[VS] Itachi-Sasori Vs. Kisame-Deidara

[Chīkara]

Itachi and Sasori win this easily. People bring up feats like Kirigakure no Jutsu, which would actually put team 2 in a big disadvantage, while it's true that Itachi and Sasori wouldn't be able to see Kisame the same can be said for Deidara who can't see shit, Which wouldn't give him the opportunity to use large scaled bombs since he might be able to hit Kisame with it aswell.

Now Kisame wouldn't be able to do shit while using Kirigakure no jutsu.

-> Itachi can utilize Yata mirror.
-> Itachi can burn the Chakra away with amaterasu.
-> Sasori can use Satetsu Kaihō while he's inside Susano'o.
-> Sasori can spread Doku (Poison) with Kiragakure no jutsu while Itachi hides in a Susano'o ribcage.

They can even attack Deidara in the air with long ranged Ninjutsu since Itachi is able to see him with his Sharingan.

Now once Kirigakure no jutsu is canceled Deidara gets trapped in genjutsu.

''Gentjusu is only short range and Deidara is high up in the sky thats factually impossible.''

Deidara behind C4 -> [

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] (Deidara is pretty far away) -> Sasuke noticing deidara [

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] -> Quick scan of the range [

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] -> Trapped in genjutsu [

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]

Long range genjutsu is possible and as cocky as Deidara is he will definitely get trapped in it. Itachi can than continue to kill Deidara with Amaterasu or seal him up with Totsuka.

Futhermore Kisame isn't getting past Susano'o and the duo would be way too OP for him to deal with alone.

​

​

 

[Worm]

^ Deidara isn't getting trapped in a Genjutsu. Especially since he is aware how powerful Itachi is and has devised both a Genjutsu countering ability and a Jutsu specifically made for killing him. His cockiness has only shown to be a problem against targets that are younger than him.

 

[Apêx1]

Fair enough; however what is written in the databook on Totsuka still remains as it is supported by Cannon. Previously you said this: ​

Clarify. My understanding is that you think Totsuka would not have been able to do so if Nagato's soul (or any for that matter) was not attached to the targeted body when from a factual point of view vulnerability was always a factor.​

The databook overhypes it in that particular context. If you read this part [

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] you can clearly deduce the fact that it is meant for living things. It would never refer objects as 'those' it pierces.

And you misconstrued my point. I suggested that despite Nagato's real body being dead, placing his soul into a living vessel enables Totsuka, or any other jutsu, to seal his soul and the living vessel's body (which is temporarily his) along with it.

If I may interject between what you guys are saying; your Edo Tensei argument doesn't really apply. The sword pierced the host of Nagato's soul, as Edo Tensei is used with a human sacrifice to which the soul of the person being revived is placed in. He was still sealed and the body wilted away like every other Edo Tensei does once the soul is released.

Carry on though.

Thank you for 'interjecting' between us and restating the point that I have stated twice. Very contribution.

 

[Rιver]

^ Deidara isn't getting trapped in a Genjutsu. Especially since he is aware how powerful Itachi is and has devised both a Genjutsu countering ability and a Jutsu specifically made for killing him. His cockiness has only shown to be a problem against targets that are younger than him.

Tsukuyomi though.

 

[Worm]

Tsukuyomi though.

Unless Sasori carries him into close-ish range with Deidara, he ain't catching him.

 

[Waltz]

If I may interject between what you guys are saying; your Edo Tensei argument doesn't really apply. The sword pierced the host of Nagato's soul, as Edo Tensei is used with a human sacrifice to which the soul of the person being revived is placed in. He was still sealed and the body wilted away like every other Edo Tensei does once the soul is released.

Carry on though.

Quite the contrary.​

Spoiler

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The databook overhypes it in that particular context. If you read this part [

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] you can clearly deduce the fact that it is meant for living things. It would never refer objects as 'those' it pierces.

And you misconstrued my point. I suggested that despite Nagato's real body being dead, placing his soul into a living vessel enables Totsuka, or any other jutsu, to seal his soul and the living vessel's body (which is temporarily his) along with it.

