Lana Del Taka
Active member
Wow, and i actually thought Kabuto was overrated.
OT: with edos, no diff. Without edos, med- high diff.
OT: with edos, no diff. Without edos, med- high diff.
How easily can DSM Kabuto beat KM Naruto
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FourthLegacy
Active member
I wonder if it's possible for KCM and SM Naruto wowowow that'd be OP.
But cmon Naruto took on The Rinnegan with SM and im pretty sure that the KCM is a step up from the SM, so im gonna say Naruto would win mid-high diffuculty.
But cmon Naruto took on The Rinnegan with SM and im pretty sure that the KCM is a step up from the SM, so im gonna say Naruto would win mid-high diffuculty.
Brother Numpsay
Active member
Naruto didn't use his sight, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't need his hears to do it either. The point is White Rage's sound hurts the opponent. To simplify what it does is imagine getting tasered.
Thanks for clearing that up but comparing 2 tails to 4 tail naruto doesn't make sense to compare to be honest. Kakashi lightening chain was able to cut all of the v2 buijuu's hands. Kabuto scalpel chakra works differently too. With Sage mode enhance Naruto cannot simply tank, touch or get cut by it.
That is true, I was merely talking about Kabuto in defense only. I should of brought up being offense and defense at play, sorry. Will bring up offense soon.
Ok I see what you were saying. The post you have soon me that Kabuto liquifies when near blood result. See how all the blood/damage just reforms into water? He is still safe and can recover due to rapid healing.
You must not releiase that Kabuto, having Juugo's DNA, grants him to constantly gather natural energy. Kabuto chakra replenish continually (Basically unlimited)
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Going offense soon. Naruto is gonna be in trouble XD
Edit: GAHH, I suck
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white rage gives the opponent pain, but even in pain, naruto still can sense kabuto and use chakra arms to fend him off i still don't see why that would not counter white rage.
Nothing implied that there was a significant power gap between the V2 jinchurikis, and unlike KN4 Naruto's claw attack, the 2 tail's attack is an actual named attack which means it is very powerful. Kakashi's lightning chain was able to cut the raw chakra arms of the V2 jinks, but when up against the main body and cloak, we see that even a direct hit from raikiri does nothing. So the point still stands, based on the feats, Kabuto's chakra scalpel is not doing much to KCM Naruto's defenses.
brotherin, RnY was the only reason he tanked it. RnY exponentially increases his durability, we see
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,
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. We see that RnY is so powerful it repels Sasuke's chidori blade that can
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. Finally we see that when sandaime raikage gets hit without his RnY up,
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than he does from FRS which is so powerful it amazes her.So it's crystal clear that had he not had the RnY up, he would have been obliterated by FRS.
The manga explicitly stated that against Kakuzu
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and SM did not only grant him the ability to throw it, it allowed him to complete the technique. We see that when he first uses it in SM the technique isn't even complete as
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however after extensive training and perfecting the technique, with sage mode,
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.The scan in no way showed the rasengan "pushing it out" that makes zero sense. The scan explicitly showed naruto about to shatter the rod with a rasengan, and the rasengan was so powerful that it began to destroy the rod before it even made contact with it. Later, we see
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. Kimimaro's bones were not breaking chakra enhanced steel weapons, if you look at the scan the steel weapons were actually cutting into kimi's bones.okay
no, i've shown you that a normal rasengan easily breaks substances at least 3 times more durable than solid steel. Neiji's juuken was breaking the armor, and the juuken was never ever once hyped or implied to be able to break solid steel or be anywhere near the power of a rasengan. FRS is just tiers beyond tiers more powerful than a rasengan, the armor will provide zero protection from the wind sphere, and Karins healing will do nothing against a destroyed chakra network.
there are 2 reasons suigetsu survived the TBB:
1) he was in a lake which massively increases his hydrification ability
2) the TBB merely passed through him the actual explosion occured a mile behind him
had he been on land or had the bomb actually exploded on him he would not be alive right now.
FRS has some significant advantages over TBB, for one it is far more damage dense than that attack and 2 even if you survive it, youre chakra network will be messed up and no healing can save you from that.
but if kabuto takes a FRS before he can liquify he pretty much dies as only sandaime raikage with his RnY on can survive that attack and even then his chakra network gets messed up.
natural energy might be infinite, however sage chakra is created by combining natural energy with the users own chakra, thus the amount of sage chakra kabuto can make is limited by the amount of chakra he himself has. So his sage chakra is not unlimited
heh.
Brother Numpsay
Active member
Brother Numpsay
Active member
I mention it earlier: Although it is a poor counter on Naruto's behalf, this is honestly the best thing Naruto can do. Lets just hope he can even stabilize and maintain a form to do it, since White Rage can help prevent opponents mold chakra.
Unfortunately that move was not impressive of an attack nor with v2 seven tail's bug bite. Kabuto's scaple feats does far more damage then those attacks that did to Naruto. Naruto's cloak is not a safe house, by feat.
If you read the chapter carefully the way to defeat him was with power wind style inorder to counter RnY. That's why Naruto jumped in, and tired his. He had successfully counter it but his iron body is what made him get up and ready to fight still. My main focus about this argument is that Kimmaro's bones has impressive durability that can be too considering that Naruto's wind style can completely pierce an iron body like 3rd.
IT's possible that RnY Reduced that attack but Wind is completely inferior to lightening, so how much was reducted is questionable
I am enlightening. Thanks for informing me.
It was actually, look carefully a Roshi's skin, being pushed out. But anyway I still don't see comparing the rods to Kimi's bones or 3rd Raikage since we have no base of how durable the rods are (We don't even know what type of metal it is . We know it takes like 3 steel medical scalpels to sucesscully cut it. But Kimi's bones and 3rd Steel body is more impressive.
