Kamui's weakness and Naruto and Sasuke vs MS Obito and Kakashi ( Individually )

[Takos]

Lol at people who think Kakashi can teleport gedo's head..

Lol at people who haven't noticed he used a Kamui big enough to do so.

It depends on the Susanoo in question i think. If it's Itachi's or Sasuke's pre-PS Susanoo, i believe Kakashi could warp it since it's stated to be able to warp 1/3 of Hachibi who is roughly 100m, which means Kakashi's normal kamui can warp something like 33,33m. Itachi's or Sasuke's pre-PS Susanoo is roughly 7m, so he should easily be able to warp it

Plus there is no scenario in which he would need to warp the whole Susanoo. It's transparent, so he just needs to kamui the user.

 

[Bogard]

I said it's Kakashi Kamui weakness cause the thread is about him. We've see Obito warp many people without collapsing like Kakashi, so Obito doesn't have that problem. Can't warp Susano'o. Speedy as in faster than the Sharingan can see so let's use someone with A's speed.

It depends on the Susanoo in question i think. If it's Itachi's or Sasuke's pre-PS Susanoo, i believe Kakashi could warp it since it's stated to be able to warp 1/3 of Hachibi who is roughly 100m, which means Kakashi's normal kamui can warp something like 33,33m. Itachi's or Sasuke's pre-PS Susanoo is roughly 7m, so he should easily be able to warp it

Lol at people who think Kakashi can teleport gedo's head..

You mean like he already almost did in the manga? Lol at the Kamui downplayers

 

[Champ]

It depends on the Susanoo in question i think. If it's Itachi's or Sasuke's pre-PS Susanoo, i believe Kakashi could warp it since it's stated to be able to warp 1/3 of Hachibi who is roughly 100m, which means Kakashi's normal kamui can warp something like 33,33m. Itachi's or Sasuke's pre-PS Susanoo is roughly 7m, so he should easily be able to warp it

Ribcage best I can see him warping since it's small.

 

[Bogard]

Ribcage best I can see him warping since it's small.

Gedo Mazo's head alone is bigger than Itachi's complete Susanoo. I know you don't like Kakashi, but c'mon :|

 

[The Sach]

Lol at people who haven't noticed he used a Kamui big enough to do so.



Plus there is no scenario in which he would need to warp the whole Susanoo. It's transparent, so he just needs to kamui the user.

He had kyuubi chakra and he could have been long dead, if he really Kamui'd the entire head of gado.

You mean like he already almost did in the manga? Lol at the Kamui downplayers

He tried to do it due to kyuubi chakra we all know it.

 

[Takos]

He had kyuubi chakra and he could have been long dead, if he really Kamui'd the entire head of gado.

He did it due to kyuubi chakra we all know it.

Nope, he only received Kyuubi's chakra after Obito's identity was revealed.
The inside of Kurama's cloak argument is baseless last resort of folk who don't want to give Kakashi credit where credit is due, and it was already demolished many times.

 

[Bogard]

He tried to do it due to kyuubi chakra we all know it.

He received Kyubi's chakra only later in the fight, but you're a Kamui downplayer so i guess you slipped through the whole fight on purpose

 

[Champ]

Gedo Mazo's head alone is bigger than Itachi's complete Susanoo. I know you don't like Kakashi, but c'mon :|

Hate has nothing to do with it, when the manga has displayed Kakashi collapsing or feeling exhausted warping something with a decent size wether it was a clone or arrows. Incomplete Susano'o is still to big, obviously if the manga shows us him doing that in the future then I can agree.

 

[The Sach]

Nope, he only received Kyuubi's chakra after Obito's identity was revealed.
The inside of Kurama's cloak argument is baseless last resort of folk who don't want to give Kakashi credit where credit is due, and it was already demolished many times.

Spoiler

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If you are talking about this scan, then I can say he attempted to Kamui it, he didn't Kamui it.

