Bloodytaste
Member
If u do let me be your first Costumor.
McChicken pls & a big Coke, so be prepared to serve!
Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions
- Thread starter Avani
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McChicken pls & a big Coke, so be prepared to serve!
Trollasaur
Active member
I don't think Obito would be obvious at all. IMO if it were Obito it would have the most impact.
HokageTobiramaXx
Member
I believe I KNOW, and I mean I KNOW who tobi is...gonna make an illegal thread later about it and I'll link it here (re-reading the entire manga and I am scanning anything related to tobi/uchiha, it's a real mind blower)
Trollasaur
Active member
Then people stop beliving Obito is Tobi and then Kishi makes it Obito, and then people get uber mad XD
The idea of it being Shisui is intriguing to me. Kabuto made a special mention that Jirayas body was at the bottom of the ocean, and specifically Danzo and Shusui couldn't be found.
I still don't know why Tobi wanted Shisuis eye. Did he want the eye BACK because it was his to begin with? If not, What reason would Tobi need an eye that has a tech that takes a decade to reload? I know Hashis cells allegedly lower the time needed to recover, but still. Unless he was going to use it with Moons Eye?
I still don't know why Tobi wanted Shisuis eye. Did he want the eye BACK because it was his to begin with? If not, What reason would Tobi need an eye that has a tech that takes a decade to reload? I know Hashis cells allegedly lower the time needed to recover, but still. Unless he was going to use it with Moons Eye?
I was waiting for someone to do this, I had a feeling if you added (and subtracted) all the clues you would get 1 individual that sticks out.
Danzo is obvious, mind linking the page? Wondering about Shusui.
Back? You sure you are not mixing up him talking about Nagato? Again, link please?
And I doubt he could get the eye from Danzo due to him killing himself with a powerful sealing jutsu after his fight with Sasuke. Shisuis eye would put everyone in a dream like state if combined with Jubi possibly, so not a completely radical idea but I don't believe any of his particular eyes exist.
Trollasaur
Active member
So few members vote for uchiha shisui ?
I thought it's Izuna or obito or another half of madara.. actually it can be anyone..
But:
1.Uchiha shisui nickname in konoha's uchiha clan was "shisui the teleporter".
2.He is the only one that when he "died" no one found his body and the creators make sure that we noticed that by pointing that out in al least 3 flashbacks.
3. Everyone of the uchiha clan were strong but everyone kept saying that his genjutsu is the strongest.. no one suits tobi better wuth that reputation..
I'm aware that both eyes are gone..
One shisui gave to itachi and one took by Danzo
But that what I think anyway..
I thought it's Izuna or obito or another half of madara.. actually it can be anyone..
But:
1.Uchiha shisui nickname in konoha's uchiha clan was "shisui the teleporter".
2.He is the only one that when he "died" no one found his body and the creators make sure that we noticed that by pointing that out in al least 3 flashbacks.
3. Everyone of the uchiha clan were strong but everyone kept saying that his genjutsu is the strongest.. no one suits tobi better wuth that reputation..
I'm aware that both eyes are gone..
One shisui gave to itachi and one took by Danzo
But that what I think anyway..
sagatexplus
Active member
There are theories all over for this guy
OK so lets start from the beginning.
Both Tobi and Kagami are from the Uchiha clan.
Hair is very similar,eyes,eyebrows look similar.
You can see Tobis face in chapter 510.
Kagami Uchiha was on the same team as Danzo,The Third Hokage,The two elder councilors,and the 2nd hokage during the 1st shinobi war.
The 2nd hokage most likely trained the team he was with during the war.
The 2nd hokage was said to have space time techniques according to the 4th hokage,which explains Tobis space time techniques. Tobirama was the name of the 2nd hokage,which could explain why Tobi is named Tobi,possibly because Tobi had great respect for the 2nd hokage seeing how he took his life to save the whole team.
Kagami being on the team with the 2nd hokage,the future 3rd hokage,the anbu leader,just shows already that he was a very skilled ninja at a young age. Seeing as how Tobi is old,it fits well because all of Kagamis old comrades are around the same age it looks. Tobi has never shown his MS,possibly because Kagami has never awakened his MS. Kagami is apparently deceased but it is not confirmed when and how he died. The reason why he says he is madara could be due to the fact that madara was one of the most feared ninjas in his time,so by using madara name he is putting fear into everyone. Which is why when Tobi saw madara in the 6th coffin he was forced to work with kabuto. If Tobi is madaras other half...why would he be afraid of kabuto summoning his other half? wouldn't he want kabuto to summon him so that they can become one again?
