Hinata question

[Silverforsakenhamster]

Cause Hinata is a Mary Sue. She's so perfect, so innocent, that has no flaw in her character whatsoever.

 

[Oksus]

Cause Hinata is a Mary Sue. She's so perfect, so innocent, that has no flaw in her character whatsoever.

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[Fanta]

Cause Hinata is a Mary Sue. She's so perfect, so innocent, that has no flaw in her character whatsoever.

I hope your being sarcastic ..

 

[Momo86]

Are we reading the same manga?

I never said Naruto didn't thank her, I said Naruto doesn't give her credit for changing the course of the battle, nor anyone else on the Leaf Village does. Nobody hails Hinata as the heroine who played a major role in that battle and there is a reason for that. On the contrary, when Naruto was willing to give up against Obito, Hinata intervened and talked him out of it. That was the moment where she actually was successful in saving him.

This betrays a failure to understand the Taoist.

Or perhaps I disagree with your interpretation.

Hinata's stepping in the battle sparked a series of events that led to Pain's loss. That is undisputable. But according to your logic, despite her not having the slightest idea of what would happen, she has to be credited for saving Naruto more than Naruto himself (who decided to let Kurama take over), Kurama (whose power helped a lot in depleting Pain) and Minato (who prevented Kurama burning Naruto and kill him). All these characters where more conscious of what they were doing than Hinata, but you warp taoist philosophy to make the point that Hinata saved the day. Following your logic, Hinata is the one who beat Pain because her intervention was the crucial one to prevent Naruto's defeat after he was pinned.

That said, I'm tired of this unrelevant side-discussion. If you think you can use taoism as a basis to make people responsible for things they have no idea about, go ahead and do that.

 

[Oksus]

I never said Naruto didn't thank her, I said Naruto doesn't give her credit for changing the course of the battle, nor anyone else on the Leaf Village does. Nobody hails Hinata as the heroine who played a major role in that battle and there is a reason for that. On the contrary, when Naruto was willing to give up against Obito, Hinata intervened and talked him out of it. That was the moment where she actually was successful in saving him.




Or perhaps I disagree with your interpretation.

Hinata's stepping in the battle sparked a series of events that led to Pain's loss. That is undisputable. But according to your logic, despite her not having the slightest idea of what would happen, she has to be credited for saving Naruto more than Naruto himself (who decided to let Kurama take over), Kurama (whose power helped a lot in depleting Pain) and Minato (who prevented Kurama burning Naruto and kill him). All these characters where more conscious of what they were doing than Hinata, but you warp taoist philosophy to make the point that Hinata saved the day. Following your logic, Hinata is the one who beat Pain because her intervention was the crucial one to prevent Naruto's defeat after he was pinned.

That said, I'm tired of this unrelevant side-discussion. If you think you can use taoism as a basis to make people responsible for things they have no idea about, go ahead and do that.

I agree with you

 

[Joshutsu]

Kishi at least does not exploit his females characters for cheap fanservice .... If I want nude females I wld watch Highschool DxD or other ecchi even hentai, they are intended to be crappy but horny stuff.... Hiro completely exploits them for the horny teenagers, even my sister complains about that ...... Kishi has a bit old fashioned mentality but never degrades them like fairy tail.

Degrading is degrading though.

 

[Silverforsakenhamster]

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I hope your being sarcastic ..

yea i'm not. Sorry but I spoke the plain truth so except or leave.

 

[Fanta]

yea i'm not. Sorry but I spoke the plain truth so except or leave.

Sorry, Hinata isn't perfect Lol

 

[Aim64C]

I never said Naruto didn't thank her, I said Naruto doesn't give her credit for changing the course of the battle, nor anyone else on the Leaf Village does.

Do you not know how to read?

It's right there, in black and white; Naruto says: "I must be pretty lame since you have saved me at least twice."

Further, your standpoint is complete nonsense. It's as if you expect Hinata to be hailed as the mighty savior when only a handfull of people knew she had even entered the crater (everyone else was too far away); and expect there to be lengthy discussions in a manga about who is and is not a hero/heroine.

Quotes in manga are expensive real-estate. It's not a 300 double-sided page novel. A quote takes up between 2% and 10% of a page's real-estate within a 16-page chapter.

Nobody hails Hinata as the heroine who played a major role in that battle and there is a reason for that.

