It's official than 1st>4th

[Itachi Namikaze]

U mad???????????????????? Lol

Are you trolling?

But honestly to answer your question yes I am upset. First off at kishi who went ahead with his Uchiha fanboyism and gave the Uchihas basically every powerup in history, and then I am mad because people like you and Draegod don't use logic and think that Hashirama beat Madara with both the rinnegan and the EMS.

Madara knows Kabuto, he knows Nagato, the manga said he was better than he was in his "prime" because Kabuto knew that Madara did not die in his fight with Hashi. Are you just going to ignore that? Kishi basically told us with all of that, that Hashi did not beat Madara with the rinnegan and that Madara was alive after their fight.

I don't know how you are going to dispute facts but whatever they are there.
The funny thing is that you two are the ones who always accuse others of being fanboys but both of you are some of the biggest fanboys on Narutobase. Well alright not anywhere close to the biggest but you still are fanboys who ignore facts and make up your own.

 

[blazekev90]

Are you trolling?

But honestly to answer your question yes I am upset. First off at kishi who went ahead with his Uchiha fanboyism and gave the Uchihas basically every powerup in history, and then I am mad because people like you and Draegod don't use logic and think that Hashirama beat Madara with both the rinnegan and the EMS.

Madara knows Kabuto, he knows Nagato, the manga said he was better than he was in his "prime" because Kabuto knew that Madara did not die in his fight with Hashi. Are you just going to ignore that? Kishi basically told us with all of that, that Hashi did not beat Madara with the rinnegan and that Madara was alive after their fight.

I don't know how you are going to dispute facts but whatever they are there.
The funny thing is that you two are the ones who always accuse others of being fanboys but both of you are some of the biggest fanboys on Narutobase. Well alright not anywhere close to the biggest but you still are fanboys who ignore facts and make up your own.

i stated i was trolling once i created this thread. Also, it doesnt matter if he had rinnegan or not, he was still badass and changes nothing. The only fanboy I am for is Orochimaru bruh, u I can say otherwise.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

i stated i was trolling once i created this thread. Also, it doesnt matter if he had rinnegan or not, he was still badass and changes nothing. The only fanboy I am for is Orochimaru bruh, u I can say otherwise.

Well it actually changes a whole lot. EMS Madara was going to get beat by a clone of Naruto who was out of chakra. Had Hashirama beaten madara with the rinnegan and the EMS then that would make him quite literally the strongest ninja ever to exist which we know is not true as he is dead first off, and secondly he fought on equal terms with Madara throughout their numerous clan battles so I don't see how he can stay equal with someone who keeps getting the most haxxed kg's ever and is increasing at an exponential rate. And as far as we know the Senju don't get ridiculous power ups like the Uchiha so there is no way that Hashirama could have kept up with him, nor is there any way that most Senju could fight on equal terms with MS, EMS, or rinnegan.

By the way I know you are trolling it was a rhetorical question but I honestly don't get how some people can overrate Hashirama so much. I am a fan of both Itachi and Minato and I will admit that neither one of them stands a chance against madara. Itachi's only chance is to seal him with the Totsuka sword in a Susanoo battle or while Madara sleeps, and Minato's only chance is to keep running forever and make him use up all of his chakra. Both of those are highly unlikely so Madara beats them 99% of the time.

 

[blazekev90]

Well it actually changes a whole lot. EMS Madara was going to get beat by a clone of Naruto who was out of chakra. Had Hashirama beaten madara with the rinnegan and the EMS then that would make him quite literally the strongest ninja ever to exist which we know is not true as he is dead first off, and secondly he fought on equal terms with Madara throughout their numerous clan battles so I don't see how he can stay equal with someone who keeps getting the most haxxed kg's ever and is increasing at an exponential rate. And as far as we know the Senju don't get ridiculous power ups like the Uchiha so there is no way that Hashirama could have kept up with him, nor is there any way that most Senju could fight on equal terms with MS, EMS, or rinnegan.

By the way I know you are trolling it was a rhetorical question but I honestly don't get how some people can overrate Hashirama so much. I am a fan of both Itachi and Minato and I will admit that neither one of them stands a chance against madara. Itachi's only chance is to seal him with the Totsuka sword in a Susanoo battle or while Madara sleeps, and Minato's only chance is to keep running forever and make him use up all of his chakra. Both of those are highly unlikely so Madara beats them 99% of the time.

