Is sarutobi equally to blame for the Uchiha Genocide

[Orochimagus]

Oh and Harishima guy...The statue thing can simply he used as a basis on which side of Itachi his clan will see. The calm, caring side, or Asura's wrath. Either way, those statues represent the Uchiha clan if you notice from...

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[AWSUM SID]

First of all do you even know if im a kid?? z

And also, Coup is not a bad decision.. I can agree that they probably should've went to the feudal lord..

Its basically what itachi's dad told Itachi when he was about to kill them. They just didn't think the same way. Uchiha knew how to run a village they weren't your average clan that was trying to take over..ok. When they felt Hashirama was best to lead they let him lead same for the other Hokages.. But Konoha took it too far.. and after Sarutobi came back from retirement He lost his decisiveness.

You stated what Danzo did was for Konoha.. probably true.. but he has also let konoha get invaded and not anything about it.. Hes also worked with the enemy..just to become Hokage.. THIS reminds me of a another man called Uchiha madara.. Who also believed in the same thing Danzo believed in..Get rid of whichever challenges your rule.. Madara did alot to protect konoha too..

Tsunade actually set those 2 geezers up straight. (when she defied them about naruto and told them to stick to their roles).

the uchiha massacre cannot be justified.. Im pretty sure you have read the current chapters with the Talk between Danzo and Itachi..

Danzo himself stated that it didn't matter if there was a war or not, but when the uchiha start a coup they will be eliminated.

and also idk where you got "demise of the village".. cause Uchiha loved the village more then Danzo..

you may have grown up but you are currently thinking like a kid.
I never said Uchiha madara was bad. I think he was doing what was right for Konoha and his clan in his own way. The Uchiha clan were thinking about themselves. How would a coup benefit the village?? The whole foundations would have been shaken. Orochimaru and some handful of sand shinobi almost destroyed Konoha if you remember. Think what the Uchiha would have done. Why stage a coup?? They could have defected from the village.
If you think about it, killing is never justified. But this is the shinobi/naruto world. Killing is always justified in one way or the other. The talks between Danzo and Itachi showed that Danzo really did in-fact love the village. He could have easily formed a pact with the Uchiha where he would have been made hokage if he helped the Uchiha. The options that Danzo laid forward were the only ones available at that time. Itachi's dad was the leader of the uchiha and leader of the police force. Instead of maintaining law and order he was planning a coup. If anything, the 4 elders felt betrayed. Hiruzen called them brothers of war or something but now the uchiha were about to stab them on the back.
btw Hiruzen lost his decisiveness when he let orochimaru escape the first time. no one can be blamed for the genocide. Its just one of those events where both parties believe themselves to be correct.

 

[Bright Master]

These wherew danzos orders I think, Right?

 

[KingHashirama]

you may have grown up but you are currently thinking like a kid.
I never said Uchiha madara was bad. I think he was doing what was right for Konoha and his clan in his own way. The Uchiha clan were thinking about themselves. How would a coup benefit the village?? The whole foundations would have been shaken. Orochimaru and some handful of sand shinobi almost destroyed Konoha if you remember. Think what the Uchiha would have done. Why stage a coup?? They could have defected from the village.
If you think about it, killing is never justified. But this is the shinobi/naruto world. Killing is always justified in one way or the other. The talks between Danzo and Itachi showed that Danzo really did in-fact love the village. He could have easily formed a pact with the Uchiha where he would have been made hokage if he helped the Uchiha. The options that Danzo laid forward were the only ones available at that time. Itachi's dad was the leader of the uchiha and leader of the police force. Instead of maintaining law and order he was planning a coup. If anything, the 4 elders felt betrayed. Hiruzen called them brothers of war or something but now the uchiha were about to stab them on the back.
btw Hiruzen lost his decisiveness when he let orochimaru escape the first time. no one can be blamed for the genocide. Its just one of those events where both parties believe themselves to be correct.

the Sand village attack is a bad example since that a whole different village. Not a single clan. Also they were attacking the village.. Yet Uchiha live in the village. Also, "Uchiha clan were thinking about themselves".. well they can't think about themselves.. or how to get rid of the segregation.. ?? Danzo was thinking about himself.. He didn't listen to the hokage, who probably should've called the feudal lord.

