Itachi was sick and twisted and deserved to die (Must Read!)

[Simbv]

I won't type a huge paragraph to explain my point but I'll keep it short. The Uchiha we're fated to die period. Either by Itachi or the village. With Itachi and Obito doing it, Sasuke would live and so would many other villagers. If Itachi sided with his clan he would have met his fate with them, and Sasuke would have also been slain. With all the ruckus the civil war caused many would also die in Konoha outside the Uchiha. Word spreads that there was a civil war within the village to other nations and boom, full invasion of other Nations which could lead to the demise of Konoha and the possibility of another world war. Which leads to even more children's death.

Yes it was cruel, but you ARE being hypocritical. Itachi saw pass the boundaries of his clan. Like his father said,"Our pain will be over instantly, but yours shall last a lifetime" or something along those lines.

 

[Magnolius]

Yes it was cruel, but you ARE being hypocritical

Being a hypocrit would be calling Itachi sick for slaughtering his clan and then going and slaughtering someone myself. Maybe you could use a more appropriate word.


Anyways, I know that what Itachi did was inevitable and essentially the lesser evil of his two options. But does that still make what he did okay?

 

[UchiGOD]

The novel says that itachi killed elder people some people from police force ... Obito promised itachi he would kill women and children younger than itachi.
Obito is the crazy one :|

 

[wanderingcactus]

end justifies the means.

have a clan die off or have an entire village killed off in a civil war? take a pick.

 

[Chie]

Maybe it's considered one, but I definitely wasn't a willing participant.

Your title says it all, dear. lol

As I said in my OP, "**** the Adults, they're probably the reason that the Uchiha were slaughtered". I completely understand that Itachi was forced into the actions that he made, and the Uchiha were very incompliant and couldn't be reasoned with. But that still does not justify the slaughter of the innocent, who had no part in it. Or maybe it does serve as an adequate justification, but that doesn't very so make it morally tolerable.

No killing is morally tolerable, I agree. However, the problem is you're using this to make a point that Itachi is nuts and deserves death. A shinobi who chooses the lesser of the two evils and even sets up a punishment and closure for his brother is hardly such.

That's a very... rude and invalid stereotype. But i'll leave you to your opinion.

I didn't mean it in a moral sense, but in the sense of whether or not there were better options for HIM to complete. Really, we could criticize all the shinobi in the series if we were to discuss basic moral implications.

All of these are great facts that support Itachi's actions and serve as great justification. But whether his actions can be justified or not isn't exactly the theme of this thread. It is, were his actions acceptable. And I do think so, in regards to eliminating the adults. But then I take the children into consideration, teenagers, toddlers, and even infants. I have three little brothers, and you're not going to sit here and tell me that Itachi killed them because he was forced to. That is my family, I loved and grew bonds with them. They had nothing to to with the actions of the adults, and were completely innocent, yet butchered and slaughtered simply because they are Uchiha. You might as well start to argue for and justify the Holocaust while you are at it.

Please don't compare the Uchiha fictional scenario to the Holocaust. That's too reaching. Last time I checked, the victims of the Holocaust...

a) Did not contain any threats to their nation
b) Had no chance at saving their lives (unlike the Uchiha who resisted talking)
c) Were killed in various ways... not quickly in one night right away by a kamui master and some teen assassin.

That's a pretty insulting comparison.

You must not have read the OP. Whether it was inevitable or not, the slaughter of innocents is simply intolerable and disgusting.

Yes, and it was the result of Fugaku, some Police Force members, and Danzo. It doesn't help your point regarding Itachi.

I had no choice in whether this person here would be killed or not. But, I might as well be the one who kills this person, because that makes it okay.

If that person is going to be killed regardless but in a more brutal way, and if you don't kill them even more will die, and if you're willing to take on that sin and even later repent for it, and you're a ninja with everyone wanting to use you as some assassin- well, I wouldn't call you insane.

He was a coward who in the end game comitted an EXTREMELY awful crime, whether forced to or not, for the sake of his own life, his brothers life, and a village that has been killing and hating his kind for years.

He's brave.

A coward would not stain their hands with such a sin. If he were cowardly, he would gotten any money he's saved over the years, ran to an inn outside of Konoha for a temporary stay, let the war happen, and then come back having avoided the problem so he could live in the village peacefully.

