EMS Madara and Tobirama on same level

[Troyg39]

At first I was on your side but after thinking about it I have to disagree. Not because I don't personally think that Tobirama could somehow stand a chance against EMS Madara (if he doesn't have Kyubi ofcorse) but because there is lack of evidence.

Izuna and Madara were said to be equal back in the day, but remember Izuna died before Madara got EMS, so Izuna was being compared to MS Madara not EMS Madara. Tobirama beating Izuna is in no way evidence of what he can do against EMS Madara.

Now if we are talking MS Madara then yea Tobirama could probably take him down or atleast give a very good fight for reasons I stated above. But as far as EMS Madara is concerned, I don't think they were on the same level. Just like Hashi vs Madara was a victory for Hashi every time, I think EMS would get a victory every time against Tobirama

MS Izuna=MS Madara<Tobirama<Hashirama

MS Izuna<Tobirama<EMS Madara<Hashirama

But it's still not impossible. After all, for the longest we had to accept that Madara and all his Susanoo and kyubi wielding glory got bested by Hashirama, who at one point only had one feat: Mokuton. It never made sense how Madara could be bested by Hashi until a few chapters ago so who knows what Tobirama is really capable of as well

 

[Dragon1]

Nah it is rather interesting how you can put almost completely featless Tobirama on equal footing with EMS Madara. All we know about Tobirama so far is his Suiton technique along with Hiraishin which we haven't seen yet in action. All we know is that Madara as only one being known in NV history could oppose Hashirama. By very basic logic this present that the one and true fact. EMS Madara> Tobirama. Thank you.

I'm not saying Tobirama is stronger than EMS Madara, but everyone here seems to think Madara is winning with no difficulty whatsoever. Let's just say Tobirama is one of the greatest Suiton users, space/time user and he surely had Edo's... Also he defeated Izuna who was said to be equal to Madara. Now you may say Izuna was compared to MS Madara, but i doubt EMS Madara became ten times stronger after unlocking EMS..

 

[KCMNaruto]

you are wrong, I am sure it could be completly different:

Correct order between Senjuu and Uchiha brothers should go like that

IMO: Sage Hashirama>=EMS Madara with Kyuubi>Base Hashirama>=EMS Madara(vote)>Hokage Tobirama=EMS Madara(624 chapter)>Tobirama(against MS Izuna)>MS Madara=MS Izuna

If we could go by power levels(not chakra), then it would be like that:

Sage Hashirama - 100
EMS Madara+Kyuubi - 90
Base Hashirama - 60
EMS Madara(vote) - 55
Hokage Tobirama - 40
EMS Madara(624 chapter) - 40
Tobirama(against Izuna) - 20
MS Madara/MS Izuna - 15

This is obviously my point of view at order of their powers, it is debatable and please don't ask from I got these numbers. Sage Hashirama is simply max and I compare all of them to it. Power gaps can be bigger or smaller but it is as I see it.

 

[SebastionM]

you are wrong, I am sure it could be completly different:

Correct order between Senjuu and Uchiha brothers should go like that

IMO: Sage Hashirama>=EMS Madara with Kyuubi>Base Hashirama>=EMS Madara(vote)>Hokage Tobirama=EMS Madara(624 chapter)>Tobirama(against MS Izuna)>MS Madara=MS Izuna

If we could go by power levels(not chakra), then it would be like that:

Sage Hashirama - 100
EMS Madara+Kyuubi - 90
Base Hashirama - 60
EMS Madara(vote) - 55
Hokage Tobirama - 40
EMS Madara(624 chapter) - 40
Tobirama(against Izuna) - 20
MS Madara/MS Izuna - 15

This is obviously my point of view at order of their powers, it is debatable and please don't ask from I got these numbers. Sage Hashirama is simply max and I compare all of them to it. Power gaps can be bigger or smaller but it is as I see it.

I don't really think your numbers are right. (not that they were accurate to begin with) I don't think a 40 for Hokage Tobirama is a very realistic number. I'd say a 50 or so, depending. We haven't seen very much.

 

[Amaterasuice]

Tobirama>=Ms Izuna or Madara
Ems Madara> Tobirama
Edo madara>>>>>Tobirama. XD

 

[KingHashirama]

EMS Madara had the Kyuubi as a contract... you fail, or you don't read the manga. You clearly said Tobirama is on par with "EMS" Madara, and "EMS" Madara had the Kyuubi. Obviously he doesn't have it anymore, he was long dead and it got sealed into Naruto. No, it wasn't only for Hashirama, he could summon Kurama at any time; proof.

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You made the mistake of comparing Tobirama to EMS Madara, who actually survived. His prime (alive) state, clearly indicates his having Kurama as a summon. Funny though, Tobirama has hardly any jutsu, and you're comparing him to a man only Hashirama could beat at the time. You're clearly struck by these flashing lights and badass attitude, so you want to jump on the bandwagon. By feats, EMS Madara rips him apart.

Oh yeah, how's he getting around PS?

