Gadien Sasuke(no sage chakra) VS BSM Minato

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Smh. You cannot be serious.



That is exactly what it is. They got an equal boost in power thus you take that equal boost away, you are left with what I've already stated.



People say that Naruto is faster because Sasuke being faster is obviously not true.


Wrong. Naruto can't blitz Sasuke period. Not before, not after. He'd react with Susanoo in both occasions even if he didn't have Ameno. Whether or not he can physically react is iffy, but even if he can, it'd either be a very poor reaction or he'd only be able to guard.



Lmfao. That makes perfect sense. Not to mention the two attacks you are comparing are two completely different things, then there's the fact that Susanoo destroying the sword shows it's offensive power. That has nothing to do with it's defensive power. Why do I even have to explain this stuff? It should be obvious from reading the Manga.


Except you're wrong.

You must be registered for see links

If the chakra wasn't melded, then this effect wouldn't be seen. You wouldn't see the chakra as the color of Susanoo all the way through, and even if you are right..... (which is entirely possible)

You have no point for the reasons mentioned above.



Wrong. PS's durability has nothing to do with the power of it's attack. It got through because it was strong enough, not durable enough. Then there's the fact that the Gudo Dama didn't destroy Naruto's Avatar and Sasuke's boosted Susanoo. Obito's drop slam is what produced the force necessary to destroy them. The Gudo Dama only acted as hands for Obito. Nothing more, nothing less.





Are you reading the Manga? Because I see Senjutsu PS Avatar destroying the Sword of Nunoboko with it's offensive power, and I see boosted Susanoo being obliterated because it's defensive power isn't enough. Where do you see PS Avatar tanking that? I'll wait.

So you are saying Naruto and Sasuke melded chakras? That doesn't even make sense. Naruto didn't even know what sasuke did until it was done. plus we already saw madara do it before hand and sasuke was just copying him. That effect was just at the tip of the tails so that's up to kishi, the rest of the body and the sword is different.

By blitz, I meant reaction speed. Susanoo wouldn't count. Sasuke would have had to have susanoo active before naruto makes his move to be able to defend himself. Same thing as with his fight with the raikage. And KCM Naruto was faster. After rikudou upgrades, Sasuke wouldn't need susanoo to react as the speed gap seriously closed up such that sharingan makes up for whatever the difference is.

 

[KidGamer65]

So you are saying Naruto and Sasuke melded chakras? That doesn't even make sense. Naruto didn't even know what sasuke did until it was done. plus we already saw madara do it before hand and sasuke was just copying him. That effect was just at the tip of the tails so that's up to kishi, the rest of the body and the sword is different.

What Naruto knew doesn't matter. The sword is irrelevant as it's a part of Susanoo only. How does the body having a different design change anything that was said? How does him copying Madara matter when he did copy Madara? The only difference is both their Avatars are pure chakra.

By blitz, I meant reaction speed. Susanoo wouldn't count. Sasuke would have had to have susanoo active before naruto makes his move to be able to defend himself. Same thing as with his fight with the raikage. And KCM Naruto was faster. After rikudou upgrades, Sasuke wouldn't need susanoo to react as the speed gap seriously closed up such that sharingan makes up for whatever the difference is.

Then Sasuke doesn't react well. Either way, this doesn't change any of my main points, and I'm not gonna carry on with an irrelevant argument.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

What Naruto knew doesn't matter. The sword is irrelevant as it's a part of Susanoo only. How does the body having a different design change anything that was said? How does him copying Madara matter when he did copy Madara? The only difference is both their Avatars are pure chakra.



Then Sasuke doesn't react well. Either way, this doesn't change any of my main points, and I'm not gonna carry on with an irrelevant argument.

You must be registered for see images

Chakra over Chakra. Not melded chakra. You are basically proving my point, the sword is from Susanoo. So PS > boosted Susanoo. And he copied Madara. Hashirama told him the tale and he copied it.

It's relevant cuz you said Rikudou PS = Rikudou BM. so PS = BM. I just showed you that Rikudou chakra did not affect their attributes in the same way so you can't just go knocking it off both sides and thinking they are equal.