He evidently decided to not run away from the responsibilities people gave him, did not morally justify his own actions, and then proceeded to create a plan where he would answer to them and benefit his bro as well as the Uchiha name.

That makes this fact solid.

Your point was that he should have relocated people. Mine was that he couldn't as he had no long-term connections. Unless Tobi would have let them all join Akatsuki, but that would never happen. lol

That still wouldn't make Sasuke forgive Itachi. But it also wouldn't make him any better himself. Good thing he didn't go through with his plans.

Alright.

---

You continuously made the argument that not everyone deserved to die. Yes, that is true however this had nothing to do with Itachi. It had to do with Danzo, Fugaku, and the Uchiha Police Force. Your claims would be far better suited being directed towards them than the person who had to bear the brunt of their inadequacy. As their actions are what created the scenario in the first place. I would say that those parties are "sick, twisted, and deserved to die" instead. They deserved far worse than the deaths they got (Danzo got off with a suicide, Fugaku a quick mercy killing by his son, and the Police Force were killed in a regular manner). Their irresponsibility led to this tragedy.

 

[Exaar]

The uchiha's power comes from their emotions, This is well known, Now say if itachi left people alive. They would more than likely of ended up down sasuke's dark path. Sasuke himself caused enough problems now imagine him with a small following of uchiha with potential 3tomoe/MS running around wanting destruction of the leaf, Joining criminal organizations and so on.

Also if itachi did not kill them, Danzo would of done much worse to them and would've made their deaths much more painful. maybe even orochimaru would of had a chance to experiment on some of them. Or even outside villages would of targeted them like they did the hyuga clan at one point due to them being weak and vulnerable without the protection of a village.

The uchiha were pretty much fucked either way. Itachi just gave them the less painful way out.

 

[Chie]

The novel says that itachi killed elder people some people from police force ... Obito promised itachi he would kill women and children younger than itachi.
Obito is the crazy one :|

I recall that lol. He knew Itachi wouldn't be able to carry it out. Says a lot about each character. Obito didn't give a care. Itachi was so disgusted with the way things were going down.

 

[Fountain]

Why did you brought up the adults and all if you only care about the children he slaughtered? You troll

 

[LoZelda101]

A ninja (忍者 ?) or shinobi (忍び ?) was a covert agent or mercenary in feudal Japan. The functions of the ninja included: espionage, sabotage, infiltration, assassination and guerrilla warfare."

itachi did his job. Stop being a moral *****

 

[shelke]

The guy was a jingoistic nut-job; the kind who is indoctrinated into lapping up all the axioms of what they serve. There was nothing revolutionary or just about his or the Leaf’s actions. He killed unknowing children:

You must be registered for see images

He should have sided with his clan or used KA to dissuade Danzo, even his own father, to avert such a heinous crime. He knew Danzo had stolen Shisui’s KA eye. Yet, he still stood with the people who opposed the just cause of his clan. He was a traitor to his own people, his own parents who showered him with nothing but love.

This guy is beyond contempt.

 

[Trúth]

We saw what happened when Itachi left one child alive and your argument is he should have left them all alive...

 

[Magnolius]

No killing is morally tolerable, I agree. However, the problem is you're using this to make a point that Itachi is nuts and deserves death. A shinobi who chooses the lesser of the two evils and even sets up a punishment and closure for his brother is hardly such.

I already told another user that the title was more to draw in everyone attention and corrected myself into by saying that he wasn't exactly insane. But it does take a strong stomach and mental capacity to do what he did.

I didn't mean it in a moral sense, but in the sense of whether or not there were better options for HIM to complete. Really, we could criticize all the shinobi in the series if we were to discuss basic moral implications.

There'll be more threads later

Please don't compare the Uchiha fictional scenario to the Holocaust. That's too reaching. Last time I checked, the victims of the Holocaust...

a) Did not contain any threats to their nation
b) Had no chance at saving their lives (unlike the Uchiha who resisted talking)
c) Were killed in various ways... not quickly in one night right away by a kamui master and some teen assassin.

That's a pretty insulting comparison.

