachi excells. But here is where states when you fight someone like Minato. Like you can see

You must be registered for see links

and like i've just explained, genjutsu needs concentration(you can see Sasuke concentrating to cast the illusion), and Raikage says that it's no match for him. Why does he say that? It's because the occular Sharingan has hard time to follow Raikage's speed. To actually put someone in a genjutsu, you must be able to fix him eye to eye directly from the start, which wasn't possible for Sasuke against the Raikage.

Madara himself needed 5Susanoos, plus a distraction(Raikage distracted by Tsunade) to actually catch Raikage and put him in a genjutsu. That further implies how difficult it is to put someone you can barely fix, not even mentioning follow with a Sharingan genjutsu. In Minato's case it would be even harder since it's practically impossible to capture Minato to begin with. If you try to capture him, the time you take to do so, he can instantly appear somewhere else(maybe even behind you)

In before people start saying that Itachi is more skilled than Madara in genjutsus, just to let you know, Onoki knows how to fight Sharingan genjutsus. It's for that reason that he mentioned not the fact of not

You must be registered for see links

.

Notice that he said that, but he still fight eyes open, which means that the secret in fighting sharingan is not to close your eyes but to constantly have your eyes open but not directly looking into the Sharingan eye. I believe that it's a comon knowledge for experimented ninjas not to look directly into Sharingan eyes since even Chiyo said something similar. Minato also seemed to be a very knowledgeable ninja(knowing about Tobirama Space time techniques, knowing that Madara can't control Kyubi for too long, etc), which means he also knows how to fight by avoiding a direct eye contact.

Like i've said genjutsu is a jutsu like everything else. You need to find a way to cast it and succeed(in Sharingan genjutsu's case is casting it exactly when we both make eye contact). The time Itachi takes to try to fix Minato and put him in a genjutsu, he could receive

You must be registered for see links

(since he won't be protected by Susanoo at that time).

So all in all it's what i could resume concerning this fight, but like i've said i see Minato as the superior combattant even by feats U_U

Basically this, I've bolded the especially important parts. Only thing I'll add is Minato's genjutsu counter.

For Sharingan genjutsu-

Him not seeing Obito's Sharingan when standing at point blank range and also considering the little lesson Jiraiya taught Naruto on focus where he explained that if you place a dot on a surface, your attention goes immediately to the dot, Obito's eye hole is basically to dot that draws your attention in his mask, Minato should have seen the dojutsu yet the Fourth had no recollection of seeing ANYTHING in the eye hole the VERY next chapter means he most likely WAS INTENTIONALLY avoiding Obito's gaze so he knows not to make eye contact.

Also, he knew about the how Uchiha Madara could only control the Nine Tails for a limited amount of time so he know quite a bit about Uchiha and their Sharingan. Also, he fought side by side with many ninjas in the Uchiha clan, so clearly he must have had to work with the Sharingan and seen its powerful genjutsu effects. Since he'll be avoiding eye contact, he will also be avoiding Tsukuyomi.

As for Itachi's non eye contact genjutsu, they are painfully obvious and most likely easily breakable and only two have been shown.

The first one was the one he used against Naruto which required him to form a single hand seals for a while to prep the genjutsu then he pointed his finger at Naruto and Naruto looked at the finger and got caught. The genjutsu was obviously not even meant to fool Naruto but to forcibly subdue him since it was painfully obvious that it wasn't real as it started with every member of Naruto's team collapsing and turning to Itachi. Talk about not subtle. The databook explicitly states that to counter non eye contact genjutsu, the genjutsu release(kai) is used. Now as to whether Minato know how to do that, I can only assume that he does since he trained under Jiraiya who first explained this method to us. Also, it would be safe to assume that a ninja called a once-in-a-generation genius would be able to perform it better than Naruto, who has a 2/5 in genjutsu.

The second one his crow clone used against Naruto, again, painfully obvious since the genjutsu started with crows flying out of Itachi's cloak. Minato would break it. Now the question is if he can break it in time. Well, Kurenai could. Minato has speed with his hands since he could counter weapon attacks from 18 hidden Shadow clones that were coming at kid Kakashi. He did this using only shuriken and also, since he was known for his speed, why would his hands be slow?