I couldn't tell you why Kagami betrayed the leaf,but possibly because he noticed the discrimination happening towards the Uchiha and decided to follow the path that madara was following. I couldn't tell you why he would help itachi destroy his clan,but that's what the suspense is for everyone saying Tobi has to be a character that's already been talked about in the manga,but why cant a new character pop up? that's the point of a twist,it will be to predictable if its obito,or shisui,it has to be someone we know nothing about,besides there had to be a reason for showing Kagami with all the other elders when they were young,theres a reason for everything,especially the fact that he was an uchia on the team.
I know this isn't the best theory but im pretty tired i wrote this quick,if i remember anything else i will add to it didnt realize its already pretty long
Please tell me what your thoughts are about this theory and feel free to disagree and tell me where i may have made an error or i am incorrect.
Uchiha Kagami: The man who was in the squad of Tobirama, the brother of Hashirama Senju who was Madara's rival. Tobirama - the shinobi that the masked man derived his alias "Tobi" from.
Uchiha Kagami: The man who was in the same squad as both elders, Danzo, and Hiruzen. Four people all involved in the Uchiha massacre, and 3 of which Tobi brainwashed Sasuke to kill. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
Uchiha Kagami: The man who picked up where his father left off, but was smarter than his father. Instead of destroying the Senju head on, he would infiltrate Konoha, and learn about their ways. "Patience is the key to success" ~ Tobi.
Uchiha Kagami: The man, the Uchiha, that Kishimoto quietly introduced, yet everyone overlooked.
Uchiha Kagami: The man behind the mask.
What if... Kagami Uchiha was Tobi!! :S
I'm starting to wonder if the fellow pupil of Hiruzen Sarutobi and Danzo Shimura, Kagami Uchiha (seen in the last thoughts of Danzo, after his battle with Sasuke) could be Tobi (Madara Uchiha)? Since i doubt very strongly that Tobi is actually Madara! I have found a couple of pages from the manga which support my theory:
In the following page, the Tsuchikage makes reference to Madara's ''Mooneye Operation'' to be alot like what Danzo's idea of the Shinobi World is... i believe that Madara and Danzo think alike for their respective plans because they were fellow pupils, and Kagami seemed to be in Danzo's three-man cell rather than Sarutobi's... which explains why they think alike!
Here, we see the three-man cells of both Sarutobi and Danzo. As I said up above, i believe Kagami Uchiha and Akimichi Torifu were in Danzo's squad, under the 2nd Hokage, like Sarutobi's squad.
I found this other page while re-reading the fight between Madara and Minato during Naruto's birth and the Kyubi attack of 16 years ago. After their ''Battle of Speed'', Minato describes Madara's space-time ninjutsu to be better than his own space-time ninjutsu and even the 2nd Hokage's, Nidaime Hokage. And it might just be me forgeting stuff, but wasn't that the first and only time someone spoke of the Nidaime Hokage to have had space-time ninjutsu?? And if he did, then it explains that he could have tought one of his students the space-time ninjutsu techniques! Furthermore, Masashi Kishimoto seems to like making the students become stronger than their master in this series (Orochimaru and Sarutobi, Sasuke and Kakashi, Naruto and Jiraiya, Shikamaru and Asuma...) so it makes sense that the student of the 2nd Hokage could have developped space-time ninjutsus even better than his master.
I have no page to support my following argument, but it makes sense anwyays, you'll see!
Kishimoto told on many sites that the name of the 2nd Hokage (Nidaime) was Tobirama Senju... and alot of people, including me, think that the name Madara Uchiha used, ''Tobi'', could have been in reference to Tobirama Senju, the 2nd Hokage. Now, I think this is very probable because if Kagami Uchiha studied under him, than it is indeed a strong possibility that he would've taken a nickname from his old master. Tobi from Tobirama.
To add to my theory about Tobi / Kagami Uchiha, would'nt it be great if the reason why Tobi seemed so surprise to see Kabuto's last Edo Tensei coffin was because it's Madara Uchiha?! And that Kagami Uchiha could be Izuna Uchiha's (Madara's little brother) son!? Maybe he was Madara's nephew and after his father's death he was raised under Madara's ideologies? This makes sense since Madara and Izuna are the same age as Hashirama and Tobirama, so Kagami could have easily been the child of either of those Uchiha brothers! And it could make for a very interesting plot twist in the Naruto series!