Madara was obvious fighting recklessly and wasnt taking into consideration of the threats infront of him. We cannot conclude if the 1st could or couldnt keep up with him or anyone in his league, all we know is that he defeated him and to be honest thats all we need to know as of now. More infomation should come to help solve things for us, but until than Madara EMS was badass enough for him to be the leader of his clan and help him with his accomlpishments, and the fake Madara is known to be a shadow of him in that state. Therefore, its safe to say that the 1st was OP and deserves his credit, the 4th has had enough and all he was fight a weaker poster (its true). Nonetheless, i have my opinion without being bias and you have yours, though i still think your being a fanboy, a good one tho. #theend

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Madara was obvious fighting recklessly and wasnt taking into consideration of the threats infront of him. We cannot conclude if the 1st could or couldnt keep up with him or anyone in his league, all we know is that he defeated him and to be honest thats all we need to know as of now. More infomation should come to help solve things for us, but until than Madara EMS was badass enough for him to be the leader of his clan and help him with his accomlpishments, and the fake Madara is known to be a shadow of him in that state. Therefore, its safe to say that the 1st was OP and deserves his credit, the 4th has had enough and all he was fight a weaker poster (its true). Nonetheless, i have my opinion without being bias and you have yours, though i still think your being a fanboy, a good one tho. #theend

How am I being a fanboy? I never said anything good about Minato in that post. I just said that Madara was more than anyone should be able to handle. I don't understand how that is fanboyism...?

By the way I don't think he had EMS until right around when Konoha was formed because he took his brother's EMS so that he could beat Hashirama, but then the rest of the Uchiha voted to form a village making his brother's sacrifice pointless. This matters because hashirama and Madara were equals before Konoha was a village and it was just their clans, so how could hashirama then be an equal to the EMS madara and especially the rinnegan Madara? That was my point, he couldn't have been, especially with the abilities we know Hashi has.

 

[blazekev90]

How am I being a fanboy? I never said anything good about Minato in that post. I just said that Madara was more than anyone should be able to handle. I don't understand how that is fanboyism...?

By the way I don't think he had EMS until right around when Konoha was formed because he took his brother's EMS so that he could beat Hashirama, but then the rest of the Uchiha voted to form a village making his brother's sacrifice pointless. This matters because hashirama and Madara were equals before Konoha was a village and it was just their clans, so how could hashirama then be an equal to the EMS madara and especially the rinnegan Madara? That was my point, he couldn't have been, especially with the abilities we know Hashi has.

only time will tell, this argument is pointless now and I'm actually tired. (Orochimaru argument I could go for that, but not tonight)

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

only time will tell, this argument is pointless now and I'm actually tired now. (Orochimaru argument I could go for that, but not tonight)

Alright, I mean I don't think I have any arguments about Oro. Maybe some discussion theories, because he was obviously researching the SO6P before anyone else was and knew a ton about Madara and Tobi and this entire thing because Kabuto knows about it as well. It makes you wonder what Oro was up to the entire time he was not attacking people and why he didn't capitalize on his knowledge like Kabuto is doing now.

 

[blazekev90]

Alright, I mean I don't think I have any arguments about Oro. Maybe some discussion theories, because he was obviously researching the SO6P before anyone else was and knew a ton about Madara and Tobi and this entire thing because Kabuto knows about it as well. It makes you wonder what Oro was up to the entire time he was not attacking people and why he didn't capitalize on his knowledge like Kabuto is doing now.

A lot of questions surrounding how great he was lol, but lets save that til later today. I'm out!!

 

[Revan]

Do you guys honestly think that Hashirama beat Madara who had both the EMS and rinnegan? If you do then you are insane. I'll give credit where credit is due but there is just no way Hashirama stands a chance against a rinnegan user and an EMS user.

What likely happened is that madara probably didn't have the rinnegan during that fight and either faked his death so that he could get it, or that he actually won that fight and let Hashi walk away.

Honestly tell me how on earth can Hashirama beat someone like that? He can't there is no possible way and if you guys thinks so then you are bigger fanboys then any Minato fan could ever be. At least I'm willing to admit that Minato stands no chance against Madara who has both the rinnegan and EMS.

i think so. it's yet unclear how madara died, but since tobi's story of madara loosing the fight at will, surviving and getting the senju-dna to explain why he is still alive is obviously wrong, i currently think that madara died in his final fight against hashirama.

i dont know why you consider it being impossible for hashi to beat rinnegan+ems-madara, since we know like nothing about hashi at all. we have never seen hashi in a real fight, so there's no possibility to decide what he can do with his mokuton, how fast he is and what additional jutsus he can use.
based on the general story that was believed in the narutoverse, that hashi killed madara, i think it's safe to assume that if madara had the sage's eyes, his concurrent hashirama would have the sage's body, which basically should be as strong as the rinnegan, whatever it may be.

about his knowledge about nagato: no idea where he nows him from. but if hashi didnt kill madara, who did?