 

[KidGamer65]

You must be registered for see images

Chakra over Chakra. Not melded chakra. You are basically proving my point, the sword is from Susanoo. So PS > boosted Susanoo. And he copied Madara. Hashirama told him the tale and he copied it.

Please tell me how the bold is proven by anything you've stated here? You've even failed to address a large portion of my post, which counters your argument regardless of whether or not you are right on this point.

Not to mention the two attacks you are comparing are two completely different things, then there's the fact that Susanoo destroying the sword shows it's offensive power. That has nothing to do with it's defensive power.


Wrong. PS's durability has nothing to do with the power of it's attack. It got through because it was strong enough, not durable enough. Then there's the fact that the Gudo Dama didn't destroy Naruto's Avatar and Sasuke's boosted Susanoo. Obito's drop slam is what produced the force necessary to destroy them. The Gudo Dama only acted as hands for Obito. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's relevant cuz you said Rikudou PS = Rikudou BM

Yet what you said has nothing to do with this claim. Your Naruto and Sasuke speed comparison is flawed since you are claiming EMS Sasuke can't react, but Rinnegan Sasuke can, which is baseless. Your not melded chakra point doesn't matter either since Senjutsu PS>regular PS. Then there's the fact that once again, for the fourth time, PS Kurama didn't tank an attack that Sasuke's boosted Susanoo couldn't.


.

so PS = BM. I just showed you that Rikudou chakra did not affect their attributes in the same way so you can't just go knocking it off both sides and thinking they are equal.

No, you didn't. You literally showed me nothing that'd prove your point. You stated that EMS Sasuke can't react to BM Naruto, but Rinnegan Sasuke can react to RSM Naruto, even though you have no proof for any of this. If EMS Sasuke can't react to BM Naruto w/o activating Susanoo, then Rinnegan Sasuke can't do the same. But considering EMS Sasuke can track Juubito, it's possible that EMS Sasuke would be able to react to Juubito, but once again, it'd be a poor reaction. Thus RSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke would go the same way.

But I'm of the opinion that EMS Sasuke can't physically react to BM Naruto's Shunshin.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Please tell me how the bold is proven by anything you've stated here? You've even failed to address a large portion of my post, which counters your argument regardless of whether or not you are right on this point.

Not to mention the two attacks you are comparing are two completely different things, then there's the fact that Susanoo destroying the sword shows it's offensive power. That has nothing to do with it's defensive power.


Wrong. PS's durability has nothing to do with the power of it's attack. It got through because it was strong enough, not durable enough. Then there's the fact that the Gudo Dama didn't destroy Naruto's Avatar and Sasuke's boosted Susanoo. Obito's drop slam is what produced the force necessary to destroy them. The Gudo Dama only acted as hands for Obito. Nothing more, nothing less.




Yet what you said has nothing to do with this claim. Your Naruto and Sasuke speed comparison is flawed since you are claiming EMS Sasuke can't react, but Rinnegan Sasuke can, which is baseless. Your not melded chakra point doesn't matter either since Senjutsu PS>regular PS. Then there's the fact that once again, for the fourth time, PS Kurama didn't tank an attack that Sasuke's boosted Susanoo couldn't.


.

No, you didn't. You literally showed me nothing that'd prove your point. You stated that EMS Sasuke can't react to BM Naruto, but Rinnegan Sasuke can react to RSM Naruto, even though you have no proof for any of this. If EMS Sasuke can't react to BM Naruto w/o activating Susanoo, then Rinnegan Sasuke can't do the same. But considering EMS Sasuke can track Juubito, it's possible that EMS Sasuke would be able to react to Juubito, but once again, it'd be a poor reaction. Thus RSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke would go the same way.

But I'm of the opinion that EMS Sasuke can't physically react to BM Naruto's Shunshin.

Yes. Senjutsu PS > regular PS. Of course. But that isn't senjutsu PS. While juugo is in the PS. He doesn't actually contribute. No CM markings on it. So that is regular PS. Just in a different shape. But I guess you are right. I can't comparcompare offense and defense.

Sasuke already blitzed JJ Madara. Even though you will probably say say no. Either ways, blitz or no. Sasuke would be at the very least about the same speed as JJ Madara.

