Healthy Nagato vs EMS Madara

[Optimistic]

Lol if you take both their sommuns there is nothing Madara can do to break CT

One PS Susanoo slash could

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The fact that you haven't replied to my last post proves that i shat on every bs you had to offer, i'm not gonna reply to someone who post nonsense without thinking.

This whole debate no wait... i mean discussion was boring, its like talking to someone who's never read Naruto before.My gosh what's this site come to...

 

[Optimistic]

You talk like a ****ing idiot fanboy and a ****
talk nicely and then i'll consider having a talk with you
I can counter all your arguments but you dont worth my time

Bold: Sad thing is you can't counter *censored* because none of Nagato's moves would work on Madara's PS Nine Tails combo.

Luckily i had time on my hands, so i'll waste my time owning noobs who thinks they know what they're saying.(i only talk nicely to people who actually offer good arguments).

 

[EliteRamenNinja]

C'monn, Madara will win this. I like Nagato more, but be honest.

 

[genii96]

Sorry for the long wait,schools stuff.

You even have the manga scan in front of you and you still don't even know what you are talking about.

He says you must possess Senju/Uchiha DNA to open the Rinnegan. Furthermore you won't be able to control the Mazo properly. Did you read over this part or what? Furthermore obviously means the statement is an add on of the first statement. You need Senju/Uchiha DNA to open the Rinnegan and you need it to control the Rinnegan. That wiki quote means nothing as the manga disagrees.

Madara controlling the Mazo w/o Rinnegan doesn't help your case at all as he already stated Obito could control it w/o the Rinnegan as he has Senju/Uchiha cells.


Wrong. Completely Wrong.

Nagato had his Pain Rikudou and no Binding chains ever came from their chakra rods. Even after Pain was defeated and Nagato stabbed Naruto with a chakra rod nothing came out.

Obito had his Pain Rikudou and his chakra chains bound Naruto on contact. Nagato being by himself makes no difference to the binding strength as the binding is for the Pain Rikudou. Obito already stated his binding is much stronger than Pain Nagato's so this isn't up for debate. There was literally no difference between the situation Nagato and Obito were in. No difference at all.

Baseless assumption is baseless. The Six Paths of Pain jutsu lets him control them. They have no free will nor were they on auto attack. Obito was controlling their every move as that is the function of the jutsu. He isn't controlling them via Edo Tensei.


The more the dog multiplies the smaller and weaker it gets. Madara can simply ignore them after enough hits as they won't even be near enough to faze Kyuubi let alone Kyuubi armored with Susanoo.

CST having a large area of effect isn't going to let it destroy something that easily tanked an attack, that vaporizes Mountains, with no damage at all. People survived that by simlpy having Katsuyu on wrapped around them and Tsunade survived without it.



He can't manifest chains cause his binding isn't strong enough. Simple as that.

you focused only on the firdt two statements,the third however clearlt makes a demacartion between the rinnegan and the dna,he told tobi he could use gedo EVEN without the rinnegan,which means the rinnegan on it's own can us gedo,he never said that you could use gedo only with uchoha and senju dna,bit rather you needed both DNAs to awaken the rinnegan. He clearly made a line between te rinnegan and senju DNA when he said the 3rd statement,eg,"since you have senju dna,you should be able to use eye genjutsus even without a sharingan",what does that statement mean?.

Firthermore Nagato has been summoning and using gedo from part 2 while in both physical and astral form without any effort,so i dont see the argument.


I said a focused CST,not a wide spread CST,all that power focused into a single attack rather than an all round mve,and his CST would be far above that of pain,a focused xcST would easily destroy that PS,then oush back force coupled with the destructrive power will both destroy ps and send them fling,nagato then simply sends several chakra disruption blades into the skin of kyubi,thus overwriting the control of madara since rinnegan>EMS. From therr madara looses.

Whether the dog can hurt kyubi or nt dosent matter,it will still provide a distractuon,if madara ignores it,it would just join itself back and continue to dinstract him.

Susanoo attacks and tbb will only strengthen nagato

nagato without gedo wins mid-high diff

nagato with gedo wins mid diff

rinnegan>ems in anyway

 

[KidGamer65]

Sorry for the long wait,schools stuff.



you focused only on the firdt two statements,the third however clearlt makes a demacartion between the rinnegan and the dna,he told tobi he could use gedo EVEN without the rinnegan,which means the rinnegan on it's own can us gedo,he never said that you could use gedo only with uchoha and senju dna,bit rather you needed both DNAs to awaken the rinnegan. He clearly made a line between te rinnegan and senju DNA when he said the 3rd statement,eg,"since you have senju dna,you should be able to use eye genjutsus even without a sharingan",what does that statement mean?.

Wrong. Read the page.

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"You can't awaken Rinnegan without Senju and Uchiha DNA, furthermore you can't handle the Mazo properly."

This sentence obviously means that without Senju and Uchiha DNA you can't awaken the Rinnegan and you cant handle the Mazo properly without it. Nagato can't control the Mazo properly. Manga FACT.

He said that without Rinnegan he can still control the Mazo. Without both powers you can't control it properly Never said that you can't control it at all. Rinnegan allows you to control the Mazo but you can't control it as well as someone who has Senju and Uchiha DNA.

Firthermore Nagato has been summoning and using gedo from part 2 while in both physical and astral form without any effort,so i dont see the argument.

Manga said he can't control it properly not that he can't control it at all. Therefore he doesn't get Obito's Gedo control feats.

I said a focused CST,not a wide spread CST,all that power focused into a single attack rather than an all round mve,and his CST would be far above that of pain,a focused xcST would easily destroy that PS,then oush back force coupled with the destructrive power will both destroy ps and send them fling,nagato then simply sends several chakra disruption blades into the skin of kyubi,thus overwriting the control of madara since rinnegan>EMS. From therr madara looses.