OK so lets start from the beginning.
Both Tobi and Kagami are from the Uchiha clan.
Hair is very similar,eyes,eyebrows look similar.
You can see Tobis face in chapter 510.
Kagami Uchiha was on the same team as Danzo,The Third Hokage,The two elder councilors,and the 2nd hokage during the 1st shinobi war.
The 2nd hokage most likely trained the team he was with during the war.
The 2nd hokage was said to have space time techniques according to the 4th hokage,which explains Tobis space time techniques. Tobirama was the name of the 2nd hokage,which could explain why Tobi is named Tobi,possibly because Tobi had great respect for the 2nd hokage seeing how he took his life to save the whole team.
Kagami being on the team with the 2nd hokage,the future 3rd hokage,the anbu leader,just shows already that he was a very skilled ninja at a young age. Seeing as how Tobi is old,it fits well because all of Kagamis old comrades are around the same age it looks. Tobi has never shown his MS,possibly because Kagami has never awakened his MS. Kagami is apparently deceased but it is not confirmed when and how he died. The reason why he says he is madara could be due to the fact that madara was one of the most feared ninjas in his time,so by using madara name he is putting fear into everyone. Which is why when Tobi saw madara in the 6th coffin he was forced to work with kabuto. If Tobi is madaras other half...why would he be afraid of kabuto summoning his other half? wouldn't he want kabuto to summon him so that they can become one again?
I couldn't tell you why Kagami betrayed the leaf,but possibly because he noticed the discrimination happening towards the Uchiha and decided to follow the path that madara was following. I couldn't tell you why he would help itachi destroy his clan,but that's what the suspense is for everyone saying Tobi has to be a character that's already been talked about in the manga,but why cant a new character pop up? that's the point of a twist,it will be to predictable if its obito,or shisui,it has to be someone we know nothing about,besides there had to be a reason for showing Kagami with all the other elders when they were young,theres a reason for everything,especially the fact that he was an uchia on the team.
I know this isn't the best theory but im pretty tired i wrote this quick,if i remember anything else i will add to it didnt realize its already pretty long
Please tell me what your thoughts are about this theory and feel free to disagree and tell me where i may have made an error or i am incorrect.
Uchiha Kagami: The man who was in the squad of Tobirama, the brother of Hashirama Senju who was Madara's rival. Tobirama - the shinobi that the masked man derived his alias "Tobi" from.
Uchiha Kagami: The man who was in the same squad as both elders, Danzo, and Hiruzen. Four people all involved in the Uchiha massacre, and 3 of which Tobi brainwashed Sasuke to kill. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
Uchiha Kagami: The man who picked up where his father left off, but was smarter than his father. Instead of destroying the Senju head on, he would infiltrate Konoha, and learn about their ways. "Patience is the key to success" ~ Tobi.
Uchiha Kagami: The man, the Uchiha, that Kishimoto quietly introduced, yet everyone overlooked.
Uchiha Kagami: The man behind the mask.
What if... Kagami Uchiha was Tobi!! :S
I'm starting to wonder if the fellow pupil of Hiruzen Sarutobi and Danzo Shimura, Kagami Uchiha (seen in the last thoughts of Danzo, after his battle with Sasuke) could be Tobi (Madara Uchiha)? Since i doubt very strongly that Tobi is actually Madara! I have found a couple of pages from the manga which support my theory:
In the following page, the Tsuchikage makes reference to Madara's ''Mooneye Operation'' to be alot like what Danzo's idea of the Shinobi World is... i believe that Madara and Danzo think alike for their respective plans because they were fellow pupils, and Kagami seemed to be in Danzo's three-man cell rather than Sarutobi's... which explains why they think alike!
You must be registered for see links
Here, we see the three-man cells of both Sarutobi and Danzo. As I said up above, i believe Kagami Uchiha and Akimichi Torifu were in Danzo's squad, under the 2nd Hokage, like Sarutobi's squad.
