Hashirama is the real villain

[Vega]

I think it is more so that Hashirama did what needed to be done for the village's success. Tobirama mentions that the people of the village (and the Uchiha) recognize that Hashirama was the true founder/creator of the village and that the possibility of Madara being hokage is unlikely.

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. Madara would not have been the people's choice therefore restraining the potential success of the village's future in terms of cooperation between key leaders such as Madara and Tobirama. I don't think Hashirama is evil but yes he had screw ups.

 

[Fresco]

Again, people can't hold Madara accountable for his own actions. Its like its everyone else's fault except Madara. Killing all of Hashirama's and Tobirama's brothers plus all of the other Senju is okay I guess since its a war. But Tobirama killing Izuna? That's the worst thing ever! The people wanting Hashirama and Tobirama to be Hokage over Madara in a nice, democratic fashion? Yeah that's terrible too. Should have given it to Madara because he just deserves it more. All I see here are a bunch of Madara apologetics who can't come to acceptance that the guy was batshit crazy. The guys actions have led to the death of thousands of people. Madara manipulating Obito into staging the Kyuubi attack, which further alienated the Uchiha from the rest of the village, being one of them. You know, Hashirama and Tobirama lost brothers too, but unlike Madara, they didn't go out committing countless murders over some ****ed up ideology. He fell victim to the curse of hatred, giving more reason for Tobirama to become weary of them. So in the end, Madara ****ed himself and his clan.

Also, Hashirama put the village before Madara. You're an idiot to blame him for that.

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

Lawl, Hashirama is a bad guy and Madara is the good guy ( judging from the previous thread) You are probably the only person who seriously believes that.

Do you know how to read? No one ever said Madara was a good guy, only you did. GO back and read the other thread again before making useless comments. My point being that Hashirama is as douchbag and a liar traitor. And Madara wanted to revenge that.

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

I think it is more so that Hashirama did what needed to be done for the village's success. Tobirama mentions that the people of the village (and the Uchiha) recognize that Hashirama was the true founder/creator of the village and that the possibility of Madara being hokage is unlikely.

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. Madara would not have been the people's choice therefore restraining the potential success of the village's future in terms of cooperation between key leaders such as Madara and Tobirama. I don't think Hashirama is evil but yes he had screw ups.

Who gave Hashirama to make the decision to do whats needed for the village? Madara is as much a founder of Konoha as Hashirama. Thats my point here. Madara wad cast away and "king Hashirama" wanted to do things his was.

 

[~Sky~]

KingHashirama is needed.

 

[Vega]

Who gave Hashirama to make the decision to do whats needed for the village? Madara is as much a founder of Konoha as Hashirama. Thats my point here. Madara wad cast away and "king Hashirama" wanted to do things his was.

Madara was a founder of Konoha, yes. But it was Hashirama who crafted the idea of the village in the first place. Hashirama had always desired peace through coalition with the Uchiha while Madara looked to war (much to his brother's will)

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. Even before he left, Hashirama wanted Madara's support and input to help the village. If Madara truly wanted to help the village he could have done so as Hashirama's advisor, much as Danzo was to Hiruzen (in fact being he could handle the darkness of the village). Instead Madara cherished Mugen Tsukuyomi as his true dream.

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In the end it was Madara's idealism that caused the drift between him and Hashirama.

 

[KingHashirama]

- Name the lies said by Tobirama and Hashirama

- How is someone who was trying to make someone the first hokage and then after that failure, trying to make the person work up to become the second Hokage, responsible for that idiots actions?

- Madara simply turned back into the way he was when Izuna died, Hashirama was the one to convert him back.. and then Madara got hurt over not becoming Hokage.


The way you talk about them is, like they were children.. no they were men. Men are responsible for their own actions, no matter the past. You are still liable for your own actions.

He did that to revenge Hashirama, to make Hashirama pay for what he did to him and his brother.

The same Hashirama who spared his life, while he could have easily killed the Uchiha and Madara after killing Madara? That Hashirama?

Madara was a founder of Konoha, yes. But it was Hashirama who crafted the idea of the village in the first place. Hashirama had always desired peace through coalition with the Uchiha while Madara looked to war (much to his brother's will)

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. Even before he left, Hashirama wanted Madara's support and input to help the village. If Madara truly wanted to help the village he could have done so as Hashirama's advisor, much as Danzo was to Hiruzen (in fact being he could handle the darkness of the village). Instead Madara cherished Mugen Tsukuyomi as his true dream.

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In the end it was Madara's idealism that caused the drift between him and Hashirama.

@Bold, sadly at that time he wasn't recognized as a founder. =x

 

[iNotorious]

King has arrived!

Someone bring the butter!

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OT: Hashirama is a good person.

 

[bashkim]

Sure is Hashi a villain, because he tried to fool him. He never had a chance to became Kage, because the Senjus would never accepted such a thing.

 

[KingHashirama]

Sure is Hashi a villain, because he tried to fool him. He never had a chance to became Kage, because the Senjus would never accepted such a thing.

@Bold, since when were the Senju encharge of who became Hokage? And the same senju who listened to Hashirama, when he decided to spare Madara and join?

The decision wasn't made by just the village.. it was the country itself also. Plus, it was only reasonable to have him as the first Hokage..

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It really had hardly to do with them not accepting him. But the people of the country wanting Hashirama as the Hokage over anyone else.


Same method of how we had General Washington become the first president.It wasn't that Jefforson wouldn't be accepted, it was more that the country needed a strong leader to stabilize it for a while and to kick off the government.

 

[Tera Path]

Using this method we can also say that Hashirama's dad/mom are the actual villians, because they created Hashi.
We can also say it's Madara's parents who are the actual villians, for creating Madara, and their parents, and their parents, and the so6p, and space, and time and god and Kishi.

