Excluding Kurama, does Naruto have more Chakra than EMS madara?

ninjarasengan

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lol.. this is confusing. The bold does not seem possible because its stated that excess chakra cannot be reconverted back into stamina ( ) but rather goes to waste. Kurama chakra=/= stamina and it would be weird to think baby Nardo had the ability to convert chakra into stamina.
This is what i was thinking...and that the Naruto's situation was similar to the Edo tensei's, with chakra continuously refilling his reserves...but not forcefully expanding them. otherwise, Naruto only having 4 times kakashi's amount by the time he is 16 makes no sense. Especially after seeing what saving some of her chakra for 3 years did for Sakura.

Seems like Kishi might've screwed up here...
 

salamander uchiha

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lol.. this is confusing. The bold does not seem possible because its stated that excess chakra cannot be reconverted back into stamina ( ) but rather goes to waste. Kurama chakra=/= stamina and it would be weird to think baby Nardo had the ability to convert chakra into stamina.
Trolling as always Jinrou and using school boy logic. Naruto isn't a regular character he's a Jinchuriki the normal rule doesn't apply to him. We know this because Kishi clarrified it in the manga when he made several references to it. A couple are Naruto having large stamina due to the 9 tails influence or Naruto's own chakra reserves being large due to Kurama. You need to understand in reading their is the general rule and then there are the exceptions. Just as Izanagi requires Senju and Uchiha DNA to use (the normal rule) yet Madara can use it without senju DNA (the exception).

Edit: what chakra was Naruto mixing here when he was holding Sasuke and raging? Yet he still went 9 tails mode.

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This is what i was thinking...and that the Naruto's situation was similar to the Edo tensei's, with chakra continuously refilling his reserves...but not forcefully expanding them. otherwise, Naruto only having 4 times kakashi's amount by the time he is 16 makes no sense. Especially after seeing what saving some of her chakra for 3 years did for Sakura.

Seems like Kishi might've screwed up here...
That's true but for normal individuals, Jinchuriki don't fall into the normal or general category. Naruto's reserves do rise and are increased because of Kurama even his stamina accrosing to Kakashi and Kishi. That's how Kishi wrote it and he clarified it by making it clear in the manga.
 
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Jinrou

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This is what i was thinking...and that the Naruto's situation was similar to the Edo tensei's, with chakra continuously refilling his reserves...but not forcefully expanding them. otherwise, Naruto only having 4 times kakashi's amount by the time he is 16 makes no sense. Especially after seeing what saving some of her chakra for 3 years did for Sakura.

Seems like Kishi might've screwed up here...
Yeah.. Another example would be the fact Naruto with his own reserves in p1 couldn't make a desired summoning according to Jiraiya [ ] and yet an amount of Kurama chakra that wasn't enough to force Naruto into a mode like the one against Neji was what summoned Bunta.

So this supposed 12 years leak expanding reserves + Naruto's chakra could not match up with that amount of Kurama chakra? Doesn't make sense. Especially when Jiraiya wasn't expecting him to make a boss summon. [ ]

Anyway reading through all this, i don't think Kishi messed up.. Probably just we've probably all had bad interpretation of it. Its stated Naruto can't reconvert chakra back to stamina as well [ ] so there's no way Kurama chakra would increase Naruto's stamina. It also looks like its only when Naruto wants to use chakra that Kurama's own leaks. [ ]-[ ]

Also, apparently Naruto's body works to suppress Kurama's entire chakra? [ ] Think that would be enough to increase his stamina.. It would be the same for Gaara and makes sense as it is still because of the bijuu they are holding that they have amazing stamina.
 
