Kakashi Hatake(with Beheader Blade) vs Kisame Hoshigaki

[pateuvasiliu]

Pain felt it because they weren't creating a warping vortex with their feet.

Kisame lacks the speed to avoid Kamui.

 

[EZQ]

Kamui's warp point has no chakra in it for Samehada to absorb. Chakra is spent to open the warp point but no chakra is present in the warp point. So Samehada can't absorb Kamui. Just wanted to point that out.

^^^This, samehada absorbing kamui is stupidly flawed

 

[EZQ]

Not if he is merged ..

Either way, if Samehada could absorb kamui, he wouldn't have time to react to it, no way.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Just because he has shown to be able to use high level suiton, doesn't mean he can go around spamming it in a way that Kisame can. My point here was, he's up against someone who's chakra prool far outclasses him. If he's going to keep on matching Kisames suiton, the last one standing is clear.

Yeah, I'm aware he can't spam it like Kisame. I'm just pointing out, if he gets in a tight situation and has to match an attack from Kisame, he's capable. He wouldn't need to continue matching Kisame in suiton. His speed is good enough to avoid just about everything Kisame can throw at him.

Who's to say Kisame needs to create up to a 1,000 in one given go? He can very well muster up half of that, or whatever amount the given water source permits. I find it a little ridiculous that you think something such as

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will be simply sidestepped and dodged by Kakashi. His speed and reaction time doesn't compare to that of a Gated Gai; and given the scan I provided, it doesn't seem that Gai had any other way of avoiding it, other then obliterating the bulk of it with his Morning Peacock.

I stated quite clearly in my post that Gai HAD to go on the attack. He needed the scroll that one of Kisame's sharks possessed. That is the only reason he went head on with Kisame. He wouldn't have had to otherwise.

Again, Kakashi is simply going to sidestep something at

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? C'mon man.

A. Kakashi's sharingan will allow him to notice something is about to happen.

B. He was able to avoid something with this kind of blast radius

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from point blank range with base speed and still make it over, with base speed, to intercept Raiton Gian(which showed to be a pretty fast attack)

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.

Kakashi can avoid anything Kisame throws at him, especially if he enhances his speed with raikiri.

Far superior in CQC? You're undermining Kisame. Kisame effortlessly caught 2 taijutsu masters in a water prison. His Mizu Bunshins clones can liquefy upon contact and swallow Kakashi in.

Kakashi has shown CQC feats that surpass both Neji and Lee. You'd have a point if he did it to Gai(Gai actually managed to take his weapon from him..granted, all for not given Samehada's dedication to Kisame, but still)..Neji and Lee being caught doesn't concern me in regards to Kakashi though.

Indeed they can. Something that could be combated by the fact that it could be a Kakashi bunshin that it traps. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong because I don't quite remember, has Kisame ever resorted to mizu bunshins when against a high level opponent? Doesn't seem like he feels they're worth the chakra they take up(even if he is a chakra god) when facing someone of a relatively high level.

Mizu Bunshins are capable of harboring 1/10 of it's original chakra. Keep in mind it took Kisame less then 3/10 of his chakra to create a giant lake. And they don't need to be right next to the original. Take a look at how far away he was [

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]

A lake, yes, but not an ocean. Good point on the bunshins though. What was it that Neji used to break the water dome? Was it the technique he used to fend off those Zetsus when they clung to him? Why did it break all 3 of the water domes(and clones) at the same time? I understand why it'd break his..but not all 3.

 

[Zexion~]

Pain felt it because they weren't creating a warping vortex with their feet.

Kisame lacks the speed to avoid Kamui.

Its still chakra building up...

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Its still chakra building up...

That within half a second translates in Kisame being headless.

Kisame needs to be faster than Ay was at the Kage Summit to avoid that.

 

[EZQ]

Its still chakra building up...

Still, kisame wouldn't have time to react to it

Kamui is faster than a susanoo arrow

Goodbye kisame's head

 

[Zexion~]

That within half a second translates in Kisame being headless.

Kisame needs to be faster than Ay was at the Kage Summit to avoid that.

Not really, it still has to CHARGE CHAKRA.. but i dont feel like arguing this anymore

 

[EZQ]

Not really, it still has to CHARGE CHAKRA.. but i dont feel like arguing this anymore

Kakashi doesn't need to charge chakra when it comes to human sized things, and if its about his head then he definitely can do it instantly

WHEN SASUKE FIRED A SUSANOO ARROW (BIGGER THAN A HUMAN) KAKASHI HAD HIS 3TOMOE ACTIVATED, MEANING THAT HE ACTIVATED MS AND WARPED THE ARROW IN LESS THAN A HALF SECOND, KISAME DEFINITELY DIES

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Not really, it still has to CHARGE CHAKRA.. but i dont feel like arguing this anymore

I already proved that charging said chakra takes less than half a second, and that was in the case of a large object such as a susanoo arrow whereas Kisame's head is small.

 

[Zexion~]

I already proved that charging said chakra takes less than half a second, and that was in the case of a large object such as a susanoo arrow whereas Kisame's head is small.

