Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

[ismael]

Spoiler

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Tobi's height: 175 cm
Tobi's weight: 55.9 kg

Izuna's height: 174.8 cm
Izuna's weight: 55.9 kg

Also, there is virtually no difference between them in height since we're talking in terms of centimeters.

You are right and have facts to support my theory.Rep +
tobi is izuna with zetsu cells because:
-he knows a lot about madara and uchiha history
-he claims that nagato's rinnengan were his to begin with because madara stole his mangekyou sharingan and then got the ems,went to fight the 1rst hokage,awoken the rinnengan and then gave it to nagato. He is basically right because his eyes were the one madara gave to nagato.
-he also knows about the sage of the six paths because he probably read the stone tablet in the uchiha hideout
PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME, IT'S JUST A THEORY

 

[dareak]

Honestly, many of these arguments make sense. At this point Tobi could be many of these people.

I think that Tobi is a Zetsu that was either, taught by Madara/has a part of Madara's mind/is Madara himself.

A Zetsu with your own mind would be pretty loyal to your dreams. Although it would still be able to make its own decisions. Having a part/all of Madara within Tobi would also explain all the defense of Madara taking Izuna's eyes, hating Konoha, ect.

It would also make sense that Tobi didn't bring Madara back because, who would want to bring back a more powerful version of yourself when you think you can do the job on your own?
This would also explain why Tobi didn't like it when Kabuto showed him Madara.

This is also supported by the Zetsu slush arm.


I still think that there is a chance for Tobi to be many of the other people, but in my opinion the largest possibility rests with the above theory.

 

[TheLastSamurai]

it's the ramen guy, simple as that. get over it! =D

 

[Bloodytaste]

No ones mentioned my timeline, though its a bit "rough". I'm sure you scanned over just a bit but whatever. Kishimoto said in an interview that Tobi and Madara know each other. We know two things.

1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
2. Madara was expecting Nagato to revive him

Based on these two things, we can assume that Nagato had Madara's eyes. We can also conclude that he died shortly after giving Nagato the Rinnegan.

Madara probably died before Obito was born or when he was an infant because Obito is near the same age as Nagato. So there's probably no way Tobi would know Madara if he were Obito.

This could also be a misconclusion. We do not really know right now, if Madara gave his own eyes to Nagato, or that he was the one " activating" this eyes inside of him. The Problem is, that we saw in the Manga, that Nagato activated the Rinnegan, but only hear, that Tobi said while taking Madaras ID " i was the one giving him this eyes" This does not mean, he took his own and put it in Nagatos Head. This would be kinda ridicoulos. I mean if Madara really died shortly after activating it, there wouldn't be time Left to give Nagato this eyes. I mean why did he searched for someone who can handle the Rinnegan? I mean, how would madara know that he would die, shortly before activating his own eyes? Do we have an furtune Teller over here? Dont belive, that he planned on giving Nagato his own eyes. I think Nagato really got the Rinnegan by himself, but Madara maybe was the key, possbily activating it.

And dont forget! It cant be Izuna if Nagatos Eyes were Madaras! U Have to realize that, Madaras Eyes were once Izunas, that would mean, that Tobi would have the full control of the Rinnegan, as Madara, by changing its shape from Sharingan, to MS to Rinnegan, but its like Pains. So this should do enough, to prove that this Rinnegan, that tobi has got is not Madaras, or that Tobi is not Izuna.

So choose if u think it is Izuna, then Nagato activated the Rinnegan on his own.( Because the Rinnegan Eye that Tobi as Izuna got, would be his own)
But this would mean, that Tobi could also be Obito or some other character.
If u say the Rinnegan is Madaras, then u disaprove all canidates, Izuna as well as Obito. Well the only one Left would be Kagami, but he is just a noname Uchiha ~


( One small guess: anyone thought about Tobi beeing Izuna & Obito? There were so many theories, about him beeing madara in Obito body, why wont it make sense to make him Izuna in Obitos body? Beeing able to feel, and know Obitos Memorys, as well as his Eye Techniques. I checked Narutopedia etc, and found out that Obito and Izuna share many similarties, Bloodytype, Brithday, gave away there eye for someone precious, " died " on the battlefield.)

 

[XCrixusX]

how tobi can be obito if kishimoto said that he and madara knew each other?
guys search on google because i cannot post naruto 597 spoiler and then you will find more about who is tobi.

 

[castiel22]

Criteria For Tobi’s Identity

1) He is from the time of Hashirama Senju, and needs to be someone the Kyuubi would instantly recognize.