Same reply as above but I would like to add that Neji's did not break the armor. Kidomaru was shedding them out and he did it at will. My argument still stands base it protecting the wind spiking his cells(only).
Good point. But Wind Rasegan doesn't evaporate their opponents.
Damage more dense? I'm pretty sure it is not. I still don't see how chakra network being cut effects Kabuto when he can regenerate from it due to Karin. Tsunade disagree with you. And of course Kabuto (Which I will elaborate later)
Kabuto liquify the damage he has taken. Whatever that is damage converts to water even cells:
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Everything that was cut right their, the cells from it are destroyed, then they can instantly be recover:
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We don't need to make an argument of whos first wins the counter, that network gets destroyed before liquifying. Once something is destroy it converts. Since water has no celluar
Chakra will never be a problem regardless.
heh.[/QUOTE]
Offense in play:
We have seen how dangerous DSM Kabuto is even without (Edo). It did a jutsu that breaks all rules in order to stop this monster. Kabuto has attack that will soon take down a dangerous opponent like Naruto, as he have shown:
First, The Sound 5 jutsu:
All though these characters aren't strong now compare to Part II series (and Naruto improvements) their jutsu is what made them still dangerous, if putted into good use. Kabuto is aware of this and used their DNA to grant him their abilities to defeat any strong opponent he will be bound to fight in Part II series.
(I want to make this statement clear because I am expecting counters, from Part I characters, that could possibly put these jutsu's to shame and overlooked.)
1. Spider Web jutsu: Making DSM Kabuto now the wilder: With this ability he is able to spread a wide area of powerful webs. This webs aren't cut by normal means. It took one of the strongest attack (Ammy, 2 if may I add) the successfully damage this web. What this tech can do to Naruto is successfully trapping him or his clones running around. Kabuto to reproduce as much as he want to throw them anywhere he desires. Kabuto's intelligence and senses skills will make him choose the best spots to launch them, in a given location.
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2. Demonic Flute: Phantom Sound Chains: I just want to make it clear that this tech is a game breaker to anyone without an assist for genjutsu breaker. You already counter this but to make it clear only any Naruto's tier that is lower the BM will be screwed, because thats when Kurama works together. That means even KCM. But since this a vs of BM Naruto this jutsu will be counter.
3. Jirobo's Abilities (Earth Techs): Having his DNA had grant access to all of Jirobo techs. Jirobo's tech revolve around Earth tech.
3a. Using Earth Shore: can shift the ground plates for his desire on Naruto
3b. Using Earth Barrier: can help trap and absorb chakra from Naruto (With DSM improvements will be little difficult to get out. And also considering pure chakra base move useless)
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4. Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation- This tech makes the location/battle field attack for him. Using this tech would make Naruto's clone useless in a given scenario.
5. Sage Art: White Rage- Due to his intense sound, Naruto if force but to feel the pain, while his whole body is being taserd. Naruto is basically open for any other attack.
(Your counter: Charka arms. Although this is a poor counter in Naruto's situation, that is honestly the best thing he could do. Lets hope he can mold chakra properly to do it since this jutsu does makes that happen. But for me it's unlikely at best.)
Conclusion: As you might be aware reading this is that Kabuto's primary attacks are Trap Base. Naruto would be bound to MAYBE countering them all individually but what makes DSM deadly is using them as combinations. Example would be #1 combine #3. Web bind with maybe Earth Barrier, as a given example. Naruto is one of the strongest characters but unoriginality all his current tiers have a time limit on his head of how long he could use it. His opponent bear no limits. So with this I'll give this to Kabuto High Diff.
(Offense mode done)
Edit: I'll counter your previous post later
first off EjBlack, I noticed that your post is basically a resume post which is defined by just listing abilities kabuto has and what they can do. Rather than that, an offensive mode post would be listing abilities kabuto can do, and listing how naruto counters those abilities. that's basically what we've been doing earlier in this thread.
In this thread, Kabuto is going to be going up against multiple KCM clones each which have Ei level speed, super durability, KCM Naruto's sensing, can spam high level attacks like guided FRS that Sandaime raikage can't even avoid, can use chakra arms have minato-level reactions, and have tailed beats level chakra.
Kabuto is not going to be able to go on the offensive in this fight at all as a FRS not only will kill him even if he is hyrodlized (since it vaporizes its target unless they are sandaime raikage with RnY up) but even if he survives (which he won't) his chakra network will be messed up and he will no longer be able to use any jutsu or move for that matter (since chakra is required to move). Naruto only has to land 1 FRS on kabuto, and he has multiple clones out trying to do this each of which is using chakra arms to guide FRS and redirect it if it misses him which is something that a speedster like sandaime raikage could not avoid. Of course there's always the fact that Kabuto can't dodge naruto's flash shunshin and thus Naruto could end the match at any time by just flash shunshining a FRS into him.
We've seen in this post that KCM Naruto has easy counters to all of Kabuto's jutsu, and thus I think that KCM Naruto wins this fight with low difficulty as he would only need a couple of KCM clones to win.
Now obviously this does not make Kabuto weak, it's more like KCM Naruto is really underrated as a single one of his KCM clones has the feats to beat any of the gokage and any of the past edo kages (if they were alive) 1 vs 1.
Also, if you read the war arc, you would see just how powerful his KCM cloak actually is. Naruto took one of the if not THE strongest physical blow we've seen in the manga right to his face and was unharmed, he was not even damaged by nagato's giant shinra tensei. KCM Naruto's other feats just further back up the fact that the feat I showed you he has.
Kimi's bones were being cut by chakra flow swords while Sasuke's chakra flow sword was easily repelled by Ei's raiton shield. Then sasuke was able to pierce Ei's shield and a bit into his skin with chidori. Chidori = rasengan, so Chidori = Rasengan >>> chakra flow sword > Kimimaro's bones. Thus rasengan does destroy kimimaros bones.