Maybe. Then again the bold could be argued as only an assertion since there lies the possibility that the referenced piece is only the parts of something written that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning. Totsuka-no-Tsurugi is a spiritual weapon attached to Itachi's Susano'o----rationally to only be used against a living opponent and thus is written in such context. Even if other attributes are within it's potential; it probably would not have been written. An example of this is it's ability to extend and retract at Itachi's will. Hardly is far-fetched reason as this would not be the only case where only certain abilities of a Jutsu are actually written within the Databook.

@Red: Alright.
​

 

[Apêx1]

Maybe. Then again the bold could be argued as only an assertion since there lies the possibility that the referenced piece is only the parts of something written that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning. Totsuka-no-Tsurugi is a spiritual weapon attached to Itachi's Susano'o----rationally to only be used against a living opponent and thus is written in such context. Even if other attributes are within it's potential; it probably would not have been written. An example of this is it's ability to extend and retract at Itachi's will. Hardly is far-fetched reason as this would not be the only case where only certain abilities of a Jutsu are actually written within the Databook.

@Red: Alright.
​

It would make no sense for Totsuka to put Water Dome into 'an eternal Genjutsu'. Yet it puts everything it seals into a Genjutsu. It really seems like a far-fetched scenario, and although there is slight potential based on the DB; it does not have the evidence nor the implications for it to be used in an actual argument. On the other hand, Totsuka's ability to extend and retract has a lot of credibility as 1. It is Kusanagi's variant and Kusanagi can both extend and retract. 2. Orochimaru would have no desire for it if its size was too large for him to wield, meaning both the sword and its gourd can alter their size to fit any situation. So there are clear implications for its capability to do so, unlike sealing non-living things which seems illogical and unsubstantiated.​

 

[Zexion~]

Is someone actually arguing if Totska can seal non living things?

 

[Forbidden Technique]

I did say to an advantageous extent; it would be out of character for Itachi to spend his chakra fueling Amaterasu to disperse the entire mist; it's unnecessary. The jutsu itself takes place quite gradually as the user has to force fore chakra into it in order to make the air more potent with water molecules. The bunshin will reach Itachi and Sasori before Kisame's mist which is being done from several meters in the air.
​

The jutsu is caused due to tiny droplets of water mingled with the users chakra being suspended in the air affecting visibility at ground level and thus Amaterasu will burn the fog and it's heat will evaporate the droplets dispersing the jutsu. Itach

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and they're unaffected by the slowly incoming mist. When those clones begin to perform hand seals, Itachi coats Sasori's Iron sand pellets (which are physically configured as dildo's) with amaterasu and they are fired at supersonic speeds into the Mizu bunshin's mouth's as they are about to perform the jutsu. As amaterasu's heat can disperse the mist, it can be used in conjunction with Iron sands properties to spread heat throughout vast areas of the location.
​

Itachi is going to spawn Amaterasu all over the ground to actively evaporate the mist; then knock out both of the Mizu Bunshins with Amaterasu coated IS..? Meanwhile, Deidara, Kisame, and the Mizu Bunshins are doing absolutely nothing? That's awfully convenient.

It takes a single handseal and a couple seconds at best to initiate the jutsu and spew out an entire lake worth of water [

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]. The Mizu Bunshins being equipped with Samehada clones (and all it's abilities) will also be able to sense out the oppositions location. There is absolutely no need to surface anywhere remotely close to Sasori and Itachi, as the AoE of this jutsu stretches out for quite a far distance... nevermind two of them being combined. Then we have Deidara and Kisame who can easily stop any efforts at knocking out the bunshins, by immediately forcing Itachi and Sasori on the defensive. Bakusui Shōha will completely engulf the Amaterasu flames, and result into even more mist. This of course, wouldn't be a problem, as Amaterasu isn't by any means evaporating an entire lake worth of water at any noteable pace. In fact, this isn't even a slight issue when the Mizu Bunshins will simply absorb the Amaterasu with Samehada. All the while, the real Kisame is still actively emitting mist, with his tailed beast level chakra reserves. All in all, this is wasted effort and chakra on Itachi's part.