You must be registered for see links
I found this other page while re-reading the fight between Madara and Minato during Naruto's birth and the Kyubi attack of 16 years ago. After their ''Battle of Speed'', Minato describes Madara's space-time ninjutsu to be better than his own space-time ninjutsu and even the 2nd Hokage's, Nidaime Hokage. And it might just be me forgeting stuff, but wasn't that the first and only time someone spoke of the Nidaime Hokage to have had space-time ninjutsu?? And if he did, then it explains that he could have tought one of his students the space-time ninjutsu techniques! Furthermore, Masashi Kishimoto seems to like making the students become stronger than their master in this series (Orochimaru and Sarutobi, Sasuke and Kakashi, Naruto and Jiraiya, Shikamaru and Asuma...) so it makes sense that the student of the 2nd Hokage could have developped space-time ninjutsus even better than his master.
You must be registered for see links
I have no page to support my following argument, but it makes sense anwyays, you'll see!
Kishimoto told on many sites that the name of the 2nd Hokage (Nidaime) was Tobirama Senju... and alot of people, including me, think that the name Madara Uchiha used, ''Tobi'', could have been in reference to Tobirama Senju, the 2nd Hokage. Now, I think this is very probable because if Kagami Uchiha studied under him, than it is indeed a strong possibility that he would've taken a nickname from his old master. Tobi from Tobirama.
To add to my theory about Tobi / Kagami Uchiha, would'nt it be great if the reason why Tobi seemed so surprise to see Kabuto's last Edo Tensei coffin was because it's Madara Uchiha?! And that Kagami Uchiha could be Izuna Uchiha's (Madara's little brother) son!? Maybe he was Madara's nephew and after his father's death he was raised under Madara's ideologies? This makes sense since Madara and Izuna are the same age as Hashirama and Tobirama, so Kagami could have easily been the child of either of those Uchiha brothers! And it could make for a very interesting plot twist in the Naruto series!
Bijuu Kage
Active member
Reasons for him being Izuna the vast array of knowledge of history he possesses, he is propably the most powerful ninja in the narutoverse so far he has only showed 2 jutsus and pretty much has taken on some dangerous ninjas and came out alive. Him and Madara have the same plan and Madara knows him
Reasons for him being Kagami possible student of the second hokage who used space-time techniques and he uses space time ninjutsu that exceeds the second hokages and out of all the others who were shown in that flashback when Hiruzen was made hokage he is the only 1 who wasn't seen again we have seen Koharu Utatane(old ass counselor), Homura Mitokado(old ass counselor), Danzō Shimura (leader of root and anbu), and Torifu Akimichi(seen fighting nine tails during attack on leaf village) yet we have not seen Kagami again. he also appears to be pretty old in the little glimpses u get of him and he is old enough to have known Madara while Madara was alive and we also know a beef started up between the Uchiha's and the leaf
Reasons for Obitio he was a student of the fourth hokage who used space-time techniques and he uses space time ninjutsu. Kakashi and him use a similar not the same jutsu(leading speculation they have obito's eyes) he seems very familiar with kakashi and guy and states that they should know who he is.
Reasons for him not to be Izuna he has yet to show MS, and he himself said that Izuna died, madara unlocked the rinnegan if he is izuna why wouldn't he have unlocked the rinnegan as well he did go steal nagatos rinnegan and he would be way older looking than he looks in the little glimpses we get of him and i'm talking he would have to be significantly older looking than the current tsuchikage
Reasons for him not to be Kagami being a student of Tobirama wouldn't he have inherited the will of fire, why would he hate the Senju's and the Uchiha's he did take part in killing of clan. I cant think of many reasons why he wouldnt be Kagami
Reasons for him not to be Obito he did possess the will of fire as evidenced by admiration for kakashi's father and by going back for Rin, why would he hate the Uchiha's enough to take part in clan genocide we seen him get crushed by the boulder, we saw him give his eye to Kakashi he later displayed 2 eyes when he was fighting konnan, when he fought the 4th hokage he seemed completely suprised by his flying thunder god technique like he had never seen it before tobi is very smart would have seen that jutsu b4 and have known how to counter it, and how did he give rinnegan to Nagato despite being 2 generations younger than him
these are my pros and cons if any body else sees any mistakes in my logic tell me and if u have any other interesting add ons be my guest for the record i think he is 1 of these three uchihas or some type of the clone of the original Madara Uchiha
Reasons for him being Kagami possible student of the second hokage who used space-time techniques and he uses space time ninjutsu that exceeds the second hokages and out of all the others who were shown in that flashback when Hiruzen was made hokage he is the only 1 who wasn't seen again we have seen Koharu Utatane(old ass counselor), Homura Mitokado(old ass counselor), Danzō Shimura (leader of root and anbu), and Torifu Akimichi(seen fighting nine tails during attack on leaf village) yet we have not seen Kagami again. he also appears to be pretty old in the little glimpses u get of him and he is old enough to have known Madara while Madara was alive and we also know a beef started up between the Uchiha's and the leaf
Reasons for Obitio he was a student of the fourth hokage who used space-time techniques and he uses space time ninjutsu. Kakashi and him use a similar not the same jutsu(leading speculation they have obito's eyes) he seems very familiar with kakashi and guy and states that they should know who he is.
