Healthy Nagato vs EMS Madara

[KidGamer65]

:sy:look whose talking,how abt you read the damn manga urself.

Uchiha senju power is the power of the six paths,fact

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izanagi also requires uchiha senju power,fact

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danzo's eyes contain uchiha power and dna,as tobi said danzo possesed both the power of uchiha and senju.

Nagato is an uzumaki,which means he has senju blood as well.

Nagato made phantom dragons everytime they sealed a bijuu himself,without any stress. You say he cant control gedo properly,he has controlled gedo just as skillfully as anyne,the first time he had to use chakra receivers cuz gedo had no bijuu inside it,and thus he used his own chakra. Every other time,he has used those same dragons easily without stress.

You put all your faith in one sentence,which is laughable. In that same page,he said that even without the rinnegan,you could use gedo with senju and uchijha dna,he didnt say summon,nor control,of rinnegan could only summon gedo and not control it properly,he would have said that in his third sentence which you seem to ignore. How do you know what nagato cant do with gedo?,he made phantom dragons easily,sometimes while he was in astral form and the real body was still in amegukere,thats enough to prove he can control it,and it's a hell of a lot more proof than a damn sentence which apperntly you seem to interprete better than anyone.

Learn2Read.

-Only Rinnegan can summon Gedo Mazo. Manga FACT.

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-Rinnegan can't be awakened without Senju and Uchiha's power.

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-Gedo can't be controlled properly without Senju and Uchiha's power.

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-Obito can properly control the Gedo due to having Senju and Uchiha's power, but can't summon it due to lacking the Rinnegan.

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You lost on this point. Move on.

You say i should show you scabns of nagato using gedo in a fight?,jow about you show me a ps shockwave killing anyone,thn i'll beleve it can kill nagato LOL.

It cut a Mountain, that's all I necessary to kill him.

How about you use PS slashes of ems nly madara with pure uchha dna,rather than a madara who has hashi's cells which boosted his attacks,the shockwave is a side effect of the sword slash,they are not made seperately,if ems madara's ps slash cudnt make shockwaves strong enough to even knock hashi off his feet twice whereas do madata's knockd 5 kages off their feet when they were caught in the shockwave,then their powerlevel is different,which is true as madara claimed he tweaked madara beyond his prime.

There are no shockwaves that knocked hashi down here either

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so stay with ems madara,not edo madara.

Its already been confirmed EMS Madara's PS=Edo Madara's PS and its speculation that Hashirama's DNA increases the power of all your techs. When you have proof then you say they do.

Kyubi's bijudama,did this

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compared to this

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also the golem hit the susanoo at close range,yet it didnt even knock hashi off balance,nor even cause much damage to the area they were fighting.

Are you blind? C3 didn't even come close to Mountain size (It was barely as big as the cliff surrounding the village) while the explosion of the Bijuu Dama made the surrounding Mountains look small.

A focused CST is a prcision attack,not a wide AOE,hence the name focused.

Focusing it isn't going to increase its power so much that it shatters PS when it didn't even seriously injure an unprotected Tsunade and some Anbu fodder.

Phantom dragons,which nagato can make easily from gedo absorb chakra,once they hit ps,all that chakra is gone.

That's a Bijuu sealing technique. Get your stupid fanficion off this thread.

Chakra roar?did nothing when hashirama was at his face,kyubi working with naruto willingly is not the same as kyubi being mindelessly controlled by madara,see the difference between oro's part 1 hashi and current oro's hashi to comfirm,chakra roar is doing nothing to gedo mazo.

Kyuubi is Kyuubi. Chakra roar comes from the Kyuubi so it can use chakra roar. End of story. Not to mention do you have scans of Kyuubi roaring right at Hashirama?

Also Current Edo Hashirama was revived at full power due to the jutsu being made more efficient, not because he was being controlled, read the manga.

PS isnt cutting CT,it is in the sky,

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far above the mountains,far above the reach of the sword,unless madara sword can go 70 000 m. Only a bijuu dama would do.