He is instantly recognized by the Kyuubi, who as far as we know has been sealed away in an Uzumaki jinchuuriki ever since the battle at the Valley of the End, where Uzumaki Mito sealed it into herself. There are no reports of the Kyuubi having broken free aside from in Yondaime’s time. This means that Tobi is someone the Kyuubi met during the time of Hashirama.

Given the way in which he speaks of past events, he has first-hand knowledge of and was emotionally investment in the Uchiha/Senju conflict.

Izuna fits: Uchiha Izuna was from this time period, and for obvious reasons, was personally and emotionally invested in fighting the Senju.

For the point that Kurama recognizes him i think when Tobi controlled Kurama 16 years ago he wasn't using his own Sharingan i think when Madara revived Izuna he returned with his Mangekyou and overused it and was on the merge to lose sight as Itachi and maybe when Obito was crashed under the rock he transplanted his eyes and used another Uchiha eye for the left one so that Kurama didn't recognize him because when he controlled him it wasn't his eyes

Criteria For Tobi’s Identity
2) He has to have a credible reason for being pissed off at the Uchiha’s making peace with the Senju, and needs to be personally, emotionally invested in Uchiha Izuna’s eyes being given to Uchiha Madara.

“What kind of monster would hurt his beloved younger brother?! All I ever wanted was to protect the Uchiha clan! […] My younger brother accepted his role and willingly gave his eyes to me….[Tobi clenches his arms in anger]. What happened to the hatred we had for them?! What did my brother sacrifice his eyes for?!”

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Izuna fits: He has ample reason to be pissed off at the Uchiha, even more so than Uchiha Madara; he sacrificed his eyes and possibly his life to give Madara the EMS in order to protect the Uchiha in their fight against the Senju, only to have them go and make peace? Why did he sacrifice his eyes and his life for them, then?!

3) He has a credible reason for claiming that the eyes Nagato had “were [his] to begin with.”

Izuna fits: If we accept the likelihood that Nagato’s eyes used to be Uchiha Madara’s (who is the only person we know which awakened the Rinnegan), then we also accept that Nagato’s eyes originally belonged to Uchiha Izuna’s, as we know that Uchiha Madara’s EMS eyes originally belonged to Izuna. Izuna fits this perfectly; no one else has a better credible reason to claim Nagato’s eyes “were his to begin with” than Izuna.

i totally agree with you

Criteria For Tobi’s Identity

4) He needs to be a person whom Uchiha Madara will trust with his own life and rebirth.

Madara trusted Tobi to bring him back to life with Nagato’s powers. This is a major deal. Who would the great Uchiha Madara trust with his own life?

If we accept Madara’s statement that he awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death, then this also means that he had only a very short period of time to transplant the Rinnegan into child Nagato. This means that he was 100%, utterly dependent on Tobi to carry out the ‘plan’ he mentioned to Kabuto, which included his resurrection.

Madara also gave Tobi access to the Hashirama-related power which he had nearly died for; an incredible show of trust.

Izuna fits: He is Uchiha Madara’s younger brother, and brotherly ties are a major focal point of this manga. We know that Rinnei Tensei can bring the dead back to life, and we know that Uchiha Madara gained the Rinnegan before dying. It would make sense if he used the Rinnegan to bring back Izuna.

Counter-Argument: Nagato wasn’t able to bring back Jiraiya because he had died too long ago! How could Madara bring back Izuna, who had died even longer ago!

Response: Uchiha Madara planned to use Nagato to bring himself back to life. If we accept that Madara died while Nagato was a child (which is necessary, as Nagato was given the Rinnegan as a child), and that Nagato was expected to ‘grow’ into his power, then this shows Madara thought it was fully possible for Nagato to resurrect him, despite years having passed. Which indicates that it is also fully possible for Madara to resurrect Izuna, despite years having passed.

Nagato wasn't able to bring back Jiraiya because he had too died long ago but if it was full chakra Nagato he would be able to do it. Nagato died because he overused his Rinnegan to revive the people died in Konoha so if Madara claimed that he activated the Rinnegan before his death that's because he used almost all of his chakra to revive Izuna and tell him about his plans and tell him to implant the Rinnegan to Young Nagato and use Hashi's cells to live longer and to collect bijuu for Infinite Tsukuyomi for the brothers to rule the world.

Criteria For Tobi’s Identity
5) He needs to have a credible grudge against Konoha, and has to have waited a long time for his vengeance against Konoha.
Spoken to Kushina: “Do you have any idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?!”

Izuna fits: His reason for a grudge against Konoha are obvious and profound; he gave his eyes to fight against the Senju who controlled the village, then eventually expelled his brother out from it. If we accept that he died or was maimed back in Hashirama’s days, then he has been waiting a long, long time indeed for his vengeance.

