ems sasuke and itachi vs orochimaru and kabuto with oro's dna,DSM and edo tensei

[HNIC]

I was talking about when Itachi was about to use Tsukiyomi. She was not escaping it without closing her eyes. She would've died as Kakashi commented. And yes, that was my point. Being good at genjutsu doesn't mean you can break away from them without any hindrances. Orochimaru is shown to be extremely weak against Sharingen genjutsu tsukiyomi. If he gets hit with this through the eye or Itachi's finger, he's done.

smh Orochimaru was never in tsukiyomi or anything, it was paraylzing genjutsu, finger genjutsu is something someone can break, as it's an illusion.

 

[HNIC]

What did she do against Tsukiyomi? She closed her eyes, which is the genjutsu I was pointing at. Your manga knowledge is pretty poor. Orochimaru is weak against sharingen's tsukiyomi or right eye genjutsu. Because no one can break free from it other than an Uchiha. Even Kakashi was trapped there getting implied for 72 hours.

Good that you are done with me. I am actually glad. The guy who doesn't know the difference between 'weak in genjutsu' and 'weak against genjutsu' isn't even worth debating with.

oh so now Tsukiyomi was the genjutsu you were pointing at lmao, so after broadly meantioning how he is "weak" agaisnt genjutsu, you refer to the ONE genjutsu that only another Uchiha can break, FAIL!!

 

[Turson]

Orochimaru is shown to be extremely weak against Sharingen genjutsu tsukiyomi. If he gets hit with this through the eye or Itachi's finger, he's done.

Was that even Tsukuyomi? Im sure that it was just some random 3-tomoe or finger Genjutsu. Either way, Orochimaru isnt the only exmple.

Shee - Genjutsu user, must have been quite skilled with it considering that hes Raikages bodyguard, yet Sasukes 3-tomoe (it wasnt even MS) Genjutsu owned him flawlessly, making unable to move for a couple of minutes.

 

[shelke]

smh Orochimaru was never in tsukiyomi or anything, it was paraylzing genjutsu, finger genjutsu is something someone can break, as it's an illusion.

Dude, Itachi's right eye Tsukiyomi genjutsu surpasses the original MS/EMS genjutsu and adds the effects of time and space manipulation. If he doesn't add this full effect, it's still tsukiyomi; a powerful MS genjutsu. Itachi can cast that with his finger as well. Sharingen genjutsus can be broken by sharingen users only, or one can use the following strategy as kakashi and chiyo suggested that you'll need another user to break it. Like Naruto's was broken by Chiyo and Sakura and A's Jounin;s genjutsu was dispelled by another one when he is also a great genjutsu user.

 

[HNIC]

Why would either brother give chase in any form of Susano'o? What will Orochimaru achieve by simply moving hundreds of metres away? That's foolish, people haven't been seen to casually run around or blitz opponents with this defence up. To be honest, the OP didn't specify the location or the like, so I think it's completely reasonable to suggest that everyone would remain relatively close together in an enclosed space (like a cave). If both sides have knowledge on eachother, why would the brothers separate when they know it'd take their combined efforts to escape something like Mugen Onsa (which it did, canonically)? What will the Hydra do if Sasuke initially lights it up with Amaterasu? That brief period in which it's in pain would be more than enough time for the Totsuka Blade to come out. And as I said, an IC Kabuto is going to use Mugen Onsa or Hakugeki early in the fight; in my second post I already acknowledged that team Kabuto is likely to be the victor if such jutsu are successful.

why would they separate, because one is a hot-head who's all about attacking, especially anyone who is snake related(as shown agasint Kabuto) He would chase after Orochiamru's movements and we know this. Mention that Orochi can leave and go anyway was my reply to you stating how Orochimaru woudlnt have a way to avoid Kabuto's attacks against the bro's. The end of your post basically became a situation that both bros focus on Oro while Kabuto has an opening to use sound genjutsucorrect??

 

[shelke]

Was that even Tsukuyomi? I thought that it was just some random 3-tomoe or finger Genjutsu. Either way, Orochimaru isnt the only exmple.

Shee - Genjutsu user, must have been quite skilled with it considering that hes Raikages bodyguard, yet Sasukes 3-tomoe (it wasnt even MS) Genjutsu owned him flawlessly, making unable to move for a couple of minutes.

Tsukiyomi is the normal Ms/EMS genjutsu, itachi surpasses it with his space time manipulation. Normal tsukiyomi doesn't have that.

Exactly, Shee is a great genjutsu user yet he couldn't move through the whole battle actually, and still couldn't move properly even after the other jounin brought him to his sense. No, Sasuke used MS genjutsu at that point. I am pretty sure.