Reasons for him not to be Izuna he has yet to show MS, and he himself said that Izuna died, madara unlocked the rinnegan if he is izuna why wouldn't he have unlocked the rinnegan as well he did go steal nagatos rinnegan and he would be way older looking than he looks in the little glimpses we get of him and i'm talking he would have to be significantly older looking than the current tsuchikage
Reasons for him not to be Kagami being a student of Tobirama wouldn't he have inherited the will of fire, why would he hate the Senju's and the Uchiha's he did take part in killing of clan. I cant think of many reasons why he wouldnt be Kagami
Reasons for him not to be Obito he did possess the will of fire as evidenced by admiration for kakashi's father and by going back for Rin, why would he hate the Uchiha's enough to take part in clan genocide we seen him get crushed by the boulder, we saw him give his eye to Kakashi he later displayed 2 eyes when he was fighting konnan, when he fought the 4th hokage he seemed completely suprised by his flying thunder god technique like he had never seen it before tobi is very smart would have seen that jutsu b4 and have known how to counter it, and how did he give rinnegan to Nagato despite being 2 generations younger than him
these are my pros and cons if any body else sees any mistakes in my logic tell me and if u have any other interesting add ons be my guest for the record i think he is 1 of these three uchihas or some type of the clone of the original Madara Uchiha
I was thinking of a really abstract theory (I hope it's not like this though)
So, what if Tobi can, through his dimensional jutsu, travel between alternate realities?
The Tobi we see might be the original Tobi. This Tobi learned alot about Sharingan and its abilities. He became so good at S-T jutsu that he figured out how to absorb himself to his dimension. Inside, maybe there's something like rifts popping up that shows the view of another Tobi in a different reality which he can jump through and end up in?
He could actually be Obito if this is true (Which, like I said, hope it isn't because even if I thought this out I don't personally like it lol). So, what I'm saying is the original Obito isn't the Obito that was crushed under the rocks - It's just the Obito of the dimension the story takes place in. The original Obito is older and can travel back to younger versions of himself in different dimensions because these other Obitos have the same eye, but note this: He can't know which dimension he succeeds with his plan in because he doesn't know the future (And can't travel to dimensions where he is older than himself). This is how Tobi has all those Sharingan - he got all sharingan through dimension travlleing and sucked them into his dimension and later placed them in his lab in the "story dimension".
So why did he choose this dimension to stay in? Not completely sure tbh. Maybe he can only travel to a dimension where he is dead :S I think if he can use something like "dimension travelling" it's gonna at least cost an eye each time he uses it and that's why he has so many.
This theory might have holes and I think it would just be too complicated. I thought I should just post it because it opens up so many possibilities. Again, I hope it's something more simple. But maybe, just maybe, Kishi could have a really interesting version of something like my theory. Also this would mean there could potentially be more than one Tobi flying around through the dimensional space which is a weird thought.
So, what if Tobi can, through his dimensional jutsu, travel between alternate realities?
The Tobi we see might be the original Tobi. This Tobi learned alot about Sharingan and its abilities. He became so good at S-T jutsu that he figured out how to absorb himself to his dimension. Inside, maybe there's something like rifts popping up that shows the view of another Tobi in a different reality which he can jump through and end up in?
He could actually be Obito if this is true (Which, like I said, hope it isn't because even if I thought this out I don't personally like it lol). So, what I'm saying is the original Obito isn't the Obito that was crushed under the rocks - It's just the Obito of the dimension the story takes place in. The original Obito is older and can travel back to younger versions of himself in different dimensions because these other Obitos have the same eye, but note this: He can't know which dimension he succeeds with his plan in because he doesn't know the future (And can't travel to dimensions where he is older than himself). This is how Tobi has all those Sharingan - he got all sharingan through dimension travlleing and sucked them into his dimension and later placed them in his lab in the "story dimension".