Now Amaterasu, the flames don't appear on the opponent outta nowhere, they move linearly. Proof, Raikage dodged it and it moved LINEARLY to the Samurai behind him. Raikage did this at point blank range meaning he waited for the flames to come really close then shifted completely out of its way showing that his speed his greater than that of Amaterasu. Minato has dodged Raikage so he can dodge Amaterasu. You might ask how he can dodge Amaterasu if he's not looking at Itachi's eyes. Well, when the flames are fired they will move towards him and come close to him, they will be completely in his face and he'll see them when they're just about to touch him. Its like saying that if I wasn't looking at your hands and you threw a bottle at me, that I won't see it coming. When its right up in my face just as its about to hit me, I'll see it.

Susanoo limits Itachi's movement which is what stopped him from dodging Kabuto's Inorganic Reincarnation which impaled him with many spikes(and he was just using partial Susanoo xd and this was observed by Kabuto who has never seen/fought Susanoo before so there's no doubt that Minato can deduce this on his own). This means using Susanoo in any form makes him unable to move freely. Remember that the only requirement for Minato to seal the Kyubi was for Kushina to hold it still with chains. Itachi is basically restricting himself so Minato needs only summon the sealing throne and summon a small toad on it then perform the seal, sealing Itachi with Susanoo and all. Minato getting the chance to do this is no problem. The throne summoning requires no seals and neither does the summoning of toad(since he merely smeared his blood on his hand and pointed it at thin air to summon Gerotora in order to give the toad the key to Naruto's seal) and the sealing itself has no seals as the databook didn't mention any(First Databook) and none were shown when Minato sealed Kurama inside Naruto. So its basically tap your hand on the ground to make the throne appear instantly then tap your hand on the throne to make a toad appear instantly and activate the seal(possibly with NO hand seals) and Itachi if clad in Susanoo being too slow to physically stop him and Minato can have Bunta bombard attack Itachi with continously water bullets to keep him busy while Minato does all this. Any attack Itachi attempts will simply clash with the water bullets instead of going to Minato or Bunta. Also, the seal has range since Minato intended to seal the beast from such at distance that the fox had to stretch the full length of his arm to reach where baby Naruto was placed[/B] and we both know Kurama has a reall long arm. So Minato can accomplish this from a good distance away.


To defeat Susanoo, much effore might not be required. It is a large beast but can be evaded as shown by SM Kabuto and we both know FTG is faster than SM Kabuto. Bogard has already explained the range factor that will allow Minato teleport into Susanoo and Itachi, restricted by the walls of his own defense will be at close range and we both know Minato favors teleporting behind an opponent(from where no genjutsu can be cast) and that would be the end of it all. Also, remember that the larger forms of Susanoo won't allow for Amaterasu to be shot since the bone, skin and armor will get in the way and the smaller ones have openings in the ribs which a kunai can just fly through and lead to Itachi's total loss.

Minato can clash his A Rank Rasengan with Itachi's fireball tech, Naruto showed this against Sasuke's fireball when they fought on the hospital roof in part 1. It can also be assumed that Minato can clash Rasengan with any of Itachi's jutsu(water dragon, waterfall, Itachi's face xd)

Also, Minato, after teleporting Kurama out of Konoha said, 'I've got to put up a barrier' meaning he had barrier techniques in his arsenal that could restrain Kurama long enough for him to seal the fox with both the Reaper Death Seal and the Eight Trigrams Seal. He didn't get to show it since Kushina performed hers instead.

Minato also knows of Pa and Ma and they know him and while it can't be proved that he can summon them, it is possible that he summons a small toad, marks it with FTG, dispels the toad then teleported to the toad which will be iin Myoboku, take Ma and Pa and teleport back(kind of a cheat to the whole long process of summoning them.)

 

[-Logic-]

Interesting match-up.

You must be registered for see images

Both sides have arguably equal intelligence, or slightly lower, or slightly higher, so the chances of 'x' or 'y' party being tricked or fooled is debatable, but in my opinion rather low.

When it comes to said party's arsenal, Itachi clearly has a much wider spectrum of techniques at his disposal; Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu, Fuinjutsu and Shurikenjutsu (he is the most proficient in the series with Shurikens). Itachi also has more elements than Minato: he has 2 while Minato, presumably, has none.