 

[blazekev90]

i think so. it's yet unclear how madara died, but since tobi's story of madara loosing the fight at will, surviving and getting the senju-dna to explain why he is still alive is obviously wrong, i currently think that madara died in his final fight against hashirama.

i dont know why you consider it being impossible for hashi to beat rinnegan+ems-madara, since we know like nothing about hashi at all. we have never seen hashi in a real fight, so there's no possibility to decide what he can do with his mokuton, how fast he is and what additional jutsus he can use.
based on the general story that was believed in the narutoverse, that hashi killed madara, i think it's safe to assume that if madara had the sage's eyes, his concurrent hashirama would have the sage's body, which basically should be as strong as the rinnegan, whatever it may be.

about his knowledge about nagato: no idea where he nows him from. but if hashi didnt kill madara, who did?

I agree man

 

[Shodaime]

This image is so epic it prove shodiame is the best! mm special scroll..mmm kishi give us that fight in flashback already and prove who's the best
madara is so mad cuz there's nothing he can do to beat hashi lol and so many bruise,looks like shodaime was massacred him lol

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[blazekev90]

This image is so epic it prove shodiame is the best! mm special scroll..mmm kishi give us that fight in flashback already and prove who's the best
madara is so mad cuz there's nothing he can do to beat hashi lol and so many bruise,looks like shodaime was massacred him lol

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that really is an epic image, and I noticed how his trees looked badass flowing towards them both (power and speed).

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

i think so. it's yet unclear how madara died, but since tobi's story of madara loosing the fight at will, surviving and getting the senju-dna to explain why he is still alive is obviously wrong, i currently think that madara died in his final fight against hashirama.

i dont know why you consider it being impossible for hashi to beat rinnegan+ems-madara, since we know like nothing about hashi at all. we have never seen hashi in a real fight, so there's no possibility to decide what he can do with his mokuton, how fast he is and what additional jutsus he can use.
based on the general story that was believed in the narutoverse, that hashi killed madara, i think it's safe to assume that if madara had the sage's eyes, his concurrent hashirama would have the sage's body, which basically should be as strong as the rinnegan, whatever it may be.

about his knowledge about nagato: no idea where he nows him from. but if hashi didnt kill madara, who did?

Well first off about his speed. Oro's IWR was weaker than kabuto's but only because Oro was controlling them so they didn't have the full range of their arsenal. The speed and strength we saw in the fight against Hiruzen is the speed and strength that Hashirama has to have. He can't have more, unless you think that all the IWR's created by Kabuto are actually much faster and stronger physically then they have been shown to be.


Secondly the rinnegan is pretty much the most OP thing ever, followed closely by the EMS and the abilities that even a normal sharingan gives you. Because of this taijutsu would be useless against someone of Madara's speed because of the benefits of a 3 tomoe sharingan. And he could copy any jutsu that Hashi uses with the sharingan and because of the rinnegan he can use all jutsus that aren't KG. (maybe KG it hasn't been proven either way but I am being safe)

So since taijutsu is a no go, and genjutsu would be stupid since Madara has two things that can see chakra and see through some genjutsu, that also would be fairly useless. Now let's go to ninjutsu, Madara can absorb literally everything that Hashi would throw at him. He can take hashi's attacks and use it to gain more chakra. OP maybe? And he doesn't even need to do that, he could use shinra tensei to knock everything back, or to pull in Hashi and kill him like Nagato did to Fukasaku.

And that isn't even all of the abilities that Madara has, he has Susanoo, at least two more EMS powers, his inferno fireball jutsu, is skilled with a blade, and is extremely fast.

So combining someone who is already top level without the with the rinnegan just makes them super OP. Did you see how many people he killed before he even had the EMS activated? And he didn't even attack with EMS, he only defended himself.


P.S. To that kid who posted a picture of that fight and said Madara looks scared or angry. Look at Madara's eyes, do you see the rinnegan? Doesn't look that way to me. Hashi couldn't do it.