So why did he choose this dimension to stay in? Not completely sure tbh. Maybe he can only travel to a dimension where he is dead :S I think if he can use something like "dimension travelling" it's gonna at least cost an eye each time he uses it and that's why he has so many.
This theory might have holes and I think it would just be too complicated. I thought I should just post it because it opens up so many possibilities. Again, I hope it's something more simple. But maybe, just maybe, Kishi could have a really interesting version of something like my theory. Also this would mean there could potentially be more than one Tobi flying around through the dimensional space which is a weird thought.
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The Pecking Order
Banned
why cant people just wait? im pretty sure on chapter 600 we get to see his face but thats a guess
matrixhutner
Member
Here is his face well half of it and lower half
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TobiIsYourMom
Member
Old? OLD?!
Lol, try looking at Tobi again.
I can't believe you could call those wrinkles...xd
Long answer: Nope.Ok, I finally have my theory on Tobi's identity.
Tobi IS Madara.
We've been trying to figure him out forced to the fact that since Edo Madara was revived he must've been someone else. We thought of anybody possible, trying to cope with all the possible explanations, guessing and guessing about any possible Uchiha or non-Uchiha.
Kishi's been trolling with us all the time.
Tobi IS Madara.
He never lied to anybody. All he said was true.
Madara awakened the Rinnegan short before dying. He read all the secrets on the Stone Momument. Who knows what secrets, aside the one of the So6P story, that monument reveals? With the EMS you discover the Rinnegan everyone thought being only a myth really exists and how to evolve into it (it's the logical step forward of a quest). What could have he read with the Rinnegan on the stone, who knows? How to prolong your life by transferring (if only a bit) of yourself (part of soul, body, who knows) into "something else"? With something else I mean Black Zetsu. Why don't we ever see black duplicates? Zetsu is not someone, is a something. Completely made out of the First DNA, perfectioned during the time into Zetsu, a useful servant.
Tobi is of course made (we don't know how much) of Zetsu's DNA.
Madara was pure genius, he must have planned how to survive "becoming" Tobi. Doing researchs, experiments, sharply plotting his come back.
Madara is somehow living inside this Tobi-body which is made up by Zetsu (First cells - to keep the Rinnegan activated and fuel it with the most power possible), has a Sharingan (probably not an EMS but we've never seen) specific for S/T jutsu, may have a third eye, sure he has now a Rinnegan instead of the Sharingan lost for Izanagi).
Madara was the best Uchiha ever. He could know all of the Uchiha ocular jutsus. He was able to awaken the Rinnegan. Legend.
Madara died and left what he could into this body he carefully prepared. He gave Nagato the Rinnegan since he wanted to test it and most of all he wanted to keep it safe and close (Nagato was from the Uzumaki clan, strong life, descendants of the First, he had to be the front leader behind Akatsuki). In Tobi's shape he couldn't use it properly. He only can use one jutsu per Sharingan (yes, per Sharingan...), he has lots of Sharingans collected in order to stock them and preventing anyone else from getting them, using if he needs them).
Madara was desperate to prolong his life since he managed to awaken the Rinnegan. He wanted to finally be superior to the First. He read on the stone with the Rinnegan he could become the Ten Tail's host.
He surely wants to complete his eye moon plan.
But Kabuto revived Edo-Madara specifically for a reason: threaten Tobi and gain hedge on him. Kabuto failed. Madara revived through the Edo and he's now free.
He's been dead since, how could he know how things turned out? He senses the Nine Tails and wants to to control it. His consciounsess and memory are not updated.
Madara died short before he started controlling the 4th Mizukage. He was still gathering the Tailed Beasts in order to become the Ten Tails Jinjuurichi. He died and left the rest of the plan to what he called Tobi. The name Tobi IS from Tobirama, because Madara planned for Tobi to use the Sharingan with S/T jutsu capabilities, that's what he only needed from "then" on. It's a mock of Tobirama's name, who was the master in that tecnique Madara surpassed. Minato clearly said it, he was able to defeat him only because Tobi proved itself not being strong enough for him within Tobi's body.
Since Madara has been revived, Tobi has no more meaning in calling himself Madara if the REAL one is around. So "he is NO ONE" from that moment on.
Tobi is worried about what Madara could do when he meets him, there will be TWO people wanting the same thing.