Then Bijuu Dama nukes it.

Ems madara's susanoo's shockwaves pale in comparison to his edo shockwaves.

Assumption? Yeah, I think it is. EMS Madara shot is in a circle while Edo shot in a straight line. Obviously there are going to be differences.

PS Sword cuts Nagato up during the 5 second interval of Shinra Tensei. Also, ST's cooldown is not lower. Nagato's jutsu simple execute faster.

 

[AGoodBoy]

-Gedo can't be controlled properly without Senju and Uchiha's power.

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"You can't awaken the rinnegan without havign both the uchiha's and the senju's power"
This tells us the requirements for rinnegan; Uchiha and Senju DNA.

"And you can't handle the mazou properly."
Continuing from the last point, he says you can't control the mazou properly without the rinnegan.

"Half of your body is Made of Senju Cells."
"Even if you don't awaken the rinnegan, you can still control the mazou"
He now speaks directly to obito. We know obito is uchiha, and madara says that half of his body is now Senju. This following his previous statement of Uchiha + senju = Rinnegan.
Hence, though obito hasn't awakened the rinnegan yet, he still has the requirements for it (Senju and Uchiha blood). Because of this, he doesn't directly need the rinnegan in order to control the mazou. But, The rinnegan allows the user to control the mazou. "You can't awaken the rinnegan without... And you can't handle the mazou properly" Without these two DNA, you're unable to awaken the rinnegan which allow for the control of the mazou, but with the DNA, though you haven't awoken the rinnegan yet, you still have the ability to control the mazou because you have the potential for the rinnegan dwelling inside you. Rinnegan is what is necessary for full control over the mazou. It just so happens that senju + uchiha is what allows for the rinnegan, thus allowing partial control in itself if a person possess these two DNA but not the rinnegan directly.

Nagato has shown use of the mazou in any case. It just so happens that it has never been necessary for his fights, especially since 6th paths can't summon it and it requires nagato directly (who is usually a good distance away) to summon.

 

[KidGamer65]

"You can't awaken the rinnegan without havign both the uchiha's and the senju's power"
This tells us the requirements for rinnegan; Uchiha and Senju DNA.

Just gonna stop you right here as that is NOT how the sentence is formatted.

"You can't awaken the rinnegan without having both the uchiha's and the senju's power"

"Furthermore you cant handle the statue properly"

That clearly means that Senju and Uchiha DNA are needed to:

Awaken Rinnegan, and control the Mazo.

Both parts of the sentence refer to the necessity of Senju and Uchiha's power/DNA.

This nulls the rest of your post as Rinnegan only gives limited control while the DNA gives full control.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Just gonna stop you right here as that is NOT how the sentence is formatted.

"You can't awaken the rinnegan without having both the uchiha's and the senju's power"

"Furthermore you cant handle the statue properly"

That clearly means that Senju and Uchiha DNA are needed to:

Awaken Rinnegan, and control the Mazo.

This nulls the rest of your post as Rinnegan only gives limited control while the DNA gives full control.

what are you talking about? I clicked your scan. You made up thing there that aren't in your scan. I literally split my windows half and half and typed the scan word for word. what i typed is actually what's there, not your furthermore. Infact, even then, it's STILL saying that rinnegan is required to use gedo properly.

It says you need senju and uchiha dna to awaken the rinnegan to control the gedo masu properly. Without Senju and uchiha DNa you can't awaken the rinnegan, therefore you can't even control the gedo. But, nagato doesn't need to awaken it since he got a pair implanted, he bypassed the need for senju and uchiha DNA which are required to awaken the eyes so that the jutsu could be used. Kakashi isn't an uchiha but he can use every uchiha ability. And, before you bring up that scan about what itachi said, even sasuke, a pure uchiha, got caught in a watered down tsukuyomi for an extended time.

Uchiha + Senju is required to awaken the eyes since there were none before. But, if you already have a pair, you don't need that.
Gedo masu control is an ability of Rinnegan, not senju + Uchiha DNA. That's why obito couldn't control it properly without rinnegan. He had the basic ingredients, but he didn't have the finished propduct (rinnegan). It's right there in the scan...