And for the last time, there is absolutely no healing from a chakra network being cut, tsunade absolutely does not disagree with me, she's actually the one who made the statement that a person can't heal from that kind of damage. If Kabuto's chakra network is damaged, he can't even liquify that damaged part as hydrification requires chakra.
the chakra webs have been canonicall cut by neiji's expelling pure chakra from his points on his body and by creating tiny needle like chakra blades with his fingers. Naruto's FRS and rasengan both basically work like that as one is pure grinding shakra and the other consists of countless chakra needles. Therefore I don't think the spider webs would be an issue for naruto at all.
it's not just BM Naruto, any form of naruto that is friendly with kurama fullfills the requirements of partner method and thus KCM Naruto is easily snapped out of this technique.
this is true, however kabuto needs to be stationary with jirobo's arms on the ground to do any of his techniques, thus he is wide open to getting ended by a guided FRS while doing so. And rasengans bust any construct that jirobo can create, and jirobo has not done any earthbending that would make naruto fall over.
not really, this technique was defeated by amaterasu which means if the landscape receives damage or is "killed" it will revert. Thus a FRS which canonically creates multi-mountain level destruction would suffice in defeating this technique. And once again the bad thing about this technique is that kabuto has to have his hands on the ground while performing this.
Chakra arms are not a poor counter in naruto's situation as they are activated by mere thought and itachi canonically has countered kabuto's attack withi a susanoo arm. We've seen during his training that Naruto is able to use chakra arms that come close to the size of susanoo arms. That with his sensing and ability to create rasengans while his hands are being burnt by lava is more than enough to counter kabuto's attempts at attacking him during the techniques duration.
KCM Naruto does not really have a time limit, Kurama stated that just holding his KCM cloak was squandering his chakra, andhe has spammed the mode for over 12 hours, then split his chakra into 13 (which multiplies the chakra drainage by 13) and then spammed it for a couple of hours then finally a single clone of his reached the battlefield and used things like guided FRS and a bijuurasengan.
In this thread, Kabuto is going to be going up against multiple KCM clones each which have Ei level speed, super durability, KCM Naruto's sensing, can spam high level attacks like guided FRS that Sandaime raikage can't even avoid, can use chakra arms have minato-level reactions, and have tailed beats level chakra.
Kabuto is not going to be able to go on the offensive in this fight at all as a FRS not only will kill him even if he is hyrodlized (since it vaporizes its target unless they are sandaime raikage with RnY up) but even if he survives (which he won't) his chakra network will be messed up and he will no longer be able to use any jutsu or move for that matter (since chakra is required to move). Naruto only has to land 1 FRS on kabuto, and he has multiple clones out trying to do this each of which is using chakra arms to guide FRS and redirect it if it misses him which is something that a speedster like sandaime raikage could not avoid. Of course there's always the fact that Kabuto can't dodge naruto's flash shunshin and thus Naruto could end the match at any time by just flash shunshining a FRS into him.
We've seen in this post that KCM Naruto has easy counters to all of Kabuto's jutsu, and thus I think that KCM Naruto wins this fight with low difficulty as he would only need a couple of KCM clones to win.
Now obviously this does not make Kabuto weak, it's more like KCM Naruto is really underrated as a single one of his KCM clones has the feats to beat any of the gokage and any of the past edo kages (if they were alive) 1 vs 1.
Its not at all a poor counter, its basically what itachi did to counter Kabuto except naruto can use up to nine of those bad boys. And Naruto created a rasengan while he was grabbing lava, I don't think he would not be able to do it under white rage.
Why was that move not impressive at all? It was only unimpressive because it was used against KCM Naruto who is extremely durable. If four tails naruto sliced naruto's face with the exact same power and naruto had the ability to tank it, it would also look just as unimpressive as the 2 tails attack. Thus unless you have some kind of manga evidence instead of just saying "its not impressive" and saying "kabuto's scalpel is far better" then that is not an argument, thus Naruto did tank an attack that would slice orochimaru in half right to his face and came out unscathed.
Also, if you read the war arc, you would see just how powerful his KCM cloak actually is. Naruto took one of the if not THE strongest physical blow we've seen in the manga right to his face and was unharmed, he was not even damaged by nagato's giant shinra tensei. KCM Naruto's other feats just further back up the fact that the feat I showed you he has.
Brotherin, you basically just ignored all the scans that i've posted. I've shown you explicitly that Sandaime raikage only tanked the FRS because he had his RnY up which multiplies his durability exponentially. Without that up, he gets oblitterated by the attack. and i've shown you that rasengan destroyes substances 3 times harder than steel without even touching it. Kimimaro's bones would fall under that same category.
no, it's not just possible that RnY reduced that attack, it's actually what happened. i've shown you conclusive proof about how RnY exponentially increases its wearer's defenses, and that is the only reason sandaime was not oblitterated.
Why do you say Kimi's bones are more impressive? We know that the third's body is more impressive, but why kimi's bones? What attack did it take that would allow it to not get eaten up by rasengan?
Kimi's bones were being cut by chakra flow swords while Sasuke's chakra flow sword was easily repelled by Ei's raiton shield. Then sasuke was able to pierce Ei's shield and a bit into his skin with chidori. Chidori = rasengan, so Chidori = Rasengan >>> chakra flow sword > Kimimaro's bones. Thus rasengan does destroy kimimaros bones.
I have no idea how your argument stands that it protects him from the wind needles slicing his cells. We already know that a normal rasengan will easily tear up metal that is at least 3 times more durable than solid steel. By feats, a normal rasengan will easily eat right through that armor, and then the actual FRS wind sphere is tiers beyond tiers more damage dense than a rasengan. The armor will provide no protection whatsoever against the chakra needles hitting his cells, this is basically a point that is flat out knocked down due to feats.
it does, look what happened to human realm.