So He'll be taking blind shots into the mist? Even if Kisame reveals the position of Itachi and Sasori to Deidara he still cannot see his Jutsu's location in the mist. The heat and shockwave from D's bombs will only aid to disperse the mist. Deidara would be defeating the purpose of Kisame's jutsu. Letting of C4 in the mist will never work. The Mist (which Itachi can clear with Amaterasu) is only advantageous to Kisame... even given the impossibility that C4 is dispersed before Itachi does so; the sharingan will see Deidara's chakra approaching within the fog of Kisame's charka----intel is full, so Susano'o shields. "Water and Chakra" aren't the only things which comprise the bunshin, they also have a form and are 'alive' which is supplied by Yoton's live giving energy: Poison gas will work. Totsuka seals GSB. ​

Deidara doesn't need to see his Jutsu's location in the mist. It has been demonstrated multiple times in the manga, where ninja are capable of gauging an accurate amount of distance with vision alone [

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]-[

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]-[

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]. Deidara's clay bombs are remotely controlled by him, so if Kisame reveals the oppositions location, it shouldn't be hard for Deidara to accurately direct his bombs within a close proximity. Alternatively, Kisame can simply guide Deidara's clay bombs

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. Barring C3, none of Deidara's bombs are strong enough to completely disperse the entirity of Kisame's mist. You have a good point, in regards to C4, but a simple solution to that is: Kisame will simply

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his chakra into Deidara, which would be used into forming the C4 nano-bombs. It will go completley invisible to Itachi's sharingan. Poison enters the blood-stream, and attacks the cells. Not possible with a Mizu Bunshin (assuming this is even a factor). Not that I'm even endorsing the notion of Totsuka being a viable counter, but Itachi wouldn't see the GSB due to the Hidden Mist. Why doesn't Totsuka just conveniently seal the Mist as well?

You forgot to address a Kisame enhanced C3 bomb as well, but I suppose it just get's sealed into genjutsu along with the rest of Kisame and Deidara's arsenal.

Spoiler

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That's a false notion that '"Totsuka only seals souls"'. The databook states that the katana is saturated with sealing jutsu but the souls which are sealed are placed under Genjutsu for eternity and likewise sealed away. Orochimaru's Yamata no Jutsu was a manifestation of his Chakra yet it was sealed within the sword and, Nagato's soul was attached to a host; just as Orochimaru's Yamata. Neither the 'dead host' or the 'Hydra' possessed souls yet they were sealed. An example of a Jutsu that only seals souls would be the Shiki Fujin.​

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Yamata no Jutsu is a transformation technique, and thus a physically linked extension to Orochimaru's real body. Not exactly comparable to elemental ninjutsu. Itachi had to wait until Orochimaru revealed himself, to actually pierce his soul and seal him away. If Totsuka was capable of sealing all ninjutsu, then he should of done so against Hydra, rather then waiting around for Orochimaru to surface. Also, if it was capable of doing so, then why was Orochimaru's chakra (in the form of smaller snakes) able to escape being sealed? Are we thus implying that ones soul is also capable of escaping after being peirced as well? Surely not. The mechanics behind Totsuka is being capable of sealing ones soul, along with whatever it is physically linked or attached to (ET body and Hydra), after being pierced.

@ the colored text, that is exactly my point. Elemental ninjutsu has zero correlation. It's not directly attached to the hosts soul. Shiki Fujin and everything else is irrelevant.

 

[Waltz]

Dude.