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InfiniteMugen

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lol.. this is confusing. The bold does not seem possible because its stated that excess chakra cannot be reconverted back into stamina ( ) but rather goes to waste. Kurama chakra=/= stamina and it would be weird to think baby Nardo had the ability to convert chakra into stamina.
The tailed beasts are essentially living masses of chakra, so there’s that. Much like the seal naruto created once he beat Kurama allowed him to syphon out a boat load of chakra to use kcm and all that; minatos seal seemed to allow Kuramas chakra to mix in with narutos at a rate neither had any control over(very little). The specifics are missing, like I get what your saying, Kuramas chakra is always represented as reddish and different, it’s a lil odd that when it leaks it automatically gets adapted to narutos chakra(we can physically see when he’s using Kuramas chakra every time, and when he’s using his own) I’ve got 2 thoughts tho.

1. The seal does it for him, easiest writers explanation imo

2. Kuramas chakra is represented differently because of his hatred of naruto(I.e. we see the orange chakra cause usually Kurama is about to be, or in control) it’s possible the visual difference wouldn’t be there as they are now all buddy buddy. Using Kuramas chakra for basic things now like rasengan or clones wouldn’t necessarily bring out any visual effects anymore outside of using his chakra modes as before it was partly Kurama forcing his way out(so to speak).

Just my overthinking on it lol there’s also the third option, writing inconsistency lol

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think narutos reserves are low by any means, but it’s hard to gauge what his own reserves would be because of this. There’s also the fact a lot of people leave out that naruto wouldn’t be the character we know in anything but looks(minus whiskers) without having Kurama sealed in him since birth. At least imo.

Sally’s assumptions about his actual chakra levels are just that, assumptions, but the actual panel that says it’s been mixing with his natural reserves at a tiny rate are there. It’s also important to remember bee, naruto, and gaara all had different seals, and I’m pretty sure kushinas differed from narutos
 
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salamander uchiha

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Sally’s assumptions about his actual chakra levels are just that, assumptions, but the actual panel that says it’s been mixing with his natural reserves at a tiny rate are there. It’s also important to remember bee, naruto, and gaara all had different seals, and I’m pretty sure kushinas differed from narutos
My assumptions are assumptions however Kakashi attributes Naruto's amazing stamina to the 9 tails. At this point he had a 4 in ztamina star while Kakashi had a 3.
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Rationale tells you without it it's not amazing(average at best). Btw the scan also confirms that Naruto's stamina (pre chakra) is also affected by the 9 tails so anybody(not directed at you) stating he doesn't receive chakra or it doesn't mix with his is blind

Another point is Naruto has internal and external 9 tails chakra which Jiraiya made clear. The external(cloak etc) causes a change in his features via overload. The internal is still there mixing with his and healing him if it didn't mix with his it wouldn't be able to heal him(not directed at you).

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That's ignoring the other scans and points.

Anyway the reason I quoted you was to confirm that Kushina's seal is different to Naruto's, sje uses the chains technique to seal the 9 tails inside herself.
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InfiniteMugen

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My assumptions are assumptions however Kakashi attributes Naruto's amazing stamina to the 9 tails. At this point he had a 4 in ztamina star while Kakashi had a 3.
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Rationale tells you without it it's not amazing(average at best). Btw the scan also confirms that Naruto's stamina (pre chakra) is also affected by the 9 tails so anybody(not directed at you) stating he doesn't receive chakra or it doesn't mix with his is blind

Another point is Naruto has internal and external 9 tails chakra which Jiraiya made clear. The external(cloak etc) causes a change in his features via overload. The internal is still there mixing with his and healing him if it didn't mix with his it wouldn't be able to heal him(not directed at you).

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That's ignoring the other scans and points.

Anyway the reason I quoted you was to confirm that Kushina's seal is different to Naruto's, sje uses the chains technique to seal the 9 tails inside herself.
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Narutos stamina as we know him yea, very dependent on Kurama. Narutos stamina/chakra on his own from birth is a literal unknown as even his personality and issues he had with chakra to begin with would be different/not there. We know uzumakis are pretty stamina efficient, we know narutos stamina is always being mentioned(but of course, there’s things Kurama variant for him). You could say his hair is blonde and those uzumakis are red, but we also don’t know their lineage, so for all we know all their parents had red hair, which makes it no judgement on his stamina seeing as how being half doesn’t seem to do much negatively so far.

