A theory would be that since Obito was crushed under a rock, Madara rescued him and replaced the damaged parts with zetsu parts. Kind of like Darth Vader, that could result in him being taller and altered his voice. That would explain where he got Senju DNA and why he was dripping with Zetsu goop when his arm was chopped off.
Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions
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Thundercles
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Tobi cannot be an Uchiha. His MS is Obito's, yes. But if he was an Uchiha member other than Obito, then it was be a combination of the two (as with Sasuke/Madara). He possesses both Uchiha and Senju DNA. The senju DNA would enable him to utilize his MS a lot more without the massive chakra drain. So officially, I have no f'ing clue who he is anymore.
There is a theoretical reason, the Senju DNA that he possesses is actually the other half of Black Zetsu and it composes half of his face. Wearing a mask would make sense regardless whether it is Izuna or not.
I'd also disagree about it not game-changing the series for two reasons. One, it would flesh out Madara's backstory tremendously, not just the fight with Hashirama but his and Izuna's perspective on the days before the founding of Konoha as well.
Secondly, Tobi most likely isn't the final villain and thus a huge impact to the series isn't really a necessity at this point; his identity is enough. Meaning whoever he is, he's not going to be as important as Sasuke (I hate to say it) or even Madara (who seems to be immortal at this point) when things get rolling.
:sy:
He is an Uchiha. No one could use both those eyes for so long and with such amazing feats. In order for his MS to become EMS which is what I think you're talking about, Tobi would have to be Obito's brother, he could still be an Uchiha.
MinatoIsBestHokage
Member
Does anyone honestly still believe Tobi isn't an Uchiha/Part Uchiha? I would think the past few chapters made that very evident AKA even Kishi laid that one out for us. I of course have not read this entire thread but figured I would post something that I tried to on another thread but couldn't, so I didn't want it to go to waste xd, so I apologize if anyone made a similar/identical post.
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I was going to make an entire thread about my theory but I am tired and don't really want too xd
I do however never believed I would change my mind but the more and more I go back and read the more important chapters the more and more I begin to think it it Izuna for a ton of reasons but I will write down only a few major ones:
1 - If not for Izuna, Madara does not get EMS, and this whole plan goes to poop. The fact that Tobi actually seemed to get genuinely scared when Kabuto shows Tobi he has Madara's body and when Tobi realizes Kabuto failed and loses his Paths/Jinchuuriki is also a quandary if I have ever seen one. I am also going to add a minor point to this one that is not so much on the topic, but the fact that all of these people are connected and know each other from Madara knowing Nagato and Orochimaru knowing Tobi and so on, some plan was obviously put into motion, which leads me to my next point...
2 - We know Madara fought Hashirama for his DNA for the most part, until Kishi writes otherwise. Madara gets Hashi's DNA, unlocks the Rinnegan and dies using the 7th Pain or "The one beyond Life and Death" due to the damage sustained from his fight and the Chakra needed to use the ability to bring his brother back. This can also be substituted with Madara using IWR/Edo-Tensei on Izuna since as we saw I believe 3-4 chapters ago, Tobirama might get the credit but he definitely did not "invent" the technique. Either way Madara dies and leaves both his eye's and the rest of the plan to Izuna who sets the plan into motion. Who else could really pull off and make everyone believe that they are Uchiha Madara and start the biggest freaking war in Narutoverse-History? Izuna begins plan...
3 - Zetsu is created sometime soon after Madara's death. Zetsu is still the only person to never call Tobi by any form of the name Madara and always refers to him as Tobi. The plan commences and without making this a giant point, Orochimaru tells Tobi about Nagato and clearly Tobi has found what he is looking for:
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(Tobi is the only person who can be the SECOND So6P
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(Nagato was clearly supposed to be the THIRD So6P)*On a minor note concerning these 2 pages, I find that whole thing very weird, yet instrumental to finding the truth. Does what make a So6P the Rinnegan or is it a conglomerate of things that when they come together make the perfect Second, Third, Fourth, etc... Or is it a clan thing? Like One is Senju, One is Uchiha, One is Uzumaki, and so on with the next 3 closest clan relatives to the original So6P. Just something to ponder, back to #3...
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The eyes were Tobi's to begin with. Which brings me back round to my first sentence in point #1. Izuna's MS eyes began the entire plan or instead of making such a bold statement like that, I do think we can all believe it is/was the catalyst.