He received Kyubi's chakra only later in the fight, but you're a Kamui downplayer so i guess you slipped through the whole fight on purpose

It is quite amusing that without even knowing me, how can you call me Kamui downplayer.Zzz
If you could have said he Kamui'd 'any other thing', I could have accepted it, for gado I can only say he 'tried to' Kamui it, he didn't Kamui it.:yeah:

 

[Strict]

Anyone thinking Kakashi couldn't absorb a humans body instantly is beyond help. He absorbed Naruto's Bunshin faster than Obito's stake was. And even if you consider Kyuubi's Chakra being a factor, Kakashi could store up Chakra for a moment, to absorb the target faster [

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].

At the time Kakashi absorbed Naruto's Bunshin, he didn't receive Kyuubi's Chakra to an amount he could call it a boost. The first time he recognized it as a boost, was when he released the Hachibi out of the Kamui dimension.

Sasuke however has the advantage against Kakashi, because his Amaterasu is an instant projectile as well, and his Susanoo is able to extend the time of Kamui's absorption due to the size.

 

[Takos]

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If you are talking about this scan, then I can say he attempted to Kamui it, he didn't Kamui it.

Nope, the Kamui was already cast. The hole was created and Gedo would have been sucked if not for Obito's intervention.

If you need a proof of Kakashi's Kamui's casting being complete, look at the very page you showed here and notice Kakashi being tired from using Kamui.

 

[xKiD SPiiD3rMaN]

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If you are talking about this scan, then I can say he attempted to Kamui it, he didn't Kamui it.


It is quite amusing that without even knowing me, how can you call me Kamui downplayer.Zzz
If you could have said he Kamui'd 'any other thing', I could have accepted it, for gado I can only say he 'tried to' Kamui it, he didn't Kamui it.:yeah:

Whether he attempted to do it or successfully did it doesn't matter as you still see the warp hole appear which means he still expended the chakra to do the jutsu. It even shows him panting a few panels later. Why would he pant if it didn't take chakra?

Just like if Naruto makes a rasengan but doesn't hit anyone with it, it doesn't mean he didn't use the chakra to activate the jutsu.

 

[Bogard]

Hate has nothing to do with it, when the manga has displayed Kakashi collapsing or feeling exhausted warping something with a decent size wether it was a clone or arrows. Incomplete Susano'o is still to big, obviously if the manga shows us him doing that in the future then I can agree.

Before the fight against Jinchurikis even started, he was already worrying about his chakra reserves, but he still managed to use shadow clones 2times(so splitting his chakra reserve in 4), used Kamui 5 or 6times along with many other taxing jutsus(Raikiri, lightning chain and so on) during his fight against Obito and the Jinchuriki before collapsing(not counting Kyubi's chakra he received in chapter 610).

On 1 of his Kamui's he almost warped something as big as Gedo Mazo's head(roughly 15m) and many human size(Naruto or himself included to come back from the Kamui dimension for the last time before running out of chakra).

You say he was exhausted after warping something of decent size like clones but forgetting the chakra quantity he spent before warping said clones. Before warping it, he even stated himself that he could only use few kamui due to his depleted chakra reserve. The size of kamui depends on the quantity of chakra Kakashi put into it, so obviously if he is low on chakra like it was the case at that moment, he wouldn't be capable to warp huge size without collapsing

However with full chakra, with the feats he has displayed during this war, he should be capable to warp a 7m Susanoo with relative ease

 

[End of Days]

even if susanoo or BM is up all kakashi needs to do is aim for the part where narto and sasuke are and kamui would swallow them and the chakra surrounding them and then close the kamui barrier, its the same as ripping off deidara's arm

so the way to defeat kakashi is too hit him before he gets to use it or distraction like clones or speed

obito can evade their attacks till they run out of chakra for susanoo and BM

i dont see sasuke defeating him whereas naruto's only chance is frog katas

 

[Champ]

Before the fight against Jinchurikis even started, he was already worrying about his chakra reserves, but he still managed to use shadow clones 2times(so splitting his chakra reserve in 4), used Kamui 5 or 6times along with many other taxing jutsus(Raikiri, lightning chain and so on) during his fight against Obito and the Jinchuriki before collapsing(not counting Kyubi's chakra he received in chapter 610).