I don't see how it's insulting at all. I already told you that I wasn't speaking in regards to the adults, but rather the children. And if we're talking about infants, toddlers and kids then they fill up two of those three examples.

Yes, and it was the result of Fugaku, some Police Force members, and Danzo. It doesn't help your point regarding Itachi.

It really does. My point being that killing in general is morally unjust, which is my personal belief.

If that person is going to be killed regardless but in a more brutal way, and if you don't kill them even more will die, and if you're willing to take on that sin and even later repent for it, and you're a ninja with everyone wanting to use you as some assassin- well, I wouldn't call you insane.

Again, I'm not exactly trying to call Itachi insane either as explained above.

He's brave.

A coward would not stain their hands with such a sin. If he were cowardly, he would gotten any money he's saved over the years, ran to an inn outside of Konoha for a temporary stay, let the war happen, and then come back having avoided the problem so he could live in the village peacefully.

He evidently decided to not run away from the responsibilities people gave him, did not morally justify his own actions, and then proceeded to create a plan where he would answer to them and benefit his bro as well as the Uchiha name.

We perceive bravery completely differently. I don't think he's brave because he abandoned his clans side and slaughtered them instead of standing by them.

Your point was that he should have relocated people. Mine was that he couldn't as he had no long-term connections. Unless Tobi would have let them all join Akatsuki, but that would never happen. lol

It wasn't a point that i was trying to make. I said that it would be a theory that would make the facts seem less brutal.


Alright.

---

You continuously made the argument that not everyone deserved to die. Yes, that is true however this had nothing to do with Itachi. It had to do with Danzo, Fugaku, and the Uchiha Police Force. Your claims would be far better suited being directed towards them than the person who had to bear the brunt of their inadequacy. As their actions are what created the scenario in the first place. I would say that those parties are "sick, twisted, and deserved to die" instead. They deserved far worse than the deaths they got (Danzo got off with a suicide, Fugaku a quick mercy killing by his son, and the Police Force were killed in a regular manner). Their irresponsibility led to this tragedy.

I made arguments that killing of any kind, forced, intentional and/or justified is wrong. There are people who deserved to die, I never spoke against that. But those children did not.

 

[Magnolius]

A ninja (忍者 ?) or shinobi (忍び ?) was a covert agent or mercenary in feudal Japan. The functions of the ninja included: espionage, sabotage, infiltration, assassination and guerrilla warfare."

itachi did his job. Stop being a moral *****

That's a very great perspective on the subject, but there's no need to call me a moral *****. I stand beside what i believe, and will argue for that belief at all costs.

 

[Trúth]

I already told another user that the title was more to draw in everyone attention and corrected myself into by saying that he wasn't exactly insane. But it does take a strong stomach and mental capacity to do what he did.

He was one of the most sane if not the most sane character so I'm not sure why you're describing him as "not exactly insane"

I don't see how it's insulting at all. I already told you that I wasn't speaking in regards to the adults, but rather the children. And if we're talking about infants, toddlers and kids then they fill up two of those three examples.

You don't see how it's insulting to compare the very real murders of millions of innocent people to the fictional mercy killing of a few dozen adults and a couple children at most who were planning on attacking a village and more than likely starting another great war?

It makes sense now, you couldn't read the story and understand it properly because you're blind.

It really does. My point being that killing in general is morally unjust, which is my personal belief.

Thread Title: Itachi was sick and twisted and deserved to die (Must Read!)

Okay.

And I suppose that you also believe that standing back and allowing the deaths of far more people than he killed is somehow more morally correct.

We perceive bravery completely differently. I don't think he's brave because he abandoned his clans side and slaughtered them instead of standing by them.

Sure, it obviously takes less bravery for a 13 year-old to stand against his family and clan and then kill them all to prevent a war than it does for him to stand and die with them.

Dumbass lol.

I made arguments that killing of any kind, forced, intentional and/or justified is wrong. There are people who deserved to die, I never spoke against that. But those children did not.

It isn't a matter of whether they deserved to die or not. They had to die.

Again

Spoiler

We saw what happened when Itachi left one child alive and your argument is he should have left them all alive...

 

[Aquaglow]

Do you know what a village consists of?