 

[HNIC]

Dude, Itachi's right eye Tsukiyomi genjutsu surpasses the original MS/EMS genjutsu and adds the effects of time and space manipulation. If he doesn't add this full effect, it's still tsukiyomi; a powerful MS genjutsu. Itachi can cast that with his finger as well. Sharingen genjutsus can be broken by sharingen users only, or one can use the following strategy as kakashi and chiyo suggested that you'll need another user to break it. Like Naruto's was broken by Chiyo and Sakura and A's Jounin;s genjutsu was dispelled by another one when he is also a great genjutsu user.

OR one can simply release it as long as it's not Tsukiyomi, which is the only actual sharingan genjutsu that requires the opponent to have sharingan too in order to break it. This is why Orochimaru was going yo release it himself before Itachi stopped him from doing so. Chiyo suggested that the best way to fight a sharingan user is to have back up, but thats not the only way to break their "simpler genjutsu"

If this was the case, everyone would be considered weak against genjutsu who doesnt have sharinga.

 

[Bogard]

Kabuto almost soloed them. Adding Orochimaru and it's a stomp even without Edo tensei

 

[shelke]

oh so now Tsukiyomi was the genjutsu you were pointing at lmao, so after broadly meantioning how he is "weak" agaisnt genjutsu, you refer to the ONE genjutsu that only another Uchiha can break, FAIL!!

I love your thick-headed, funny responses. Can orochimaru himself break out of it? Is he suddenly now two people? Which part of it are you not getting? If he gets hit with Itachi's full tsukiyomi, he's dead, if he gets hit with the normal Tsukiyomi, he's still dead, so you need another person to break the jutsu.

Also, only the sharingen users can break out of the sharingen genjutsu Tsukiyomi with its space time manipulation, and the normal tsukiyomi. Anyone without the sharingen would die or would get trapped like Kakashi was even though he has a sharingen. To escape the sharingen genjutsu Kakashi and Chiyo both said that there is no escape other than the other ninja coming to your rescue who aviods the eyes or the genjutsu.

 

[Turson]

No, Sasuke used MS genjutsu at that point. I am pretty sure.

Im not sure. After Shee collapsed we could see that Sasuke had activated only 3-tomoe Sharingan, although its possible that he deactivated MS after right after he used Genjutsu.

As for Itachis illusion that was used on Oro, it wasnt Tsukuyomi. ->

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[OnPoint]

why would they separate, because one is a hot-head who's all about attacking, especially anyone who is snake related(as shown agasint Kabuto) He would chase after Orochiamru's movements and we know this. Mention that Orochi can leave and go anyway was my reply to you stating how Orochimaru woudlnt have a way to avoid Kabuto's attacks against the bro's. The end of your post basically became a situation that both bros focus on Oro while Kabuto has an opening to use sound genjutsucorrect??

This is not a 1 vs 1. This is a 2 vs 2. If what you said held any weight, then Sasuke would've recklessly charged at Kabuto; Itachi is there so he'll be under the guidance of his brother. Stop looking at this as if it's two separate battles. There are certain things which come into play when two shinobi link up, and such things (like teamwork, leadership etc) become all the more apparent when these two shinobi are well known to eachother.

No. The end of my post was saying that Kabuto seems to use Tayuya's Genjutsu near the beginning of the match whereas Orochimaru is likely to use Eight Branches when his arsenal has been exhausted; there won't be a situation where Yamata is out and Kabuto is yet to use Mugen Onsa. Team Orochimaru would've likely already won the fight before that point.

 

[shelke]

OR one can simply release it as long as it's not Tsukiyomi, which is the only actual sharingan genjutsu that requires the opponent to have sharingan too in order to break it. This is why Orochimaru was going yo release it himself before Itachi stopped him from doing so. Chiyo suggested that the best way to fight a sharingan user is to have back up, but thats not the only way to break their "simpler genjutsu"

If this was the case, everyone would be considered weak against genjutsu who doesnt have sharinga.

Release it? Show me a page which proves that any non-uchiha has gotten away from tsukiyomi, as this is the right eye genjutsu on all MS and EMS eyes?

 

[shelke]

Im not sure. After Shee collapsed we could see that Sasuke had activated only 3-tomoe Sharingan, although its possible that he deactivated MS after right after he used Genjutsu.

As for Itachis illusion that was used on Oro, it wasnt Tsukuyomi. ->

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It was a shringen genjutsu man. If he used it with the right eye with MS, it was tsukiyomi just without the space time manipulation, as only Itachi has shown to add that effect. His right eye genjutsu surpasses the original genjutsu. Even if it wasn't an MS technique it was still a sharingen genjutsu.

 

[HNIC]

This is not a 1 vs 1. This is a 2 vs 2. If what you said held any weight, then Sasuke would've recklessly charged at Kabuto; Itachi is there so he'll be under the guidance of his brother. Stop looking at this as if it's two separate battles. There are certain things which come into play when two shinobi link up, and such things (like teamwork, leadership etc) become all the more apparent when these two shinobi are well known to eachother.