Naruto as a character exists intertwined with Kurama, his entire being, personality, and powers have all been dictated by it. It’s hard to say what he’d be without him
 

MightGai

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lol.. this is confusing. The bold does not seem possible because its stated that excess chakra cannot be reconverted back into stamina ( ) but rather goes to waste. Kurama chakra=/= stamina and it would be weird to think baby Nardo had the ability to convert chakra into stamina.
The wording is confusing there, since it specifically says "Sasuke cannot convert back ..." instead of "Chakra cannot be converted back to stamina".
 

Jinrou

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The tailed beasts are essentially living masses of chakra, so there’s that. Much like the seal naruto created once he beat Kurama allowed him to syphon out a boat load of chakra to use kcm and all that; minatos seal seemed to allow Kuramas chakra to mix in with narutos at a rate neither had any control over(very little). The specifics are missing, like I get what your saying, Kuramas chakra is always represented as reddish and different, it’s a lil odd that when it leaks it automatically gets adapted to narutos chakra(we can physically see when he’s using Kuramas chakra every time, and when he’s using his own) I’ve got 2 thoughts tho.

1. The seal does it for him, easiest writers explanation imo

2. Kuramas chakra is represented differently because of his hatred of naruto(I.e. we see the orange chakra cause usually Kurama is about to be, or in control) it’s possible the visual difference wouldn’t be there as they are now all buddy buddy. Using Kuramas chakra for basic things now like rasengan or clones wouldn’t necessarily bring out any visual effects anymore outside of using his chakra modes as before it was partly Kurama forcing his way out(so to speak).

Just my overthinking on it lol there’s also the third option, writing inconsistency lol

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think narutos reserves are low by any means, but it’s hard to gauge what his own reserves would be because of this. There’s also the fact a lot of people leave out that naruto wouldn’t be the character we know in anything but looks(minus whiskers) without having Kurama sealed in him since birth. At least imo.

Sally’s assumptions about his actual chakra levels are just that, assumptions, but the actual panel that says it’s been mixing with his natural reserves at a tiny rate are there. It’s also important to remember bee, naruto, and gaara all had different seals, and I’m pretty sure kushinas differed from narutos
Well tbh i don't know anymore lol but I think it would have been stated or at least Ebisu wouldn't have mentioned the fact Naruto also cannot convert chakra back into stamina if the seal did that. It's also weird at least to me that despite the leakage supposedly expanding his stamina for over 12 years, Gaara's stamina would be superior to Naruto's as at db2.

lol at the bold.. I used to think his reserves would be low without Kurama until i saw that Uzumaki's actually have enormous reserves in db4 xD

The wording is confusing there, since it specifically says "Sasuke cannot convert back ..." instead of "Chakra cannot be converted back to stamina".
He says the same for Naruto as well..
 
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InfiniteMugen

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Well tbh i don't know anymore lol but I think it would have been stated or at least Ebisu wouldn't have mentioned the fact Naruto also cannot convert chakra back into stamina if the seal did that. It's also weird at least to me that despite the leakage supposedly expanding his stamina for over 12 years, Gaara's stamina would be superior to Naruto's as at db2.

lol at the bold.. I used to think his reserves would be low without Kurama until i saw that Uzumaki's actually have enormous reserves in db4 xD
Yea I’m starting to think all our fan nitpicking has uncovered something here
 

MightGai

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He says the same for Naruto as well..
Not directly. He says that the chakra is wasted as with the other example, but for Sasuke's example he specifically says that he cannot convert it back to stamina. Not that he or anyone couldn't do it in the future, I guess what it's trying to imply is that kneading chakra (like when Tobirama was discussing with Hashirama and the latter asks if he sensed someone, Tobirama says "I wasn't kneading chakra") while not actually using it for a jutsu may be possible to convert it back to stamina.
 