When it comes to speed, unfortunately, for me xd, Minato is clearly superior. However, Itachi's handseal speed is unmatched and even Kakashi's Sharingan could not follow it, nor could Sasuke, even with his Sharingan, pick up on the fact that Itachi made a handseal for a Kage Bunshin during their fight, despite having proficient mastery over his Dōjutsu. Keep in mind this was during a heated Shuriken battle; further emphasizing Itachi's prowess in both handseals, and Shurikenjutsu.

What's more, is that Itachi wields the Mangekyō Sharingan. With these, he has three powerful techniques. Two of which, Minato has no ideal counter for. For Tsukuyomi, he can avoid eye contact, but without knowledge Tsukuyomi completely obliterates him, if he doesn't pay attention, Amaterasu, or the Totsuka No Tsurugi will surely take him out, not to mention finger Genjutsu will also troll him. The other technique Minato will have trouble countering is Susano'o; esp. with the Yata Mirror. Minato will struggle to break it's ultimate defence; as a Rasengan is not enough. However, the other Mangekyō Sharingan technique Minato is capable of avoiding is Amaterasu, as his reaction time and FTG is more than sufficient means for doing so.

Taijutsu wise, Itachi and Minato or more so evenly matched. Despite the fact that Minato doesn't have an actual rating, I think he has good or very good Taijutsu skills since his reaction time gives him a ridiculous advantage. However, Itachi can be dangerous with his Taijutsu because he can use Genjutsu while in the midst of a battle, if Tsukuyomi is used, then Minato's done for.

All in all, they're pretty closely matched.

However...I believe Itachi can best Minato. The main reason I think Itachi can defeat Minato is due to his wide spectrum of techniques, ultimately either the Totsuka or Tsukuyomi. Itachi having the highest stats in the databook is a testament to his power. He has sufficient intelligence to figure out how FTG works, as his analytical skills have proven on more than several occasions to be far above the majority. With his wide spectrum of techniques at his disposal, Itachi can take the crown. Minato can also win; if he can out-last Itachi, he can boast a victory over the Solo King. However, Itachi, as an unorthodox pacifist, when getting into a battle, likes to finish it quick. Not too long after Itachi's bout with Kakashi did Itachi resort to Tsukuyomi. It's highly possible Itachi will realize that Minato is a powerful opponent and will need to take him out quickly, thus, resort to Tsukuyomi and finish the battle. By the way guys, please don't sleep on the fact that Itachi's Shurikenjutsu is the best in the series...you really think he'll let Minato's FTG Kunai get close to him? Nah.

Note: I assume you're referring to a healthy or prime Itachi.

In conclusion, the match-up is incredibly tough...but with Itachi's prodigious intelligence, strong intuition, other-worldly experience and his celestial Douryoku, he can...solo.

You must be registered for see images

Furthermore, with the conditions you've given it's likely Itachi will start off with some form of Genjutsu, thus giving him an instantaneous advantage.

Edit: I hope those reading this know that Minato has no possible way, once caught inside Tsukuyomi, can escape. If you think the partner method works against Tsukuyomi, my god, please, get off this thread. Hot dayum, people are potentially using SM in their arguments? I'd hope not.

​

​

 

[Owarij]

Susanoo limits Itachi's movement which is what stopped him from dodging Kabuto's Inorganic Reincarnation which impaled him with many spikes(and he was just using partial Susanoo and this was observed by Kabuto who has never seen/fought Susanoo before so there's no doubt that Minato can deduce this on his own).

Doing something atm, will reply to you later , I just skimmed through but

You must be registered for see images

Look closely, Itachi used his suanno and protected Sasuke...Itachi was the one that reacted fast enough to dodge the attack, Sasuke would have died.. Itachi knows he has edo tensei regenerative properties and thus didn't care..

anyways, will reply in a bit

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Doing something atm, will reply to you later , I just skimmed through but

You must be registered for see images

Look closely, Itachi used his suanno and protected Sasuke...Itachi was the one that reacted fast enough to dodge the attack, Sasuke would have died.. Itachi knows he has edo tensei regenerative properties and thus didn't care..

anyways, will reply in a bit

Things garnered from that manga page

Muki Tensei is fast enough that Sasuke didn't notice in time to activate his own Susanoo. Itachi, being faster, did and protected his younger brother.

By protecting his younger brother with Susanoo, he was too slow to do anything for himself. This is Kabuto's obervation.

