Ending the Itach vs Minato debate

Itachi Minato · Jan 4, 2012

Zato said:
You can go ahead if you want. I'm just tired of people overrating Minato(Well Itachi too). Speed isn't everything. Don't get me wrong though, Minato is very skilled but lets be honest. His Speed is really his main features. From what we have seen, hes not a very "strong" fighter and he really relies heavily on his FTG tech A LOT.

ahh but that may change as far as im concerned right now from wat we know itachi would win but minato must have more techs u dont become hokage just cos of one tech

Ajaygowda32 · Jan 4, 2012

Blaze Release said:
Come on, just read at least the first 2 senario's. It took me long to do it

i appreciate this thread and post u covered most of points add another thing too itachis genjutsu is strongest genjutsu next to shishu ...and u can break it unless u r uchiha ..soo its next to impossible for minato to over come this even if he was able to do by that time itachi can seal him :shrug:

Ajaygowda32 · Jan 4, 2012

BloodSeed said:
maybe you should read the manga from the start..a legend was told.... it was said there was a one brave shinobi that seal the 9 tail demon fox. that is the start of the story of naruto.. and that shinobi from the itachi fanboy would lose to a genjtsu in seconds lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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and this shinobi had been one-shot by a genjutsu in second ;rofl;

thats not great minato is pathetic

:no_ignore:

so do minato fans

listen Madara & 1st controlled 9 tails like pet and all minato can do is seal it with loosing his life thats not such heroic what u say

now tobi and sasuke can do same thing where as for naruto it took 17 years to reach this lvl and still sucks to transform to 9 tail form soo both father and son sucks my ass love pervy sage Jiraiya FTW

Itachi Namikaze · Jan 4, 2012

I think that we can go ahead and end this with just mine and Blaze release's arguments. Everyone else stop posting please, as you are getting off topic and no one has made any argument as to either side for a while.

fastrthnwind · Jan 4, 2012

UnrealSoul said:
Let me ask you this
How could he doge amatertsu while looking at itachis toes.
dont call me a fanboy for being logical.
You cant doge what you cant see and Amatertsu is fast when activated.

I don't call people fanboys.

Anyways, if he is close up on him, then he won't have time to use amaterasu.

If he is far away, then he could toss an array of kunai. Itachi could counter, but it would just spread the kunai around the battlefield even more. He could then use FTG to get in closer or perhaps use a summon to temporarily stall for time while minato throws even more kunai at him, littering the ground with his kunai and making it easier for him to attack.

TrollingSage · Jan 4, 2012

Without SageMode which minato deosnt have, He cant beat uchihas like shisui or itachi.
Having said that, there are flaws in your scenarios:
Minato doesnt use kunais to kill in a 1vs1 situation. It is to attack and evade close to the opponent or far away. Itachi cant deflects ftg kunais as they are not met for him. Even if he does, they will be close to him.

The only scenario minato wins is if he is aware of itachis tech in short range but itachi is unaware of v2 ftg. He throws the kunai, itachi evade and minato spams v2 rasengan and Itachi is unable to dodge even with sharingan.
Itachi getting in gen jutsu first is arguable, so if he cant, this is the only scenario with a bit of luck minato can win.
Scenario 2: Minato comes in with summons, so itachi is goes susano. Exchange blows and itachi pass out of exhaustion

Minato fanboys, i luv u guys but this is not happeningxd

Gouryuuka · Jan 4, 2012

If Minato were able to manage to place a FTG Kunai or seal somewhere, all Itachi would do is have to look for it and Amaterasu the spots. That would either smack Minato while he is using Hiraishin or take out his only way of putting up a good fight with Itachi. Rasengan would not be able to pierce or damage Susanoo either, so even if he could catch up to Itachi the offense would not be anything close to an A/Tsuchikage combo.

If this thread doesnt shut up Minato fans who wont accept defeat, then we can easily see that we have children amongst us on this Base. Good job Blaze Release

HokageKid · Jan 4, 2012

Fine lets put it like the, they both arrive at the battlefield, the second the battle starts, Minato's lightning fast speed lets him move behind Itachi before he can make a move and he slits his throat, what then?