Do you know what damage dense means? it means that throughout the attacks AoE, the FRS wind shere does far more damage to what it comes into contact with than the tailed beast bomb blast radius. And by feats anyone would notice that this is true.
And for the last time, there is absolutely no healing from a chakra network being cut, tsunade absolutely does not disagree with me, she's actually the one who made the statement that a person can't heal from that kind of damage. If Kabuto's chakra network is damaged, he can't even liquify that damaged part as hydrification requires chakra.
yeah, that would not work, the manga is explicit about it. Once the chakra network is severed no jutsus can be used from the body part that has been damaged as the chakra network is what carries chakra to the certain body parts and thus kabuto would not be able to liquify.
Once again, if he is hit with FRS, he dies as the attack vaporizes the opponent unless you are the most durable thing in the narutoverse with your RnY up that massively enhances ur durability. Next, kabuto won't be able to use any jutsu or do anything chakra related if his chakra network is cut, thus there is no hydrification technique.
well that's kind of true considering Kabuto is not really going to survive that long against multiple guided FRS that he cannot survive.
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JIRAIYA perv
Active member
with his edo army, R.I.P naruto. a lot of people role playing the characters around here ..... way too much (edo army would drown naruto)
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who in this thread has ever said Naruto beats Kabuto with edo tensei? Don't falsely accuse other people of doing things just because you have a personal agenda against them. If your accusations are warranted or if the person's stance is in fact false, then you should be able to show why it is such. If you can't do that, then maybe its time you question your own stance and how well supported it is.
Brother Numpsay
Active member
Only considering Naruto's position when he is struck/stuck will he be able to perform it. This still leaves Naruto open for attack, and Naruto wasting chakra.
Right current Kurama helps Naruto.
He doesn't have be stationary do any of his attack he can willing move out the way and perform:
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@Underline: Never attended my words to apply completely falling over but to lose balance:
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That is actually not the reason it was counter:
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Itachi was an Edo so his chakra system is different then of his Human body. Naruto on the other hand would be in the same position as Sasuke (That one without a Edo body). Naruto may be able to sense Kabuto but that doesn't sense in coming attack
Saying he does not "Really have one" is due to Plot. But the manga is clear on time limit.
Naruto does not have super durability. I'm not sure what you are talking about minato-level reaction arms. Everything else I am aware of but that wouldnt mean a garenteed win regardless.
Kabuto will not have problems going offensive at all. Kabuto's speed, reflexes, senses, and all 1 hand seal attack can still fight fast opponents like Naruto. FRS has shown to never vaporize its opponents. FRS will not react the same with an Opponent like Kabuto. Shisuin can be counter by changing alterations to the environment and having lots of web traps around.
Naruto was constantly getting helped/saved from the match (except from zetsu). Even slow opponents are able to use simple counters to defeat faster opponents:
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Naruto would be in Sasuke situation
I can't argue with your ABC logic. by feats those moves are not as strong as Kabuto's attack, which already cuts internally.
Strongest is exaggerating but his his strength was really good. Kabuto chakra scalp is still more useful when hitting your opponent internally while usiing them as chakra blades.
It seem we can't come to a conclusion about this. Wind is inferior to lightening. So what his RnY actually reduced from damage is questionable. THe manga made it clear why he tank it
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I post scan above, disproving that.
I post a scan how it was able to drill throw chakra infused steel. Which gave me a conclusion on how Naruto's Wind style can cut.
An other ABC logic. All of these attacks have different reaction. Lightening vs Lightening, Lightening vs charka. I post a scan explaining the damage Kimimaro did instead of what the chakra sword did to Kimiaru.
Kabuto was able to survive normal rasengan with this Yin seal attack. Having Liquidfication still gives him the right to tank it. Added with Stickly Gold reducing the wind spikes and Karin's rapid healing makes it safe to say he is safe.
I'm aware what he does to a normal body
You should post a thread on Discussion I want to hear opinions form others.
And for the last time, there is absolutely no healing from a chakra network being cut, tsunade absolutely does not disagree with me, she's actually the one who made the statement that a person can't heal from that kind of damage. If Kabuto's chakra network is damaged, he can't even liquify that damaged part as hydrification requires chakra.[/QUOTE]
I re read that and you were right about her saying that, but Kabuto still can willing do it without any problems. You post of him being "Slow" but I never seen Wind attacking the cells very fast either.
Then its a matter of whos first. Kabuto willing do it or the wind spikes.
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(Basically between these events if the the time it reaches it's cells.)
Agree to disagree that it will or will not make it in time.
There is always Rebirth too.
I have never seen anyone getting vaporized. And I clarified the RnY situation.
Kabuto will not have problems going offensive at all. Kabuto's speed, reflexes, senses, and all 1 hand seal attack can still fight fast opponents like Naruto. FRS has shown to never vaporize its opponents. FRS will not react the same with an Opponent like Kabuto. Shisuin can be counter by changing alterations to the environment and having lots of web traps around. He can still control the battlefield without Edo's.
PS: you write too fast
Nice multiquote skills bro! if i had any rep power i'd rep you right now.
and rasengans take no handsigns.
and it pretty much is a guaranteed win for naruto as I have continuously listed why.
i said one of the strongest and that is in no way an exhaggeration unless you can show otherwise. Sure kabuto's chakra scalpel is more useful that the blunt force attack he was hit with, however by the feats of the chakra cloak, it would mean that the Niibii's attack can be equated to the KN4's attack and thus naruto can take the chakra scalpel without much damage.
why can't he perform it before he is struck/stuck by the webs? And his clones can run around cut them too. chakra is no issue for naruot, his KCM supply uses half of Kurama's chakra.
That scan just shows him moving and then using Kimimaro's bone tech. At the very least for kimimaro and jirobo's jutsu he does have to have his hands pressed against the ground while those techniques are active.
okay.