6) Tobi needs to be an Uchiha.

Although not Madara, Tobi still needs to have an Uchiha’s body; he uses the sharingan with expertise not seen outside a native Uchiha, and does not appear to have any problems with his body not being suited for the sharingan.

Izuna fits: Self-explanatory.

7) Tobi has to have a credible reason for being at least partly made out of Zetsu goo, even as far back as the fight with Yondaime.

Izuna somewhat fits: Tobi claims that Uchiha Izuna died in battle after losing his eyes. Knowing that Rinnei Tensi is capable of bringing the dead back, and also knowing that Zetsu goo is based off of Hashirama’s DNA, it’s credible that for Madara to bring Izuna back, he had to use Zetsu goo for whatever reason. Admittedly, more data is required here.

8) He has an old, wrinkly face, despite being partially made out of Zetsu goo.

Izuna fits: If we accept that Izuna was brought back to life with the Rinnegan while Nagato was a child, then at least 30+ years have passed, as we know that Nagato (being Jiraiya’s first disciple) should be as old or older than Minato. If Izuna was brought back in a partially ‘real’ body which aged, and if he had died in his 20’s, then he would now be in his 50’s or 60’s, explaining the wrinkly face. This is also supported by the fact that he indicates if Itachi knew some of his secrets, the Amaterasu would have killed him, indicating that at least part of him was non-Zetsu goo and thus vulnerable to being killed.

I completely agree with you

 

[Bloodytaste]

how tobi can be obito if kishimoto said that he and madara knew each other?

because madara lived much longer?

I don't think its Izuna, why should Izuna be afraid of his brother in a coffin? Does not make sense. Even Madara stated, that Izuna is dead. So why should Madara talk of Tobi in third person, refering him as " his " ? It kinda seems like madara does not have a real personal/emotional connection to Tobi. Why? Maybe because he is not Izuna? Maybe Tobi betrayed him, by taking over his ID, and using madaras Plan for his own purpose? This would more fit to Tobis personality as we know. If u think Izuna fits in there, then everyone else would also fit, u can not just ignore this ~

 

[Lentz]

It will be a total waste of suspense if Tobi turns out to be Izuna, Obito, or that Uchiha guy who was with Tobirama. I just don't see a reason why would Kishi keep Tobi's face hidden for so long, just to reveal that he is some random Uchiha guy no one gives a damn about.

 

[kent0005]

Pretty sure tobi is a older uchiha clansmen. In order for madara to know tobi must have lived long enough to meet him, uchiha kagami and uchiha izuna are the only people who could have lived to meet him. Even if tobi gave rinnegan to nagato, Tobi would have associated with madara and rules out obito as he didnt exist around his time.
Considering tobi vast amount of knowledge and motivation I assumed uchiha izuna, but their are two flaws to it, make me not 100% certain. First, madara after harishama battle must have been weak state i dont understand how he would have strength to revive his brother who died long ago. Second, if tobi were to take off his mask, how would others recognize him as izuna, when none of his current opponents existed to recognize him. If tobi was uchiha kagami would be more recognizable to his foes cause once part of konoha village. I always suspected tobi as someone from the village as he has access to village so easily. So Uchiha kagami still seems possible to me, although a lot of explaining to do.

 

[UzumakiNIN]

Its so Obvious Who Tobi is!!! He even says his own name. he is Nobody! and who from history took on the name of nobody? well Odyssius of course!! that would explain the wrinkles and the desire to rule the world!! Because he is super confused that he is in a ninja realm when he is a Greek hero! haha I win!!

 

[Box]

You guys have to be joking thinking Tobi is still Obito.

Obito was on the 4th's team and was crushed by a rock.
Tobi standing a lot taller later fought the 4th Hokage and released the 9 tails on the village.
That is proof enough that Tobi is not Obito.
Plan and simple Obito is dead.

Tobi is not Zetsu otherwise everything he has said to this point would be completely meaningless.

During the 1st Hokage's and Madar's battle we can go ahead and assume that somehow they "merged" or the 1st was partially absorbed by Madara. This was probably due fact to some plan he had in the beginning that possibly didn't go 100% as planned.

I would say this is how Zetsu was probably created.

We also know that the Rinnegan has to be awakened. Nagato doesn't know how he got it or what happened to him when it started happening. Here we can go ahead and state that it was probably given to him by Tobi/Madara. We also know this because of how weak Nagato was when it came to performing moves of the Sage of The Six Paths. It took way too much chakra, took a toll on his body, and he was still not able to compete with how the techniques are supposed to be "mastered". Nagato was a Uzuamaki so he obviously possessed massive amounts of Chakra.