Wrong. Nagato poured his full power into that move as he had to deactivate the rest of his paths. It won't be any stronger. The CST that failed to get past Mini Katsuyu clones isn't going to do anything to PS.

@bold: Proof of CST being able to destroy PS?

Bold is never going to happen as CST isn't destroying Susanoo. That's a completely baseless assumption you pulled out of your arse. Baseless assumption is baseless as usual.

Whether the dog can hurt kyubi or nt dosent matter,it will still provide a distractuon,if madara ignores it,it would just join itself back and continue to dinstract him.

Not really. Why would he be focused on something that can't hurt him?

Scans of the bold?

PS Sword shockwaves fodderize Nagato.

 

[ILikeBigYolos]

Madara high diff, and if Nagato is lucky: Nagato high diff.

 

[johnnyindigo]

Alhough Rinnegan > Sharingan
Some could make a readily debate that it is conditional
Anyway Madara is a master of the sharingan
So im forced to believe PS takes this

 

[KidGamer65]

Alhough Rinnegan > Sharingan
Some could make a readily debate that it is conditional
Anyway Madara is a master of the sharingan
So im forced to believe PS takes this

This is a quote anyone who believes Rinnegan>EMS thus Nagato>Madara should read.

 

[genii96]

Wrong. Read the page.

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"You can't awaken Rinnegan without Senju and Uchiha DNA, furthermore you can't handle the Mazo properly."

This sentence obviously means that without Senju and Uchiha DNA you can't awaken the Rinnegan and you cant handle the Mazo properly without it. Nagato can't control the Mazo properly. Manga FACT.

He said that without Rinnegan he can still control the Mazo. Without both powers you can't control it properly Never said that you can't control it at all. Rinnegan allows you to control the Mazo but you can't control it as well as someone who has Senju and Uchiha DNA.



Manga said he can't control it properly not that he can't control it at all. Therefore he doesn't get Obito's Gedo control feats.



Wrong. Nagato poured his full power into that move as he had to deactivate the rest of his paths. It won't be any stronger. The CST that failed to get past Mini Katsuyu clones isn't going to do anything to PS.

@bold: Proof of CST being able to destroy PS?

Bold is never going to happen as CST isn't destroying Susanoo. That's a completely baseless assumption you pulled out of your arse. Baseless assumption is baseless as usual.



Not really. Why would he be focused on something that can't hurt him?

Scans of the bold?

PS Sword shockwaves fodderize Nagato.

if ou mean nagato cant have gedo seal up several bijuus like tobi,there is no problem,but if you say nagato,cant have gedo attack anyone,then thats BS.
From your scans,madara simply stated 2 or 3 things,
- that senju and uchiha power are needed to awaken the rinnegan

- without awakening the rinnegan,you cant control gedo properly

- if you have both senju and uchiha dna however,you can use gedo without the rinnegan.

Madara never said that you cant cntrol gedo properly if you have only the rinnegan,which in itself,consists of both uchha and senju power.
When he told tobi that he could control the gedo,he told him that he could still use it withoyt the rinnegan,which simly means that the rinnegan can control the gedo.

Uchoha and senju DNZ are needed because when they are both joined together,the rinnegan would be awakened,once the rinnegan is awakened,then the user can control gedo,translanting the eyes to another person,who is an uzumaki and a blood relation of the senju wont remove that gift,rather the only thing is that it would probably take more chakra to use it than normal,the sharingan and byakugan dont loose their abilities when transplanted,the sharingan cmes from the rinnegan,why would the rinnegan loose any ppwer when transplanted?.

Izanagi requires both uchiha and senju DNA,danzo gained senju dna through hashi's cells,how did he gain uchiha dna?,it was through the sharingan,the same happens with the rinnegan,it is awakened by the senju uchiha power,when it is transplanted,what dna do you think is in the eye?.

Once more,madara said that "even without the rinnegan you can still use the mazo",the word EVEN,notes the need of the rinnegan to use the gedo.

Manga shows that with the other eyes,transplants only mean more chakra to use,madara told tobi that he could use gedo even without awakening the rinnegan since he had both DNAs,the rinnegan posseses both the senju and uchoha power,just like the sharingan posseses just the uchiha power.

Even if nagato cant use gedo like tobi,it is baseless to say he cant use it in a fight.


Naruto already said his abilities were above pains,and he faced deva when all the pther pahs were beaten as well. Nagato was using chakra to control deva,deva also needed to come close to nagatro to use CT,if he was using nagato's full power,he would not need to. Naruto said nagato's moves were a whole other level compared to pain.no discussion.

Even if it's the same,
hashirama's focused punched simply resulted in VOTE,nagato's wide spread attack resulted in konoha being turned into a crater,konoha is much bigger than VOTE. If nagato dos a focused CST,PS is in pieces.

Katsuya also tabked CT when it was sucked in,when naruto said that if it sucked them in they would all die,this was said when h had a susanoo and a full bijuu as allies,so using the slug as a comparison is baseless,it took naruto's 8tk cloak easily while also handling CT.
Konoha is much bigger than VOTE,and a focused attack of CST would easily trump madara. PS shockwave is deflected ight back at madara by an ST,while the susanoo sword is absorbed,this refuelling nagato. Even without gedo,he still takes it

Proof that the dog can fuse back?,it divided against j-man,when he summoned it against naruto it was fused,it divided against naruto and was fused again when summoned against km naruto. Is that magic?