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I just expanded on why Amaterasu counters the mist; even in that impossible event water isn't engulfing anything as Amaterasu will continue to burn atop it. Kisame's 2 choices according to your strategy is either he waits until his Bunshin have performed their jutsu to utilize their water source for the mist in which case they'll receive dildo shaped Satetsu pellets moving at supersonic speeds down their eso****us; concentrating specifically on the point that Bakusui Shōha forces kisame to regurgitate a

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According to you OP the distance is 400m and given the fact that Satetsu's acceleration breaches the sound barrier [

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] which happenes to be 340.29m/s---even if Kisame's bunshin's try this at the beginning of the battle they'll still deepthroat Sasori's Iron. His second failed option is to expel the mist from his mouth in which case Itachi fires a few clumps[

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] onto Sasori's sand and he fires it right towards Kisame's mouth as he begins performing his

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and the flames will burn what ever mist he's released within the 1.1 or less second far and as for kisame himself, the supersonic Iron pellets will enter his oral aperture; crush his esophagus, cervical spine and make way into his brain and kill him. In all honesty, ForbiddenTechnique, both of the aforementioned strategy's can be executed simultaneously so your 'bunshin route' will not work. Deidara vs Healthy Itachi and Sasori is what remains and is not even worth conversation. ​

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Nothing but silliness.

 

[Worm]

You know what's silly? My lack of membership in the Kool Kidz Lord Pissame fanclub. Despite you and Billy talking shit, I believe I am the biggest and most worthy Pissame follower here, smh.

Did you homosexuals even see my Pissame blow up doll? Bet you don't have one.

 

[Hyden]

Been following your debate and though Waltz has a most comical way of wording his strategy Satetsu Shigure did break the sound barrier though so it still applies. The Databook even says this:

Iron Sand* Drizzle (砂鉄時雨, Satetsu Shigure)
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Offensive, All ranges
Users: Sasori, Sandaime Kazekage

This pitch-black, incessant rain is a prologue wielding power over life and death~~

Going into the minutest details, this mass adapts to the circumstances

[picture of Sasori and the Sandaime Kazekage puppet being surrounded by Iron Sand bullets]
[picture of the Iron Sand bullets hitting their target]
←↑The Iron Sand, suspended in mid-air, is changed into solid shapes in an instant. If the enemy is a moment too late in judging the situation, it will already be impossible for them to escape~~!!

This gunshot-like attack uses Iron Sand, hardened into microscopic grains, to attack simultaneously across a vast range. The bullets are so fast, they're difficult to see. From the moment the user has finished preparing the attack, evading it will be extremely difficult...!! Furthermore, the user can also use an attack pattern where the Iron Sand bullets are shaped into sharp needles, increasing their ability wound or kill the enemy....

 

[Rιver]

Itachi is going to spawn Amaterasu all over the ground to actively evaporate the mist; then knock out both of the Mizu Bunshins with Amaterasu coated IS..? Meanwhile, Deidara, Kisame, and the Mizu Bunshins are doing absolutely nothing? That's awfully convenient.

It takes a single handseal and a couple seconds at best to initiate the jutsu and spew out an entire lake worth of water [

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]. The Mizu Bunshins being equipped with Samehada clones (and all it's abilities) will also be able to sense out the oppositions location. There is absolutely no need to surface anywhere remotely close to Sasori and Itachi, as the AoE of this jutsu stretches out for quite a far distance... nevermind two of them being combined. Then we have Deidara and Kisame who can easily stop any efforts at knocking out the bunshins, by immediately forcing Itachi and Sasori on the defensive. Bakusui Shōha will completely engulf the Amaterasu flames, and result into even more mist. This of course, wouldn't be a problem, as Amaterasu isn't by any means evaporating an entire lake worth of water at any noteable pace. In fact, this isn't even a slight issue when the Mizu Bunshins will simply absorb the Amaterasu with Samehada. All the while, the real Kisame is still actively emitting mist, with his tailed beast level chakra reserves. All in all, this is wasted effort and chakra on Itachi's part.