Except Naruto.

One of the few who is known to have any knowledge of the encounter and the only one other than Nagato who actually heard the dialogue.

On the contrary, when Naruto was willing to give up against Obito, Hinata intervened and talked him out of it. That was the moment where she actually was successful in saving him.

She wasn't hailed as a great savior, then (again, except by Naruto). There were no cheers for Hinata or discussions of the like. Perhaps there will be in the future - but, like I said - quotes are expensive real-estate.

Or perhaps I disagree with your interpretation.

While not unexpected - there is a reason I form independent interpretations. If I agreed with others on a lot of issues, I would be just as wrong as they have been proven.

Hinata's stepping in the battle sparked a series of events that led to Pain's loss. That is undisputable. But according to your logic, despite her not having the slightest idea of what would happen, she has to be credited for saving Naruto more than Naruto himself (who decided to let Kurama take over), Kurama (whose power helped a lot in depleting Pain) and Minato (who prevented Kurama burning Naruto and kill him). All these characters where more conscious of what they were doing than Hinata, but you warp taoist philosophy to make the point that Hinata saved the day. Following your logic, Hinata is the one who beat Pain because her intervention was the crucial one to prevent Naruto's defeat after he was pinned.

This is where you don't understand the point I was making, at all.

Hinata is responsible for triggering the events.

If I aim and pull the trigger of a firearm - I'm responsible for where the bullet hits. End of story.

The Kyuubi wasn't 'conscious' in this regard. It wasn't acting to save Naruto. It was acting to destroy - as it always had. Naruto's influence was to provide a more constructive outlet - he was pissed at Pain - he was "aiming" (so to speak). Minato was, also, not a conscious part of the process. He was simply doing what he was implanted into Naruto to do - prevent the release of the Kyuubi and say a few nice things to Naruto.

That doesn't down-play the importance of each of those pieces; but the responsibility still falls almost equally to Naruto and Hinata.

That said, I'm tired of this unrelevant side-discussion. If you think you can use taoism as a basis to make people responsible for things they have no idea about, go ahead and do that.

Irrelevant. The word you are looking for is irrelevant.

The thing is that my argument doesn't require Taoism to work. Taoism - the theme of the series - enhances the relationship even further.

But, it's okay. As always, time will illustrate me to be correct.

 

[Momo86]

It's right there, in black and white; Naruto says: "I must be pretty lame since you have saved me at least twice."

[...]

If I aim and pull the trigger of a firearm - I'm responsible for where the bullet hits. End of story.

[...]

Irrelevant. The word you are looking for is irrelevant.

1. I was trying to say that Naruto was being nice, both of them know that he didn't defeat Pain thanks to Hinata or, more precisely, that Hinata's role in Pain's defeat is not greater than the role Jiraiya's intel, Kurama's power, Minato's last seal played. Just like both of them know that Naruto is not a "pretty lame" shinobi compared to Hinata. Both know that just as Hinata stepping in prevented Naruto's capture in the end, Kurama's rampage prevented Pain from finishing Hinata completely. Naruto is being kind and aknowledging her and her good intentions. This is quite different from what happened vs the Juubi, where Naruto admitted that he stayed on his path thanks to her, and held her hand because he needed her. I think there is a clear difference between the two instances. In the second case Naruto clearly isn't speaking nice words to give Hinata courage - he really would have given up if Hinata or someone else didn't intervene.

But whatever, let's interpret things literally if you like things that way. So then Naruto thinks Hinata saved him twice. Fine with it (apparently then he also thinks he's weaker than Hinata); I beg to differ with Naruto, then. Your assumption that a quote from the manga is the final truth is wrong - many characters stated that Itachi is the noblest of all, possibly even Kishimoto thinks so, that doesn't mean I am forced to agree.

Point 2 is the relevant one.

2. If you pull the trigger and the bullet hits you are responsible because you know what you're doing, and you are responsible for the forseable consequences of your act, not for just every event that comes afterward. You can't be held responsible (nor given merit) for things no one had a way to predict, the same thing holds true in courts, at least in my country. According to your logic, if Kurama destroyed the Leaf after beating Pain, Hinata was to be held responsible. She was not. The fact that the series has taoism as a theme, which is a fine observation in itself, doesn't make logic go out of the window.

3. Ah, yes, sorry. English is my second language so I make mistakes sometimes.