Styles

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Well tbh i don't know anymore lol but I think it would have been stated or at least Ebisu wouldn't have mentioned the fact Naruto also cannot convert chakra back into stamina if the seal did that. It's also weird at least to me that despite the leakage supposedly expanding his stamina for over 12 years, Gaara's stamina would be superior to Naruto's as at db2.

lol at the bold.. I used to think his reserves would be low without Kurama until i saw that Uzumaki's actually have enormous reserves in db4 xD



He says the same for Naruto as well..
@Bold You would think wouldn’t you? Which is why it’s odd that Karin reserves are so low or average at best despite being Uzumaki. DB and the manga always contradict each other also. Manga Uzumaki = vitality. DB Uzumaki = Chakra.
 

salamander uchiha

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@Bold You would think wouldn’t you? Which is why it’s odd that Karin reserves are so low or average at best despite being Uzumaki. DB and the manga always contradict each other also. Manga Uzumaki = vitality. DB Uzumaki = Chakra.
It's a mistranslation, all data book entries correspond with the panel being mentioned or an event that took place in the panel. If you look at the Viz traslated Databook 3 that''s how it goes. This translation sort of reminds me of that fan one which said Nagato's rinnegan gives him immunity to visual genjutsu. Even if was correct as you pointed out Karin has low reserves which is a clear contradiction. What's worse is that he tries to establish that as something of a feat to prove Naruto's reserves when he's 1/2 Uzumaki and a fraction of them in ability. As an example Kushina survived childbirth and full 9 tails extraction, was fully concious and had the ability to restrain it while Naruto pretty much died on the spot.
 

Prometheus 2000

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Naruto spent 10 months within Kushina's womb getting influenced by Kurama's power. He was naturally going to have large reserves because of that. And if Ginkaku and Kinkaku are anything to go by, Naruto would have been just like them probably.
 

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Not directly. He says that the chakra is wasted as with the other example, but for Sasuke's example he specifically says that he cannot convert it back to stamina. Not that he or anyone couldn't do it in the future, I guess what it's trying to imply is that kneading chakra (like when Tobirama was discussing with Hashirama and the latter asks if he sensed someone, Tobirama says "I wasn't kneading chakra") while not actually using it for a jutsu may be possible to convert it back to stamina.
It would be redundant specifying that Naruto also cannot reconvert if its something that cannot be done at all. That said 40% goes to waste suggests that is the case and in the event that i'm incorrect (though i don't recollect the Tobirama scenario) its irrelevant to this topic as at that point, Naruto could not reconvert Chakra back into stamina and so Kurama's chakra can't expand his stamina as well. The seal was said to only let it leak through nothing about conversion.

Not to mention Kakashi doesn't even mention Kurama's chakra but Kurama's influence which could be anything tbh.

@Bold You would think wouldn’t you? Which is why it’s odd that Karin reserves are so low or average at best despite being Uzumaki. DB and the manga always contradict each other also. Manga Uzumaki = vitality. DB Uzumaki = Chakra.
Agreed. But that does not mean we discredit the db entirely does it? Its also like how the scan Naruto X Hunter posted says Uchiha have enormous reserves but separate db's have Itachi and young Obito both with 2.5 in stamina. Granted Itachi had illness but compare 13 year old Obito (2nd db) with 12 year old Gaara's stamina in p1 (4) and its clear despite being an Uchiha, Obito didn't have large reserves pre senju implants but i'm not going to use that to discredit that NxH scan completely.

Also as per Karin, what makes her have low reserves? I think i read somewhere on this site that because Karin was going to get old from refueling Tsunade that meant she wasn't using chakra but vitality. That is the only tech Karin does 98% of the time in the entire manga iirc.. so how is it she has low reserves if she doesn't use chakra to heal?
 
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