Now if the actual act of protecting with Susanoo is what caused the problem. Protecting someone in general doesn't physically reduce one's speed. Minato protected Naruto from Obito's kunai, displaying great speed, not being slowed. Naruto protected Kakashi from Obito's shuriken a few chaps ago, displaying speed. Protecting an individual is usually a credit to one's speed. However Kabuto said using Susanoo to protect Sasuke made ITACHI HIMSELF slower. Meaning the use of Susanoo limits movement. This also agrees with the fact that we've never seen anybody run with Susanoo activated. Madara who was slicing and dicing the entire fourth division remained in one place when he started using his Susanoo. Sasuke remained in one place throughout his entire fight with Danzo. It really does fit that Susanoo limits mobility.

 

[Edo Odin]

Interesting match-up.

You must be registered for see images

Both sides have arguably equal intelligence, or slightly lower, or slightly higher, so the chances of 'x' or 'y' party being tricked or fooled is debatable, but in my opinion rather low.

When it comes to said party's arsenal, Itachi clearly has a much wider spectrum of techniques at his disposal; Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu, Fuinjutsu and Shurikenjutsu (he is the most proficient in the series with Shurikens). Itachi also has more elements than Minato: he has 2 while Minato, presumably, has none.

When it comes to speed, unfortunately, for me xd, Minato is clearly superior. However, Itachi's handseal speed is unmatched and even Kakashi's Sharingan could not follow it, nor could Sasuke, even with his Sharingan, pick up on the fact that Itachi made a handseal for a Kage Bunshin during their fight, despite having proficient mastery over his Dōjutsu. Keep in mind this was during a heated Shuriken battle; further emphasizing Itachi's prowess in both handseals, and Shurikenjutsu.

What's more, is that Itachi wields the Mangekyō Sharingan. With these, he has three powerful techniques. Two of which, Minato has no ideal counter for. For Tsukuyomi, he can avoid eye contact, but without knowledge Tsukuyomi completely obliterates him, if he doesn't pay attention, Amaterasu, or the Totsuka No Tsurugi will surely take him out, not to mention finger Genjutsu will also troll him. The other technique Minato will have trouble countering is Susano'o; esp. with the Yata Mirror. Minato will struggle to break it's ultimate defence; as a Rasengan is not enough. However, the other Mangekyō Sharingan technique Minato is capable of avoiding is Amaterasu, as his reaction time and FTG is more than sufficient means for doing so.

Taijutsu wise, Itachi and Minato or more so evenly matched. Despite the fact that Minato doesn't have an actual rating, I think he has good or very good Taijutsu skills since his reaction time gives him a ridiculous advantage. However, Itachi can be dangerous with his Taijutsu because he can use Genjutsu while in the midst of a battle, if Tsukuyomi is used, then Minato's done for.

All in all, they're pretty closely matched.

However...I believe Itachi can best Minato. The main reason I think Itachi can defeat Minato is due to his wide spectrum of techniques, ultimately either the Totsuka or Tsukuyomi. Itachi having the highest stats in the databook is a testament to his power. He has sufficient intelligence to figure out how FTG works, as his analytical skills have proven on more than several occasions to be far above the majority. With his wide spectrum of techniques at his disposal, Itachi can take the crown. Minato can also win; if he can out-last Itachi, he can boast a victory over the Solo King. However, Itachi, as an unorthodox pacifist, when getting into a battle, likes to finish it quick. Not too long after Itachi's bout with Kakashi did Itachi resort to Tsukuyomi. It's highly possible Itachi will realize that Minato is a powerful opponent and will need to take him out quickly, thus, resort to Tsukuyomi and finish the battle. By the way guys, please don't sleep on the fact that Itachi's Shurikenjutsu is the best in the series...you really think he'll let Minato's FTG Kunai get close to him? Nah.

Note: I assume you're referring to a healthy or prime Itachi.

In conclusion, the match-up is incredibly tough...but with Itachi's prodigious intelligence, strong intuition, other-worldly experience and his celestial Douryoku, he can...solo.

You must be registered for see images

Furthermore, with the conditions you've given it's likely Itachi will start off with some form of Genjutsu, thus giving him an instantaneous advantage.

Edit: I hope those reading this know that Minato has no possible way, once caught inside Tsukuyomi, can escape. If you think the partner method works against Tsukuyomi, my god, please, get off this thread. Hot dayum, people are potentially using SM in their arguments? I'd hope not.