A few minor points:
- Of course Tobi has said Izuna gave his eye's to Madara willingly, but what else would Tobi/Izuna say if he is pretending to be Madara? Remember the name MADARA itself was enough to cause this war. And isn't it funny that the first one to state otherwise that Izuna did not give his eye's willingly is Itachi. Itachi definitely got that information through either genjutsu or some tactical jutsu/strategy when he first met Tobi before the Uchiha Clan Massacre. Itachi just doesn't say things like this...ESPECIALLY LIKE THIS...for the sake of saying them.
- Izuna was on Madara's level as we all know. They were noted to be equal. So if you connect the point right above with this one it had to be someone or a group of people who helped Madara get his brother's eyes and it was probably other Uchiha clansmen.
- Madara gets extremely pissed when he realizes Nagato isn't the one that used his power to resurrect him rather that he has been resurrected by IWR/Edo-Tensei.
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On page 3 he obviously leads to a mysterious man, "HIS DOING" along with "things don't seem to be going to plan very well."
- Another big question and I am sure a big argument against it being Izuna is well...the same one people use for just about every theory on who is Tobi which is how does -ENTER WHO YOU THINK TOBI IS HERE- know so much about this and that and the history of everything and how was he there when this, etc...and so on. As I have always stated and truly believe I think Zetsu is going to play a major role in all of this (yes, even more so than now) and people have to remember Zetsu could have cloned Tobi and been at this even and that event and/or recorded this and that or whatever it is one wants to argue and gave the information to Tobi.
I mean I could go on and on and I never would have believed it was Izuna but like I said after reading a lot of the important past chapters, especially the issues where Konan faces Madara as well as Danzo faces Sasuke, it just seems to make sense or rather I should say make the most sense in a series that has so many loopholes, unanswered questions and sporadic/spontaneous changes. This is also if I had to pick one person...because in the end I did and kind of do still believe it is some screwed up Zetsu version of the Elder Son of the So6P mixed with everyone and their mother's DNA.
i have no idea who it is but im leaning towards obito(yeah i said it) and izuna. i know one thing though he is not kagami.
The guy was in one chapter and in around 2-3 pages. He never spoke once and he never was mentioned once. He is the very definition of fodder, "a character who has no contribution to the plot, and is just there to either show the main characters superiority, or because it makes sense for them to be there." sound familiar? The only reasons he is even a theory is because he is an uchiha, has similar hair, and the age somewhat fits. Those are the ONLY REASONS. That uchiha who confronted itachi had more screen time and if he had the same hair would be MORE plausible.
Though people write their adorable fan-fictions and pull shit outta there ass and say he has more likely-hood than obito. Who might i mention has the same sharingan, hair, is an uchiha, knows kakashi and guy, can deativate his sharingan, and is much more relevant to the plot. Yes the timeline doesnt fit but that could be someone else. The evidence towards him still has a massive advantage over the kagami theory "evidence".
Yet people seem to think its a good idea to make a fodder character the main villian and it will somehow have depth. I dont get how people can justify there fan-fiction theorys and think it has a better chance of happening then someone who is relevant to the plot.
It puzzles me sometimes at peoples logic.
The guy was in one chapter and in around 2-3 pages. He never spoke once and he never was mentioned once. He is the very definition of fodder, "a character who has no contribution to the plot, and is just there to either show the main characters superiority, or because it makes sense for them to be there." sound familiar? The only reasons he is even a theory is because he is an uchiha, has similar hair, and the age somewhat fits. Those are the ONLY REASONS. That uchiha who confronted itachi had more screen time and if he had the same hair would be MORE plausible.
Though people write their adorable fan-fictions and pull shit outta there ass and say he has more likely-hood than obito. Who might i mention has the same sharingan, hair, is an uchiha, knows kakashi and guy, can deativate his sharingan, and is much more relevant to the plot. Yes the timeline doesnt fit but that could be someone else. The evidence towards him still has a massive advantage over the kagami theory "evidence".
Yet people seem to think its a good idea to make a fodder character the main villian and it will somehow have depth. I dont get how people can justify there fan-fiction theorys and think it has a better chance of happening then someone who is relevant to the plot.
It puzzles me sometimes at peoples logic.
Lordlloyd7
Active member
I don't have time at the moment to fully analyze everything you've written, but here's a few things that come to mind:
Re. your third point, Nagato already had the rinnegan before Orochimaru met him. He had it prior to meeting Yahiko even.
As for whether Tobi was lying about Izuna willingly giving up his eyes... It's very likely, imo, that Itachi's story was just a lie. For one, Itachi was still playing the part of the villain, and he wanted to scare Sasuke by pretending he was following in Madara's footsteps trying to steal his brother's eyes. Also, Itachi wanted to vilify Madara (Tobi) to discourage Sasuke from seeking him out.