"That clearly means that Senju and Uchiha DNA are needed to:

Awaken Rinnegan, and control the Mazo."
Your quote. He already awakened, therefore that whole uchiha/senju thing is no longer required. It was only required because there was no pair of rinnegan eyes lying around, so madara had to go around it the hard way.

 

[shelke]

^ Does he have any one of those genetic traits? Enough to warrant a proper control going by Madara's statement?

 

[3MESSIAH]

if nagato can absorb PS and its attacks then nagato wins...if not then madara stomps

 

[forsaken Raven]

When Nagato can do this then you can say he can use it. Stop making up abilities for him so he can have a chance against Madara.

-Nagato being able to control Gedo: Fanfiction
-Nagato being able to use chakra chains: Fanfictino.
-Gedo being able to suppress chakra in battle: Fanfiction.
-Nagato's summons being able to beat the Kyuubi: BS.

Comparing CST to Shinsuusenju's attack? Just stop...

agreed.but what about chibaku tensei?i think he can get PS with chibaku tensei.but only if madara dont know anything about chibaku tensei weakness!

 

[TheTailedSage]

agreed.but what about chibaku tensei?i think he can get PS with chibaku tensei.but only if madara dont know anything about chibaku tensei weakness!

It took itachi a quick analysis on how to destroy chibaku tensei. Not saying madaras more intelligent but from what we have seen it wouldn't take him long to clock the weakness of CT. With his grand fire anialation technique it could destroy the core. Even his fireball jutsu will destroy it.

 

[AGoodBoy]

^ Does he have any one of those genetic traits? Enough to warrant a proper control going by Madara's statement?

Rinnegan is what warrants a proper control.

Why is this so hard...

Rinnegan offers full control.
Uchiha + Senju without Rinnegan offer Partial control.

He said you need uchiha + Senju DNA to unlock rinnegan, which offers the full control(the rinnegan). But, nagato already has the rinnegan. He already has what gives full control.

IF nagato didn't have full control; He wouldn't be able to summon Gedo to do what he wanted it to do, nor would he be able to manipulate gedo into absorbing the tailed beasts. It's his full control that allows this.

Nagato doesn't have partial control; MS obito did. It's why obito waited until he got the rinnegan, in the first place, before he ever summoned masu. He couldn't fully control it without the eyes.

 

[KidGamer65]

Rinnegan is what warrants a proper control.

Why is this so hard...

Rinnegan offers full control.
Uchiha + Senju without Rinnegan offer Partial control.

He said you need uchiha + Senju DNA to unlock rinnegan, which offers the full control(the rinnegan). But, nagato already has the rinnegan. He already has what gives full control.

IF nagato didn't have full control; He wouldn't be able to summon Gedo to do what he wanted it to do, nor would he be able to manipulate gedo into absorbing the tailed beasts. It's his full control that allows this.

Nagato doesn't have partial control; MS obito did. It's why obito waited until he got the rinnegan, in the first place, before he ever summoned masu. He couldn't fully control it without the eyes.

-Sigh-

"You can't awaken the rinnegan without having both the uchiha's and the senju's power

"and you cant handle the statue properly"

This sentence's topic is about what happens if you don't have the underlined.

-You can't control the Mazo properly.
-You can't awaken Rinnegan.

What you believe is that its saying you can't control the Mazo properly if you don't have the Rinnegan but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

-Take the part about the DNA out and you have You can't awaken the Rinnegan and you can't control the Mazo properly. Does that make any sense to you? Nope. Take the part about the Rinnegan out and you have "without having Uchiha and Senju's power the Statue can't be handled properly.

Madara clearly said that you need the DNA for the Rinnengan and to be able to control the Mazo. Basic sentence structuring.

@bold: Baseless assumption.

 

[genii96]

Learn2Read.

-Only Rinnegan can summon Gedo Mazo. Manga FACT.

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-Rinnegan can't be awakened without Senju and Uchiha's power.