​

​

Nicely put, but I can't say that I agree with Minato getting caught in Tsukuyomi or being hit by the Totsuka.

Even if he has no knowledge of Itachi himself, he does however, being the Hokage, have enough about the Uchiha to know that he shouldn't look directly into their eyes, since the clan is famous for their Genjutsu capabilities. I don't know how he'd do in facing Itachi while avoiding eye contact, but I highly doubt he'd make the mistake of looking into an Uchiha's eyes

And the Totsuka may be an OP technique, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a sword, and so far, we've never seen Minato get hit by an attack (except for when he saved Naruto from the Kyuubi's blow) His reaction speed is high enough for him to be able to avoid the Totsuka blade, assuming that he has a Kunai/tag somewhere nearby that he can teleport to. His reaction speed was great enough for him to dodge A's punch, I don't think he'll get hit by the Totsuka.

However, I won't even try to deny the fact that if he gets hit by either one, there's no way for him to counter it xd

EDIT: I should add that since Minato likely doesn't have any knowledge on Itachi, he won't know that he's an Uchiha, so him landing in the Tsukuyomi might be possible. However, if we include the knowledge Minato gained while watching through Naruto, this won't be a factor :y

 

[-Logic-]

Nicely put, but I can't say that I agree with Minato getting caught in Tsukuyomi or being hit by the Totsuka.

Even if he has no knowledge of Itachi himself, he does however, being the Hokage, have enough about the Uchiha to know that he shouldn't look directly into their eyes, since the clan is famous for their Genjutsu capabilities. I don't know how he'd do in facing Itachi while avoiding eye contact, but I highly doubt he'd make the mistake of looking into an Uchiha's eyes

And the Totsuka may be an OP technique, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a sword, and so far, we've never seen Minato get hit by an attack (except for when he saved Naruto from the Kyuubi's blow) His reaction speed is high enough for him to be able to avoid the Totsuka blade, assuming that he has a Kunai/tag somewhere nearby that he can teleport to. His reaction speed was great enough for him to dodge A's punch, I don't think he'll get hit by the Totsuka.

However, I won't even try to deny the fact that if he gets hit by either one, there's no way for him to counter it xd

EDIT: I should add that since Minato likely doesn't have any knowledge on Itachi, he won't know that he's an Uchiha, so him landing in the Tsukuyomi might be possible. However, if we include the knowledge Minato gained while watching through Naruto, this won't be a factor :y

Sometimes, knowledge of not looking into somebody's eyes is not enough. Even if Minato possesses this knowledge, which he probably does; it means nothing. Orochimaru knew about the Uchiha's prowess in Genjutsu yet he foolishly looked into Itachi's celestial eyes. The Fourth Raikage knew about Madara's Genjutsu, hell, Ōnoki told him to avoid eye contact, yet, Madara was still able to make eye contact with him. What's more, is Itachi can induce Genjutsu without direct eye-contact; finger Genjutsu, and I think via his crows. Thus, Itachi holds another advantage, fighting without looking directly in the eyes is difficult, and has been done only by a few - Gai and some others.

I agree that Minato is capable of dodging Totsuka - no arguments here. But if Itachi traps Minato in a Genjutsu at the beginning, keeping in mind that some of Itachi's Genjutsu can replicate reality perfectly, to the extent that Naruto or people like Kirābī could not tell they were in the Genjutsu for long, shows that if Itachi traps Minato in Genjutsu, he can easily Shunshin to Minato and finish him off. He could even seal him with the Totsuka in practically an instant, if required.

In regards to your comments about Minato figuring out if Itachi is an Uchiha - he most certainly will. Itachi wields a Sharingan, thus, Minato will know. But I'm sure that Minato has absolutely no knowledge of the Mangekyō Sharingan, therein lies another advantage leaning humbly towards Itachi.

 

[Bogard]

Nice arguments on your side as well

Alright, reasonable argument, with logical points here and there but I have a response for most of it..
Firstly, Minato does not know what susanno is, or how strong susanno is for that matter... Like Sasuke, when he first see's it, his first reaction would be to test it's durability...

