Hiruzen

[-Logic-]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

To say just wait is like saying "just wait for the retcon, Hiruzen is still stronger than Hashirama", like I told you before, Kishi had lots of time to do that, few years ago was the best time to retcon Hiruzen, not now that the manga is near to it's end.

didnt you read my original post? no one in the manga right knows of hashiramas prime, except madara, so just wait... you crybaby.

 

[MRMichael]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

I will go and say the 3rd raikage was the second strongest of that era i am sure most would agree

 

[Kettei]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

Cant you tell by all the hashirama remarks that kishi wants hashirma to be stronger.Does hiruzen have a statue like hashirama.Its foreshadowing.When naruto and sasuke fought at the valley of the end.The two strongest shinobi ever.Sasuke=madara and hashirama=naruto.

 

[Tartarus]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

Uchiha Clan planned for coup de etat

Itachi as a good guy

Pain is just an acting leader

Tobi manipulated the Kyuubi

Tobi is not Madara

Hashirama's hype

Rinnegan, the evolution of Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan

None of these are retconns >.<, they're plot twists. Learn the difference. :sy:

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

didnt you read my original post? no one in the manga right knows of hashiramas prime, except madara, so just wait... you crybaby.

Edo-Hashirama is Hashirama's prime, immortal, young and can use Mokuton and Bringer of Darkness, can't you see? The 5 Kages were having a hard time with Mokuton while Hiruzen was not and he was alone and letting his guard down. Live with it cry baby.

 

[narutownsyouall]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

so false...

as a ninja hiruzen was better?

since when does mastering alot of jutsu make you better?

i guess kakashi>tobi

he didnt beat hashirama, hashirama didnt even go all out he was toying with him you honestly believe that edo hashi had only that to show?

he fought against hiruzen like he did against madara then hiruzen would of got owned.

He was Data book states him as strongest Hokage. He mastered all element releases, he masterd all forms of ninjutsu he was the best of his time.
And I was not saying that he had a lot of jutsu, i was saying that he had mastered all kinds (gen,nin,tai,ect..)

You have no clue how the fight would go and Enma>Mokuton.

This is not any logic. She saw much power from madara than she has ever seen before, (not even from sarutobi).
EMS madara has more raw power than what she saw from hiruzen's prime.
Hiruzen was a genius, not a beast or raw power like madara and hashi.
Hiruzen was a god of shinobi (leader of ninjas), not a myth (fairy tale) like hashirama, madara, sage of six paths, zeus.
If she has seen this much power from anyone in her life (hiruzen), she wouldn't have said this out of fear

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U_U

How do you know she saw Sarutobi fight? In the war she sticked with her 3 man team and they were all so powerful that Hiruzen was probably off on another front the whole time. We never saw Hiruzen in prime and he is a beast considering that he took 2 Hokage at once. And Intelligence has beat might many times before. God of Shinobi means more than leader, it means Someone who was considered to be not only the best but on top enough so to where they call him a god.

 

[Unorthodox]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

Stop making threads.

Your making things worse, Not better.

this ^

 

[Prince of Persia TTT]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

List of retconned in Naruto Manga:

Uchiha Clan planned for coup de etat

Itachi as a good guy

Pain is just an acting leader

Tobi manipulated the Kyuubi

Tobi is not Madara

Hashirama's hype

Rinnegan, the evolution of Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan

etc.................


Hiruzen was shown in the flashback of Naruto part 2. Despite all these retcons, Kishimoto didn't retconned Hiruzen's status as the strongest. Kishimoto had months and years to retcon Hiruzen but he did not. These retcons speak for itself and the never ending arguments of Hashi-Fanbous who can't move on.

WTH

you want to start a flame war again

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[bender]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

edo madara has boost from rinnegan and harashima cells so he is way stronger than his last fight with hashi

 

[Sabuto Hayashi]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

Here we go again. *sigh*

 

[TobisPawn]

Re: Lots of retconning in Naruto Manga, despite all these, Hiruzen was not retconned

shut the buck up dude youre killing me with this f-in hiruzen fanboy stuff.

Digging your sig, but shouldn't it say "curse of hatred," not "will of fire?"

 

[fat strudle]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

you guys are ridiculous. i hope you know when madara fought hashirama madara only had enternal. After his fight with hashirama he had got rinnegan. madara said himself that he didnt die at that fight, that he continued to live after.

 

[fat strudle]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

with rinnegan i think he'll be able to take down hashirama because rinnegan is on a whole different level than anything else. he rarely used wood style against the five kage. the only reason why he used the jutsu with the flower is to show them that he has the same power of hashirama

 

[ElectricClover]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

Uh huh. Ok then, I will slightly change my meaning. Having hype means that you're good enough to deserve it. The simple fact that the White Fang has that kind of hype that he was even compared to the Sannins means that he did great things deserving of that hype. But the fact that both Hashi and Hiruzen have massive hype, I ignore it, because at the level they are at it can't be trusted as a fair way to judge their full poewr, and so all that is left are the feats they were capable of. And currently, Hashirama has shown to have made some pretty incredible feats, like beating the guy who is reshaping the terrain.