DB already confirms that RSM Naruto is at JJ Madara speed. Which means rinnegan Sasuke is around the same speed as RSM Naruto. So my claim isn't baseless.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes. Senjutsu PS > regular PS. Of course. But that isn't senjutsu PS. While juugo is in the PS. He doesn't actually contribute. No CM markings on it. So that is regular PS. Just in a different shape. But I guess you are right. I can't comparcompare offense and defense.

No man. Naruto's Avatar is Senjutsu. So Sasuke's PS will be Senjutsu too. That's why the blade was able to destroy the Gudo Dama, because it was Senjutsu. More proof that Susanoo and Sasuke's PS fused together regardless of the scans you are posting above. Them being laid on top of each other initially doesn't change the fact that they fused later on. If it was just a standard armoring, then why would Sasuke's PS have Senjutsu in it?

Sasuke already blitzed JJ Madara. Even though you will probably say say no. Either ways, blitz or no. Sasuke would be at the very least about the same speed as JJ Madara.

Except he didn't. Madara turned around, stared at him and watched him cut him in half, which gave him he chance he needed to enter the Kamui dimension. Sasuke can't blitz Madara. DB stating that Naruto and Madara are on the same tier reaction speed wise is proof of that, since Sasuke couldn't even completely blitz Naruto w/ Ameno let alone Shunshin.

DB already confirms that RSM Naruto is at JJ Madara speed. Which means rinnegan Sasuke is around the same speed as RSM Naruto. So my claim isn't baseless.

DB confirms that RSM Naruto has => reaction speed to JJ Madara. Says nothing about movement speed.

 

[Kagustuchi]

I actually didn't think of the bold. Good point. A lot of the stuff I've already mentioned, multiple times. It's just this dude denying Manga fact, what he does best.

Yea, and another point for this other guy. PS and the Avatar would have had to have been fused. Otherwise he wouldn't have even scratched Obito's Nunoboku because of Onmyoton.

So that sword was comprised of both Naruto/Kurama's Senjutsu Chakra as well as Sasuke's normal Chakra he would use for a sword. With the combined strength of their avatars behind it.

 

[Unorthodox]

Gotta give props to KG though, I wouldn't even take the time to read half that stupid shit.

Why the phuck are you talking shit? like your an invisible ass user to me dont talk shit about me and dont get mad when i do not address yo ass in my threads i made it clear if you did'nt make the cut stfu and try harder your a narutobase Lame you fuccing square. You agreeing with kidgamer means nothing look at you your a fan and Minato is basically naruto with ftg so of course your going to agree because you believe Naruto would win do not bother replying to me either

Yup. Lol. But the dude has an obsession. It's actually pretty annoying.

Nobody is obsessed but im done arguing this there is nothing we can tell each other to agree with this topic is literally who can type the biggest wall plus im to lazy after all that to reply agreed to disagree shake on it?

 

[KidGamer65]

Why the phuck are you talking shit? like your an invisible ass user to me dont talk shit about me and dont get mad when i do not address yo ass in my threads i made it clear if you did'nt make the cut stfu and try harder you a narutobase Lame square azz boy.



Nobody is obsessed but im done arguing this there is nothing we can tell each other to agree with this topic is literally who can type the biggest wall plus im to lazy after all that to reply agreed to disagree shake on it?

That's 100% fine by me. Shit was getting too long anyway.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Why the phuck are you talking shit? like your an invisible ass user to me dont talk shit about me and dont get mad when i do not address yo ass in my threads i made it clear if you did'nt make the cut stfu and try harder your a narutobase Lame you fuccing square. You agreeing with kidgamer means nothing look at you your a fan and Minato is basically naruto with ftg so of course your going to agree because you believe Naruto would win do not bother replying to me either



Nobody is obsessed but im done arguing this there is nothing we can tell each other to agree with this topic is literally who can type the biggest wall plus im to lazy after all that to reply agreed to disagree shake on it?

Niga you can ash this blunt on your opinion.

Last I recall you've been the one that tries to quote my posts in diffrent threads and I don't even ever bother with it. The one time I did you and the rest of your Sasuke **** bois took a beatin

 

[solorflare99]

Just going to comment a lil on EMS PS feats

Sasuke has never shown PS without a Chakra boost.