The Outer Path was meant to be used on Madara by Nagato when he was strong enough to revive him if the time has come for the Tailed Beasts to be gathered by Akatsuki. Then he could be alive again and finally become the Ten Tails' host and cast the infinite genjutsu.
But something went wrong: Nine-Tails and Eight-Tails not captured, Tobi had to start a war because he didn't manage to accomplish the mission. Nagato betrayed them and used it on Konoha's people. Ability gone.
Madara's going to be furious when he knows all these things. but hey, he's alive again and immortal! Perfect situation for completing his plan.
Tobi is worried because he's going to confront himself (the real Madara) at his best.
Kabuto's role is crucial since he revived Madara powered up.
There's one interesting thing I noticed about Kabuto. When he summons Edo-Tensei Madara, their first dialogue is to be reinterpreted: Madara was supposed to be brought back by Nagato via the Rinnegan. He discovers he's under Edo-Tensei and supposes only one person could have done it because the plan was not going well: Orochimaru. Kabuto says he's his "servant". He's referring to Orochimaru because he was the one working with Madara. They were looking through the same things (immortality, sharingans power). Orochimaru wanted Itachi's Sharingans (they were the best he could be capable of stealing) and has always been twisted and unpredictable.
Orochimaru will play a decisive role in this war. He may be lying when he says he's got no interest in this war but there's a chance he doesn't want to get involved with immortal Madara. He's definitely going to do something unpredictable, Orochimaru.
And yes, immortal Madara has a Curse Mark.
And yes, Sasuke wants to meet them: Tobi and Madara, after his little trip with Orochimaru.
Now, the final: if Tobi IS Madara, how come Tobi didn't know how Edo Tensei worked while Madara managed to release the contract? Was he fooling Kabuto? Why?
Orochimaru is somehow involved in it. If Tobi was created by Orochimaru AND Madara, Orochimaru must have been tricked Madara somehow.
Now, the conclusions: I tried to put all things together from the perspective that we've been looking too far from the real evidence. We've been under continuous deceptions from Kishi and it all started when we assumed Tobi was lying about being Madara.
I'm very confident that Orochimaru is deeply involved in it. I can't still be so sure about the kind of involvement, but in its simplicity I think the're still so many secrets to be revealed that goes in the direction I tried to trace with this post.
I know there are many uncertainties in my theory and some points should be more convincing but, in the end, I think Tobi IS Madara himself.
+rep to whoever will read this to the end.
Short answer: No.
:sy: Tobi represents opposition to Naruto. Your brain must be turned off if you don't realize such a thing by now.
Obito is the most relevant out of all the Tobi candidates. He's also the only one that's actually appeared in more then just 2 panels.
Why do you think Gaiden was in between Parts I and II anyway? Kishi had to make sure he introduced the true identity of Tobi first.
Also, it's the characters themselves that make great villains, not neccesarily who they're connected to. Although, in this case, the final villain being a fallen friend of Naruto's sensei and a fallen pupil of Naruto's father would be quite fitting. Especially considering that the theme of the manga is the new generation surpassing the previous. Obito would fit this theme whereas no other Tobi candidates would.
Obito was an exact parallel to Naruto(goggles, hair style, same orange and blue color scheme except reversed). So an evil Obito would therefore be the exact opposite of Naruto and therefore make a great final villain for the series.
So, by beating Tobi, Naruto would essentially be defeating and surpassing a fallen, evil version of himself from the generation directly before him, thus, completing the theme.
Not to mention that Obito was just like Naruto but was an UCHIHA. He'd be like a Naruto gone wrong. One that was affected by the Curse of Hatred.
With that, I rest my case on this matter.:scorps:
As for those so called timeline issues you've listed above, well I don't see a need to refute them. they are refutable, of course, but I feel other members have already layed down arguments against such "issues".
By a boulder, perhaps?
I seriously wonder why people use that as an argument against Tobi being Obito. it's almost as if they can't comprehend that people grow at different rates.xd
Minato was 5'9, and Tobi was a little shorter than that. It is surely not impossible for a teenager at the age of 15-16 to have been that tall.
Based on your assumptions about the timeline.
Obito theorists are the few that actually think outside the box. But, what you're suggesting is so many miles away from the box that it can't even be considered plausible.
Cuz debating's fun!