HokageKid · Jan 4, 2012

People Say Minato can't pierce susano'o like Itachi can just sit in that thing all day, but it causes him extreme pain and depletes his chakra badly, He can not keep it up for as long as minato can dodge his attacks, so his only choice would be to release it or run out of chakra and be forced to release it.

People say Itachi can Immediately use genjutsu, but he can't use it as fast as Minato can move, which means minato can strike before genjutsu is set, which leaves Itachi one option, susano'o which then give Minato the chance to spread Kunai around the battlefield, and when Itachi releasing susano'o Minato can merely jump between each kunai with FTG repeatedly waiting for a opening to strike and sooner or later Itachi is either going to be dealt a fatal blow or run out of chakra from keeping his susano'o up or exhausting his sharingan

HokageKid · Jan 4, 2012

Jiraya is my man said:
unfortunatley by this time amerterasu is burning an unsuspecting minato who is looking at itachis feat minato

Minato could simply keep himself moving, Amaterasu won't catch him all it'll dude if waste Itachi's Chakra and he'd probably realise this and rather save Amaterasu for a suprise attack

enditallsin · Jan 4, 2012

I think your foolish as **** to think that this shit will end it,i can't even believe you actually took time out your life to right all that crap...-_- but hey what ever helps you sleep at night.

pdaworld · Jan 5, 2012

So basically what your getting at is because Itachi has genjutsu Minato has no way of beating him because nobody can escape it or fight it because the uchica are the ultimate clan and nobody can beat them beside a 13 year old prodigy wiping out the entire clan. Of course you have to factor in that Minato has never have to deal with anybody who has ever had the sharingan.

Nobody can figure out how to Itachi him because not even a fool like Gai who learned how to fight sharingan user just by looking at their feet can't beat Itachi who taijutus is way better than itachi and I'm probably just guessing Minato use more normal taijutus and a kunai in his fights to kill then most ninja's.

Or that he can just use Amaeratsu to burn him because it moves so fast it had trouble catching Sasuke who is slower than the 3rd raikage who is slower than Minato but that is so fast that Gaara could block it with his sand that lee can out round with his 3rd gate open when he was a genin.

Its a shame minato is so stupid slow with out FTG and can't sense where a enemy is with out even physical seeing them.

poor poor minato

ZeroBeloved · Jan 5, 2012

i have some quick questions that i dont know the answer to>>>

1. can tskynomi be used to control summonings... proof please. i know regular sharingan can, manda, fox demon.
2. can itachi genjutsu two different people at the same time. e.g minato and gambantu.
3.what is the range itachi was close range everytime he used genjutsu

Inner Eye · Jan 5, 2012

ZeroBeloved said:
i have some quick questions that i dont know the answer to>>>

1. can tskynomi be used to control summonings... proof please. i know regular sharingan can, manda, fox demon.
2. can itachi genjutsu two different people at the same time. e.g minato and gambantu.
3.what is the range itachi was close range everytime he used genjutsu

Sasuke controlled Orochimaru's snake summoning with normal Sharingan. Itachi caught several people at once with genjustsu coming from his fingers. Itachi used clones and crows for genjutsu, so potentially his range is unlimited. That Tobi and Madara to reflect genjutsu off the moon would back that notion.

ZeroBeloved · Jan 5, 2012

Inner Eye said:
Sasuke controlled Orochimaru's snake summoning with normal Sharingan. Itachi caught several people at once with genjustsu coming from his fingers. Itachi used clones and crows for genjutsu, so potentially his range is unlimited. That Tobi and Madara to reflect genjutsu off the moon would back that notion.

1. i know regular sharingan can, taliking about tsukonomi.
2. several people at once. where did u get that from? need manga proof, page doesnt need to be shown, but scenario at least.
3. know about moon eye plan, takling about itachi, off point

Blaze Release · Jan 5, 2012

ZeroBeloved said:
1. i know regular sharingan can, taliking about tsukonomi.
2. several people at once. where did u get that from? need manga proof, page doesnt need to be shown, but scenario at least.
3. know about moon eye plan, takling about itachi, off point

You realise that you are going off topic, but to answer question 2.
Kakashi told kurenai and asume not took into his eyes due to tsukuyomi or else they are dead.

Similarly he told chiyo, sakura and naruto the same thing and thats why they tried to counter this by using gai's strategy

IntheEndAllWillDIE · Jan 5, 2012

Dude This is awesome. lol Great facts comes to show you that Itachi is all that he is set out to be

great work!