MinatoIsBestHokage
Member
I think you are missing my point about Nagato which is really my fault cause I should have explained it further. To me Nagato is a smack-dab in the center of this. And it goes back to one of my main themes of that post which was HOW IN THE CLUCK DO ALL THESE PEOPLE KNOW EACH OTHER?!?!?
Yes Nagato had the rinnegan before meeting those two and it was first shown he had it when they/Konoha Shinobi killed his Parents and he reacted. But at the same time, much like the first few times we saw Nagato have the Rinnegan, it was only temporary...and look at those who have/had the Rinnegan now. It is not the Sharingan/MS/EMS in which you turn it off or deactivate it as you please, if you have it, you have it for good (at least I haven't seen another example to prove otherwise OTHER than my Nagato one aforementioned above). Maybe Jirayai wrote Tsunade and/or Orochimaru a note about how they felt this kid could be the prophecy/prophet he was waiting for or maybe J-Man told it to them after he had gotten the news that they (the 3 orphans) had died (falsely). Either way I guarantee from some of those links I provided and from what has been said in the Manga, Nagato had to have shared some DNA and/or been a distant relative of the So6P, or something along those lines - kind of like what we all believed before everyone started getting EMS and Rinnegan...that if you got the Rinnegan you were the So6P reincarnate. Either way it all comes back to me just making a very short theory on how they all somehow know each other, especially Madara and Nagato since they hail from 2 totally different timelines OR should. Madara clearly thinks in that link I posted that something went wrong with the plan and it can only be HIS doing and/or a change in plans. How many people do you think Madara trusted, liked, liked him, trusted him, etc... For all we know Izuna or Tobi for the sake of my theory told everyone that he/Izuna had died doing what was right, etc... to of course keep up the "I am Madara" thing he had going
.As for your Itachi could have been lying comment, it kind of contradicts itself.
Itachi was playing the part of the villain, so he used Madara as an example and lied to Sasuke in order for him to believe his whole giant charade AKA Itachi is bad? And on top of that Itachi wanted to vilify Madara or as you say Tobi from Sasuke seeking him out? I mean that is a little bit twisted don't you think? Which is it: Did Itachi want to make Madara/Your Tobi out to be a monster and used the example of how he even took his own brother's eyes or did Itachi do it because he had to play the part of the villain and decided to throw that AT THE TIME a useless piece of information (in regards to Itachi trying to make sure his charade/cover was not blown and Sasuke still believed he was a Villain) at Sasuke to make himself/Itachi seem as cruel and monstrous as Madara? Either way Itachi is not the type of person to do any of those things because he wants to show Sasuke why he spared him and why he had to play the part of the Villain all along. Plus we are talking about SASUKE here, the dude does not have one logical brain-cell. My main point is Itachi wouldn't just say something like that nor would he have to in order to keep up with the Villain act. This is a guy who Tobi has even said if he hadn't kept a couple of secrets from Itachi and/or had allowed Itachi enough time to find out all Tobi's secrets/truth about him, he would most likely be dead.
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Keep in mind I don't disagree with Itachi lying about it, I do however just have to continue with my theory
. When it comes to Itachi or Tobi no one can pick out one thing and say it were true or false, so yes it can be argued either way, that much I will give to you. 
lorienlupin
Member
I never believed it... never thought it was possible... but I'm starting to think it might be Obito under that mask; one thing I can say is that even if people said it... I didn't really saw it coming.
Thundercles
Active member
Um.. no. He has the 1st Hokage's DNA in him.. He could use amazing feats with that alone. Also, an Uchiha who wants to gain EMS doesn't have to take the eyes from their sibilings.. It is just easier if they do.
cLoneWarriorS
Member
Something like this one.
One thing can be certain: Kakashi and Tobi use the same eye technique belonging to Obito.
If Tobi could be Obito, then one possible thing is that Madara had somehow able to made contact with him (possibly during the nth? war), train him, and made plans with him. Yet, the possibility of Tobi becoming Obito could give a lot of twists in the plot (it can be both good and bad for the readers).
If Tobi could not be Obito. I would say that Tobi can be an earlier EXPERIMENT person/thing created by either the First or Madara or even both of them like I see what ZETSU is.
If Tobi could not be an EXPERIMENT, I would prefer it to be no one but from the UZUMAKI clan.