 

[KidGamer65]

if ou mean nagato cant have gedo seal up several bijuus like tobi,there is no problem,but if you say nagato,cant have gedo attack anyone,then thats BS.
From your scans,madara simply stated 2 or 3 things,
- that senju and uchiha power are needed to awaken the rinnegan

- without awakening the rinnegan,you cant control gedo properly

- if you have both senju and uchiha dna however,you can use gedo without the rinnegan.

Madara never said that you cant cntrol gedo properly if you have only the rinnegan,which in itself,consists of both uchha and senju power.
When he told tobi that he could control the gedo,he told him that he could still use it withoyt the rinnegan,which simly means that the rinnegan can control the gedo.

Uchoha and senju DNZ are needed because when they are both joined together,the rinnegan would be awakened,once the rinnegan is awakened,then the user can control gedo,translanting the eyes to another person,who is an uzumaki and a blood relation of the senju wont remove that gift,rather the only thing is that it would probably take more chakra to use it than normal,the sharingan and byakugan dont loose their abilities when transplanted,the sharingan cmes from the rinnegan,why would the rinnegan loose any ppwer when transplanted?.

Izanagi requires both uchiha and senju DNA,danzo gained senju dna through hashi's cells,how did he gain uchiha dna?,it was through the sharingan,the same happens with the rinnegan,it is awakened by the senju uchiha power,when it is transplanted,what dna do you think is in the eye?.

Once more,madara said that "even without the rinnegan you can still use the mazo",the word EVEN,notes the need of the rinnegan to use the gedo.

Manga shows that with the other eyes,transplants only mean more chakra to use,madara told tobi that he could use gedo even without awakening the rinnegan since he had both DNAs,the rinnegan posseses both the senju and uchoha power,just like the sharingan posseses just the uchiha power.

Even if nagato cant use gedo like tobi,it is baseless to say he cant use it in a fight.


Naruto already said his abilities were above pains,and he faced deva when all the pther pahs were beaten as well. Nagato was using chakra to control deva,deva also needed to come close to nagatro to use CT,if he was using nagato's full power,he would not need to. Naruto said nagato's moves were a whole other level compared to pain.no discussion.

Even if it's the same,
hashirama's focused punched simply resulted in VOTE,nagato's wide spread attack resulted in konoha being turned into a crater,konoha is much bigger than VOTE. If nagato dos a focused CST,PS is in pieces.

Katsuya also tabked CT when it was sucked in,when naruto said that if it sucked them in they would all die,this was said when h had a susanoo and a full bijuu as allies,so using the slug as a comparison is baseless,it took naruto's 8tk cloak easily while also handling CT.
Konoha is much bigger than VOTE,and a focused attack of CST would easily trump madara. PS shockwave is deflected ight back at madara by an ST,while the susanoo sword is absorbed,this refuelling nagato. Even without gedo,he still takes it

Proof that the dog can fuse back?,it divided against j-man,when he summoned it against naruto it was fused,it divided against naruto and was fused again when summoned against km naruto. Is that magic?

Rinnegan doesn't consist of Senju and Uchiha power or DNA.

Rinnegan is the result of possessing both Senju and Uchiha powers. Rinnegan doesn't contain the power of Senju or Uchiha otherwise Rinnegan and Senju/Uchiha powers wouldn't be needed to properly control AND summon the Mazo.

It really doesn't matter if they were Madara's eyes. Madara stating that you need Rinnegan and Senju.Uchiha powers to control AND summon the Mazo shows that one part of the equation doesn't get the same results as the other.

Rinnegan by itself can't control the Gedo properly as Madara clearly said that without senju and Uchiha powers you can't handle the Mazo properly.

Izanagi only needs Senju and Uchiha powers to use Izanagi. Danzo had Sharingan from an Uchiha and Senju DNA from Hashirama.

Madara never told Obito he could use the Mazo even w/o Rinnegan. He said he can control it due to having Senju DNA. He cant summon it. Someone with Rinnegan can summon but if they lack the two powers then they can control it but they can't use it properly. So yes, you're right. Rinnegan is needed to be able to actually summon the Mazo but that only gives you limited control.

Its baseless to say he can use it in a fight when the last time he summoned it he lost a bunch of chakra and it only fired a soul dragon and its baseless to say that he can use it in a fight despite manga saying he has limited control over it and him not summoning it to battle before.

Nope. Him having to shut off his paths means he started channel all his available chakra through Deva. There is no reason why Nagato's would be stronger let alone far stronger. Deva having to get closer =/=Not being able to use the move at full power.

Katsuyu didn't tank CT she was inside of Naruto's pocket which means the chakra cloak was covering her. Besides. CT type of damage=/=CST type of damage. If Katsuyu can protect Sakura from CST it isn't obliterating Madara's Susanoo.


Jiraiya killed the chameleon summon yet Nagato summoned it against Naruto. Your point? Until you show scans of the dog coming back together it can't. End of story.

When Nagato repels one shockwave the other rapes him. Madara doesn't need to get anywhere near him to kill him so Preta is null and void.

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Madara rapes Nagato.

 

[Optimistic]

The idiocy flowing through this thread is worrying, people say Rinnegan > EMS so Nagato > Madara just because they can't post any good arguments besides using '>' all the time.

VS threads have gone downhill indeed.

 

[genii96]

Rinnegan doesn't consist of Senju and Uchiha power or DNA.

Rinnegan is the result of possessing both Senju and Uchiha powers. Rinnegan doesn't contain the power of Senju or Uchiha otherwise Rinnegan and Senju/Uchiha powers wouldn't be needed to properly control AND summon the Mazo.

It really doesn't matter if they were Madara's eyes. Madara stating that you need Rinnegan and Senju.Uchiha powers to control AND summon the Mazo shows that one part of the equation doesn't get the same results as the other.