Blaze Release · Jan 5, 2012

Btw no flaming. Ive never reported anybody but i wouldnt hesitate

c3D4 · Jan 5, 2012

Just one question can u catch someone in genjutsu if u cant see him?

MinatoTheYellowFlash · Jan 5, 2012

Blaze Release said:
What i will like to say first of all is that im going to explain 3 scenarios.
The first one being genjutsu rendering ftg useless thus minato is vulnerable to real life attacks.

In all these instances, its bloodlust, meaning both characters can use their strongest attacks to finish of the match and from what we have seen from itachi's he isnt afraid to use the ms from the get of

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After all what we have seen from both, they like to end their matches pretty quickly.

Scenario 1, ftg useless under genjutsu;
From what we know both characters a close range fighters as seen in all their fights. They arent long range fighters like gaara, diedora, etc.....
Now in all of itachi's fights he has used genjutsu from the start. He has demonstrated 3 forms of simple genjutsu.

The first one being a paralyses genjutsu he used on oro;

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Oro who has a 5/5 and a genius was caught in a paralyses genjutsu. When he was about to dispell it he got his hand cut. Itachi shouldve amaterasu'ed the bastard or cut of his head instead of his hand. As you can see genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.

Madara has demonstrated a similar paraylses genjutsu which again render the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks;

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Kurenai arugable konoha's best genjutsu user, tried a genjutsu on itachi and itachu countered it and put her in a state where she had to play the defensive;

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Even though itachi countered the genjutsu, since kurenai is the one who utilised it she already knew that she was in a genjutsu and dispelled it. Even after she dispelled it in time she was vulnerable to a real life attack;

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In the link above as i said kurenai was vulnerable to real life attack. She did break the genjutsu in time since she created it and she knew she was in one, but the most important this is that she even though she blocked itachi's kick, it showed us that not even her was able to dispel it in time and evade that kick at all. Now if this was bloodlust itachi he couldve amaterasu'd her instead tried to kick her in the face

The next genjutsu itachi has displayed is a genjutsu that is so real that, the user doesnt even know that he is in one as demonstrated with deidora. In the genjutsu everything in the real world was exactly the same, including the setting. This is what fooled deidora.

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Deidora was fooled from the start because the genjutsu was so real. As you also saw he nearly blew himself up in the real world. Again genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.

The third genjutsu itachi has shown us is when he can burst into crows at will. He has demonstrated to be able to do this in real life but also in a genjutsu.

Genjutsu crow;

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After their genjutsu duel, the real life battle started and even then itachi could still burst into crows in real life at will;

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As i said both fighters are short range/mid range fighters and ill show you links to demonstrate this. Ive already shown you two links of itachi being a short range fighter and this was him vs oro and him vs deidora. Notice the distance between him and his opponent, then notice the distance between minato and his opponents.

More images of itachi being a short range fighter;

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Now ill show links of minato being a short range fighter. Its actually obvious because in all his fights, either in the war or against A or tobi, he has used ftg to in close in order to use a kunai or ransegan. Either way ill show you links;

Notice the space gap between him and tobi;

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Similarly the space gap between him and A and notice the time he spams ftg kunai's

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From what weve have seen both are short/mid range fighters. In all of itachi's encounters he has used genjutsu from the start. What im trying to say is that, tack tobi/A out of the picture and include itachi instead. The chances are minato would be in a genjutsu from the start even before he can spam ftg kunai.

Once in a genjutsu as i said he is vulnerable to attacks. In order for him to use ftg he has to dispell the genjutsu that same second or else in that second it takes him to try and get out of a paralyses genjutsu or a genjutsu that seems so real that, he doesnt know that he is in one, itachi can use any technique he wants in real life to end the fight.