Well, villagers of course :sdo:


Adults: Women, Men, elderly people, grandparents.

Youth: Teenagers, pre-teens, boys and girls, young women and men, all with hopes dreams and aspirations.

Children: little kids, peoples children, toddlers who barely experienced life, babies who had just been born.


All dead.


To be be sick and twisted enough to stab and slaughter and kill every single one of these people is crazy. I would understand him being able to kill adults, that somehow makes it a little better. But the thought of babies that died, and kids clinging to their mothers and fathers as Itachi came and stabbed them all with his sword or burned them down with Katon. It's purely disgusting. Everyone holds him to high and mighty, forgetting that he brutally murdered children and innocent old people, destroying families and ultimately commiting genocide. I understand that he was forced to, but not against his will. He had the option to kill the clan or die with them when the leaf village came. He took the cowards way out. As far as the manga says, there were no survivors. That means that he dug his steel blade into the throats and stomachs of poor and innocent children who didn't even know what was going on. Teenagers that probably hadn't even graduated and were full of so much hope and aspirations and old people who are weak and feeble and so very kind. Not every Uchiha was an evil person that deserved to die. There were people who owned shops, who had families and loved to live and Itachi completely slaughtered them all. I don't mean just blowing up the entire village like Deidara would have. He pulled out his katana and intentionally slaughtered every single individual. Of course he had help from Obito, who also had his fair share of slaughter. But i'm mad because both the manga and and the fanbase holds them with such high regards like they were amazing characters when they committed genocide. **** the adults, they are the main reasons that the Uchiha are in the position they were in. I'm thinking about the children, the fear they must have suffered before there last dying breaths.




The only thing they can save this solid fact is a small theory that maybe Itachi sparred the children and young people and carried them off to some uninhabited area. That is where Shin Uchiha came from and why he loves Itachi so much. or Maybe Obito, being the mentally insane person that he is, slaughtered and butchered all of the children and Itachi just killed the adults and his parents.


I can't even understand why the hell Sasuke forgave Itachi. To forgive such a gruesome in extremely awful crime isn't possible. I wouldn't even be able to stand the look of Itachi. WHat he did was so intolerable. He is the solo god, he was a great brother, but he was a crazy and terrible person. Sorry, but it's true. Well, it's opinion. Maybe you guys think otherwise, that slaughtering children isn't really that sick and twisted, but....who am I to judge.



THIS ISN'T A BASH THREAD! This is a deep and careful analysis of Itachi's crimes. Answer with a serious attitude.

Yeah your right! In real life it would have been the worst thing ever however we are talking about a fictional world where there lived people with out-of-this-world magic powers which can only be avoided by killing those people instead of continuing on the cycle of hatred! However still I don't get it how it could remove the curse of hatred in the long run! Look at Sarada! She already has the hatred potential! One push and idk what she would do!

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

The twist never worked. The twist was forced and Itachi putting his brother through psychological torture is still so so so f*cked beyond belief.

 

[Chie]

I already told another user that the title was more to draw in everyone attention and corrected myself into by saying that he wasn't exactly insane. But it does take a strong stomach and mental capacity to do what he did.




There'll be more threads later

Alright, go for it then. There will be more replies as well.

I don't see how it's insulting at all. I already told you that I wasn't speaking in regards to the adults, but rather the children. And if we're talking about infants, toddlers and kids then they fill up two of those three examples.

It was because you equated the adults of the Uchiha to the adults of the Holocaust (who did not cause the deaths of their own children).

It really does. My point being that killing in general is morally unjust, which is my personal belief.

I can agree with that moral belief then.
+*+Again, I'm not exactly trying to call Itachi insane either as explained above.

We perceive bravery completely differently. I don't think he's brave because he abandoned his clans side and slaughtered them instead of standing by them.

I think the opposite. Standing with people you know are wrong and reject peaceful options and opting to be slaughtered with them which leads to no hope for the Uchiha at all is cowardly. It's the easy way out and saves nothing, only brings destruction.

Like he said in today's ep "I looked at situations from both the eyes of the Uchiha clan and village. To this day, I don't know whether I was a spy to the village or the Uchiha entirely."