Deidara doesn't need to see his Jutsu's location in the mist. It has been demonstrated multiple times in the manga, where ninja are capable of gauging an accurate amount of distance with vision alone [

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]-[

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]-[

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]. Deidara's clay bombs are remotely controlled by him, so if Kisame reveals the oppositions location, it shouldn't be hard for Deidara to accurately direct his bombs within a close proximity. Alternatively, Kisame can simply guide Deidara's clay bombs

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. Barring C3, none of Deidara's bombs are strong enough to completely disperse the entirity of Kisame's mist. You have a good point, in regards to C4, but a simple solution to that is: Kisame will simply

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his chakra into Deidara, which would be used into forming the C4 nano-bombs. It will go completley invisible to Itachi's sharingan. Poison enters the blood-stream, and attacks the cells. Not possible with a Mizu Bunshin (assuming this is even a factor). Not that I'm even endorsing the notion of Totsuka being a viable counter, but Itachi wouldn't see the GSB due to the Hidden Mist. Why doesn't Totsuka just conveniently seal the Mist as well?

You forgot to address a Kisame enhanced C3 bomb as well, but I suppose it just get's sealed into genjutsu along with the rest of Kisame and Deidara's arsenal.



Yamata no Jutsu is a transformation technique, and thus a physically linked extension to Orochimaru's real body. Not exactly comparable to elemental ninjutsu. Itachi had to wait until Orochimaru revealed himself, to actually pierce his soul and seal him away. If Totsuka was capable of sealing all ninjutsu, then he should of done so against Hydra, rather then waiting around for Orochimaru to surface. Also, if it was capable of doing so, then why was Orochimaru's chakra (in the form of smaller snakes) able to escape being sealed? Are we thus implying that ones soul is also capable of escaping after being peirced as well? Surely not. The mechanics behind Totsuka is being capable of sealing ones soul, along with whatever it is physically linked or attached to (ET body and Hydra), after being pierced.

@ the colored text, that is exactly my point. Elemental ninjutsu has zero correlation. It's not directly attached to the hosts soul. Shiki Fujin and everything else is irrelevant.

Since when has more chakra meant enhanced explosion in Deidaras case?

 

[KCN]

Since when has more chakra meant enhanced explosion in Deidaras case?

He's right. Refer to when Sasuke got behind Deidara and Deidara countered by tossing C1 bombs directly behind him seemingly exploding in Sasuke's face. When Tobi asked how he survived Deidara replied with something along the lines of "I was only using C1 level chakra".

 

[Rιver]

He's right. Refer to when Sasuke got behind Deidara and Deidara countered by tossing C1 bombs directly behind him seemingly exploding in Sasuke's face. When Tobi asked how he survived Deidara replied with something along the lines of "I was only using C1 level chakra".

Because they are different types. By your logic, assuming C1 is the smallest and C4 biggest, that would mean C4 > C3 in terms of destruction capabilities. But we've already witnessed C3 to be the biggest and strongest bomb he has ever created. So no it's not like that.

 

[DrProof]

Lol. Amaterasu burning on the mist? What.

 

[KCN]

Because they are different types. By your logic, assuming C1 is the smallest and C4 biggest, that would mean C4 > C3 in terms of destruction capabilities. But we've already witnessed C3 to be the biggest and strongest bomb he has ever created. So no it's not like that.

Who said Deidara's following a strict sequence? C4 isn't the biggest bomb, but it has the largest AoE as it travels and is by far the most dangerous out of all of them which at least follows the pattern of C1 > 2 > 3 > 4. C3 has always been overrated as a singular bomb, Gaara blocked it with this dome [

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] (check the smoke formation it's even smaller than it) but people like to say it would of obliterated the entire Suna.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

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The differences in C-1 - C-3 is literally just the level of chakra Deidara puts in them. If he has some Jinchuuriki or tailless tailed beast with methods of sending chakra to his allies, I don't see a reason why he couldn't expand more chakra per bomb to make them more deadly

 

[KCN]

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The differences in C-1 - C-3 is literally just the level of chakra Deidara puts in them. If he has some Jinchuuriki or tailless tailed beast with methods of sending chakra to his allies, I don't see a reason why he couldn't expand more chakra per bomb to make them more deadly

This explains it better than I ever could. DB fax. Discussion over.