Ill give you two scenario's of other genjuitsu's itachi has demonstrated that copied the real life so much that it fooled his opponents. They didnt even know that they were in a genjutsu;

Genjustu was so real naruto thought it was real life;

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In the link below itachi saying wont/cannot use the ms on naruto, due to him being a 30% clone or because he obviously doenst want to physical hurt/capture naruto. This link proves that if itachi really wanted to hurt naruto and he wasnt a 30% clone, he couldve easily used the ms on him in real life because he is vulnerable to real life attacks, as ive proved earlier;

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Similar sasuke got caught in a genjutsu that seemed so real that it fooled him;

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In all the links above ive showed yout that both are close range fighters. Also showed you that itachi can make either paralysis his opponents and with this are vulnerable to real life attacks, but also he can make his genjutsu so real that his opponents wouldnt even know that they are in one. Minato would be caught in a genjutsu even before he spams his ftg, whilst in this genjutsu and he doesnt realise, he is vulnerable to real life attacks.

This can be amaterasu, tsukuyomi, cut minato's hand off the same way he did to oro or seal him with the totsuka sword in real life whilst he is still trying to figure out whether he is a genjutsu or not. Or him in the process of trying to dispell the genjutsu.

Talking about the totsuka sword. Poepl underestimate its speed. It caught both oro and nagato in the middle of a speech. Similar in the process of minato trying to dispel the genjutsu, it will also pierce him;

Similarly like oro didnt finish his sentence, minato wouldnt dispell the genjutsu

in tell to avoid to avoid the totsuka sword in real life;

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From the moment ct was destroyed, the sword had already peirced nagato. Similarly even before minato can try to either figure out that he is in a genjutsu or has realised and is trying to dispell it, the sword wouldve pierced him in real life even before he can dispell the genjutsu;

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Now that we know both are short/mid range fighter and we know that itachi uses genjutsu from the start. The question who do you think will be able to make the first move. The person who can catch you in a genjutsu with merely a finger, his body or his eyes or somebody who has to spam ftg tags around the area. Think its fair to say that minato would be in a genjutsu before he can most likely throw the first kunai or in the middle or spamming it.
The next question is once in a genjutsu that seems so real that he doesnt even know he is in one, how long will it take him before he realises and tried to dispel it.
If he is a paralysis genjutsu its even harder to dispel it because it paralysis the opponent. Even before he can dispell itachi couldve attacked and ended this fight, like the way he has done to ninja's above.

Alot of minato fans know this and say minato is either immune to genjutsu, he can fight long range because itachi's genjutsu ios short range. Ill tear that claim in peices, starting with minato is immune to genjutsu.

Alot of people say kage level ninja's are immune to genjutsu. Allow me to destroy not only that myth but the myth about genjutsu immunity totally.

Sarutobi a hokage getting put into genjutsu by the first hokage;

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Clearly he isnt immune to it.

Real life attacks;

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The 2nd mizukage, killed muu the 2nd tsuckage, the 2nd miukage is a genjutsu user and i have no doubt in my mind that this helped him defeat muu, both died though;

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There is also a myth around jinchircki;s being immune to genjutsu. What i will tell you know if you havent realised about naruto is that there is no such thing as invincible, immune, immortal, invisible and although minato isnt a jinchrucki i want to show you that if genjutsu works on a perfect jinchricki, its working on minato.

The 4th mizukage who was also said to be a perfect jinckrucki was controlled in a genjutsu by tobi;

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Bee was caught in a genjutsu by sasuke. It affected him as we see him on the floor but he later broke it and countered sasuke;

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Unlike sasuke, itachi actually successfully caught bee in it again;

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Now elite genjutsu user have been caught in genjutsu (kurenai, sasuke and itachi), kage level ninja's have been caught in genjutsu (oro was a hokage candidate, sarutobi, muu, itachi), geniuses have been caught in genjutsu ( sarutobi, itachi, oro), jinchrucki have been caught in genjutsu (yagura, bee), Sharigan users have been caught in genjutsu (kakashi, itachi sasuke). If in all these scenario's a these people have caught how can you possibly say minato is immune when not even the people ive named above are immune to it.

Read this thread if you want to know how dumb some minato fans are; (
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Another thing minato fans have said is that minato can stay away from itachi around (70 yards) and throw ftg kunai. They say that because they believe this way minato will not be caught in genjutsu because they believe itachi's genjutsu is short range. Not only are they being ignorant because itachi has displayed long range genjutsu but also in the manga AO says that itachi can produce long range genjutsu. Ill show you images of itachi using long range genjutsu, but also the link of Ao claims.