So on and so forth.

Not sure if someone already posted something like this but #yolo.

 

[bashkim]

@Bold, since when were the Senju encharge of who became Hokage? And the same senju who listened to Hashirama, when he decided to spare Madara and join?

The decision wasn't made by just the village.. it was the country itself also. Plus, it was only reasonable to have him as the first Hokage..

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It really had hardly to do with them not accepting him. But the people of the country wanting Hashirama as the Hokage over anyone else.


Same method of how we had General Washington become the first president.It wasn't that Jefforson wouldn't be accepted, it was more that the country needed a strong leader to stabilize it for a while and to kick off the government.

Thanks I forgot about this , you are right.

 

[KingHashirama]

Thanks I forgot about this , you are right.

no problemo broskie! xD

 

[shelke]

Hashirama did make a lot of bad decisions. He is partially responsible for what has become of the Ninja world today. He selected his own brother, who he knew never liked the Uchiha-Clan, and then his Bijuu distribution can just never be ignored. Every man is responsible in his own manner. Tobirama is responsible for not accepting Madara, when the latter was shown to mingle with Senju and was on friendly terms with Hashirama. He chose the village name and helped it built with the rest of the clan - both of them were the founding fathers. Tobirama was clearly shown to not put his hatred behind. Thus when Madara had finally let go of his past, he rekindled those flames of doubt.

As I mentioned, lay blame on everyone. Hashirama is responsible for his own poor decisions and I wouldn't even touch upon Tobirama.

 

[KingHashirama]

Hashirama did make a lot of bad decisions. He is partially responsible for what has become of the Ninja world today. He selected his own brother, who he knew never liked the Uchiha-Clan, and then his Bijuu distribution can just never be ignored[/I]. Every man is responsible in his own manner. Tobirama is responsible for not accepting Madara, when the latter was shown to mingle with Senju and was on friendly terms with Hashirama. He chose the village name and helped it built with the rest of the clan - both of them were the founding fathers. Tobirama was clearly shown to not put his hatred behind. Thus when Madara had finally let go of his past, he rekindled those flames of doubt.

As I mentioned, lay blame on everyone. Hashirama is responsible for his own poor decisions and I wouldn't even touch upon Tobirama.

Only posting to you, since you might provide a good argument.

@Bold, He never selected his own brother. The Decision of the Hokage had to be made by everyone at that time. And Tobirama didn't hate the uchiha-clan, he was simply cautious. There is a big difference.

@Italics, They were never Konoha's to began with. No one in Konoha had the ability to handle them. The giving of the tailed beast was a country decision, not simply a Hashirama decision. And it worked.

@Underline, Hashirama in respect to Madara named the village after what Madara purposed. Only Hashirama was considered the founder.

 

[saw2097]

Hashirama wanted to make Madara the First Hokage, it was the entire village's decision for Hashirama to be Hokage instead. Madara is what he is because of his own choices, he attacked the village and was going to kill everyone including his own clan.

Madara's downfall is his own fault.

 

[MinaButt]

Only posting to you, since you might provide a good argument.

@Bold, He never selected his own brother. The Decision of the Hokage had to be made by everyone at that time. And Tobirama didn't hate the uchiha-clan, he was simply cautious. There is a big difference.

@Italics, They were never Konoha's to began with. No one in Konoha had the ability to handle them. The giving of the tailed beast was a country decision, not simply a Hashirama decision. And it worked.

@Underline, Hashirama in respect to Madara named the village after what Madara purposed. Only Hashirama was considered the founder.

What? No dude. Both the Uchiha and Senju founded the village.
And if Konoha couldnt handle the bijuu then why did he collect then in the first place and gave them all away like nukes. And how did giving them away work? And when was it a village decision?

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

- Name the lies said by Tobirama and Hashirama

- How is someone who was trying to make someone the first hokage and then after that failure, trying to make the person work up to become the second Hokage, responsible for that idiots actions?

- Madara simply turned back into the way he was when Izuna died, Hashirama was the one to convert him back.. and then Madara got hurt over not becoming Hokage.


The way you talk about them is, like they were children.. no they were men. Men are responsible for their own actions, no matter the past. You are still liable for your own actions.



The same Hashirama who spared his life, while he could have easily killed the Uchiha and Madara after killing Madara? That Hashirama?



@Bold, sadly at that time he wasn't recognized as a founder. =x

I heard alot of blalalalala. Stop kissing Hashiramas ass fanboy, and grow up.

 

[shelke]

Only posting to you, since you might provide a good argument.

@Bold, He never selected his own brother. The Decision of the Hokage had to be made by everyone at that time. And Tobirama didn't hate the uchiha-clan, he was simply cautious. There is a big difference.

@Italics, They were never Konoha's to began with. No one in Konoha had the ability to handle them. The giving of the tailed beast was a country decision, not simply a Hashirama decision. And it worked.

@Underline, Hashirama in respect to Madara named the village after what Madara purposed. Only Hashirama was considered the founder.

I will reply tomorrow, hopefully.

 

[Bronze]

Only posting to you, since you might provide a good argument.

@Bold, He never selected his own brother. The Decision of the Hokage had to be made by everyone at that time. And Tobirama didn't hate the uchiha-clan, he was simply cautious. There is a big difference.

@Italics, They were never Konoha's to began with. No one in Konoha had the ability to handle them. The giving of the tailed beast was a country decision, not simply a Hashirama decision. And it worked.

@Underline, Hashirama in respect to Madara named the village after what Madara purposed. Only Hashirama was considered the founder.

That's obviously false, as we have seen Madara and Hashirama as kids, both said they will build their village in that forest area which became Konoha which is what they build together. Both Madara and Hashirama founded the village. Not Hashirama.