The first time we see Sasuke use legged susanoo it is with the help of Naruto's chakra, and even then he didn't use PS.

It is cannon that anyone in Naruto's BM can get chakra just by being inside kurama's chakra.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

2. Sasuke powered by Naruto was able to take down a featless sword. No big deal.

 

[Unorthodox]

That's 100% fine by me. Shit was getting too long anyway.

i started my reply at 1 in the morning did not finish to 6 i dont even take that much time on my official debates in i make sure i add commas and periods and good gif in between im lowkey scared of walls of text.

Niga you can ash this blunt on your opinion.

Who replies to you? who are you? a Lame i know. stick to your shitty tier list threads

 

[Kagustuchi]

Who replies to you? who are you? a Lame i know. stick to your shitty tier list threads

Ask your mom to come type for you so we can get a sentance in proper english.

Nice edit

 

[KidGamer65]

i started my reply at 1 in the morning did not finish to 6 i dont even take that much time on my official debates in i make sure i add commas and periods and good gif in between im lowkey scared of walls of text.

You must be registered for see images

5 hours? For that post? None of my replies ever exceeded an hour and a half.

 

[Beans2]

wow. You and your best friend are probably the dumbest nigas in this whole forum. That post said "kmc naruto". The only one who keeps incorrectly typing "kmc naruto" is your dumbass. I forgot to put quotation marks around your post, that's why it appeared to be in my post. Smh.

i JUST LAUGHED MY ASS OF KMC NARUTO

 

[Beans2]

Nobody is obsessed but im done arguing this there is nothing we can tell each other to agree with this topic is literally who can type the biggest wall plus im to lazy after all that to reply agreed to disagree shake on it?

Unorthodox just admit you lost this one Take the L and move on atleast you didn't say Manda solos L0l

 

[Apêx1]

5 hours for a post?

You must be registered for see images

 

[Apêx1]

Holy shit I thought I had replied to this and you just ignored it smh..

There are no implications. You simply don't have evidence for your claims.Not to mention you keep on twisting what Kurama said to try and have your argument connect with your speculation even that's not how it works.

-Stop mentioning sinister and powerful in the same sentence. For the last time they are not the same thing. I don't know how many people have to come here and explain this to you. Sasuke's chakra being sinister means that it's sinister. That simple. Not to mention he never said that his chakra is just as sinister as Madar'as, he said that Sasuke's chakra is more sinister than his own, just like Madara. Meaning that they both have more sinister chakra than Kurama, not that their chakra is comparable. Especially since you claim that their chakra is comparable when Sasuke is in Hebi form and Madara is in EMS form. (which already sounds like BS) Then we have MS Sasuke w/ Armored Susanoo, who's chakra power>>>Hebi Sasuke's. Then we have EMS Sasuke, who's chakra power>>>MS Sasuke's at his strongest. So how are EMS Sasuke and EMS Madara still comparable after all those massive jumps? What's worse is that EMS Sasuke's PS is far weaker than EMS Madara's, showing the gap in power between them despite your claim that Hebi Sasuke's chakra is comparable to Madara's.

I already gave you the scan which correlated sinister with chakra power. Karin outright stated the more hatred=the more chakra power. Sinister=evil/criminal.

-Suppressing Kurama is irrelevant when talking about how powerful his chakra is in comparison to Madara's. It's clear as all hell that you are reaching here.

-Choku Tomoe is irrelevant. Those are abilities. Them sharing an ability only they can achieve doesn't mean that they are destined to reach the same maximum potential strength.

-And Indra's reincarnation is irrelevant. Stop using this poor logic. Naruto and Hashirama are both Ashura's reincarnations, but Naruto can't even hope to reach Hashirama's level without a Bijuu, nor can he even hope to reach Hashirama's chakra amount or the strength of his chakra w/o a Bijuu. Or are you going to argue that Prime Naruto should have chakra on par with Hashirama's just like Sasuke and Madara, based on the fact that they are both reincarnates. Smh.