What people fail to realise is that before itachi met with naruto and sasuke during their pursit of him the real itachi was already at the uchiha hideout waiting for sasuke. The itachi that faced naruto and sasuke were kage bunshins, what people fail to realise is that kage bunshins can use the original techniques as naruto;s clones has showed us several times.

The itachi that put naruto in a genjutsu was a kage bunshin;

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Its this same kage bunshin that met put sasuke in a genjutsu then told him to come to the hideout;

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In the link below, sasuke finally reaches the hidout, where the real itachi was there waiting for him;

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Ao and shukaku talking;

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What minato fans either dont get or refuse to believe is that, once in a genjutsu (illusion), minato has to dispel it, before he can actually come back to real life and spam ftg tags.

In the first scenario if comes down to who would make the first move.
Itachi who genjutsu comes to him easy or minato who can spam ftg tags?. Personally i believe itachi.

The second senario would be me assuming minato has full knowledge of itachi's techniques therefore he doesnt look into his eyes when he fights and instead his feet

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Therefore he avoids eye contact, what they fail to get is that itachi doesnt even need eye contact as ive said above and demonstrated this with manga links.

There are many things wrond with this stragety. Firstly itachi doesnt need eye contact but also it leaves the opponent vulnerable to amaterasu as the link below would explain;

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How would minato know that he is about to get amateru'ed, if he cannot see above itachi's chin, as this link proves;

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Now if minato is looking at itachi's eyes he would no doubt be able to evade amaterasu, but if he cannot see it he cannot evade it. You cannot evade something you cannot see.

A was able to see sasuke's eyes and evade it;

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If minato is looking at his feet he cannot evade it as ive said, in order to evade it you have to be able to see it. As ive demonstrated minato either has to face the fact that he has look into itachi's eyes and fight, therefore tsukuyomi is on the card. If he decides to use gai's counter, its useless because itachi can still use genjutsu but also, he would be able to use amaterasu.

So how would minato fight this one.

Now what minato fans forget is that minato doesnt have infinite ftg kunai's he would run out of kunai's to through depending on how many he has. Minato fans say he would stand 70 yards and spam kunai, what they forget is that even if itachi's doenst know of ftg, if somebody throws a kunai at you you would obviously counter it. What i would also say is that if itachi can counter the kunai's even before it gets half way between him and minato, he is out of range of the ftg kunai's.

Do i believe itachi can counter all those kunai's?, off course. He is arguably the best kunai/shuriken thrower in the series.

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Minato fans say he would avoid close range due to genjutsu and spam ftg from long range. Well itachi's genjutsu are long range, but also those ftg kunai's wouldnt reach him because as ive showed you he would counter all of them even before it reaches him.

Now if does try close range, he would be an easier target for genjutsu but again his ftg tags would be countered.

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In long range its a pointless fight for minato, In short range he has a chance but also pointless because, ftg kunai's would be countered but also genjutsu is on the cards.

Whilst itachi is countering minato's kunai's he has shown to be so fast with handseals that he can counter every kunai and create a clone

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If minato was to rasengan itachi its highly possible that he will disperse into a flock of frows and tsukuyomi;

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Scenario 2 summary. In close range itachi has the advantage as ive described in scenario 1. In scenario 2 were minato has knowledge of itachi's techs and avoid close range and chooses long range as minat fans say, he is still as a disadvantage because at long range ftg kunai's would be countered even easier, he can still be put under genjutsu. If he tries gai's counter to the sharigan, he is vulnerable to amaterasu and if he chooses to ignore gai's counter and fight whilst looking at itachi, he can evade amaterasu but all of itachi;s other techniques/genjutsu will affect him regardless.

The final scenario is that both have full knowledge of each others techniques.
How would he fight, becaue in senario 1 its close range he is at a disadvantage as its shwoed you. In long range he is also at a disadvantage as ive showed you even if he has info on itachi.

Now if itachi can counter all of those ftg tags and isnt in range of him, minato doesnt have an ftg tag close to itachi to teleport to him and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite ftg kunai. Meaning once all those kunai's have been countered and itachi is out of range of the ftg seals, does it come down to a true fight, since minato wouldnt be given the time to try and regain his ftg kunai in order to spam it again.