Um... sasuke defeating Muki tensei via amaterasu does not mean that that's the only way to beat it. muki tensei gives life to the environment, sasuke killed the environment, thus naruto only has to kill it as well which is what FRS does.
and rasengans take no handsigns.
Naruto already proved he can sense kabuto and his attack via emotion sensing, naruto would not be in the same position as sasuke as chakra arms are simply created by thought and thus he wold be able to make them and fend off itachi with them.
No, saying he does not really have on is due to the manga, i showed you canonically how long he can stay in KCM, that has nothing to do with plot. It is BM that has an explicit time limit, and even then it only applies to his full avatar form.
Um.... naruto is the second most durable character in the manga based on feats. I have no idea in the world how you can say he does not have super durability. If you want to make a claim as bold as that one, please support it with evidence, else it is false.
and it pretty much is a guaranteed win for naruto as I have continuously listed why.
Brotherin, you have continuously made assertions that are not only baseless, but ones that I have already countered with canonical evidence. Kabuto is not going to be able to go on the offensive if he has to dodge multiple attacks sandaime raikage can't dodge. FRS already vaporized human realm the most durable body of pain. There is nothing that suggests FRS will not react the same with an opponent like kabuto. and I've already listed how naruto easily destroys the environmental alterations and webs in addition to the fact that he can't do that as a reaction to naruto's flash shunshin, he would have to do it before.
Naruto while in KCM did not need any more help than gaara and oonoki needed when fighting their battles. KCM Naruto needed no help landing a FRS on sandaime raikage. And anyways that's all hype, by actual feats he is stronger than any of the kages that appeared in the war arc, and by feats they are all kage level.
absolutely not and I have explained why many many times, if you ignore my argument again, it's a concession on your part.
By feats those moves ARE as strong as kabuto's attacks as I have proved them to be. Unless you can show otherwise, the swipe would cut itachi in half and naruto tanked that to the face. You can't just wave off your opponent's arguments if you don't like them.
]
i said one of the strongest and that is in no way an exhaggeration unless you can show otherwise. Sure kabuto's chakra scalpel is more useful that the blunt force attack he was hit with, however by the feats of the chakra cloak, it would mean that the Niibii's attack can be equated to the KN4's attack and thus naruto can take the chakra scalpel without much damage.
Brotherin, it's not that we continue to disagree, it's that you continue to ignore my arguments. I have explicitly shown you how much RnY boosts its users defenses, thus Sandaime tanked the attack because RnY explonentially boosted his defenses. If he did not have his super powerful body, then he would not have tanked it, but at the same time if he did not have RnY to boost his already super defense, he would not have tanked it as well.
your scans in no way shape or form disprove that. RnY is a defensive stat booster, if sandaime raikage's natural defense is super strong, then with his RnY his defense is going to increase exponentially and thus he will be able to tank attacks that he couldn't do it with his body alone.
your scan showed the exact opposite friend. The samurai sword was the thing that was cutting into kimi's bones, not the other way around. And no, FRS has shown to be ridiculously more powerful than a chakra sword, debate honestly.
Unless you can show how the attack mechanics would differ so greatly that the A>B>C logic would not roughly apply then it works. The chakra sword is the one that is cutting into kimi's bone in the scan you posted, chidori is far more powerful than a chakra sword and rasengan is as strong as chidori. You can't just wave arguments that you don't like off and call them irrelevant.
Once again, in no way shape or form does any of that give him the ability to even not get vaporized by a FRS. A FRS wind sphere is tiers beyond tiers more powerful than a normal rasengan. Stickly gold in no way reduces wind spikes if a normal rasengan destroys things 3 times as durable as steel without even touching it. Karins rapid healing does nothing to chakra network damage. Stop repeating defeated points, I have shown you by feats how none of that stuff is surviving FRS, you are just baselessly list ing defenses and arbitrarily saying "oh well this should let him survive it".
human realm is in no way shape or form a normal body, human realm is the most durable of pains bodys and has taken hits to the face that send him into walls with so much force it creates a small cave and he just walks out of it. If you want to assert things like "normal body" post feats or evidence to back up your assertion.
so you really aren't reading my arguments at all anymore are you? Do you even know what damage density means?
the wind sphere instantly explodes into the vortex and shreds whatever is within it. That right there is already attacking all the cells in his body with wind needles in a far lesser time frame than his hydrification technique acts in. So kabuto gets vaporized by this technique and if by some small chance he survives he can't use any chakra, no healing no hydrification no nothing.
The wind sphere is obviously much faster as it instantly explodes and envelopes the target. And the kakuzu performance is irrelevant as we see with the 100% version that the kcm clones use it explodes instantly. Please stop using the kakuzu one because it is irrelevant to the one kabuto is getting hit with in this thread.
oh and even if he liquifies, he still gets vaporized by the FRS and thus is defeated.
Brotherin look at your arguments and look at your counters to mine. Basically half of the counters you half are just turning a blind eye to my arguments or calling them irrelevant without any evidence.
oh and even if he liquifies, he still gets vaporized by the FRS and thus is defeated.
which also requires chakra and can't be used if his chakra network is messed up, and would not repair chakra network damage as no restoration technique can do that.
no, we have explicitly seen someone get vaporized, and you have just ignored my explanations and continued to bark a defeated point about the RnY.
all of these points have been explicitly defeated by my argument FRS vaporizes Kabuto as he has not shown any type of super durability on the same level of sandaime raikage with RnY on. Kabuto's dodging feats do not grant him the ability to dodge multiple guided FRS, and he can't heal from that damage. Finally if he liquifies in time his liquified body gets vaporized and thus he is defeated as suigets was defeated while in a lake from just having a bijuudama pass through him.
Brotherin look at your arguments and look at your counters to mine. Basically half of the counters you half are just turning a blind eye to my arguments or calling them irrelevant without any evidence.