Bloodytaste
Member
Its Obito~ I predicted it for so long. As i said Madara was alive even at tobis attack on Konoha. Tobi/Obitos as Madaras Underling or Pupil, would be able to lead this attack, maybe madara was not strong enough to fight, or he wanted to hide himself, and let tobi attack the hidden leaf.
I also belive Nagatos Rinnegan is his own, maybe madara got to know him, and he tried to figure out how this boy got the rinnegan, so maybe he could get his own. MAybe Nagato was an experiment~ there is no proof that the rinnegan has to be formed of EMS.
So i think Madara did not gave his eyes to nagato, which means that he sure could have lived far longer then the 2nd shinobi war.
Tobi kinda stated it
here.
Tobi: I dont know about that
and i think he did not refer to himself at this part, cuz he did not declare his identity of beeing madara.
Well its only a guess, but this would make the tobi obito theory plausible ~
1 Madara lives far longer
2. Madara found Obito with Zetsus help, trained him and he got to know about rins death, that kakashi could not prevent, even he swore to protect here with his live(he lived on, with that blame on him.) Obito who nearly lost everything, Friends, Body(Tobi said at the conference he wanted a perfect body), Love, dreams, his future, maybe this moon eye plan of madara was just everything left, to sway away this anger and dispair from this world, he dont wants to belong anymore.
3. Madara died later once and tobi/obito just went on with his motvation, without riving madara with nagatos help~ So Tobi betrayed madara, thats why he fears him. If there is an Edo tensei madara with full powers, me as tobi would also fear that bitch. I mean why should tobi care about his idenity if he sas the whole time he dont wants to be anybody ~ as if he could not start a war without calling himself madara.
4. Well Obito = best Character to fit into the story. Obito resemblec much naruto, he was mentionend in many forms, movies, got a whole flashback of 4 to 5 chapter whre we got to know him really well. I mean the most uchiha we got to know personally, were first Sasuke, Second Itachi, Third Obito and fourth madara~ Any other Uchiha was not really mentioned to be important in the whole plot or for any character. Obito would also be the onl uchiha whoe would need an artifical Zetsu body, why should Izuna whoe got a real body need zetsu parts? Thats stupid guess guys. If it is Izuna kishi would fail 10000 more. Cause if it is obito everthing would fit perfectly, only the Timeline has to be explained and thats not that difficult. It would be more a mess, to explain what izuna has to do with this whole shit, or kagami or any other uchiha we dont know a shit about =O
nuff said~
I also belive Nagatos Rinnegan is his own, maybe madara got to know him, and he tried to figure out how this boy got the rinnegan, so maybe he could get his own. MAybe Nagato was an experiment~ there is no proof that the rinnegan has to be formed of EMS.
So i think Madara did not gave his eyes to nagato, which means that he sure could have lived far longer then the 2nd shinobi war.
Tobi kinda stated it
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here.
Tobi: I dont know about that
and i think he did not refer to himself at this part, cuz he did not declare his identity of beeing madara.
Well its only a guess, but this would make the tobi obito theory plausible ~
1 Madara lives far longer
2. Madara found Obito with Zetsus help, trained him and he got to know about rins death, that kakashi could not prevent, even he swore to protect here with his live(he lived on, with that blame on him.) Obito who nearly lost everything, Friends, Body(Tobi said at the conference he wanted a perfect body), Love, dreams, his future, maybe this moon eye plan of madara was just everything left, to sway away this anger and dispair from this world, he dont wants to belong anymore.
3. Madara died later once and tobi/obito just went on with his motvation, without riving madara with nagatos help~ So Tobi betrayed madara, thats why he fears him. If there is an Edo tensei madara with full powers, me as tobi would also fear that bitch. I mean why should tobi care about his idenity if he sas the whole time he dont wants to be anybody ~ as if he could not start a war without calling himself madara.
4. Well Obito = best Character to fit into the story. Obito resemblec much naruto, he was mentionend in many forms, movies, got a whole flashback of 4 to 5 chapter whre we got to know him really well. I mean the most uchiha we got to know personally, were first Sasuke, Second Itachi, Third Obito and fourth madara~ Any other Uchiha was not really mentioned to be important in the whole plot or for any character. Obito would also be the onl uchiha whoe would need an artifical Zetsu body, why should Izuna whoe got a real body need zetsu parts? Thats stupid guess guys. If it is Izuna kishi would fail 10000 more. Cause if it is obito everthing would fit perfectly, only the Timeline has to be explained and thats not that difficult. It would be more a mess, to explain what izuna has to do with this whole shit, or kagami or any other uchiha we dont know a shit about =O
nuff said~
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