Once he has finished with his kunai's and the tag still isnt in range of itachi, he has to fight using his base speed. To all the minato fans out there he didnt get his nickname, yellow flash due to his base speed but rather ftg

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Now what people seem to forget is that his base speed in high speed movement. Shunshin no jutsu as ive been said several times. Majority of ninja's who have high speed movement use this technique. I'll decode the difference betwee minato base speed, ftg and A's raiton armour.

Now A also uses shunshin (body flciker), but his body flicker isnt as fast as base minato. Its still fast as zetsu said. This is base A vs base minato.
Base A is noted to be very fast as Zetsu said;

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Still not fast enough against minato's base speed even if both use the shunshin no jutsu.

A in v1 raiton is the same speed as base minato, because he combines his shunshin no jutsu with raiton, whilst in minato's case its just shunshin but minato's shunshin as ive said is faster therefore the combination of A is shunsin and raiton v1 makes it on par with it.
As madara said, the lightning release body flicker;

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In v1 A and minato's base speed are the same. In v2 his speed is faster than minato. He has heard of A and has acknwloedged his speed;

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Thats why in the next page he decided to spam ftg, because A went v2 straight away and minato's base speed isnt as on par with v2, whilst ftg is faster than v2.

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Its because of ftg that allowed him to evade it;

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Basically what im trying to say is that;
Minato's shunshin (base speed)> A (base speed)
Minato's base speed = A raiton v1
A raiton v2 > minato's base speed
Ftg > A v2 raiton

Now that we have already established that in the 3 rd senario if itachi counters all the ftg kunai's and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite amount, he would have to fight using his base speed, especially if his ftg kunai's are out of itachi's range. Neither will he have the time to go on his kees and try to recover some of his ftg kunai's to use again. Therefore whilst he can use his base speed for offence, he can use ftg for defence because he can teleport back to where those kunai's are, but then again genjutsu is available to itachi to use if minato's teleports back to where the kunais are. That of course on how which stragety he plans on using against itachi. Looking at his feet and being amaterasu'ed or looking at his eyes and the possibility of tsukuyomi?.

Anyway now that we have seen that minato's base speed = A v1 raiton, although its still fast i can see itachi living with him.

Sasuke was able to keep up with A in v1 raiton, but also wound him.
This shows sasuke's speed (4.5/5) and reflexes ability

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Sasuke's reflexes and speed is great but not compared to itachi's. Although able to evade be's assault, he still got wounded;

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Now there is a reason why itachi has a 5/5 for speed in the data book. His reflexes and speed is greater than sasuke's.
Able to keep up with km naruto;

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Evaded both him and bee's attack;

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Evaded the same attack sasuke did, but in his case he wasnt injured at all;

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Now, im not saying itachi base = minato's base. What im saying is that he himself is no slow turtule. He has demonstrated many speed feats in the manga and deserves kishi rating of a 5/5 for speed. His speed and reflexes are faster than sasuke's.

Now bee was able to counter ftg in time in the sense that he had a knife at minato's belly.

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Now im not saying base itachi speed is ftg speed, but in this image bee wasnt able to counter the same way he did to minato;

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If itachi can get out of reach of those ftg kunai's, afterall if those kunai's do not reach the target minato also doesnt meaning that minato has to use his base speed as his main offence and ftg as his defence because at least he can teleport back to where his ftg markings are, itachi has a great chance to win this, because even if he does teleport back to where the tags are, itachi's genjutsu is long range, he still has ways to attack minato whilst minato doesnt. Not to forget he either has to chose to look at itachi's feet when he fights therefoer amarasu is on the card, If he doesnt and looks in his eyes tsukuyomis is on the card. If itachi can counter all those ftg tags and leave enough space between himself and those tags, im sure he can deal with minato's base speed not to forget he is at the advantage due to minato either not looking into his eyes or looking into his eyes. He still has long and short range attacks. In the form of defence, he can create a clone, that if gets hit he disperse. He still has susano if needed.

Minato fans are clearly biting more than they can chew, calling me out. successfully champion scenario 1. Doubt anybody would get past it LOGICALLY let alone 2 and even 3. You minato fans are clearly biting more than you can chew, running before you can walk.

This isnt a vs thread. Its just for my convenience in future debates.
If you plan on debating feel free but if it isnt worthy of a responce ill ignore it

Who cares they are both dead & yes Itachi is still dead

Ending the Itach vs Minato debate

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