Rinnegan by itself can't control the Gedo properly as Madara clearly said that without senju and Uchiha powers you can't handle the Mazo properly.

Izanagi only needs Senju and Uchiha powers to use Izanagi.

Its baseless to say he can use it in a fight when the last time he summoned it he lost a bunch of chakra and it only fired a soul dragon and its baseless to say that he can use it in a fight despite manga saying he has limited control over it and him not summoning it to battle before.

Nope. Him having to shut off his paths means he started channel all his available chakra through Deva. There is no reason why Nagato's would be stronger let alone far stronger. Deva having to get closer =/=Not being able to use the move at full power.

Katsuyu didn't tank CT she was inside of Naruto's pocket which means the chakra cloak was covering her. Besides. CT type of damage=/=CST type of damage. If Katsuyu can protect Sakura from CST it isn't obliterating Madara's Susanoo.


Jiraiya killed the chameleon summon yet Nagato summoned it against Naruto. Your point? Until you show scans of the dog coming back together it can't. End of story.

When Nagato repels one shockwave the other rapes him. Madara doesn't need to get anywhere near him to kill him so Preta is null and void.

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Madara rapes Nagato.

the sage's descendants are senju and uchiha,hence both are needed to awaken the rinnegan,the sharingan is awakened as well by one with uchiha dna,just like how the rinnegan is awakened with one with both uchiha and senju DNA,it's completely the same thing.

The sage dna consists of both senju uchiha,bringing back those 2 results in the rinnegan which means having both senju uchiha dna and powers,the rinnegan posseses both,just like how the sharingan posseses the dna and power of an uchiha,only uchihas awaken the sharingan,yet when implanted,the only side effect is the chakra drain,the same with the rinnegan.

Izanagi is as a result of the uchiha and senju dna,he got uchha dna from the ms he took,AO stated that his eye colour of th sharingan was the same as shushis,no two people have the same chakra colour IIRC,which means shushi's dna is also in there,just like how madara's dna is in nagato.

Madara said that both uchoa and senju are needed to awaken the rinnegan,and also uchia senju dna allows you to use gedo,tobi is an uchiha,so madara told hm that since he had senju dna,he could USE gedo EVEN without the rnnegan,there is no place where he said rinnegan only summons or the dna only controls,even if thats true,the power of senju and uchiha are in the rinnegan,which means nagato can use it.

Nagato getting emanciated has reasonskeither gedo had no chakra source to attack,and therefore needed nagato's chakra to control it as it had no chakra,whereas tobi ued gedo after it was boosted by 7 bijuus and such required no extra chakra

- that specific jutsu he used had that side effect,and IIRC tobi has never used that jutsu as well,you thin if he could bring out a soul dragon and just kill everyone without a side effect, he wouldnt have?.

You say izanagi requires senju uchoha dna to use?,what does rinnegan require to awaken?,madara clarly said that uchiha and senju dna are needed to awaken the rinnegan too,so yes a sharingan is also an uchiha dna source,just like how the rinnegan is a source of uchiha and senju dna.

If tobi is so much bettrer at the rinnegan than nagato,how did naruto break his mask?,where was his preta path?,why is he choosong to dodge the energy attacks when he could just absorb the attacks and revitalize himself with their attacks?,nagato could use preta and other paths as well. Why didnt tobi absorb naruto's rasengan?.nagato absorbed a htk v2 cloak of bee in an instant while crippled.


Katsuya is impervious to physical damage,CST and CT are both gravity attacks,one pushes away,one pulls into.

CST took out konoha,more than what shuusinsenju did,a focused one destroys PS worse than shuusinsenju did. Katsuya took 8ykls corrosive chakra,when 4tk was turning oroz's snakes to ash.using her as your backup is baseless.

LOL,so deva that faced naruto through his kyubi transformations was nagato at full power?yea right.

 

[KidGamer65]

the sage's descendants are senju and uchiha,hence both are needed to awaken the rinnegan,the sharingan is awakened as well by one with uchiha dna,just like how the rinnegan is awakened with one with both uchiha and senju DNA,it's completely the same thing.

The sage dna consists of both senju uchiha,bringing back those 2 results in the rinnegan which means having both senju uchiha dna and powers,the rinnegan posseses both,just like how the sharingan posseses the dna and power of an uchiha,only uchihas awaken the sharingan,yet when implanted,the only side effect is the chakra drain,the same with the rinnegan.

Nope. The user possesses both not the eye itself. Otherwise Senju and Uchiha DNA combined with the Rinnegan wouldn't be needed to control and summon the Mazo preperly. Only the Rinnegan would.

Izanagi is as a result of the uchiha and senju dna,he got uchha dna from the ms he took,AO stated that his eye colour of th sharingan was the same as shushis,no two people have the same chakra colour IIRC,which means shushi's dna is also in there,just like how madara's dna is in nagato.

Wrong.

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Izanagi only needs Senju and Uchiha powers. Danzo had the Sharingan which is Uchiha's power and he had Senju DNA which gave him access to Senju's power. The DNA isn't the important factor. The power that is carried within is.

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Madara said that both uchoa and senju are needed to awaken the rinnegan,and also uchia senju dna allows you to use gedo,tobi is an uchiha,so madara told hm that since he had senju dna,he could USE gedo EVEN without the rnnegan,there is no place where he said rinnegan only summons or the dna only controls,even if thats true,the power of senju and uchiha are in the rinnegan,which means nagato can use it.

You seriously need to learn how to read the manga properly.

Rinnegan is what let him summon the Mazo. He couldn't summon the Mazo until he got the Rinnegan despite having Senju and Uchiha's power.

