Hashirama is the real villain

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

Hashirama did make a lot of bad decisions. He is partially responsible for what has become of the Ninja world today. He selected his own brother, who he knew never liked the Uchiha-Clan, and then his Bijuu distribution can just never be ignored. Every man is responsible in his own manner. Tobirama is responsible for not accepting Madara, when the latter was shown to mingle with Senju and was on friendly terms with Hashirama. He chose the village name and helped it built with the rest of the clan - both of them were the founding fathers. Tobirama was clearly shown to not put his hatred behind. Thus when Madara had finally let go of his past, he rekindled those flames of doubt.

As I mentioned, lay blame on everyone. Hashirama is responsible for his own poor decisions and I wouldn't even touch upon Tobirama.

Yes i agree. Its not fair to blame Hashirama for everyhing of course. But he made a very important decision when choosing Tobirama as the second. That changes the destiny of the ninja world we know today. For dimplomatic reasons he should have choosen Madara, as promised. Im not saying Madara would have been the greatest Hokage or that Madara even was the right choice, but for the sake of the Uchiha v Senju feud that would have helped Konoha settel down tot he idea that Uchiha are equal to Senju. But instead Hashirama made a succession of bad choices, in return making him the worst Hokage and instigator of the current feud. Madara has every right to be seeking revenge.

 

[KingHashirama]

That's obviously false, as we have seen Madara and Hashirama as kids, both said they will build their village in that forest area which became Konoha which is what they build together. Both Madara and Hashirama founded the village. Not Hashirama.

Time to reread the flashbacks. Madara actually thought that Hashirama's idea was a foolish idea, and stated that only he could come up with such wild ideas. And then after the whole split, it was only Hashirama's dream to build the village, Madara was no longer an that path. (Not saying Madara didn't dream of it, but the only to follow up on it was the Senju boy)

And false, Hashirama is the true founder, even the uchiha acknowledged this. By the logic you guys use to say Madara is the founder, you can very well say the nameless weaklings of the clans are also the founders.

Hashirama neither belonged to the Senju clan or the Konoha village, the man was adored by all. (In case you bring up that he was a senju clan leader and etc)

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[Trea]

Madara's own clan did not vote for him to become Hokage twice. It was not up to Hashirama or Tobirama who would be chosen as hokage. At that point in time everyone got to choose the hokage since the village was new. Hashirama cared about him and thought he was a good person and a good friend. Madara chose to walk away, Hashi tried to stop him.

As for Tobirama, he made no secret of the fact that he did not feel about Madara the way his brother did, but neither did he hate him. He was just being honest when he told Hashi that Madara would not be second hokage because his own clan was not willing to vote for him. Tobirama was cautious about the Uchiha, considering that the Uchiha and Senju had killed members of each others family I could understand why. Tobirama was not wrong to give them the responsibility of the police force but he was wrong for putting them at the outskirts of the village. It isolated them too much. Perhaps if they felt more integrated into the village there would have been no reason for the massacre.

Madara made his own choices.

 

[Zol]

I'm back with another "controversial" thread. This might not be the most popular belief, but it's the truth.

Hashirama created the Madara we have today, the angry Madara, the vengefull Madara. The Madara that was betrayed by the very friend he had closest to him. The Madara that had his little brother killed by the second Hokage

Back in the day, Hashirama and Madara where friends, they grew up together and where almost like brothers.
Then as they grew up Madara started to notice the discrimination of the Uchiha in Konoha
But his good friend Hashirama did not discriminate him, in fact Hashirama said that if he was to be the first Hokage, he would make Madara the second Hokage. And the Senju & Uchiha would live side by side.

Well.... This was all a lie from Hashirama There was no democracy, the Uchiha where discriminated and persecuted under his reign, and the promise he made to Madara? Well, that was just another lie, he instead made his brother Tobirama the second Hokage, the very man that Murdered Madara's Brother Izuna.