Also, my thinking is based on Washington's (first US president) and Hashirama's

And hey i agree the uchiha shouldn't have started thinking a coup.. But again this is their village.. They have right. People like Danzo come after.. UCHIHA PLANED A COUP.. to change the Goverment of konoha.. NOT TO KILL.

Now again this was already discussed between Danzo and itachi.. Even if the coup hadn't lead to war.. the uchiha would still have been elminated.. The leaders of Konoha at that time were horrible.. (Tsunade is actually more decisive, excluding the sasuke thing which was due to naruto's fault of course).

Also, Itachi's dad had already knew that Itachi joined them.. And saying those were the only options is a big flaw. cause i can name more.. He only gave itachi those options so he would eliminate the uchiha clan. Sarutobi was gonna talk to his "Brothers in arms".. so im assuming they still hadn't talked. And coup is not always a bad thing.. Especially when you have stubborn old people.

 

[KingHashirama]

it's really far from reality that Danzo can be called a hero. The only basis of yours here to tell Sarutobi is equally to blame for the Uchiha's massacre is not punishing Danzo. Not punishing Danzo by Sarutobi is actually hiding the real truth for Uchiha's clan massacre. If Sarutobi jailed or punished Danzo, the village will ask what's his sin, and letting the people know what Uchiha's clan plan is really a big issue. they might agree to Danzo's and that will be a bigger issue. Cause even all the jonin and chunin don't have idea why Itachi did it. But sure when Sarutobi found out that Itachi is on the move, surely he will stop him. Cause until in the last minute Sarutobi stands for not killing the Uchiha. He really stands on talking to them. It's just Danzo really don't like Sarutobi because he's his rival on the Hokage position. If Sarutobi convince the Uchiha's, that will solidify his Hokage position and Danzo will really will be out of chance to become Hokage. Don't forget, it's his Dream!!!

Sarutobi really has the Leadership ability. Only a person with Leadership type of thinking can understand the true leadership. Coup is the way of foolish people.

Itach's dad was proud of him. They may don't like it but they just don't have the guts to oppose their clan.

Think now! Who really is to blame to the Uchiha's massacre?

ok im gonna start with the worst statement you wrote "Coup is the way of foolish people" UH NO. Itachi's dad said he was proud of itachi because he was a gentle child.. But even he said that him and itachi tought differently.

Sarutobi lost his touch.. And im not just saying he could have punished Danzo after.. But HE KNEW how danzo worked.. Danzo really had no point being in their goverment.. Uchiha Massacre one of Sarutobi's mistakes just like him letting Oro go ..... (oro also killed alot of leaf shinobi.. but Sarutobi let him go, it doesn't matter whether he was his student).

And btw Sarutobi actually never thought about Stabbing uchiha on the back.. BUT AS A HOKAGE HE COULD HAVE DONE MORE. Uchiha are here to blame.. DANZO AND ITACHI take more blame then anyone else.. BUT sarutobi as the hokage also takes blame.. If there was to be a genocide in America.. obama will automatically take the blame.

Again Danzo and Sarutobi and ITACHI.. Saw the coup as a bad thing.. UCHIHA didn't.. It was ITACHI's wish to not let anyone know what had happened.. BUT even if they had told the konoha people.. The leaders would have been ashamed right at the moment. Because uchiha's were friends of others to.. They were only going to turn the goverment which THEY helped made..

 

[KingHashirama]

Oh and Harishima guy...The statue thing can simply he used as a basis on which side of Itachi his clan will see. The calm, caring side, or Asura's wrath. Either way, those statues represent the Uchiha clan if you notice from...

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The statues are repreasented for konoha and uchiha.. If he had picked the uchiha, he would have been on the buddha side.. BUT the choice for KONOHA was represented by Asura.. And that can be justified.. Cause konoha in no way in hell was a "peacefull", "kind", "loving" village at that time

I'm in the minority, in that I respect both Danzo and Hiruzen's actions in the whole situation. I completely disagree with the op. Hell in fact, you seem quite dense op.... especially with all the great arguments and facts thrown against you.