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Madara tells him you can't awaken Rinnegan without Senju and Uchiha's power nor can you control the Mazo properly. Tells Obito that even without Rinnegan he can still control the Gedo.

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Rinnegan offers limited control hence him telling Obito that even without the eye he can control the Mazo but that doesn't change the fact that he already stated without the power of both clans you won't be able to handle it well.

Again, Rinnegan doesn't contain the power of Senju and Uchiha. It is simply the result of gaining Senju and Uchiha's power. Don't compare it to awakening the Sharingan as Rinnegan isn't passed down through blood like the Sharingan is.

The Power of Senju and Uchiha only lets you control it to its fullest as Madara gained access to the Mazo AFTER awakening Rinnegan.

Nagato getting emanciated has reasonskeither gedo had no chakra source to attack,and therefore needed nagato's chakra to control it as it had no chakra,whereas tobi ued gedo after it was boosted by 7 bijuus and such required no extra chakra

- that specific jutsu he used had that side effect,and IIRC tobi has never used that jutsu as well,you thin if he could bring out a soul dragon and just kill everyone without a side effect, he wouldnt have?.

This doesn't change the fact that Nagato can't control the Gedo properly so I have no reason he can use it battle like Obito did.

Post scans of him using it like Obito can and maybe I'll believe he can.

You say izanagi requires senju uchoha dna to use?,what does rinnegan require to awaken?,madara clarly said that uchiha and senju dna are needed to awaken the rinnegan too,so yes a sharingan is also an uchiha dna source,just like how the rinnegan is a source of uchiha and senju dna.

Now you don't know basic science? The eye only contains the DNA of the wielder. Why would a Rinnegan magically obtain Senju AND Uchiha DNA inside it? Also this voids Madara saying that Rinnegan AND Senju/Uchiha DNA is needed to control and summon the Mazo.

If tobi is so much bettrer at the rinnegan than nagato,how did naruto break his mask?,where was his preta path?,why is he choosong to dodge the energy attacks when he could just absorb the attacks and revitalize himself with their attacks?,nagato could use preta and other paths as well. Why didnt tobi absorb naruto's rasengan?.nagato absorbed a htk v2 cloak of bee in an instant while crippled.

Getting off topic? This bears no relevance to the topic at hand know does it? Didn't think so. Stay on topic.

Katsuya is impervious to physical damage,CST and CT are both gravity attacks,one pushes away,one pulls into.

Laughable. I didn't ask how they worked, I said that they don't deal the same kind of damage.

CST is just like Shinra Tensei it pushes things backward to deal damage. CT drags things upwards and crushes them with rocks. If the rocks can't crush them then it encases them. That is not the same kind of damage.

CST took out konoha,more than what shuusinsenju did,a focused one destroys PS worse than shuusinsenju did.

Yet it failed to kill Sakura, Tsunade, those two Anbu fodders. Tsunade and the Anbu didn't even have Katsuyu's protection.

The best this thing is going to do is push Madara and the Kyuubi backwards a bit but that's all. I wouldn't be surprised if 100% Kyuubi coated with PS could block it just like 6-Tailed Naruto blocked his weaker one.

Unstabilized PS tanked a Bijuu Dama from 100% Kyuubi with NO DAMAGE AT ALL. Yet you think a CST will one shot Stabilized PS? Laughable. Bijuu Dama casually vaporizes Mountains while CST destroyed a flat village...

Katsuya took 8ykls corrosive chakra,when 4tk was turning oroz's snakes to ash.using her as your backup is baseless.

Not really. All your post proves is that her defensive capabilities are above that of Oro's snakes.

LOL,so deva that faced naruto through his kyubi transformations was nagato at full power?yea right.

Nope. Never even said this.

 

[genii96]

Nope. The user possesses both not the eye itself. Otherwise Senju and Uchiha DNA combined with the Rinnegan wouldn't be needed to control and summon the Mazo preperly. Only the Rinnegan would.


Wrong.

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Izanagi only needs Senju and Uchiha powers. Danzo had the Sharingan which is Uchiha's power and he had Senju DNA which gave him access to Senju's power. The DNA isn't the important factor. The power that is carried within is.

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You seriously need to learn how to read the manga properly.

Rinnegan is what let him summon the Mazo. He couldn't summon the Mazo until he got the Rinnegan despite having Senju and Uchiha's power.

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Madara tells him you can't awaken Rinnegan without Senju and Uchiha's power nor can you control the Mazo properly. Tells Obito that even without Rinnegan he can still control the Gedo.

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Rinnegan offers limited control hence him telling Obito that even without the eye he can control the Mazo but that doesn't change the fact that he already stated without the power of both clans you won't be able to handle it well.

Again, Rinnegan doesn't contain the power of Senju and Uchiha. It is simply the result of gaining Senju and Uchiha's power. Don't compare it to awakening the Sharingan as Rinnegan isn't passed down through blood like the Sharingan is.

The Power of Senju and Uchiha only lets you control it to its fullest as Madara gained access to the Mazo AFTER awakening Rinnegan.


This doesn't change the fact that Nagato can't control the Gedo properly so I have no reason he can use it battle like Obito did.

Post scans of him using it like Obito can and maybe I'll believe he can.



Now you don't know basic science? The eye only contains the DNA of the wielder. Why would a Rinnegan magically obtain Senju AND Uchiha DNA inside it? Also this voids Madara saying that Rinnegan AND Senju/Uchiha DNA is needed to control and summon the Mazo.

for goodness sake,hoe does one get hashi's powers without his dna?,name one shinobi with hashi's powers who dosent have his dna?,Madara also said that the powers of the senju and uchuha are needed to awaken rinnegan as well as use gedo too didnt he?. The rinnegan contains the dna of madara,which is both uchiha and senju,danzo's chakra around his sharingan had the same colour as shushi's chakra,what 2 people have the same chakra?,he had shushi's dna in him,and thus his power.a sharingan is awakened by the uchiha clan,a rinnegan is awakened by the one who has uchiha senju,thus the rinnegan posseses both their powers just like the sharingan posseses the powers of an uchiha.

