Minato, Jman, Kakashi and the Third Hokage
- Thread starter blazekev90
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blazekev90
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must of them dont accept it, which causes built up anger. Naruto did too, but he was able to face it by fighting against it at the waterfall.
blazekev90
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the fact that someone who barely knew them could easily influence them and not their teachers who have been there from the start says a lot.
I know right?
They're all little bitches. I understand them being angry at the people responsible for the deaths of their loved ones, but WHY their mentors, who tried so hard to help them and guide them? It makes no sense! Not even a shred of gratitude or mercy. Ungrateful little pricks. Fine, get your revenge, but surely, you should remember the man who helped you learn the ninjutsu you are using to achieve your revenge and at least give him a merciful defeat/death if he is an obstacle/in the way of your revenge. Seriously, the intense hate Orochimaru, Nagato, Tobi and Sasuke have for their teachers actually makes no sense and doesn't really follow in terms of character and logic. Like, WTAF. Well, Nagato is a bit of an exception.
It would be TOOOO wierd, I repeat TOOOOO WIERD! if Naruto managed to change Orochimaru...
Kakashi, imo, has been the most effective pawn sensei in Madara's plan. Kakashi has always been very distant with the group, whereas Hiruzen actively gives advice, Jiraiya gave very intensive focused training and mentoring but it was for too short a time, and with Minato, whereas he would and should be the worst (I mean, he practically abandoned his group to fend for themselves during missions and the war, which led to Obito's death in the first place), Minato's influence and significance in his team didn't appear as wide-scoping as Kakashi's due to how much detailed focus we've seen on Team 7. Kakashi had a lot of time to do a lot with both Naruto and Sasuke, but rather spent most of his time training Sasuke and giving him the 1-off advice about his revenge, which wasn't very stressed or deep-reaching like Hiruzen's sort of advice was. When he started to really focus on the Sasuke issue, it was too late, cos the Sound 4 came and took him away to Orochimaru. Later in Shippuden though, Kakashi seemed to get better because he became much more of involved with Naruto, in terms of being a mentor. Sakura has had the least personal/emotional mentoring, which probably explains why she's so all over the place right now lol.
Kakashi, imo, has been the most effective pawn sensei in Madara's plan. Kakashi has always been very distant with the group, whereas Hiruzen actively gives advice, Jiraiya gave very intensive focused training and mentoring but it was for too short a time, and with Minato, whereas he would and should be the worst (I mean, he practically abandoned his group to fend for themselves during missions and the war, which led to Obito's death in the first place), Minato's influence and significance in his team didn't appear as wide-scoping as Kakashi's due to how much detailed focus we've seen on Team 7. Kakashi had a lot of time to do a lot with both Naruto and Sasuke, but rather spent most of his time training Sasuke and giving him the 1-off advice about his revenge, which wasn't very stressed or deep-reaching like Hiruzen's sort of advice was. When he started to really focus on the Sasuke issue, it was too late, cos the Sound 4 came and took him away to Orochimaru. Later in Shippuden though, Kakashi seemed to get better because he became much more of involved with Naruto, in terms of being a mentor. Sakura has had the least personal/emotional mentoring, which probably explains why she's so all over the place right now lol.
blazekev90
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good post, you made very good points and I agree!! They all differed on how they trained their students and intereacted differently, it's just weird how all have been praised, yet their closest students failed to connect with them
Shisui Namikaze
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I agree and out of all the reasons to turn to the dark side I say obitos is the best. I mean look at what happened to him all in within what a year or 2? He loses half his body. He gives his sharingan to his rival then witness his rival and friend kill the girl he was in love with. That can be hard for a 13 year old boy or however old he was.
blazekev90
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never really looked at it like that, that would be me mad as hell too when you put it like that. lol
Also, i cant blame Sasuke for his hate
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Shisui Namikaze
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Yeah but what I don't like about sasuke is that he just wants to kill. His reason to be mad is good but him killin danzo should have been enough. But now he wants to kill innocent people. While Tobi just wants a dream land with all good lol.
Me too. I have a long-lasting hope that Sasuke is/was trolling when he told Tobi "I want to get revenge and wipe out everyone in Konoha" because in that chapter I was just like "Please tell me you're joking, Sasuke. Please tell me you can't be that stupid to be SO easily used by Tobi after what he just said about everything Itachi did for YOU. Please!" Lol. Killing Danzo, the Elders, fine... but wipe out the entire village/country???
Oh, and also, I think Orochimaru, Nagato, Tobi and Sasuke should be contrasted and compared to Sasori, who suffered in a similar way to those four, but still managed to show some level of mercy to his grandmother who was his parent and mentor.
blazekev90
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i use to think that too, but this made me think otherwise.
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he hate is beyond just random killing
No if Nagato could show remorse for Jiraya, Naruto would had been caught, and the infinite tsukyomi had been shadowing the world. Besides Jiraya trains him for 3 years (7-10 years old I assume). He was just a kid - yet to experience the true world of shinobi. Jiraya had to let him experience this on his own, so that Nagato would come up with his own answer. The same goes for Naruto. He made them experience the same thing, and thus they ended up with different answers, but in the end united. Had he shown remorse for Jiraya that had not been real, and Jiraya had failed. Nagato came to his own solution and thus to do that he had to take Jirayas life.
Ame no kage
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Konoha, where legends are made, and sadly where the most bad ass vilens are from or their teachers lol
blazekev90
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he didnt come p with his own solutionm to went with exactly what was told to him. The same can be said for Konan, they have only had each other and one other perosn in their life and that was Jman, no matter how long that was. The story that Jman craved changed as things didnt go as planned, just like when Minato was once his the savior he concluded. This really has nothing to do with it in the end
blazekev90
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blazekev90
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Piratefish
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Interesting comparisons and analysis of their respective relationships. Out of all of these, though, Jiraiya seems to be the one who is least to blame for his student's failings.
It didn't happen under his direct supervision, for one.
blazekev90
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thanks, i see where you're coming from. He didn't have a direct role, but he influenced Nagato's perspective of the ninja world which he took on