Agree with this. Hashirama and Hiruzen have an incredible amount of hype so the only thing that can be trusted is abilities. Hashirama is better.

you guys are ridiculous. i hope you know when madara fought hashirama madara only had enternal. After his fight with hashirama he had got rinnegan. madara said himself that he didnt die at that fight, that he continued to live after.

Yes but EMS Madara has perfect susano'o. You have to be a massive beast to beat that.

 

[ImNoOne]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

actually, there is

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don`t remember from which chap though..
coloring is added ofc

This picture is one of those plot holes through which you could travel to the center of the earth.
Tsunade is roughly 50 years old like Jiraya and Orochimaru as they were all in the same team under Hiruzen.
Now when Tobi first claims he is Madara/ Kakashi first supposes Tobi to be Madara, I remember they were shocked because that would mean that Tobi would have to be at least 150 years old.
Extract the 50 years of Tsunade's age to the 150 supposedly Madara would have to have and you get that Madara should have born about 100 years before Tsunade. Let's admit Madara is much older than Hashirama, Which doesn't seem to be the case at all since they both appear to be fairly young. Even if Hashi was 20 years younger than Madara he would have to be 70+ when that picture was taken. Does that look likely to you?

On the other hand Hiruzen was 70 when he died. He should have been like 20, take or give a few, when Tobirama entrusted him with Hokageship, but the weird part is that we know that he was trained by both Tobirama AND Hashirama which must mean Hashirama would have to be alive say 60 years ago or maybe even 55 years ago. Which makes it more likely for the picture to be possible. So what I'd have to wonder is:

How old were Hashirama and Madara when they fought at the valley of the end? And how can someone say that 30 years is a short period, as in died shortly after the fight with Madara?

 

[MacMiller]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

That says nothing. Tsunade could just be amazed at how strong/cool her grandfather was.

 

[FizzyDrink]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

Quotes from the Databooks.

Page 117: "He is such a genius ninja that he was even called the 'Professor', and he still garners everyone's respect as the strongest Hokage in history." (「„プロフェッサー”と呼ばれたほ� ��天才忍者であり、歴代最強の影 として皆の尊敬を集め続ける。」, "'Purofessā' to yobareta hodo no tensai ninja de ari, rekidai saikyō no Hokage toshite mina no sonkei o atsume tsuzukeru")

Page 119: "'Strongest in history', 'genius', et cetera, the words used to describe the Third Hokage." (「„歴代最強”„天才”など、三代� �� �� �� ��火影を形容する言葉は賞賛に満�� �� � �て いる。」, "'Rekidai saikyō' 'tensai' nado, Sandaime Hokage o keiyōsuru kotoba wa shōsan ni michite iru.")

Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ�� �� � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")

thanks to Owarij for Posting these.

These are compelling. But the parts I bolded can possibly be interpretted as representing hype that isn't necessarily truth. And the first one is a tough one, I'd like to see it in context.

 

[tsuyaraba]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

He was Data book states him as strongest Hokage. He mastered all element releases, he masterd all forms of ninjutsu he was the best of his time.
And I was not saying that he had a lot of jutsu, i was saying that he had mastered all kinds (gen,nin,tai,ect..)

You have no clue how the fight would go and Enma>Mokuton.





How do you know she saw Sarutobi fight? In the war she sticked with her 3 man team and they were all so powerful that Hiruzen was probably off on another front the whole time. We never saw Hiruzen in prime and he is a beast considering that he took 2 Hokage at once. And Intelligence has beat might many times before. God of Shinobi means more than leader, it means Someone who was considered to be not only the best but on top enough so to where they call him a god.

whats this Hiruzen in his prme mean? There's no one running to say oh my god if Hiruzen was here he could take Madara down. I'm just asking, This whole business of him taking on 2 hokages is meaningless, they were puppets of an imperfect jutsu, would he bahe been able to take on Madara, Edo or not? just asking.

 

[tsuyaraba]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

arrrgh...There be much speech about Hiruzen and him being in his prime, its like a bloody new catch phrase. Yeah he was strong, for his time and simply not for mastering may jutsus. That might be rubbish. Kakashi was said to know a thousand jutsus, how much of them was helpful against pain? How i wonder would hiruzen deal with Pain?, How is he stronger than Hashirama for that matter? Everyone panicked at the sound of madara's alleged return, even tho it turned out to be Tobi. madara continues to laud hashirama's name, honestly i think he'd be impressed more by someone like itachi or Minato than Hiruzen if he had the chance to encounter them...FLAME ON!!

 

[tsunademan]

Re: Tsunades shock shows that hashirama > hiruzen

tsunade has not experienced a fight like that