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-Gedo can't be controlled properly without Senju and Uchiha's power.

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-Obito can properly control the Gedo due to having Senju and Uchiha's power, but can't summon it due to lacking the Rinnegan.

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You lost on this point. Move on.


It cut a Mountain, that's all I necessary to kill him.


Its already been confirmed EMS Madara's PS=Edo Madara's PS and its speculation that Hashirama's DNA increases the power of all your techs. When you have proof then you say they do.



Are you blind? C3 didn't even come close to Mountain size (It was barely as big as the cliff surrounding the village) while the explosion of the Bijuu Dama made the surrounding Mountains look small.



Focusing it isn't going to increase its power so much that it shatters PS when it didn't even seriously injure an unprotected Tsunade and some Anbu fodder.


That's a Bijuu sealing technique. Get your stupid fanficion off this thread.


Kyuubi is Kyuubi. Chakra roar comes from the Kyuubi so it can use chakra roar. End of story. Not to mention do you have scans of Kyuubi roaring right at Hashirama?

Also Current Edo Hashirama was revived at full power due to the jutsu being made more efficient, not because he was being controlled, read the manga.



Then Bijuu Dama nukes it.



Assumption? Yeah, I think it is. EMS Madara shot is in a circle while Edo shot in a straight line. Obviously there are going to be differences.

PS Sword cuts Nagato up during the 5 second interval of Shinra Tensei. Also, ST's cooldown is not lower. Nagato's jutsu simple execute faster.

power of uchiha and senju=power of the 6 paths

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nagato is of senju bloodline and can use gedo

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madara's eyes contain uchiha dna and power,and thus with senju genes and madara's eyes,he can use gedo,the manga scan above shows it,he never said he cudnt use it properly he said he and madara were the only ones who could use it,your belief that he cant use it well is fanfiction and assumption,nagato posseses senju bloodline and uchiha eyes,thus he can use it just fine. Your scan says it takes uchha and senju to use it well,nagato has both,so he can use it. Nagato psseses senju genes,and uchiha's power, End of story


basless argument is baseless,it was never comfirmed at all that edo madara's ps=ems madara's ps and even if it is,it's not the one that foyght hashi whom i SHOWED you scans of his ps sword while being serious,compared to his edo ps while being unserious,the power difference showed there,madara's 2 strikes did no shockwave despite being serious minded,edo madara's ps did a massive shockwvae whil just showing off. Orochimaru made a stronger binding on the hokages with hashi's cells thus hit got stronger,danzo used hashi's cells and he could use 10 sharingans,and his ka only had a cool down of a day or so. The difference between the two PS is there,no argiment,the casual swing of an edo madara surpasses the serious swing of an alive ems madara

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one ps is obviously superior,both swung their swords,the shockwaves come from the swing,and nly one made it. End of story.

What are you talking abt?,madara attacked hashirama is a straight slash,which hashi caught,then he used the other sword to cut a circular pattern which was the second slash,both made squat shockwaves,there is no argument there.

Preta is a sealing technique too,phantom dragons seal chakra,bijuus are made of chakra,nothing more,nagato just wanted the chakras of bijuus,phantom dragons seal chakra into the statue,bijuus are pure chakra,PS is pure chakra,it will get taken up.

Ps shockwaves do trash here,ems madara dosent have those shockwaves,thus nagato has no problem,especially as he can just stand atop gedo and fight madara.

If you say that cutting in a circular pattern is different than a straight line,the same thing happens with CST,in a straight line,all the power of the konoha busting tech is compressed to a singlr target,PS cant take village busting techniques,not to mention the fact that nagatp absorbing any bijudama or susanoo would allow him use that chakra to increase his CST power further. Hedo's chakra chains would easily supress the susanoo.

Nagato with gedo wins mid diff

 

[theTobiramaSenju]

Nagato FTW!