So to summarize, the Madara we have today would never had even existed if it wherent for the many lies, deceit and manipulation of Hashirama and his Brother the coward Tobirama

Madara was left with no other choice but to leave Konoha, imagine having to leave the very place you founded? Your home, your friend, your family?

The leaf village was as much Madaras dream as Hashiramas! Hashirama had no right to rip that dream out of Madaras heart. Only a true black-hearted, egocentric, manipulative and evil man does such a thing, and that man is Hashirama!

No. Just no.

-The Uchiha weren't discriminated under Hashirama, that's exactly why they didn't believe and follow Madara anymore.

-We don't know anything about how Tobirama came into power and if Hashirama was even alive at that time.

-Tobirama didn't exactly "murder" Izuna, he killed him in battle, just like Madara did with many Senju as well.

-Madara himself discarded their dream in favor of his "dreamworld" he wants to create with Mugen Tsukuyomi.

 

[~Sky~]

KH didn't disappoint.

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

KH didn't disappoint.

What did he do? Throw aroud a few redundant comments and kiss Hashiramas ass for a few pages. Stop kissing his ass, then again your probably just his alt account, so im actually speaking to kinghashirama now, get a life.

 

[-Spoiler-]

What did he do? Throw aroud a few redundant comments and kiss Hashiramas ass for a few pages. Stop kissing his ass, then again your probably just his alt account, so im actually speaking to kinghashirama now, get a life.

Why you mad thou? and who would add premium to a alt and that amount of post count?

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

Tobirama a coward? The guy stood up to Hashirama and said no to Madara being Hokage.

i dont recall hashi using his STFU face to tobirama that makes him do exactly that

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

Why you mad thou? and who would add premium to a alt and that amount of post count?

Not mad, i actually think this is hilarious! Never seen this hard fanboyism in my life. Its kinda funny.
Maybe hes just that kind og guy, that gives his alt a prem account and spends alot of time posting on his own threads and licking his own ass. That gives a natural high amount of posts

 

[~Sky~]

What did he do? Throw aroud a few redundant comments and kiss Hashiramas ass for a few pages. Stop kissing his ass, then again your probably just his alt account, so im actually speaking to kinghashirama now, get a life.

Not our fault you couldn't counter him.

Now, make like a good boy and stop making threads.

 

[Valhorus]

I don't think so.

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

Not our fault you couldn't counter him.

Now, make like a good boy and stop making threads.

I dont counter illogical comments, and if you dont like my threads why the **** are you here? GTFO!

 

[Conspirator.]

Not really.

 

[~Sky~]

I dont counter illogical comments, and if you dont like my threads why the **** are you here? GTFO!

You don't like illogical comments? Read your own OP.

Not my fault your one-sided logic failed you yet again.

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

You don't like illogical comments? Read your own OP.

Not my fault your one-sided logic failed you yet again.

All i heard was blablablablablabla, butthurtfanboyism blablablablablablab

 

[~Sky~]

All i heard was blablablablablabla, butthurtfanboyism blablablablablablab

Don't care.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Sorry Sage you didn't get the hot thread you wanted.

 

[shelke]

Only posting to you, since you might provide a good argument.

@Bold, He never selected his own brother. The Decision of the Hokage had to be made by everyone at that time. And Tobirama didn't hate the uchiha-clan, he was simply cautious. There is a big difference.

@Italics, They were never Konoha's to began with. No one in Konoha had the ability to handle them. The giving of the tailed beast was a country decision, not simply a Hashirama decision. And it worked.

@Underline, Hashirama in respect to Madara named the village after what Madara purposed. Only Hashirama was considered the founder.

By that time democracy was gone from Konoha's governmental system. We know for a fact that Tobirama's political system for the Militia setups was adopted by all hidden villages and that includes the arbitrary setup where the Kage appoints the next Kage, together with the Jounin Council, completely taking away the basis of democracy.