So why did it take him years to charge for deidara's arm

 

[EliteKakashi]

So why did it take him years to charge for deidara's arm

You're going to have a really bad time if you try using something that happened over 300 chapters ago when he's clearly improved with the technique.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Yeah, I'm aware he can't spam it like Kisame. I'm just pointing out, if he gets in a tight situation and has to match an attack from Kisame, he's capable. He wouldn't need to continue matching Kisame in suiton. His speed is good enough to avoid just about everything Kisame can throw at him.

He's capable, to an extent. And I still disagree with you on Kakashi being able to avoid nearly everything Kisame has. I'll elaborate more on that below.

I stated quite clearly in my post that Gai HAD to go on the attack. He needed the scroll that one of Kisame's sharks possessed. That is the only reason he went head on with Kisame. He wouldn't have had to otherwise.

Okay, and these were sharks that weren't even aiming at Gai, but rather to escape from him. A whole different ball game.

A. Kakashi's sharingan will allow him to notice something is about to happen.

B. He was able to avoid something with this kind of blast radius

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from point blank range with base speed and still make it over, with base speed, to intercept Raiton Gian(which showed to be a pretty fast attack)

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.

Kakashi can avoid anything Kisame throws at him, especially if he enhances his speed with raikiri.

Kakashi obviously didn't dodge the wind blast. Take a look at his attire

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to getting hit. Now, take a look immediately

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getting hit. It's quite obvious Hidan and Kakashi took the full on effects of Kakuzu's wind blast. There was absolutely no room for him to dodge.

Kakashi has shown CQC feats that surpass both Neji and Lee. You'd have a point if he did it to Gai(Gai actually managed to take his weapon from him..granted, all for not given Samehada's dedication to Kisame, but still)..Neji and Lee being caught doesn't concern me in regards to Kakashi though.

Indeed they can. Something that could be combated by the fact that it could be a Kakashi bunshin that it traps. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong because I don't quite remember, has Kisame ever resorted to mizu bunshins when against a high level opponent? Doesn't seem like he feels they're worth the chakra they take up(even if he is a chakra god) when facing someone of a relatively high level.

Kisame was able to overwhelm Gai in CQC [

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]-[

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] So, really, what difference does it make? He'd be able to do capture Gai in a water prison as well. Not to mention Gai has a .5 greater score in the databook then Kakashi in speed and taijutsu.

We have only seen Kisame fight 3 times. Twice against Gai and once against Bee. It didn't make much sense for Kisame to use it against Gai during there second scuffle, as he had an entire ocean to his disposal. And verse Bee, he didn't supply himself with a water source until he used the Water Dome and fused with it.

A lake, yes, but not an ocean. Good point on the bunshins though. What was it that Neji used to break the water dome? Was it the technique he used to fend off those Zetsus when they clung to him? Why did it break all 3 of the water domes(and clones) at the same time? I understand why it'd break his..but not all 3.

Read what the

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has to say about it. It's a massive lake. Even the databook described it as a raging sea. And yes it was the technique he used to free himself from Zetsu's binding. It's called the Body Blow technique, where he releases chakra out of every chakra point in his body. He only broke out of the water prison that contained him [

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]

 

[Fireplay]

Kisame takes this. Kisame is a way better swordsman but if they're allowed to use jutsus then i don't know how this would turn out.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Okay, and these were sharks that weren't even aiming at Gai, but rather to escape from him. A whole different ball game.

They were aimed right at him, lol. Yes, Kisame was trying to escape, but he was trying to hit Gai in the process.

Kakashi obviously didn't dodge the wind blast. Take a look at his attire

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to getting hit. Now, take a look immediately

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getting hit. It's quite obvious Hidan and Kakashi took the full on effects of Kakuzu's wind blast. There was absolutely no room for him to dodge.

Full effects? The blast tore apart gigantic trees. If he took the full brunt of the blast he would have been dead. All it did to him was cause his flak jacket to fly off, nothing really worth noting. Note what Hidan said

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"You're the first one we couldn't kill using that". Kakuzu notes he saw through it with his sharingan which allowed him to avoid it, or at least taking any actual damage from it. Kakashi even takes a moment to note how low his chakra is, and he could have noted being damaged by the futon, if it was something that effected him...but he didn't.

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.

Kisame was able to overwhelm Gai in CQC [

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]-[

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] So, really, what difference does it make? He'd be able to do capture Gai in a water prison as well. Not to mention Gai has a .5 greater score in the databook then Kakashi in speed and taijutsu.

Kisame overwhelmed Gai in brute strength. Gai's used to being stronger than people he faces, thus his combat style often revolves around using strength, noted in part 1 as well

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. Kakashi's fighting style revolves much more around speed and technique. He doesn't possess extraordinary strength, at least not on the same lines as Gai, or obviously not Kisame.

We have only seen Kisame fight 3 times. Twice against Gai and once against Bee. It didn't make much sense for Kisame to use it against Gai during there second scuffle, as he had an entire ocean to his disposal. And verse Bee, he didn't supply himself with a water source until he used the Water Dome and fused with it.