 

[KidGamer65]

power of uchiha and senju=power of the 6 paths

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nagato is of senju bloodline and can use gedo

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madara's eyes contain uchiha dna and power,and thus with senju genes and madara's eyes,he can use gedo,the manga scan above shows it,he never said he cudnt use it properly he said he and madara were the only ones who could use it,your belief that he cant use it well is fanfiction and assumption,nagato posseses senju bloodline and uchiha eyes,thus he can use it just fine. Your scan says it takes uchha and senju to use it well,nagato has both,so he can use it. Nagato psseses senju genes,and uchiha's power, End of story

Uchiha+Senju=Rikudou Sennin, don't know why you are mentioning this as it doesn't help your argument at all.]

Back to the eyes argument? The Uchiha power of Madara's eyes is the Sharingan, which Nagato can't use nor does he have access to its abilities. So, he can't control Gedo Mazo When you have scans of him using Uchiha's power then you can say he can use Gedo Mazo. This is my last time responding on this point. End of story. Facts will be facts and fanboys will deny them.

basless argument is baseless,it was never comfirmed at all that edo madara's ps=ems madara's ps and even if it is,it's not the one that foyght hashi whom i SHOWED you scans of his ps sword while being serious,compared to his edo ps while being unserious,the power difference showed there,madara's 2 strikes did no shockwave despite being serious minded,edo madara's ps did a massive shockwvae whil just showing off. Orochimaru made a stronger binding on the hokages with hashi's cells thus hit got stronger,danzo used hashi's cells and he could use 10 sharingans,and his ka only had a cool down of a day or so. The difference between the two PS is there,no argiment,the casual swing of an edo madara surpasses the serious swing of an alive ems madara



one ps is obviously superior,both swung their swords,the shockwaves come from the swing,and nly one made it. End of story.

What are you talking abt?,madara attacked hashirama is a straight slash,which hashi caught,then he used the other sword to cut a circular pattern which was the second slash,both made squat shockwaves,there is no argument there.

The second and first swings were completely different swings. The swing Edo Madara did to finish off the Kage and the one he used to try and slash Hashirama were the same and caused on shockwaves.

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Nonetheless Mountain cutting shockwaves bisect Nagato whether you want to believe it or not. If they can cut through Mountains while also destroying Mountain Ranges they easily cut through Humans. End of story.

Preta is a sealing technique too,phantom dragons seal chakra,bijuus are made of chakra,nothing more,nagato just wanted the chakras of bijuus,phantom dragons seal chakra into the statue,bijuus are pure chakra,PS is pure chakra,it will get taken up.

Preta is sealing jutsu that is designed to seal chakra away. Phantom Dragons aren't. So, keep your fanfiction out of this thread.

@bold: That's why they have flesh right? Just stop.

Ps shockwaves do trash here,ems madara dosent have those shockwaves,thus nagato has no problem,especially as he can just stand atop gedo and fight madara.

Gedo can't be controlled and you still don't have proof that he can control it like Obito.

Mountain Cutting Shockwaves bisect Gedoless Nagato during his time limit.

If you say that cutting in a circular pattern is different than a straight line,the same thing happens with CST,in a straight line,all the power of the konoha busting tech is compressed to a singlr target,PS cant take village busting techniques,not to mention the fact that nagatp absorbing any bijudama or susanoo would allow him use that chakra to increase his CST power further. Hedo's chakra chains would easily supress the susanoo.

Nagato with gedo wins mid diff

Mountain Busters>Village Busters. CST didn't even kill Tsunade, focused or not isn't shattering PS no matter how much you fangasm over the technique.

When you have scans of Gedo's chakra chains suppressing anything in combat in the fashion you are speaking of then you can use it in debate..but as usual with you, this is just fanfiction.

This is my last reply to a guy who constantly makes up abilities and denies manga facts.

 

[genii96]

Uchiha Senju=Rikudou Sennin, don't know why you are mentioning this as it doesn't help your argument at all.]

Back to the eyes argument? The Uchiha power of Madara's eyes is the Sharingan, which Nagato can't use nor does he have access to its abilities. So, he can't control Gedo Mazo When you have scans of him using Uchiha's power then you can say he can use Gedo Mazo. This is my last time responding on this point. End of story. Facts will be facts and fanboys will deny them.