 

[HBKJames]

I don't think you can lose with either pick. But I wouldn't be inclided to side in Hashirama's favor so quickly & for the sake of arguement pick Minato

Yes Hashirama was extremely powerful and was on par with Madara more or less. But Minato was also extremely powerful, so much so that he had "flee on sight" orders whenever any enemy saw him; didn't matter if it was a few ninja or an entire fleet; he was able to take out hundreds in seconds just as easily. He even took on both the 4th Raikage & Killer Bee with such ease. And we know how insanely powerful and equally full of pride the Raikage is. And even he admitted Minato had reached a level no one could ever surpass

Also fact; Hashirama was defeated & eventually killed in battl;e by someone. Minato was never beaten and killed in battle

 

[blazekev90]

I don't think you can lose with either pick. But I wouldn't be inclided to side in Hashirama's favor so quickly & for the sake of arguement pick Minato

Yes Hashirama was extremely powerful and was on par with Madara more or less. But Minato was also extremely powerful, so much so that he had "flee on sight" orders whenever any enemy saw him; didn't matter if it was a few ninja or an entire fleet; he was able to take out hundreds in seconds just as easily. He even took on both the 4th Raikage & Killer Bee with such ease. And we know how insanely powerful and equally full of pride the Raikage is. And even he admitted Minato had reached a level no one could ever surpass

Also fact; Hashirama was defeated & eventually killed in battl;e by someone. Minato was never beaten and killed in battle

Fact; Hashirama wasnt killed, its unknown how he died.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Fact; Hashirama wasnt killed, its unknown how he died.

Well I mean you really don't want to get into that because as either you or Draegod pointed out earlier IWR brings people back like they were when they died.

So Hashirama was still fairly young when he died, which would explain why the second was still fairly young when he was Hokage.

So Hashirama either was killed in battle, killed himself, or died of disease. Considering that he is a Senju and Tsunade said in the new hokage arc "All the Hokages died protecting the village" I am going to go out there and say that yes he died in battle.

 

[blazekev90]

Well I mean you really don't want to get into that because as either you or Draegod pointed out earlier IWR brings people back like they were when they died.

So Hashirama was still fairly young when he died, which would explain why the second was still fairly young when he was Hokage.

So Hashirama either was killed in battle, killed himself, or died of disease. Considering that he is a Senju and Tsunade said in the new hokage arc "All the Hokages died protecting the village" I am going to go out there and say that yes he died in battle.

with all that said its still not known if he was killed, period.

 

[Revan]

Well first off about his speed. Oro's IWR was weaker than kabuto's but only because Oro was controlling them so they didn't have the full range of their arsenal. The speed and strength we saw in the fight against Hiruzen is the speed and strength that Hashirama has to have. He can't have more, unless you think that all the IWR's created by Kabuto are actually much faster and stronger physically then they have been shown to be.


Secondly the rinnegan is pretty much the most OP thing ever, followed closely by the EMS and the abilities that even a normal sharingan gives you. Because of this taijutsu would be useless against someone of Madara's speed because of the benefits of a 3 tomoe sharingan. And he could copy any jutsu that Hashi uses with the sharingan and because of the rinnegan he can use all jutsus that aren't KG. (maybe KG it hasn't been proven either way but I am being safe)

So since taijutsu is a no go, and genjutsu would be stupid since Madara has two things that can see chakra and see through some genjutsu, that also would be fairly useless. Now let's go to ninjutsu, Madara can absorb literally everything that Hashi would throw at him. He can take hashi's attacks and use it to gain more chakra. OP maybe? And he doesn't even need to do that, he could use shinra tensei to knock everything back, or to pull in Hashi and kill him like Nagato did to Fukasaku.

And that isn't even all of the abilities that Madara has, he has Susanoo, at least two more EMS powers, his inferno fireball jutsu, is skilled with a blade, and is extremely fast.

So combining someone who is already top level without the with the rinnegan just makes them super OP. Did you see how many people he killed before he even had the EMS activated? And he didn't even attack with EMS, he only defended himself.


P.S. To that kid who posted a picture of that fight and said Madara looks scared or angry. Look at Madara's eyes, do you see the rinnegan? Doesn't look that way to me. Hashi couldn't do it.

why do you think that if oro's iwr-speed is linked to kabuto's? apart from that i dont see why a bad iwr shouldnt limit speed too.

i havent seen madara being so fast. he slaughtered some random nins, which is something that i'd expect from every high-level nin. 3-tomoe works only if the enemy uses straight attacks and movements and hashi fought against sharingans during his whole life, i doubt that he didnt know that.

madara awakened the rinnegan at the end of his life, so dont expect him to be really good with it. nagato had it during his whole life, so i think madara's worse with the rinnegan.

apart from that: hashi didnt look younger than madara. the iwr-madara looks exactly like on the pic, meaning that he died either at that fight or shortly after.

 

[blazekev90]

Also we just saw that it take to have the 9-tails chakra and giant rasegons to even stop wood element, thus that being Madara's first time using it.