Tobirama was not simply cautious of the Clan; I would never agree to this sentiment. He truly did loathe the Clan for what had happened to his family members, which is ironical as I find ever member here stating that Madara never discarded his past, when in reality, Madara lost everything and still gave up his loathing and embraced Hashirama and his own past ideals. Tobirama never did. It's this man that started the whole Chain reaction of conflict by not abiding by the ideals on which the Village was built on - equality for all.

He did everything to thwart their entry into the Jounin Council, which had a great deciding factor as to whom would take the Hokage seat. The fact that Hokaegs were given the power to select the next one meant that he could always appoint someone he saw as fitting to carry on his own ideals. It's like appointing a true successor. He started an illegal surveillance on the Clan, when he had no right to monitor them after they had ousted their own Leader. In fact, he had no political, ethical, or moral right to spy on a Clan's activates when they were the founding fathers just like his own Clan.

It would be interesting to espy the morbidity of his lopsidedness, as he never instructed Hizuren to stop the surveillance and the Elders again followed his own line of thought. All this, is not and cannot be declared a coincidence. I attribute the fall and inhuman slaughter of Uchiha Clan to his disturbing actions.

Precisely, Hashirama captured the Tailed-beasts and used them as political bargaining chips, escalating the violence between Clans that emerged as Powerful Independent Military Nexuses in shape of hidden villages after Tobirama's poor Village infrastructure set-up. Both of these brothers didn't contain the blood-shed, they intensified it by forming alliances with Clans that opposed others. The opposition clans joined other villages and a cycle of violence started anew; this time, with many clans involved together with the Tailed Beasts thrown in the equation.

No, both the Senju and Uchiha formed a peace treaty and founded the village. The voting took place after other clans were assimilated into the village. Hashirama's statement that, "do you want to throw everything away that we have worked so hard for", is a testament to Madara's own contributions.

 

[Bronze]

Time to reread the flashbacks. Madara actually thought that Hashirama's idea was a foolish idea, and stated that only he could come up with such wild ideas. And then after the whole split, it was only Hashirama's dream to build the village, Madara was no longer an that path. (Not saying Madara didn't dream of it, but the only to follow up on it was the Senju boy)

And false, Hashirama is the true founder, even the uchiha acknowledged this. By the logic you guys use to say Madara is the founder, you can very well say the nameless weaklings of the clans are also the founders.

Hashirama neither belonged to the Senju clan or the Konoha village, the man was adored by all. (In case you bring up that he was a senju clan leader and etc)

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Do any Uchiha knew Madara meeting with Hashirama as kids? No. Same applies for Senju. I don't care what the village think. I saw Madara and Hashirama founding the village themselves. Period.

 

[Jikukan]

I'm back with another "controversial" thread. This might not be the most popular belief, but it's the truth.

Hashirama created the Madara we have today, the angry Madara, the vengefull Madara. The Madara that was betrayed by the very friend he had closest to him. The Madara that had his little brother killed by the second Hokage

Back in the day, Hashirama and Madara where friends, they grew up together and where almost like brothers.
Then as they grew up Madara started to notice the discrimination of the Uchiha in Konoha
But his good friend Hashirama did not discriminate him, in fact Hashirama said that if he was to be the first Hokage, he would make Madara the second Hokage. And the Senju & Uchiha would live side by side.

Well.... This was all a lie from Hashirama There was no democracy, the Uchiha where discriminated and persecuted under his reign, and the promise he made to Madara? Well, that was just another lie, he instead made his brother Tobirama the second Hokage, the very man that Murdered Madara's Brother Izuna.

So to summarize, the Madara we have today would never had even existed if it wherent for the many lies, deceit and manipulation of Hashirama and his Brother the coward Tobirama

Madara was left with no other choice but to leave Konoha, imagine having to leave the very place you founded? Your home, your friend, your family?

The leaf village was as much Madaras dream as Hashiramas! Hashirama had no right to rip that dream out of Madaras heart. Only a true black-hearted, egocentric, manipulative and evil man does such a thing, and that man is Hashirama!

You know you are wrong with this one