Fair enough with the point on Gai, but why would Kisame need a water source for a suiton bunshin? Kakashi and Zabuza could use it without one in part 1, I have no doubt that Kisame could as well. He's the greatest suiton user(by feats, anyway) we've seen in the manga.

Read what the

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has to say about it. It's a massive lake. Even the databook described it as a raging sea. And yes it was the technique he used to free himself from Zetsu's binding. It's called the Body Blow technique, where he releases chakra out of every chakra point in his body. He only broke out of the water prison that contained him [

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]

A massive lake, yes, but enough to create 1,000 sharks? Even if it is, like I said, I think Kakashi has shown the sufficient speed to dodge it, given the time it showed to take to reach Gai.

I'm assuming he just defeated the suiton bushins that held Lee and Tenten off-panel(as the next panel is TenTen thanking him for saving them).

The biggest issue with Kakashi in this fight is how he's going to kill Kisame. Kakashi, even with war arc stamina feats, would still run out of chakra long before Kisame. The executioner blade gives him a good option to kill Kisame with a surprise attack, ala what he did to Kakuzu(well, he used raikiri vs kakuzu, but I'm talking about the blitzing without being noticed part..), or even being quick enough to intervene without Obito noticing when trying to grab Naruto

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, which is another impressive base speed feat by Kakashi.

Kisame likely takes the fight more times than not(6/10 or 7/10 I'd guesstimate..), but not without a lot of difficulty(certainly more than some in this thread seem to believe, such as Egg Pirate).

 

[pateuvasiliu]

So why did it take him years to charge for deidara's arm

Deidara was obviously flying faster than BM Naruto.

Spoiler

IF you're going to act stupid I will treat you as such

 

[Champ]

Kisame low diff

 

[Forbidden Technique]

They were aimed right at him, lol. Yes, Kisame was trying to escape, but he was trying to hit Gai in the process.

No they weren't. Take a closer look at the direction the sharks were facing [

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] Furthermore;

You can clearly see the sharks weren't even aiming at him, but rather to swim passed him

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Full effects? The blast tore apart gigantic trees. If he took the full brunt of the blast he would have been dead. All it did to him was cause his flak jacket to fly off, nothing really worth noting. Note what Hidan said

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"You're the first one we couldn't kill using that". Kakuzu notes he saw through it with his sharingan which allowed him to avoid it, or at least taking any actual damage from it. Kakashi even takes a moment to note how low his chakra is, and he could have noted being damaged by the futon, if it was something that effected him...but he didn't.

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.

Perhaps, I exaggerated. But nevertheless, Kakashi didn't completely dodge the entirety of the fuuton. And Tbh, saying it tore up a bunch of dead trees, doesn't sound impressive. They were hollow. Which was shown when Kakashi went right through it [

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] and was even kneeling inside of it [

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] So saying the wind blast took out these trees, doesn't say much about it's blowing force.

Kisame overwhelmed Gai in brute strength. Gai's used to being stronger than people he faces, thus his combat style often revolves around using strength, noted in part 1 as well

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. Kakashi's fighting style revolves much more around speed and technique. He doesn't possess extraordinary strength, at least not on the same lines as Gai, or obviously not Kisame.

You're down playing Kisame, once again. Saying Kisame overwhelmed Gai because of his brute strength holds no weight. Kisame overwhelmed the faster taijutsu master in CQC. That's all that's need to be said. So going back to you saying Kisame catching Lee and Neji isn't impressive, but it would have if he had caught Gai, here you go. He could of done the same to Gai in catching him in a Water Prison.

A massive lake, yes, but enough to create 1,000 sharks? Even if it is, like I said, I think Kakashi has shown the sufficient speed to dodge it, given the time it showed to take to reach Gai.

I'm assuming he just defeated the suiton bushins that held Lee and Tenten off-panel(as the next panel is TenTen thanking him for saving them).

The biggest issue with Kakashi in this fight is how he's going to kill Kisame. Kakashi, even with war arc stamina feats, would still run out of chakra long before Kisame. The executioner blade gives him a good option to kill Kisame with a surprise attack, ala what he did to Kakuzu(well, he used raikiri vs kakuzu, but I'm talking about the blitzing without being noticed part..), or even being quick enough to intervene without Obito noticing when trying to grab Naruto

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, which is another impressive base speed feat by Kakashi.

Kisame likely takes the fight more times than not(6/10 or 7/10 I'd guesstimate..), but not without a lot of difficulty(certainly more than some in this thread seem to believe, such as Egg Pirate).

I have already proven why it would be a different scenario if the sharks were aimed at Gai, which they weren't

As I already explained to, Samehada being a sensor, eliminates Kakashi's chances of using bunshin feints and blitzing behind Kisame for a surprise attack. And yes, I agree with you. I'd say Kisame takes it med-high difficulty. Certainly won't be easy.

 

[sharingan67]

Kakashi no diff.