How am i going off topic?,if tobi cudnt even use preta to stop naruto,how is he somehow better than nagato who used it easily?,all paths abilities come from the rinnegan,gedo is controlled by the outer path,that is all. Kabuto got oro's power by integrating his body(dna) within him,there is no difference at all,getting the power of something means you have it's dna.

Tbb destroys mountains?,guess what,kirin can do the same,yet was blocked by incomplete susanoo,c3 is the equivalent of a nuke,and would have utterly wiped out suna,a mountain to that is nothing,yet it was blocked,nagato wanted to destroy the village,he sent 3 boss toads out of konoha with a casual ST with deva and broke their bones.

Madara's PS has the advantage of strength and durability,ir has no special abilities,shuusinsenju broke it,which do you think packs more force?,an attack that casually turned konoa to a crater or an attack that resulted in VOTE,and it wasnt even just the budha attacks,lots of tbbs and ps slashes had done damage there too,once he focuses it,PS gets obliterated.

You clam pain's CST was the same as nagato's,bcos all the other paths were deactivated,when naruto beat the other paths,deva was the only one and thus the only one nagato was sending chakra to,which by your logic claims was nagato full strength,naruto has aleady stated that nagato's powers far surpass pain,manga fact and nothing more.

Katsuya took CT,wheras naruto,bee and itachi would have been killed,unless physical attacks are useless against her,or she has more durability than all three of them,either way,using her as an argument is basless.

A focused CST packs more of a punch than those punches,brute force is all thats needed for madara,and nagato has plebty of it,a tbb or tbb shuriken would be absorbed,and nagato can infuse that immense chakra to further boost his CST,killing madara.

Rinnegan>ems on every angle.

 

[KidGamer65]

for goodness sake,hoe does one get hashi's powers without his dna?,name one shinobi with hashi's powers who dosent have his dna?,Madara also said that the powers of the senju and uchuha are needed to awaken rinnegan as well as use gedo too didnt he?. The rinnegan contains the dna of madara,which is both uchiha and senju,danzo's chakra around his sharingan had the same colour as shushi's chakra,what 2 people have the same chakra?,he had shushi's dna in him,and thus his power.a sharingan is awakened by the uchiha clan,a rinnegan is awakened by the one who has uchiha senju,thus the rinnegan posseses both their powers just like the sharingan posseses the powers of an uchiha.

Did I ever say you could get Hashirama's powers without getting his DNA? Nope. I simply said the power aspect is the main part of it.

Again, you are showing that you don't even understand basic science. Madara's eyes aren't magically going to have Senju DNA in them as he was born an Uchiha. He didn't implant DNA into his eyes he implanted it into his chest.

Wrong again. Not going to repeat myself again.

"Nope. The user possesses both not the eye itself. Otherwise Senju and Uchiha DNA combined with the Rinnegan wouldn't be needed to control and summon the Mazo preperly. Only the Rinnegan would."

Madara's word trumps anything you have to say.

How am i going off topic?,if tobi cudnt even use preta to stop naruto,how is he somehow better than nagato who used it easily?,all paths abilities come from the rinnegan,gedo is controlled by the outer path,that is all. Kabuto got oro's power by integrating his body(dna) within him,there is no difference at all,getting the power of something means you have it's dna.

If you are implying Rinnegan is all that is needed to fully control the Mazo then the manga disagrees.

Tbb destroys mountains?,guess what,kirin can do the same,yet was blocked by incomplete susanoo,c3 is the equivalent of a nuke,and would have utterly wiped out suna,a mountain to that is nothing,yet it was blocked,nagato wanted to destroy the village,he sent 3 boss toads out of konoha with a casual ST with deva and broke their bones.

If Kirin destroyed that mountain the Uchiha hideout was on then Itachi and Sasuke would both be dead buried under what used to be the Mountain.

Mountains are far denser than a village is.

Having a large AoE is a flawed way to judge the strength of an attack.

Madara's PS has the advantage of strength and durability,ir has no special abilities,shuusinsenju broke it,which do you think packs more force?,an attack that casually turned konoa to a crater or an attack that resulted in VOTE,and it wasnt even just the budha attacks,lots of tbbs and ps slashes had done damage there too,once he focuses it,PS gets obliterated.

You clam pain's CST was the same as nagato's,bcos all the other paths were deactivated,when naruto beat the other paths,deva was the only one and thus the only one nagato was sending chakra to,which by your logic claims was nagato full strength,naruto has aleady stated that nagato's powers far surpass pain,manga fact and nothing more.

Katsuya took CT,wheras naruto,bee and itachi would have been killed,unless physical attacks are useless against her,or she has more durability than all three of them,either way,using her as an argument is basless.

A focused CST packs more of a punch than those punches,brute force is all thats needed for madara,and nagato has plebty of it,a tbb or tbb shuriken would be absorbed,and nagato can infuse that immense chakra to further boost his CST,killing madara.

Rinnegan>ems on every angle.

CST didn't even kill Tsunade, Anbus who didn't even use Katsuyu to guard yet you think it will utterly annihilate Perfect Susanoo. What a joke.

Not to mention Mountain Busters>City Busters.

-A few megatons of explosive force is needed to destroy a city.
-50 megatons are needed to destroy a Mountain.
-Vaporizing a Mountain> Leveling the leaf village.
-CST isn't doing shit to PS when a Susanoo 1 lvl weaker than it tanked this.