FIXED!:noc:
Also, compare these:
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Last edited:
SilverSlick
Banned
No ones mentioned my timeline, though its a bit "rough". I'm sure you scanned over just a bit but whatever. Kishimoto said in an interview that Tobi and Madara know each other. We know two things.Old? OLD?!
Lol, try looking at Tobi again.
I can't believe you could call those wrinkles...xd
Long answer: Nope.
Short answer: No.
:sy: Tobi represents opposition to Naruto. Your brain must be turned off if you don't realize such a thing by now.
Obito is the most relevant out of all the Tobi candidates. He's also the only one that's actually appeared in more then just 2 panels.
Why do you think Gaiden was in between Parts I and II anyway? Kishi had to make sure he introduced the true identity of Tobi first.
Also, it's the characters themselves that make great villains, not neccesarily who they're connected to. Although, in this case, the final villain being a fallen friend of Naruto's sensei and a fallen pupil of Naruto's father would be quite fitting. Especially considering that the theme of the manga is the new generation surpassing the previous. Obito would fit this theme whereas no other Tobi candidates would.
Obito was an exact parallel to Naruto(goggles, hair style, same orange and blue color scheme except reversed). So an evil Obito would therefore be the exact opposite of Naruto and therefore make a great final villain for the series.
So, by beating Tobi, Naruto would essentially be defeating and surpassing a fallen, evil version of himself from the generation directly before him, thus, completing the theme.
Not to mention that Obito was just like Naruto but was an UCHIHA. He'd be like a Naruto gone wrong. One that was affected by the Curse of Hatred.
With that, I rest my case on this matter.:scorps:
As for those so called timeline issues you've listed above, well I don't see a need to refute them. they are refutable, of course, but I feel other members have already layed down arguments against such "issues".
By a boulder, perhaps?
I seriously wonder why people use that as an argument against Tobi being Obito. it's almost as if they can't comprehend that people grow at different rates.xd
Minato was 5'9, and Tobi was a little shorter than that. It is surely not impossible for a teenager at the age of 15-16 to have been that tall.
Based on your assumptions about the timeline.
Obito theorists are the few that actually think outside the box. But, what you're suggesting is so many miles away from the box that it can't even be considered plausible.
Cuz debating's fun!
FIXED!:noc:
Also, compare these:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
2. Madara was expecting Nagato to revive him
Based on these two things, we can assume that Nagato had Madara's eyes. We can also conclude that he died shortly after giving Nagato the Rinnegan.
Madara probably died before Obito was born or when he was an infant because Obito is near the same age as Nagato. So there's probably no way Tobi would know Madara if he were Obito.
Proof for Izuna:
Went out to Chapters the other day and looked at some Naruto volumes, the bit where Tobi recently retrieves Nagato's eyes and Kabuto comments on it, Tobi says "They (the eyes) were always mine!"
Madara took Izuna's eyes, Tobi theoretically gave Madara's eyes to Nagto and then took them back.
"They were always mine" makes me believe they were Tobi's from the beginning, hence, Izuna's eyes.
Also thought I'd repost this for the 39084734th time for those who haven't seen it.
Back then, we ignored this little arm clutch because a lot of us assumed Tobi actually WAS Madara. Now we know he isn't. This subtle scene shows Tobi emotionally disturbed in SOME WAY about the Madara/Izuna backstory. Perhaps Tobi was lying about some aspects of the back-story in order to win Sasuke over (just like he lied about the Nine-Tails being a "natural disaster").
Do these examples make sense with Obito? Nope.
Went out to Chapters the other day and looked at some Naruto volumes, the bit where Tobi recently retrieves Nagato's eyes and Kabuto comments on it, Tobi says "They (the eyes) were always mine!"
Madara took Izuna's eyes, Tobi theoretically gave Madara's eyes to Nagto and then took them back.
"They were always mine" makes me believe they were Tobi's from the beginning, hence, Izuna's eyes.
Also thought I'd repost this for the 39084734th time for those who haven't seen it.
You must be registered for see images
Back then, we ignored this little arm clutch because a lot of us assumed Tobi actually WAS Madara. Now we know he isn't. This subtle scene shows Tobi emotionally disturbed in SOME WAY about the Madara/Izuna backstory. Perhaps Tobi was lying about some aspects of the back-story in order to win Sasuke over (just like he lied about the Nine-Tails being a "natural disaster").
Do these examples make sense with Obito? Nope.
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