AlphaScythian
Active member
Kabuto wins, naruto has nothing vs white rage and possibly tayuyas genjutsu can affect naruto and kurama, not thats its needed after the first one.
Brother Numpsay
Active member
This is my last reply rebuttal before it goes in circles, too bad for I can still rep.
He can perform depending on what was attach or where Naruto has been caught (arms, limbs, etc). Kabuto can always just add more too, once caught once. This is still available to do anything else right after like Earth Dome, body take-over, Kimmiruo bones, Genjutsu(Kurama constantly disrupting, while Naruto struggles from webs), etc. So yes I do see no problem getting cut but that also leaves him open for any other.
I'm aware of that but the point was he doesn't have to be stationary to perform the jutsu. I don't see how making arguments of Naruto stooping kabuto form perform jutsu being a legit counter. Never seen him do that in character and also we mind as well not restrict Edo tensi since he can stop him before he claps his hands. (all his moves that same speed type)
FRS is the answer to everything lol. Sasuke didn't kill anything it was the intense heat temperature from the attack the made it grow back to its original place. If it was that simple anyone could "break it back to form".
Rasengan attack needs to rotate and being made into sphere, it still has time properties as much as any 1 seal
His body, ear the closest thing to the brain, are being continually paralyzed and in pain. Just saying he can just make chakra from the bat is just ridiculous. You think that his thoughts in that condition would be alright be counter right away? Charka arms will not be enough to defend against Kabuto next move anyway.
I honestly can make the same argument of how the fodders (people in shinobi alliance) lasted the same days (even more time) with naruto without running out of chakra, and still maintain to fight the juubi.
1.3rd
2. 1 Hokage
3. Tsunade
4. Kisame
At the end I can post why they are above Naruto. but by making these statements would be an argument of our opinion on whos durability is better.
Evidence shows that Raikage did dodge them twice. Evidence shows that Naruto had knowledge on raikages and prepared a counter ready. Evidence shows that Raikage didn't give him no attention to him until he was attack. Fending against multiple people would be a problem alone but Kabuto's environment changing can help that from becoming dangerous. Naruto's clones would be useless trying to run around with slopes and spikes. Naruto speed still applies to physics when running(can't run around like Sonic games). Nor run everywhere/anywhere when Webs are placed everywhere for blockage. Your counters is as valid as mine.
Naruto came and saved them from Muu. Clones almost died from 3rd, Madara, Black zetsu (not lose but unable to finish off).
Not at all this is actually on your part. Putting Naruto in that frustration of succession is really not his character. Saying by his thought, to give him that focus of is not Naruto in this position. Nor will his arms be good enough for any of Kabuto's next attacks.
By Feat they are NO where near Kabuto's I'm really not so sure why you think that. Naruto has never tanked that nor tank Kabuto's in the face. You comparing 2 tails to Kabuto's attack is plain silly. 2 tail Cat v2 scratch to internal damage+blades and Chakra. 7 tail v2 bite (which is stronger then 2) also. This move is as good as chidori
IN NO WAY NiiBii is equated to KN4 that is utterly ridiculous to say. You cannot simply take internal attacks, which is even Added with SM more power. I can't possible see how you are doing these comparison. You told me to be honest in your recent post when debating and I have done that I even told you some points where I was wrong and you were right about. I think you need to do the same at some.
I continually told you that lighting defense is nothing to Wind style attacks. And I clearly gave you Naruto's words that it did nothing to his body even after defeating Raiton. I know your not in denial but I ask you to please read carefully about this tanking incident
It is a stat booster it is STILL USELESS AGAINST Wind style. This is what made 3rd very famous. Destroying the armor is one thing, which wind styles can easily do, but destroying his actually body is another
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Look carefully.
Post above, I don't why you can't see. Look carefully. And also read the Samurai's thought.
You are comparing Chakra base attacks to baseless metallic feat that can be destroyed by hands(
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,
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. I never said it heals charka network I said it heals after the explosion. Network was protected by Sticky Gold. Thats why I brought up 3rd Raikage because his steel like skin saved him from tanking. Therefore I see Sticky Gold as a valid counter from Chanel network being saved. Something needs to block wind Spikes and Solidify Gold is good enough in my opinion (which is more durable then steel). I didn't mean normal as a fodder but normal as of no unique body type. Noting to defend its skin or some type of defensive ability
I read 346 for clarification
Kabuto never had trouble going into liquid state you basing how it was slow, when in actually he could of done it anytime from his battle.
1.) Sasuke statement was wrong, and lacked knowledge
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2.)It was a Snake clone and not his original but, so there is no primary focus to liquify
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To make it more clearer is that he doesn't need to look like he is in a liquid state show that it is in function:
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Since this was my last post I deiced to post this on a misconception of being "Slow"
(Argument update at bottom underline)
Agree to disagree. I understand how you could apply how Wind Speed is able to do to Water but then again Kabuto doesn't need to apply it to his whole body or act exactly as "actual" littler water droplets. At best it will put him on Suigetsu state. Gold armor protects network, Water reduces, Karin regeneration.
I am aware but I was never speaking as a "After it happen" scene but before.
My whole point was the reaction will not be the same with Kabuto as of 3rd. Human Path too.
I covered this on my post with that conclusion:
Conclusion I never said any of you stuff were irreverent. It was a matter of weak comparison, therefore Naruto is "defended" by them. Your whole argument was base of Shishun before anything/ clones with FRS. Alot of misconceptions from your argument thus it ended with both of us going in circles. My argument was never meant to be dodging only but you have to take Kabuto's attack into considerate too. Both of them can counter each other from their attacks. The disagreements lies of what happens when.. FRS.. .Kabuto has multiple trapping attacks. Naruto would have to be on a constant counter when that occurs.