No. The end of my post was saying that Kabuto seems to use Tayuya's Genjutsu near the beginning of the match whereas Orochimaru is likely to use Eight Branches when his arsenal has been exhausted; there won't be a situation where Yamata is out and Kabuto is yet to use Mugen Onsa. Team Orochimaru would've likely already won the fight before that point.

actually im looking at this as 2vs2 but also considering hwo the characters themselves react/behave. Itachi had to constantly tame Sasuke from killing someone who reminded him of Orochimaru, at that point he would have lost it and charged at Orochiamru and Orochiaru would have feed into knowing this. This isnt plot-no-talk, with Itachi baby-sitting while both Kabuto and Orochiamru sit there, this is the characters figthing themselves. When considering leadfership, personailty, etc the edge is givento team snake.

 

[HNIC]

It was a shringen genjutsu man. If he used it with the right eye with MS, it was tsukiyomi just without the space time manipulation, as only Itachi has shown to add that effect. His right eye genjutsu surpasses the original genjutsu. Even if it wasn't an MS technique it was still a sharingen genjutsu.

please show me the link where it is said that ALL Itachi genjutsu are tsukiyomi or modified versions that only shargain users can break. Also, you fail to aknowledge the difference between paralzing genjutsu

 

[Turson]

It was a shringen genjutsu man.

Not all Sharingan Genjutsu = Tsukuyomi. Even Itachi doesnt classify his own techniques like that, when he was stalling Naruto & co. at the beginning of partII, he clearly said to Naruto that he cant use Tsukuyomi for the time being, yet he used Sharingan Genjutsu on Kakashis clone later.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Kabuto(no edo) alone>Itachi and Sasuke. Adding Orochimaru is just overkill.

 

[shelke]

please show me the link where it is said that ALL Itachi genjutsu are tsukiyomi or modified versions that only shargain users can break. Also, you fail to aknowledge the difference between paralzing genjutsu

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- This means normal tsukiyomi doesn't have any space time manipulations.

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- Only the true masters of Sharingen are capable of casting powerful KG techniques.

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- Only a sharingen user can break his tsukiyomi.

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- Orochimaru getting trapped by Itachi's right eye genjutsu. Though not a tsukiyomi yet, this eye would later develop into MS/EMS moon technique. @Turson You were right, I was confused because he used his right eye to cast and was sure he had used Tsukiyomi when he hadn't bought MS on.

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and this

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All gengutsus are useless before sharingen as Itachi put it, yet Orochimaru is severelly weak against a regular sharingen genjutsu, let alone a freaking tsukiyomi. And Itachi's would kill a user:

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.

Naruto couldn't break out of Itachi's regular eye genjutsu even by stopping his chakra flow:

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. And it took two people to break Itachi's genjutsu:

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Yet Itachi was only using 30% of his chakra here:

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Please tell me you are joking, when Orochimaru couldn't even break out of a simple sharingen genjutsu. Just imagine with a tsukiyomi would do. lol

 

[shelke]

Not all Sharingan Genjutsu = Tsukuyomi. Even Itachi doesnt classify his own techniques like that, when he was stalling Naruto & co. at the beginning of partII, he clearly said to Naruto that he cant use Tsukuyomi for the time being, yet he used Sharingan Genjutsu on Kakashis clone later.

If MS and EMS's right eye is used to cast the genjutsu, then it's definitely tsukiyomi. I was wrong on that Orochimaru front, but that just makes him more weak against sharingen genjutsu as Itachi didn't even bring out his MS and he lost.

 

[HNIC]

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- This means normal tsukiyomi doesn't have any space time manipulations.

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- Only the true masters of Sharingen are capable of casting powerful KG techniques.

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- Only a sharingen user can break his tsukiyomi.

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- Orochimaru getting trapped by Itachi's right eye genjutsu. Though not a tsukiyomi yet, this eye would later develop into MS/EMS moon technique. @Turson You were right, I was confused because he used his right eye to cast and was sure he had used Tsukiyomi when he hadn't bought MS on.

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and this

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All gengutsus are useless before sharingen as Itachi put it, yet Orochimaru is severelly weak against a regular sharingen genjutsu, let alone a freaking tsukiyomi. And Itachi's would kill a user:

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.

Naruto couldn't break out of Itachi's regular eye genjutsu even by stopping his chakra flow:

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. And it took two people to break Itachi's genjutsu:

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Yet Itachi was only using 30% of his chakra here:

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Please tell me you are joking, when Orochimaru couldn't even break out of a simple sharingen genjutsu. Just imagine with a tsukiyomi would do. lol

lmfao none of those links worked!!!!HAHAHA