Fugaku also knew damn well that Itachi cared about the Uchiha and knew he saw a future for them through Sasuke. Fugaku himself knew the coup was wrong as did his wife, they just didn't have the guts to go against the clan- this caused a domino effect which was unnecessary.

It wasn't a point that i was trying to make. I said that it would be a theory that would make the facts seem less brutal.


Alright.

Okay
---

I made arguments that killing of any kind, forced, intentional and/or justified is wrong. There are people who deserved to die, I never spoke against that. But those children did not.

Everyone here believes killing in basis is wrong. That's not new.

If your point is not what you stated in the title, you admit that Itachi had justifications for what he did, then your only claim is that what he did is wrong in basis.

Alright. But that doesn't change the fact that no matter what he did, it would be wrong in basis unless he opted for a cowardly option (like running away).

This thread didn't have much of a main point to it, did it?

 

[Trúth]

The guy was a jingoistic nut-job; the kind who is indoctrinated into lapping up all the axioms of what they serve. There was nothing revolutionary or just about his or the Leaf’s actions. He killed unknowing children:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

He should have sided with his clan or used KA to dissuade Danzo, even his own father, to avert such a heinous crime. He knew Danzo had stolen Shisui’s KA eye. Yet, he still stood with the people who opposed the just cause of his clan. He was a traitor to his own people, his own parents who showered him with nothing but love.

This guy is beyond contempt.

Siding with his clan would have left him, the Uchiha clan (including those unknowing children) and countless others dead in the following war.

Using KA on Danzo would have prevented nothing, the Uchiha clan was determined to take over the village while Danzo was only determined to stop them before they could. Stopping him doesn't stop the Uchiha or what happens after.

When Madara's (a far more powerful leader of the Uchiha) interests conflicted with the rest of the clans interests they disregarded his opinion and decided to make peace with the senju clan. The idea that using KA on Fugaku would have stopped the Uchiha from attempting a coup when they were still angry and facing discrimination is nothing more than wishful thinking.

The clans cause may have been just but their method or resolving the problem was not. Destroying the peace of the village and risking a great war for their clan is not just. The just way would have been to negotiate and work with the already willing Hokage to end the Uchiha discrimination.

You can call him a traitor but the fact is the Uchiha were doomed either way and he chose the only path that would save the clan and it's name.

It's fine to hate the character but making up or twisting the facts and creating scenarios that wouldn't have worked to hate him are all pretty poor reasons to do it.

 

[Chie]

Yeah your right! In real life it would have been the worst thing ever however we are talking about a fictional world where there lived people with out-of-this-world magic powers which can only be avoided by killing those people instead of continuing on the cycle of hatred! However still I don't get it how it could remove the curse of hatred in the long run! Look at Sarada! She already has the hatred potential! One push and idk what she would do!

A Catch-22 scenario like this would not exist in real life. lol

If a leader like Fugaku in the real world couldn't control his own people, they wouldn't just go along with things. They would opt for negotiation if they were sane and if things went south with their people, they would accept it as their leadership would be meaningless in the first place. If they have no real say, what's the point?

Clans don't want to use teens as assassination tools in real life, either.

 

[Magnolius]

He was one of the most sane if not the most sane character so I'm not sure why you're describing him as "not exactly insane"

You don't see how it's insulting to compare the very real murders of millions of innocent people to the fictional mercy killing of a few dozen adults and a couple children at most who were planning on attacking a village and more than likely starting another great war?

It makes sense now, you couldn't read the story and understand it properly because you're blind.

Thread Title: Itachi was sick and twisted and deserved to die (Must Read!)

Okay.

And I suppose that you also believe that standing back and allowing the deaths of far more people than he killed is somehow more morally correct.

Sure, it obviously takes less bravery for a 13 year-old to stand against his family and clan and then kill them all to prevent a war than it does for him to stand and die with them.

Dumbass lol.

It isn't a matter of whether they deserved to die or not. They had to die.

Again

This is too much to reply to and you're completely right for the most part. I still feel the same way that I do about the subject, but I was glad to here your opinion and often found myself agreeing with a majority of your arguments. (excluding the part about me being a dumbass, I won't entertain such rudeness, unless of course it's just a reference to an anime quote like my "piece of shit" scheme).