Naruto and clones would be trap. And left open for the next attack
White Rage
Webbing
Earth Dome/Slopes
temeral earthquakes causing disbalence
Charka scalp (internal damage)
Reanimating ground/slopes, which speedsters loses benefits
reanimate stuff to attack for him at any given place
Never mention: Manda 2.0 summon can really give a hard time for a island size monster
Being overwhelm will not be Kabuto's problem
Anyway for my last reply I thank for enlightening me on things that I didn't know. You get a rep.
Update ignore my argument saying Kabuto turns water. Kabuto has his own fluid state that he made base off hozki clan (I have read scan incorrectly). What the fluids actually are is questionable on how it can tank attacks like FRS. We know for sure it won't be the same as Water. Or Hozki clan.
Edit: I just tried it and it won't let me rep yet. I'll do it as soon as I am able to. (promise)
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I don't see how KM Naruto can beat DSM Kabuto. Kabuto has a ton of powers to shut Naruto down and on top of that he has infinite sage mode super healing and he can turn his body into liquid. His super alertness will allow him to dodge Naruto's attacks and on top of that if he does manage to get hit he can turn his body into liquid and cause Naruto to go right through him. I think his only real weakness was genjutsu and he realized that and blinded himself. There is nothing Naruto could do to defeat him.
Brother Numpsay
Active member
once again multiple clones, he is not going to be going up against 1 KCM naruto, naruto can have 1 clone going around busting his webs, and kabuto isn't going to have time to shoot webs when he is dodging for his life against multiple guided FRS. This is not a 1 vs 1 KCM Naruto vs kabuto fight, this is multiple KCM Narutos vs 1 kabuto. The chances of naruto being caught in a web are nigh impossible. For every move DSM Kabuto makes, Naruto is going to be making 4 or 5 or 6 moves. Spit one web, 1 naruto cuts it while 3 narutos end kabuto with guided FRS. Use mukitensei, 1 naruto kills it while 3 narutoes end kabuto. Use earth dome, 1 naruto destroys it while 3 narutos end kabuto. It's the same thing with all the other techniques. while kabuto uses white rage he gets ended by guided FRS. The only one that this does not apply to is tayuya's genjutsu since it affects everywhere, can't be destroyed and he can do it while moving. Naruto will in no way get trapped by webs he can cut or destroy with rasengan.
The point is he DOES have to be stationary to perform those jutsu and while he is stationary he is wide open to getting killed via chakra arm FRS. Naruto not having the opportunity to use chakra arm FRS against an opponent who is stationary when they use a jutsu is completely irrelevant to this thread as given the chance he takes it.
Prove that ONLY heat temperature can defeat muki tensei. Kabuto explicitly stated muki tensei gives life to inorganic objects, if he gives life to something all naruto has to do is kill it, and FRS is the answer because it has more than enough firepower to do so.
in no way shape or form does KCM NAruto's rasengan take any time to make at all. Go reread the war arc naruto makes them in an instant.
I have already proven these points completely and utterly false as chakra arms are activated by mere thought, KCM Naruto has way higher defenses than edo itachi much better and plentiful chakra arms. He'd be more than capable of defending himself from kabuto in this assault.
lol debate honestly friend. those fodders were being constantly healed by medical ninjas throughout those fights and had rest during the night. Don't ignore my arguments I posted explicit manga scans showing that holding the KCM form requires significant chakra and naruto held that for hours. Since you have just continued to ignore my arguments, you concede this point and thus KCM Naruto will have no chakra problems while facing kabuto.
Lol in no way shape or form are these guys more durable than naruto. Tsunade is not super durable, she has super regen, Hashirama has not shown super durability himself, kisame gets cut by normal kunais while naruto's KCM clones have stopped swords with ZERO damage. Debate honestly, none of the people on your list bar sandaime raikage have taken the hits that KCM Naruto has take in the war and come out with zero damage. Since you have not supported yoru argument with any evidence rather you just listed arbitrary names its a concession on your part and naruto has the second best durability in the manga.
Your counters are as invalid as they can be. Kabuto won't have time to spit webs or use mukit tensei when he's getting attacked by multiple guided FRS so the webs and muki tensei have no relevance. while Kabuto is dodging for his life, the original could go and destroy the webs or muki tensei, and Kabuto in no way shape or form can cast that technique in the time before naruto covers the distance and shunshins a FRS into him. DEbate honestly, this is the fourth time I have to knockdown the same point of yours.
And your raikage assertions are completely false, Naruto knows kabuto is a SM user, so same knowledge and sandaime raikage paid attention to naruto as soon as he appeared on the battlefield. Since you have continued to lie about scans this is a concession on your part, and thus kabut does not have what it takes to dodge multiple redirected and guided FRS.
the clone beat sandaime raikage, Mei and her elite team were losing against black zetsu and the clone simply got tripped by him, Madara is far above the combined 5 kages and naruto's clone was a base clone that was told by tsuande that they could handle madara by themselves. And since you have not addressed the other part of my argument which was that by feats he is stronger than any of the kages in the war arc, then it's a concession on your part, the clone is actually kage level.
lol the out of character argument is what you have to stoop to in order to try and make a case for SM Kabuto. No naruto can focus and use chakra arms just fine, his pain tolerance is increadible, chakra arms are made by just thought, and naruto has made chakra arms and rasengans while getting burned by lava. And no chakra arms are more than capable of defending against Kabuto. Since you have simply asserted "chakra arms won't be capable" without providing any evidence, it's a concession on your part, chakra arms are capable and naruto defends against Kabuto in white rage.
Concession accepted as you have basically just repreated your stance that "2 tails cat claw is not as strong as Kabuto's attack" by bringing up no evidence to the table. All you've said is "his move is as good as chidori, your argument is silly, naruto has never tanked that nor tanked kabuto's in the face". All those are assertions that you have failed to back up with any manga evidence, and thus it is a concession on your part, Naruto tanks kabuto's chakra scalpels.