Wait i'm lost here who is "op"??

Tobirama set the police district as an act of good faith. The Uchiha didn't give a damn about the village, but more-so their injured pride. Their pride was enough to merit civil war and the dangers that would come to the Leaf because of that. Such an extreme act would merit the extreme measures Danzo took. Heck, these people could not even govern themselves properly. They abused Izanagi and they had to punish EACH OTHER. Tobirama and Hiruzen had a tough issue at hand.

Uchiha didn't give a damn about the village??? really.. Obito.. Really.. Itachi.. Shisui.. Fugaku.. Sarutobi's friend next to him when he was announced hokage by the Second.. Hell even the third called them "Comrades".

Uchiha didn't give a damn about their pride...They gave it away when they signed the treaty and let hashirama become the first hokage..

And "civil war".. uh mate.. plans were made to eliminate the uchiha even if their wasn't a civil war.

Cause if a uchiha had come in power or Made negotiations with Sarutobi. Danzo's spot for Hokage would have been 0 percent chances.

Killing innocent kids and elderly cannot be justified.. And im even saying it was itachi's fault to.. But he did redeem himself so its ok

 

[KingHashirama]

THIS THREAD HAS OFFICIALLY ENDED xD. Thank you all for great points and arguements

 

[Dead Ninja]

Wait i'm lost here who is "op"??

"Original poster", that's what it means, i'm referring to you.

 

[Orochimagus]

Mate. You're missing the point. The Uchiha cared more about their segregation (Which is arguable since they saw themselves as above others and kept their genes to themselves) than the village because they were willing to start a civil war which would endanger the entire village to other countries. Trying a coup was the wrong way to deal with the issue, and it was extremist. Let's see...Uchiha honor, or the lives of Uchiha, the rest of village put in severe risk...I think swallowing their pride is less harmful than all those deaths they planned to bring.

The names you mentioned were the minority. If a coup was at hand, this means that over half the Uchiha were going to be in on it. As such, they cared more about their little coup than they did about the village.

The third called them comrades, which means they had the respect of many of the villagers who looked UP TO THEM. What kind of comrades plan a coup? Also...Notice the only story of segregation you get from Tobi? We have not seen the leaf's side on things. If anything, how the elders react to this news signifies they felt betrayed by the Uchiha.

The Uchiha didn't give Harishima leadership due to good faith or their pride. They did so because Harishima kicked Madara's ass, and even after he became Hokage that way, Madara still came back later with Kurama. They lost their pride due to DEFEAT, and not by choice.

The civil war issue...Simply by PLANNING a coup in ANY country you get eliminated. Try to map out a terrorist attack on the US, and blog about it with your friends. See if you do not end up in jail for life. The Uchiha HAD to be eliminated for the mere purpose of planning such a thing. Soft Sarutobi might have been able to save them if he got lucky, but Danzo beat him to the punch.

The Uchiha's coup would have led to the death of innocent children on both sides, so you just invalidated everything you said. The coup was not justified. Itachi cannot redeem all those murders by saving all the lives he did by ending Edo, or being sorry. Again, if murder cannot be justified, it cannot be REDEEMED.

 

[TJ0001]

hiruzen wanted to compromise. he wasnt aware of the genocide plan danzou cooked up until it happened right? and by that time it was too late.

 

[Orochimagus]

That much is rather clear, TJ0001. Hiruzen was really an adorable fool. He let Orochimaru get away even after murdering and experimenting on his own village. He was willing to let the third Kazekage off scott-free after they had invaded the leaf, and already killed his right hand man. Of course he was gonna do his best to have the leaf spare the lives of the Uchiha.

With this it is clear that this was does without his consent. How people can blame this Naruto-like fool (Which is his charm) is beyond me. Deluded.

 

[KingHashirama]

hiruzen wanted to compromise. he wasnt aware of the genocide plan danzou cooked up until it happened right? and by that time it was too late.