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With NO visible damage.

 

[Strict]

Oh guys, is this match up really in need of a debate? Nagato is an ant compared to the perfect Susanoo's size, latter not only being a mere chakra entity that doesn't feel pain and can restore its form but also slices distant mountain ranges with nothing but the shock wave caused by a swing of its sword. Processes during which Madara throughout stays within it without being harmed and is able to perform further techniques. For instance the large scale Katon

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, able to cut off Nagato's sight and thwart the possibility to go out of range, forcing him to use Gakido and leave the opening Madara needs to one shot him with one slash by a non chakra based shock wave that proved enough power to bust mountains.

 

[shelke]

This is ridiculous. Nagato has no way around PS's shock wave. He is taken out early on in the battle, if Madara doesn't choose to toy with him first.

 

[genii96]

Did I ever say you could get Hashirama's powers without getting his DNA? Nope. I simply said the power aspect is the main part of it.

Again, you are showing that you don't even understand basic science. Madara's eyes aren't magically going to have Senju DNA in them as he was born an Uchiha. He didn't implant DNA into his eyes he implanted it into his chest.

Wrong again. Not going to repeat myself again.

"Nope. The user possesses both not the eye itself. Otherwise Senju and Uchiha DNA combined with the Rinnegan wouldn't be needed to control and summon the Mazo preperly. Only the Rinnegan would."

Madara's word trumps anything you have to say.





If you are implying Rinnegan is all that is needed to fully control the Mazo then the manga disagrees.


If Kirin destroyed that mountain the Uchiha hideout was on then Itachi and Sasuke would both be dead buried under what used to be the Mountain.

Mountains are far denser than a village is.

Having a large AoE is a flawed way to judge the strength of an attack.



CST didn't even kill Tsunade, Anbus who didn't even use Katsuyu to guard yet you think it will utterly annihilate Perfect Susanoo. What a joke.

Not to mention Mountain Busters>City Busters.

-A few megatons of explosive force is needed to destroy a city.
-50 megatons are needed to destroy a Mountain.
-Vaporizing a Mountain> Leveling the leaf village.
-CST isn't doing shit to PS when a Susanoo 1 lvl weaker than it tanked this.

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With NO visible damage.

madara siad you needed the power of the senju and uchiha to control gedo,he didnt say the dna either did he?,the rinnegan contains the powers of both uchiha and senju.

Madara's words simply said that even without the rinnegan you can still use the gedo,that proves that rinnegan can use the gedo on it's own,but if you have the uchiha or senju dna,you can control it even if you dont have the rinnegan. Why the hell would madara make reference to the dna and the rinnegan seperately if you need both?,nagato has been using gedo throughout the manga,he has summned and used it in astral form,he can use gedo. The manga shows nagato using gedo without any problem throughout part 2,madara says that EVENX WITHOUT THE RINNEGAN YOU CAN STILL CONTROL GEDO IF YOU HAVE BOTH DNAs,which means that the rinnegan controls gedo,but if you have the dna's you can still use gedo.
You claim nagato can have gedo attack like tobi,yet tobi,couldnt even use preta when his mask was broken,nagato has had his rinnegan for several years and has mastered it,controlling gedo is no problem to him.
You say the rinnegan has no senju dna in it?,the sage,had the dna pf boh senju and uchiha,madara only awakened his rnnegan after adding senju dna to himself,the rinnegan awakens when one has the dna of both senjus and uchihas,the rinnegan posseses the dna of it's wielder.
Manga never said you need both,manga said you need either. Either you have the rinegan,which is the power of the senju and uchiha,or you have the dna of the senju and uchiha,uf you have both,good for you.

Madara's PS shockwave didnt hurt any kage either,and it destroyed the entire landscape,neither did it hurt hashirama when it cur off the wood hands that held the kyubi. Going by your logic with kirin,shuusiinsenuju didnt even hurt madara either,nor knocked either fighters off balance,and if the budha destroyed the ground so much that a valley as made,then the statue and the kyubi would have fallen down alongside madara. C3 would evaporate a mountain and was blocked as well.

Like i said,a focused CST is just all that power spread out wide compressed into a single attack,if it has more power than shuusinsenju's attacks,then it destroys susanoo,if miraculously,it dosent work,then nagato can just absorn a tbb form kyubi,to enhance the jutsu and kill madara. If madara gets close,and attacks with his sword,nagato absorbs the sword in an instant,and deflects the shockwave right back at madara,the shockwave coupled with the shock of the ST would push them back.

If nagato somehow cant destroy susanoo,then he simply waits i out,by absorbing tbb's ,susanoo etc,he revitalzes himself,whereas madara's chakra is wasting,any shockwaves are deflected back at him,3 headed summons distract him,nagato can shoot hi CST on the ground,further distratcing themmnagato is an uzumaki,and has far more chakra than madara,with preta,he revitalizes himself,and can use the vhakra to heal his injuries like against bee,madarazls PS dosent have the amount of chakra as a v2 jin,hence it can be absorbed.all of madara's attacks are either absorbed or deflectd.

Either nagato beats him with gedo

beats him without it

or just outlasts him.
Either way,nagato wins.

 

[Lightbringer]

I don't see how the Kyuubi even adds anything? Kyuubi is just a mass of chakra, Preta Path anyone?


And how is Perfect Susano'o too much for Nagato? The best technique he has used is in conjunction with Kurama, and is just masses of chakra, which Preta Path absorbs.

Perfect Susano'o can swing and Nagato can match the swings by using Shinra Tensei or dodging it by flying.

what if the kyuubi uses melee?