Here dude do you not understand this..... Gamabunta is not Naruto's power.. they have a contract.. but Naruto summons Gamabunta for HELP. Kurama is Naruto's power because they share 1 body. Kurama + EMS Madara... not EMS Madara includes Kurama.


Summon doesn't = your power.. Your not understanding this. Your bandwagoning and saying Kurama's power is Madara's power.. when in realty the battle between at VOTE was EMS Madara + Kurama vs Hashirama. Your making it into a mano e mano. Which is quite BS. Unless you wanna say Naruto vs Gaara was a 1 vs 1 also...

 

[KingHashirama]

The kyuubi is a person now? Edo tensei and controlling a bijuu are two completely different things dont get me wrong. If madara didnt have a contract then i wouldn't argue that its his power. You act like anyone can control a bijuu and fight haha. Imagine naruto only has half of him and he can still transform.

Kyuubi is a LIVING THING. To make the power of a Bijuu your own you must be a jinchuriki who shares the same body.. You can't say its your own power when its not coming from your body..

 

[Zato]

Hashirama said out of his own mouth that he and Madara was the two strongest in the world. Everyone just knew Hashirama was the stronger of the two. Oonoki stated that Hashirama and Madara were the two strongest in the world... Kabuto stated that Hashirama and Madara were the two strongest in the world. Tobirama doesn't match with him. He matched with Izuna I guess. Too bad that we didn't get to see Izuna's powers...

 

[Draphsin]

I disagree, EMS madara would beat tobi

And if he used kurama it would be a stomp, Kurama is part of EMS madara's current arsenal but tobirama could be referring to madara without it.

If that's the case and you dont count kurama then I do agree i guess, EMS madara would still be better though

 

[Sea Of Thy Soul]

How can they be equal in power when Ems Madara can easily outperform him by summoning the Kyuubi?

 

[Lightbringer]

Joke?? Ems Madara's strongest technique = Perfect Susano'o.... Which can be countered by a FTG.
In chakra levels Tobirama as a top tier Senju is superior.

So how the hell would Madara take his ass to school?

Problem with FTG is that it requires a seal to teleport to

he's not going to be able to throw a shuriken into the susanoo and then teleport to it

A shuriken won't go through a susanoo, let alone his PS....that is if Tobirama can throw something that high

and it showed in the Madara/Hashirama battle that they had almost equal chakra reserves

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Here dude do you not understand this..... Gamabunta is not Naruto's power.. they have a contract.. but Naruto summons Gamabunta for HELP. Kurama is Naruto's power because they share 1 body. Kurama + EMS Madara... not EMS Madara includes Kurama.


Summon doesn't = your power.. Your not understanding this. Your bandwagoning and saying Kurama's power is Madara's power.. when in realty the battle between at VOTE was EMS Madara + Kurama vs Hashirama. Your making it into a mano e mano. Which is quite BS. Unless you wanna say Naruto vs Gaara was a 1 vs 1 also...

Yeah, but EMS Madara is able to summon Kurama to aid him, what's your point? Shouldn't we count it? Should we take away Jiraiya's summons from a fight?

Still never explained, how does he bypass PS? I await.

 

[SebastionM]

Problem with FTG is that it requires a seal to teleport to

he's not going to be able to throw a shuriken into the susanoo and then teleport to it

A shuriken won't go through a susanoo, let alone his PS....that is if Tobirama can throw something that high

and it showed in the Madara/Hashirama battle that they had almost equal chakra reserves

Show where it is said that to do FTG you HAVE to use a seal...

Minato used seals, but it is never stated that Tobirama does. Actually does quite the opposite considering he was going to teleport the group to a battlefield, in a different country, where he has most likely never been.

 

[Transcendence]

Absolutely not.

It has been shown that Hashirama and Madara are on a completely different level than anyone else in the Manga. Absolutely no comparison. Tobirama is more Minato/Itachi level.

The only people who will surpass Madara and Hashirama are the obvious Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[Lightbringer]

Show where it is said that to do FTG you HAVE to use a seal...

Minato used seals, but it is never stated that Tobirama does. Actually does quite the opposite considering he was going to teleport the group to a battlefield, in a different country, where he has most likely never been.

so you know exactly how Tobirama's FTG works even though we have not seen it? ok Kishi

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[The Madara Uchiha]

You're saying Madara was at the same level BEFORE, everything's changed. Madara has awoken the Rinnegan which puts him much above his opponents level, don't underestimate the power of Madara Uchiha.

 

[elsepa]

I think so, we haven't seen much about him . Yet people underrated him a lot cuz they want Minato and crew to be stronger...

 

[Stark]

Pitiful, only Hashirama could stand up to Madara..

 

[SebastionM]

so you know exactly how Tobirama's FTG works even though we have not seen it? ok Kishi

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Okay, you tell me how he was going to get them to that battlefield! You think he happened to post a tag on that EXACT battlefield 100 or so years ago?! Common sense goes a long way.

 

[Sasuke the Boss]

3 tomeo sasuke can beat Tobirama. Fck off...