But only problem is he could have done more as a hokage.. and why let Danzo be part of the head goverment.. lol

Mate. You're missing the point. The Uchiha cared more about their segregation (Which is arguable since they saw themselves as above others and kept their genes to themselves) than the village because they were willing to start a civil war which would endanger the entire village to other countries. Trying a coup was the wrong way to deal with the issue, and it was extremist. Let's see...Uchiha honor, or the lives of Uchiha, the rest of village put in severe risk...I think swallowing their pride is less harmful than all those deaths they planned to bring.

The names you mentioned were the minority. If a coup was at hand, this means that over half the Uchiha were going to be in on it. As such, they cared more about their little coup than they did about the village.

The third called them comrades, which means they had the respect of many of the villagers who looked UP TO THEM. What kind of comrades plan a coup? Also...Notice the only story of segregation you get from Tobi? We have not seen the leaf's side on things. If anything, how the elders react to this news signifies they felt betrayed by the Uchiha.

The Uchiha didn't give Harishima leadership due to good faith or their pride. They did so because Harishima kicked Madara's ass, and even after he became Hokage that way, Madara still came back later with Kurama. They lost their pride due to DEFEAT, and not by choice.

The civil war issue...Simply by PLANNING a coup in ANY country you get eliminated. Try to map out a terrorist attack on the US, and blog about it with your friends. See if you do not end up in jail for life. The Uchiha HAD to be eliminated for the mere purpose of planning such a thing. Soft Sarutobi might have been able to save them if he got lucky, but Danzo beat him to the punch.

The Uchiha's coup would have led to the death of innocent children on both sides, so you just invalidated everything you said. The coup was not justified. Itachi cannot redeem all those murders by saving all the lives he did by ending Edo, or being sorry. Again, if murder cannot be justified, it cannot be REDEEMED.

"The Uchiha's coup would have led to the death of innocent children on both sides, so you just invalidated everything you said." this mere quote is wrong thinking by you.. AGAIN LIKE ITACHI'S DAD TOLD ITACHI... THEY THINK DIFFERENTLY. UCHIHA ARE NOT MONSTERS... BUT KONOHA SHINOBI THEY DID MORE FOR THE VILLAGE THEN DANZO AND SARUTOBI COMBINED. You think the danzo way.... i think the more equality way.. There was a coupd'etat in the movie Vfor Vendetta. Did you see any kids getting killed?? no its basically a protest against the goverment for the wrongs they have done. (and the leaf village is full of them).

They gave hashirama due to good pride.. Why?? because no man could challenge hashirama.. And who would you want as your hokage.. a blood thirsty dude or a Loving and caring guy. Also, Uchiha didn't loose their pride because madara lost.. MADARA LEFT THE DAMN UCHIHA. HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM...Uchiha still had their pride.. They didn't loose it. They wanted hashirama.. HASHIRAMA QUIT BEING A SENJU "dog". instead he devoted his life to the whole village. And also the only reason hashirama was the senju leader is also because he kicked everyone's ass. lol.

"They saw themselves above other genes" are you kidding me?? Apparently people like Danzo, Sarutobi, And the other 2 geezers saw themselves higher then the uchiha and everyone in the village. (i putted sarutobi because it was due to him that their was segregation.)


Also again do yo know what a coup is for??? It is to overturn the running Goverment, which segregated people and stole a kid's eye. Your judging the Uchiha by how madara was.. not as faithful Konoha ninja.. And apparently you think just cause the Uchiha were gonna coup they putted themselves above the village.. uh no.. At that time no other clan was being segregated besides the uchiha. So of course they are gonna be the only ones to coup.

Just because someone coups does not mean they are putting themselves above the village. IF american goverment was segregating and I a loyal american led a coup, it would not mean im putting myself above the country.. But instead im trying to change it.



how can people blame a Naruto like dude ?? because he was being naive and lazy.. Sorry mate Even Naruto isn't that Naive and lazy.

 

[KingHashirama]

Great arguments everyone thank you for posting ^.^ =]