Once again it's a concession on your part since you are simply restating your position that 2 tails is not equated to KN4, that kabuto's attack is much stronger without giving a single shred of positive evidence to support your argument. I am being completely honest in this debate and have backed up all my claims with manga feats and evidence while you have simply asserted counterarguments while backing up your counters with zero manga evidence. Since your counterarguments are not backed up by any manga evidence, they are baseless and thus it's a concession on your part.
Once again, concession accepted on this point as I gave you scan after scan evidence after evidence showing explicitly that RnY boosts exponentially boosts his defenses, and thus he in no way shape or form straight up tanked a FRS with his own body's durability. Debate honestly debate honestly debate honestly, don't ignore blatant manga scans and evidences. Obviously naruto is going to say that it didn't put a scratch on his body if his body's defenses are amplified by his RnY. Wind having the elemental advantage over RnY in no way shape or form mean that the RnY gets easily erased.
It is in no way useless against wind style, just because it has the elemental weakness does not mean that it is a nonfactor, it cant' defend against fuuton attacks as well as it can agaisnt normal attacks, however it still massively amplifies his defenses and that is what allowed him to survive that attack. We see that when he does not have the RnY up, his defenses are far far weaker than when he does have them up
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that scan explicitly proves my point. The sword is cutting into the bone, the bone splinter happens because the sword is cutting into it. How in the world are you seeing the bone fracturing the sword?
the samurai's thoughts are because his sword is unable to completely cut through the bone whereas usually it can cut through steel with ease. I would love for you to post that scan in the discussion section and see what people think.
those are sage mode users who have the strongest physical strength feats in the manga. and debate freeing honestly. I have already showed you conclusive proof that the metal is three times more durable than solid steel, bringing up scans of other people damaging it just means those other people are extremely strong it does not suddenly make my previous proofs disappear.
concession accepted as I have shown you that sticky gold in no way shape or form is enough to defend against that attack and have shown you that by feats Sandaime raikage's body is tiers beyond tiers more durable than solid steel, and that by feats he only tanked FRS because he had his RnY up. Debate honestly, you can't just ignore my posts and repeat the same defeated points over and over again. Prove that sticky gold is more durable than steel, prove that it's 3 times more durable than steel, prove that its so durable that a rasengan can't destroy it. Actually nevermind don't since i've asked you to do that on multiple occasions, yet you still just restate defeated points.
So what? Human path's durability feats can almost be equated to super durability, and he is a far far better representation of how a FRS will work against Kabuto than the by far more durable shinobi in the narutoverse.
concession accepted as if you read that chapter, then you would know that that is not the same FRS he is getting hit with in this thread.
those scans in no way shape or form disprove the fact that kabuto takes time to liquify his insides. You are just showing me scans and saying "well sasuke was wrong" or "he didn't have to do it in this situation" etc which is all basically you saying "he hasn't done it quickly because of PIS" which of course is not an argument until we actually know he can do it quickly. And kabuto is liquifying his insides in order to take the sound vibrations which work by rattling bones, if his whole body was liquified he would not be able to move around.
Karins regeneration does nothing (proven by how FRS works)
Gold armor doesn't protect against even a normal rasengan (proven by normal rasengan easily destroying 3x steel durability)
Kabuto will be taken out if he is vaporized at best he'd be in suigetsu's post bijuuwave state, and thus it's a win for naruto.
concession accepted on this argument as well since I have continuously knocked down your supports yet instead of addressing my counter arguments, you simply continue to repeat your defeated points.
the only way oral ribirth would work is if kabuto has his snake out of the wind sphere when it hits.
and I have shown you that golden sticky armor in no way shape or form gives him durability even a tier below the third when a normal rasengan destroys 3 times steel durability objects with zero difficulty. Human path has advanced durability by his feats and the third is by far the most durable thing in the narutoverse. I have continuously given explicit manga canon defeaters to your points yet you simply ignore them and therefore I accept your concession on this point, that FRS kills kabuto if it hits him.
your argument flat out ignores about 70% of the points I make in my argument.
First off here are things things that you've just asserted without a shred of evidence:
- 2 tails cat claw is not comparable to 4 tails claw attack
- golden armor can protect against FRS
- chakra arms won't be able to defend against kabuto in white rage
- kabuto can somehow go on the offensive and simultaneously dodge multiple guided FRS
And here are things you've just flat out ignored:
- rasengan easily destroys things 3 x more durable than steel
- karin's healing does not do anything for FRS damage
- RnY exponentially increases its wearer's defenses even if it's up against a fuuton just not as much
- kabuto is cannot survive an attack that vaporizes him if he is liquified
all the points you've asserted are based on ZERO evidence while on the other hand, I have given canonical feats and evidence as to WHY those assertions are false, yet all you do is ignore them. Kabuto in no way will be able to set up traps and change the environment when he has to dodge multiple guided FRS something that sandaime raikage could not dodge who is faster than kabuto.
in no way shape or form would Kabuto trap them as they have easy counters for all his traps and kabuto won't even be able to go on the offensive when he has to dodge multiple guided FRS when sandaime can't even dodge 1 of them.
I have listed easy canonical counters that Naruto possesses for all of those things. Manda 2.0 gets cut in half by FRS.
of course it will be the fact that you just state this without giving an argument why is a concession on your part.
that's even worse since that fluid would consists of cells and thus FRS destroys them.
So in conclusion, KCM Naruto does beat DSM Kabuto with low difficulty, mid at the very most. Because you have ignored and thus conceded those arguments that I have listed in addition to asserted points without evidence that I have knocked down, then Kabuto does not dodge multiple guided FRS and does not tank a FRS's explosion, and therefore would be defeated by multiple KCM clones.
I gotta ask, DSM Kabuto vs Gokage, who wins? DSM Kabuto vs the past kages who wins?
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