 

[ast_sir]

haha! Raamen guy is on 4th place, guys vote for RAAMEN GUY )

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[fmfreak]

The idea of it being Shisui is intriguing to me. Kabuto made a special mention that Jirayas body was at the bottom of the ocean, and specifically Danzo and Shusui couldn't be found.

Itachi's explanation about koto-amatsukami will tell you that shisui had ideals same as naruto i.e. to protect konoha unlike tobi and moreover itachi said that shisui gave his remaining eye to itachi and killed himself.
Danzo too made sure to destroy his body before tobi got hold of him.

Any one noticed that tobi's eye was black when he revealed himself to sasuke after his battle with itachi????
was it because (maybe) he is a broken free edo tensei of some uchiha or because the damn cave was just too dark??

 

[HokageTobiramaXx]

sad that there's gonna be no manga till the 20th

 

[fmfreak]

Madara states that he unlocked the Rinnegan shortly before he died.

Also, he can't switch between his Sharingan or Rinnegan. Why? He didn't unlock them. Madara unlocked EMS and Rinnegan, so he can switch easily. I'll post my theory after some people post.

awesome point :ice:

 

[0moi]

I'm pretty sure Kishi doesn't care about being "too obvious", It's amusing how the people that say it's Izuna continue to say it would be too obvious that it's Obito..... You guys think it's Izuna, the brother of Madara, this is also very much "too obvious" but it has no type of substance to back it up. Izuna died, was never brought back from what the manga\anime shows....

So he would be about as old as Kakashi and Guy back then, and as old as Naruto and Sasuke now. So... it COULD be Obito...right?

Actually Obito & Kakashi were indeed the same age, Kakashi became a jounin at 13, his first mission as a new jounin was the 1 Obito "died" on, Obito died at 13. They were the same age give or take a few months

 

[supino]

hi, new here. Other than that, as it seems we will all be getting a response on that matter sooner or later. As for Tobi's ID, it has probably been one of the most discussed subjects in this manga for efffin' ever... so, it better be plot relevant!

imho Tobi and Izuna are interesting characters, but seem like fodder; they were there to fuel up the stories (and powers) of Kakashi and Madara respectively. Not saying, it is absolutely not them, but that it would be somehow disappointing if it were just that, you know just bringing more dead people back into the story for another angsty confrontation.

still digging the idea Tobi is something (like zetsu) artificial and not an actual person and that he has sth to do with Madara, at least the part of the plan -or maybe the original plan was just- about reviving Madara; but for some reasons Tobi started to act outside the original idea.

Basically anything (any idea or theory) that gives Tobi a solid identity sounds good. Besides it could be that this is the point with this character, hence the mask, that he is in search for his own identity... I don't know, just saying...

 

[Nerow]

haha! Raamen guy is on 4th place, guys vote for RAAMEN GUY )

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100% agree

 

[Edge]

I'm pretty sure Kishi doesn't care about being "too obvious", It's amusing how the people that say it's Izuna continue to say it would be too obvious that it's Obito..... You guys think it's Izuna, the brother of Madara, this is also very much "too obvious" but it has no type of substance to back it up. Izuna died, was never brought back from what the manga\anime shows....

Actually Obito & Kakashi were indeed the same age, Kakashi became a jounin at 13, his first mission as a new jounin was the 1 Obito "died" on, Obito died at 13. They were the same age give or take a few months

It's also amusing how Obito died, and there is no substance to back up his supposed reincarnation. Problem?

 

[Sierra G719]

My theory revolves around the the speculation that "Tobi" is not a single person, but an alias that refers to multiple people (like Pain)

This theory also supports that Madara is Tobi (or atleast was Tobi) and Obito in some extent is Tobi.

So the theory starts out way before the series actually starts with Madara Uchiha co founder of the Hidden Leaf Village. From what we know he is angry that the Uchihas had submitted to the Senjus and thus wanted revenge. Madara then created the visage "Tobi" an actual representation of the Uchiha's Curse of Hatred. Madara (under the guise of Tobi) sent the 9 tails in order to destroy Konoha but was intercepted by Minato and the 9 Tails ripped from Tobi's control. Some where down the line, age has caught up with Madara and he passes away... but the Curse of Hatred isn't broken so easily. He takes the a Zetsu Clone transforms it to look like a fallen Uchiha... Obito Uchiha. This new "Tobi" is the one who wreaks havoc in Madara's stead but keeps the name "Madara" to instill fear in all those.


In the end, it was all according to Madara's design. The Uchiha Clan Massacre, the Akatsuki, Sasuke wanting to destroy the Leaf... All for revenge.

Well what do you think? Sorry for the probably numerous inconsistencies, but you get the picture.