They are supposed to draw the parallelism for you. Furthermore, Orochimaru claims Sasuke WILL eventually surpass Madara [

You must be registered for see links

] despite knowing of his Rinnegan after all of Kabuto's intel transferred to him. He knows more about Madara then anybody; ever. So his claim of Sasuke someday becoming>Madara is EASILY substantial enough. It is not even implicative anymore, it's a fact. Furthermore, Orochimaru didn't even know Sasuke would ever receive the Rinnegan. So Sasuke should be quite a bit ahead of Madara 12-15 years from that point. Any disagreement will actually need some proof as to why Sasuke wouldn't be >Madara. And Tobirama creates a parallel between Naruto and Hashirama's personality, not their fighting power. So your previous claim of Indra's reincarnation being irrelevant also goes out the window.

I'm waiting for you to give me evidence. That simple. This whole post only shows me that you don't have real evidence.

What's funnier is that despite you have no evidence for your claims, I still addressed your arguments. EMS Madara loses, so does Sasuke even if you give him his Susanoo feats.



Sage Sensing is better for precognitive purposes.

I gave you substantial evidence. He thought an EMS Sasuke would surpass a Rinnegan Madara. Yet you are here trying to tell me EMS Sasuke is inferior to EMS Madara. And I am here telling you Rinnegan Sasuke>>Rinnegan Madara.

 

[KidGamer65]

Holy shit I thought I had replied to this and you just ignored it smh..


I already gave you the scan which correlated sinister with chakra power. Karin outright stated the more hatred=the more chakra power. Sinister=evil/criminal.

No, I suggest you read that scan again. Karin stated that Sasuke's chakra is more potent than it was in CM2, then she says "more than that", "It's just cold". She never stated that it being cold and it being powerful are the same. She stated that his chakra is more potent and colder. Obito said that his hatred made his chakra more powerful.

-Does that mean that Sasuke having more sinister chakra than Kurama means that he has more powerful chakra than Kurama? Obviously not. Hatred can make Sasuke's power grow, but having more of it isn't going to make his chakra more powerful than those who lack it.

Then there's the fact that you are still implying that Hebi Sasuke~EMS Madara in chakra potency, which makes absolutely no sense for reasons already stated.

They are supposed to draw the parallelism for you. Furthermore, Orochimaru claims Sasuke WILL eventually surpass Madara [

You must be registered for see links

] despite knowing of his Rinnegan after all of Kabuto's intel transferred to him. He knows more about Madara then anybody; ever. So his claim of Sasuke someday becoming>Madara is EASILY substantial enough. It is not even implicative anymore, it's a fact. Furthermore, Orochimaru didn't even know Sasuke would ever receive the Rinnegan. So Sasuke should be quite a bit ahead of Madara 12-15 years from that point. Any disagreement will actually need some proof as to why Sasuke wouldn't be >Madara. And Tobirama creates a parallel between Naruto and Hashirama's personality, not their fighting power. So your previous claim of Indra's reincarnation being irrelevant also goes out the window.

What's funny is that you are telling me I need evidence, even though you are using Orochimaru's statement as evidence. ONE DAY he'll be able to surpass Madara. That isn't proof that Gaiden Sasuke is stronger than EMS Madara by "quite a bit". You'd have to prove to me that the day you refer to is the "one day" Orochimaru spoke of. Tobirama's statement is completely irrelevant. You tried to use them both being reincarnations as evidence that Sasuke and Madara have the same potential peak in power, and Naruto and Hashirama disprove that. It's as simple as that. Tobirama not comparing their power doesn't change any of this.

I gave you substantial evidence. He thought an EMS Sasuke would surpass a Rinnegan Madara. Yet you are here trying to tell me EMS Sasuke is inferior to EMS Madara. And I am here telling you Rinnegan Sasuke>>Rinnegan Madara.

Smh. Where in the world are you getting this nonsense from? Not only does Orochimaru not know the full power of Rinnegan Madara, it should be pretty clear that he was referring to EMS Madara. Not a Rinnegan Madara who truly didn't even exist at that point due to being an Edo Tensei and having a fake Rinnegan. Lmao.

 

[ashrafuchiha]

@kidgamer you are saying sasuke doesnt have the thrust speed to hit minato after he uses ameno but what if he combines that with universal pull? Im pretty sure he would get minato if he combined the two techs.
Care to disagree?