Minato is not Sasuke. If you want to compare Minato to someone he is more like Itachi or Kakashi in his approach in battle. Sasuke always like to attack the opponent from the get go and it's during the battle that he generally comes out with some plans, but Minato act differently. He analyse the opponent, try to find a weakness before attacking and giving a decisiv blow. Minato like i've said is more like Kakashi and like you have seen, when Kakashi saw Sasuke's Susanoo, he didn't rush directly, not at all. He was still acting calmly.

Minato has shown to be able to find the weakness of a jutsu just by seeing it once(he saw the weakness of chidori directly), so i have no doubt in my mind that his observation skills will allow him to find Susanoo's weakness. He may try to throw kunais like you say, but not in order to test Susanoo's durability, but to analyse Susanoo and try to notice some weaknesses. For that same reason, i don't believe Minato will try rasengan. I believe Minato is intelligent enough to notice that a normal rasengan won't be powerful enough to destroy it just by observing it. Like i've said, i see more Minato analysing the jutsu(Susanoo) before attacking exactly like how he analysed Obito's kamui before attacking by finding his way to strike.

If he does analyse(like he will most likely do), he would probably notice that the inside of Susanoo is open like Gaara noticed, and will try to take advantage of it with the radius of FTG. He doesn't need to use FTG lv1 by marking Susanoo for that. His FTG lv2 could do the job. When Itachi is inside Susanoo, he is even described as being slower, so he would even have greater difficulties than usual to react to Minato's speed(or FTG)

At any moment that Minato enters close range, and he is a close range fighter, he is wide open to being put into itachi's non eye contact dusk crow genjutsu.....

Like i've said, contrary to the popular belief, i believe dusk crow genjutsu does require eye contact, but the eye contact is with the crow's eye instead of Itachi's eye.

The problem here for Minato is that he very well may not even know he is put into a genjutsu as it can simulate reality perfectly... I have no doubt in my mind that Minato can eventually break this genjutsu, What I do doubt is if he'll live long enough to do so...

Creating reality with genjutsu is not that a great feat. Even Kakashi's D-rank Demonic illusion could create reality in Sakura's mind, albeit showing her fear she hide deep in her heart. Isumo and Kotetsu were also able to create perfect reality, albeit changing the number of the classroom where genins should have registered their name. Madara can also create perfect reality with his genjutsu, but even A was still able to notice he was in a genjutsu. Creating reality is not the real problem. The real problem is the capacity of noticing your inside the genjutsu in question and break it in time. I'm pretty sure that someone as observant and analytic like Minato could directly notice such things if he is smh caught in, but i must admit that there is no proof that he could break it, but the fact that Danzo was able to break Sasuke's tsukuyomi makes me believe it's greatly possible for high level opponents. Even Orochimaru tried to break the genjutsu like you've demonstrated it to me a time, but Itachi intervened quickly. So the question now would be to know if he can liberate himself in time

Minato has probably never fought another uchiha other than tobi in his life.... If you're saying intelligence is the factor in not making eye contact..then I'll just have to mention orochimaru... regardless, I'll allow the non eye contact point because it doesn't matter...

Where is it stated that Minato never fought another uchiha besides Tobi? He was the main factor in a war where there were multiple Uchihas i believe. He did fight alongside with Uchihas at that moment. Furthermore, the simple fact that he knows that Madara can't control Kyubi for too long shows he has great knowledge concerning Sharingan techniques including even Uchiha's ancestor techniques.

Once a genjutsu is cast on an opponent, they must break it by one of a few methods... A surge of chakra big enough to disrupt their chakra flow would be the only method Minato can use in this fight.....The important thing people forget is that you first must realize you're in the genjutsu.... Consider that , the "reaction time" of illusion fights..Deidara was completely oblivious to being in a genjutsu and was about to kill himself ....

Deidara was probably 10yo if not less when he met Itachi. He probably never encountered a Sharingan user in his life before. The fact that he said he had never met a Byakugan user when he saw Neji proves that he was simply unexperimented with dojutsu techniques at that moment. With greater experience, you can try to find your way to fight against them, exactly like how he did by training his eye to detect them

Do you see where i'm going with this? Kurenai's genjutsu was an obvious one, a paralysis genjutsu, Itachi didnt' have to realize he was in one, he saw it from the begining.. but when A fight perfectly simulates reality..we have a problem... Minato will not be able to realize and break the genjutsu in time

But you forget that Kurenai was still able to notice and break the genjutsu by bleeding herself

In your argument you argue that his susanno can be restrained by gamabunta, Well first I dont believe Itachi will be utilizing full susanno unless needed alot...