The second and first swings were completely different swings. The swing Edo Madara did to finish off the Kage and the one he used to try and slash Hashirama were the same and caused on shockwaves.

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Nonetheless Mountain cutting shockwaves bisect Nagato whether you want to believe it or not. If they can cut through Mountains while also destroying Mountain Ranges they easily cut through Humans. End of story.


Preta is sealing jutsu that is designed to seal chakra away. Phantom Dragons aren't. So, keep your fanfiction out of this thread.

@bold: That's why they have flesh right? Just stop.


Gedo can't be controlled and you still don't have proof that he can control it like Obito.

Mountain Cutting Shockwaves bisect Gedoless Nagato during his time limit.



Mountain Busters>Village Busters. CST didn't even kill Tsunade, focused or not isn't shattering PS no matter how much you fangasm over the technique.

When you have scans of Gedo's chakra chains suppressing anything in combat in the fashion you are speaking of then you can use it in debate..but as usual with you, this is just fanfiction.

This is my last reply to a guy who constantly makes up abilities and denies manga facts.

i dont know why u keep trying to avoid manga facts blatantly looking at you.whether you like it or not,nagato has senju blood and madara's eyes,and as zetsu said,he can use it. So if an uchiha evolves his eyes from a sharingan to the rinnegan,it's no longer his power?,whether rinnegan or sharingan,both belong to madara's eyes,and both are his power,
zetsu said it clearly.he and madara were the only ones who could use the gedo. Argue all you like,fanboys will be fanboys.

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aht the hell are you talking about?,the PS straight slash that he used to try to hut hashi didnt make a single shockwave,you yourself identified this,whay are you runningatound in circles?,the only shockwaves were created by the second slash,there are no shockwaves frm the first slash,and it was a serious one. Edo madara's casual shockwaves destroyed the mountain range,ems madara's sstraight slash did squat,or are yo blind?,mountain busting shockwaves didnt kill any kage,em madara's weaker ones didnt even bother hashirama,ass he made no mention of theshockwaves when he caught the sword,and there were no visible damage done by the first slash. The second one made the shockwaves,but it did nothing to his opponent. Naato can sit safely on gedo,those shockwaves are doind squat to gedo,being able to cut mountains,dosent mean nagato gets killed,rasenshuriken can cut mountains,yet it was easily repelled by a simple ST.

When ems madara can make edo madara shockwaves,then you can say it.nagato dosent need to use deva for the shockwaves cuz he is on gedo



Bijuus are living forms of chakra,that is baic stuff,phantom dragons were also used to take the souls of humans against hanzo,except with the limited chakra supply,he could make only one,they seal chakra into the gedo. Bijuus were created from the chakra of the juubi,they are nothing but chakra in living forms,just about anyone knows this.

Nagato controlling gedo is a manga fact

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chakra chains suppress chakra,which PS is,claiming it cant be used in battle is just a fanboy exuse LOL.

You right,responding to a guy that ignores manga facts is pointless,they are right at your face and you just cant accept them.

 

[Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg]

any Madara vs not Hashi thread is pointless as far as Madara fapboys can't come up with anything else than "ps solos" "ps is unbreakable" "ps >>>> everything in NV" "ps makes Madara god/So6P tier" and then people say Itachi has the worst fanbase U_U

 

[Nous]

Healthy, Prime Nagato is a hypothetical character. However I think such a fight would result in Madara's defeat but it is too close.

 

[Strict]

KidGamer and Genii ended up in an endless discussion about Madara and Nagato, stretching over the last thousands topic about these two characters. Still debating whether Nagato's control over the Mazo is proper. xD

ot: It was stated that it isn't.

 

[Edo Odin]

I can't believe people are still debating on this. :|

 

[Invsblphntm]

Nagato would thrash Madara.


I don't see why people believe Madara and Hashirama are "God-tier" when people like Nagato, Obito, and Naruto are right on their levels.