And preta path doesn't automatically activate, the user has to activate it on his own.(as we've seen with Nagato being hit with amaterasu)

If Madara is faster, then he may prove to be victorious. Not to mention Nagato is still susceptible to genjutsu.

I'm not saying it's a clear win for either, I'm just giving you some evidence as to what Madara could do.

Although I do think that Nagato might have a better chance due to preta path, without it however, he'd most definitely lose.

 

[KidGamer65]

madara siad you needed the power of the senju and uchiha to control gedo,he didnt say the dna either did he?,the rinnegan contains the powers of both uchiha and senju.

No it doesn't. Otherwise he wouldn't have told us you need both to control and summon the Mazo at its full potential.

Madara's words simply said that even without the rinnegan you can still use the gedo,that proves that rinnegan can use the gedo on it's own,but if you have the uchiha or senju dna,you can control it even if you dont have the rinnegan. Why the hell would madara make reference to the dna and the rinnegan seperately if you need both?,nagato has been using gedo throughout the manga,he has summned and used it in astral form,he can use gedo. The manga shows nagato using gedo without any problem throughout part 2,madara says that EVENX WITHOUT THE RINNEGAN YOU CAN STILL CONTROL GEDO IF YOU HAVE BOTH DNAs,which means that the rinnegan controls gedo,but if you have the dna's you can still use gedo.

God. Learn. How. To. Read.

-Only Rinnegan can summon Gedo Mazo. Manga FACT.

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-Rinnegan can't be awakened without Senju and Uchiha's power.

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-Gedo can't be controlled properly without Senju and Uchiha's power.

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-Obito can properly control the Gedo due to having Senju and Uchiha's power, but can't summon it due to lacking the Rinnegan.

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WHERE DID I SAY NAGATO CANT SUMMON GEDO? He can't control it properly, that doesn't mean he can't control it at all. Learn the damn difference.

Madara telling Obito even without the Rinnegan he can still control the Mazo only shows that Rinnegan offers limited control. Stop ignoring the first sentence Madara says on the page. He clearly says that without senju and Uciha's power you can't control the Mazo properly.

You claim nagato can have gedo attack like tobi,yet tobi,couldnt even use preta when his mask was broken,nagato has had his rinnegan for several years and has mastered it,controlling gedo is no problem to him.
You say the rinnegan has no senju dna in it?,the sage,had the dna pf boh senju and uchiha,madara only awakened his rnnegan after adding senju dna to himself,the rinnegan awakens when one has the dna of both senjus and uchihas,the rinnegan posseses the dna of it's wielder.
Manga never said you need both,manga said you need either. Either you have the rinegan,which is the power of the senju and uchiha,or you have the dna of the senju and uchiha,uf you have both,good for you.

Rinnegan=Result of obtaining the power of Uchiha and Senju. That's what the manga states. Everything else is BS. If Rinnegan contained Senju and Uchiha's power saying that Rinnegan by itself isn't enough to control it wouldn't make sense.

Only an idiot would believe that. Eyes don't magically obtain DNA. He implanted the DNA in his chest not his eyeball.

Madara's PS shockwave didnt hurt any kage either,and it destroyed the entire landscape,neither did it hurt hashirama when it cur off the wood hands that held the kyubi. Going by your logic with kirin,shuusiinsenuju didnt even hurt madara either,nor knocked either fighters off balance,and if the budha destroyed the ground so much that a valley as made,then the statue and the kyubi would have fallen down alongside madara. C3 would evaporate a mountain and was blocked as well.

Madara didn't aim at the Kage nor did he aim at Hashirama as both times it hit the Mountian. Common sense.

Kirin didn't destroy the Mountain. If the Mountain was destroyed how were the Uchiha bros still standing on the mountain that Sasuke supposedly destroyed? Go read the manga.

Only a fool would believe C3 has enough power vaporize a Mountain. All it can do is take out a large portion of Suna. Mountain Busting>Village Busting.

Like i said,a focused CST is just all that power spread out wide compressed into a single attack,if it has more power than shuusinsenju's attacks,then it destroys susanoo,if miraculously,it dosent work,then nagato can just absorn a tbb form kyubi,to enhance the jutsu and kill madara. If madara gets close,and attacks with his sword,nagato absorbs the sword in an instant,and deflects the shockwave right back at madara,the shockwave coupled with the shock of the ST would push them back.

Spread out it isn't strong enough kill some villagers but focused is strong enough to rip right through Susanoo? Stop BS'ing. Large AoE attacks<Precision attacks. A Large AoE attack that simply wiped out a village which is full of buildings isn't going to shit to Susanoo. Susanoo durability>Anything in that village.

Nagato uses CST and then Madara tanks it, any little damage that might have been inflicted will be fixed and Madara stomps Nagato into the ground while he can't use Deva's powers.

If nagato somehow cant destroy susanoo,then he simply waits i out,by absorbing tbb's ,susanoo etc,he revitalzes himself,whereas madara's chakra is wasting,any shockwaves are deflected back at him,3 headed summons distract him,nagato can shoot hi CST on the ground,further distratcing themmnagato is an uzumaki,and has far more chakra than madara,with preta,he revitalizes himself,and can use the vhakra to heal his injuries like against bee,madarazls PS dosent have the amount of chakra as a v2 jin,hence it can be absorbed.all of madara's attacks are either absorbed or deflectd.

Why would he keep on firing TBBs when he knows he can absorb them?

Nope. Nagato gets fodderized during his 5 second limit by Madara's shockwaves.

Either nagato beats him with gedo

The Gedo he can't use in battle. When you show me scans of him being able to use it in battle despite the manga saying he can't control it properly then he can use it in battle.
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