On 1 of his Kamui's he almost warped something as big as Gedo Mazo's head(roughly 15m) and many human size(Naruto or himself included to come back from the Kamui dimension for the last time before running out of chakra).

You say he was exhausted after warping something of decent size like clones but forgetting the chakra quantity he spent before warping said clones. Before warping it, he even stated himself that he could only use few kamui due to his depleted chakra reserve. The size of kamui depends on the quantity of chakra Kakashi put into it, so obviously if he is low on chakra like it was the case at that moment, he wouldn't be capable to warp huge size without collapsing

However with full chakra, with the feats he has displayed during this war, he should be capable to warp a 7m Susanoo with relative ease

The debate is can full chakra Kakashi warp this Incomplete Susano'o

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I say it's too big, when before a fully rested Kakashi felt fatigue after warping two thin arrows. Makes no sense for Kakashi to get a chakra boost now in the manga when he's always had a 3.

 

[Takos]

The debate is can full chakra Kakashi warp this Incomplete Susano'o

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I say it's too big, when before a fully rested Kakashi felt fatigue after warping two thin arrows. Makes no sense for Kakashi to get a chakra boost now in the manga when he's always had a 3.

Don't forget that against the two arrows there was another factor - the short time between consecutive Kamui shots to warp both arrows (probably a fraction of a second or so).

It does make sense for him to get better stamina - abilities of all characters develop and Kakashi is no exception. His recent feats prove it.

 

[Klad]

Hoo , this thread is still going on ? O_O

 

[xKiD SPiiD3rMaN]

The debate is can full chakra Kakashi warp this Incomplete Susano'o

Spoiler

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I say it's too big, when before a fully rested Kakashi felt fatigue after warping two thin arrows. Makes no sense for Kakashi to get a chakra boost now in the manga when he's always had a 3.

You shouldn't let the databook stamina stat mislead you. Although Kakashi's stamina stat from Part 1 and Early Part 2 are the same, it's worth noting that even then we've seen him improve in the chakra/stamina category.

Against Zabuza minimal base sharingan use put him under for about a week, but obviously that's not the case anymore as not only has he used the base sharingan extensively, but he has also used the MS.

When he first used MS and kamui, it was the same story as against Zabuza. Barely any use of it was extremely tasking for him, but then afterwards he used it against Pain along with other chakra taxing techniques, and then twice against Sasuke like it was nothing.

So this whole time Kakashi has been improving.

Whether you think it's a boost to his chakra pool or his efficiency with chakra control is up to you, but don't be blind to the fact that he is making leaps and bounds constantly as far as use of his sharingan in conjunction with other chakra taxing techniques.

 

[Champ]

Don't forget that against the two arrows there was another factor - the short time between consecutive Kamui shots to warp both arrows (probably a fraction of a second or so).

It does make sense for him to get better stamina - abilities of all characters develop and Kakashi is no exception. His recent feats prove it.

I don't believe there was a interval between the warping, I see both happening simultaneous, it wasn't like both arrows were going in opposites directions. Kakashi saw them clearly though the arrows are fast, but can be seen.

You shouldn't let the databook stamina stat mislead you. Although Kakashi's stamina stat from Part 1 and Early Part 2 are the same, it's worth noting that even then we've seen him improve in the chakra/stamina category.

Against Zabuza minimal base sharingan use put him under for about a week, but obviously that's not the case anymore as not only has he used the base sharingan extensively, but he has also used the MS.

When he first used MS and kamui, it was the same story as against Zabuza. Barely any use of it was extremely tasking for him, but then afterwards he used it against Pain along with other chakra taxing techniques, and then twice against Sasuke like it was nothing.

So this whole time Kakashi has been improving.

Whether you think it's a boost to his chakra pool or his efficiency with chakra control is up to you, but don't be blind to the fact that he is making leaps and bounds constantly as far as use of his sharingan in conjunction with other chakra taxing techniques.

But if Kakashi is improving then I can't hate on him like I usually do =(

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

i agree with OP of ahmed1993 that naruto and sasuke are > MS kakashi and MS obito U_U
NIce thread