Well if he doesn't activate full Susanoo, then he would be crushed by Food Cart Destroyer. He needs full armour Susanoo to survive this attack and eventhen, it's not even sure when we compare their size

You also fail to remember that summonings such as Gamabunta are large targets that can easily be amaterasu'd, and they can also be controlled by the sharingan, forcing Minato to fight his own summonings... At that point itachi can easily let gamabunta jump over to him, and seal it with totsuka sword

Itachi still has yet to find the opportunity to fix them eye to eye and put them in a genjutsu. If Minato summons Gamabunta above him, he would be trying his best to survive more than really trying to control it, with Gamabunta being above him and almost crushing him. Furthermore what to fail to realise is that the totsuka sealing method takes time, and it's for that reason that Itachi mustn't use it at all. He needs Susanoo full armoured to use totsuka, and the time it seals Gamabunta, it gives a huge opportunity for Minato to close the distance and finish him especially since the inside of this Susanoo is even greater, so the FTG blitz would happen even more easily, not even mentioning the fact that Itachi is slower in this case

I disagree completely with Minato being able to use the 8 triagram seal on Itachi, he will not be able to get Itachi or his susanno on the ritual throne, that's insanity...

Where is it said he needs to get Itachi or his Susanoo on the ritual throne? He doesn't need that at all. All he needs is a sealing target. Itachi can be everywhere he wants, it changes nothing. The jutsu range is decent enough. Only the preparation of the jutsu takes time like i've said. The jutsu itself is instant and can be use from a decent distance

As for ftg Marking goes, Not only won't Itachi allow such a thing to happen, but if it did , like Killer bee, he'd notice it, and only use it to lure Minato in and cast a genjtsu....

It's easy to be able to notice and react against something when your an outsider. Bee was basically just siting there and watching the fight in order to help his brother if needed. He did nothing else. In an actual fight, one vs one, i would like to see how the opponent will even get the time to sit there, notice things and analyse them and take his time to react. So no, Itachi won't even have time to notice such things especially if he gets pressure all the time by Minato. It's what even Obito with full knowledge noticed nothing until it was too late

As for the barrier tech, he'll need to either have a kunai or a mark on itachi/near itachi , to redirect the attack over there.. he can't just redirect an attack to anywhere he wants.. that doesn't follow the logic of ftg...

He mentioned the fact that he could chose a safe place where to redirect Kyubi's TBB implying that he is able to localise safe places and redirect them there. If he really redirected it on his kunais, how would he know that the place where his kunais are were safe? Did he put a kunai somewhere no one can walk around? Especially when we talk about the radius of an attack that can destroy the range of a village with ease.

FTG v2, I will go out and say that Itachi is pretty much the best kunai user in the manga... The 2nd best would be maybe Minato, but minato hasn't shown anywhere near the feats as itachi in the field... Itachi has already shown that he's capable of redirecting pathways of kunai by throwing kunai's/shruiken of his own... When it comes to v1 ftw, it wont be a problem once scattered..

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

True that Itachi has displayed incredible feats in this category, but Minato with less screentime has also shown an incredible feat as well. Since he was able to counter kunais launched by 18clones from different directly who were aimed at kid kakashi with basic shurikens and with fierceful precision. Also remember the fact the each shuriken, each rock or other object that Minato could throw at Itachi could contain a jutsu shiki, so it could clearly surprise Itachi who won't notice it in time exactly like when he didn't notice the rigged Shuriken Sasuke thrown at him

Raikage A was not only able to breakdown how ftg works, but remembered where each kunai landed and thus the possible spots in which Minato could teleport to...

Well it's not as if what he said was that extraordinary. He basically said what we already knew, which is the fact that Minato can teleport on his kunais. I don't even know the relevance of what he said since he must have known it from the start by noticing the yellow paper on kunais. Even a fodder noticed it. But the problem is not to know how a jutsu works, but to counter it

Itachi will easily be able to simulate this feat, with his sheer intelligence coupled with his sharingan's path prediction and seemingly eidetic memory ability

Problem is that in this type of situation, the sharingan is not that different from normal eyes, since sharingan or not it can't trace teleportations jutsu(Obito is a good example for that)