[VS] Doflamingo vs Rayliegh
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HashiraMadara
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You can't exactly call this challenging
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A joking around Mingo was able to pull this off
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That only happened because Jozu got distracted. Before that, while on guard, he was able to keep Kuzan busy.
HashiraMadara
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Mingo got Distracted and still too shat on this attack
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chopstickchakra
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This doesn't disprove that Jozu can't push an Admiral, it proves Doffy is superior to Jozu, which is what I've said the whole time.
In what manner of sense stalling Kuzan is any different from stalling Akainu? Jozu is one of few characters in the entire series to be able to make an admiral bleed, which is something Marco never accomplished. I have an idea of which of these attacks is stronger, it's obviously the one used on Kuzan as he was frozen to bone, totally unlike Doflamingo. That aside, Kuzan and fought a death match with Jozu when he had no reason nor any intention of putting an end to Doflamingo's life. Hence, he was sparred.
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Lawlermelon
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I would love to. Either come to Neptune and west 12th street in Coney island brooklyn, give me your address or shut the **** up!
Dęvîa Puęrî
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He's had a hard on me even on his alt. Not surprised if he's an alt created just for this.
Uzumaki Macho
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HashiraMadara
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Yes that was my point :| , why is Doffy vs Jozu even an argument, that was my initial appalled question
HashiraMadara
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How can one survive being frozen to the bone :|. You have no proof that the attack on Jozu was > attack on Mingo. Making someone on a war bleed is less significant(lot of commotion) than a 1 on 1 in a far away place. I am sure jozu would never act tough and arrogant against Kuzan in a place out side war where it's just them like Mingo did.
The problem with comparing Kuzan vs Jozu and Kuzan vs Doffy is that jozu had not only been in in a short battle with kuzan before being frozen but also that he let his guard down by not being diamond anymore. WB was in a critical position and so Jozu got distracted allowing his most powerful ability, his diamond defense, to fall thus allowing him to be frozen.
But in Doffys case, his ability was not let down. He had strings ready to kill smoker and thus we can safely assume that the strings he uses to fly are also still around him. His defenses were up, Jozus were not. He didnt break out of the ice by pure physical ability or haki i dont think but because of his strings. The reason WB broke out of the ice I htink is also because of his quake ability, hence why aokiji said "Guess you cant freeze a quake"
This makes these two cases not very comparable. Portrayal also goes out the window because these are entirely different scenarios. One were kuzan is giving a warning, the other where kuzan is fighting a war.
The only real comparison we have between the two is when doffy controls jozu. But I'm not even gonna go into this as to why it isn't a great indication of anything but I will instead say this: In terms or portrayal, Jozu is better than Mihawk. Jozu managed to completely stop mihawks "strongest slash." Now does anyone here actually believe that Mihawk is weaker than doffy? Well now you know the problem with these portrayal arguments, there is always some way around them showing the other side to be correct as well.
In any case Jozu and doffy aren't likely to be far apart in strength. What happened to Jozu against aokiji (minus the being distracted part) would also likely happened to doffy. I don;t see him taking any admiral or pushing them above high diff. Rayleigh, I see pushing them all to extreme diff.
But in Doffys case, his ability was not let down. He had strings ready to kill smoker and thus we can safely assume that the strings he uses to fly are also still around him. His defenses were up, Jozus were not. He didnt break out of the ice by pure physical ability or haki i dont think but because of his strings. The reason WB broke out of the ice I htink is also because of his quake ability, hence why aokiji said "Guess you cant freeze a quake"
This makes these two cases not very comparable. Portrayal also goes out the window because these are entirely different scenarios. One were kuzan is giving a warning, the other where kuzan is fighting a war.
The only real comparison we have between the two is when doffy controls jozu. But I'm not even gonna go into this as to why it isn't a great indication of anything but I will instead say this: In terms or portrayal, Jozu is better than Mihawk. Jozu managed to completely stop mihawks "strongest slash." Now does anyone here actually believe that Mihawk is weaker than doffy? Well now you know the problem with these portrayal arguments, there is always some way around them showing the other side to be correct as well.
In any case Jozu and doffy aren't likely to be far apart in strength. What happened to Jozu against aokiji (minus the being distracted part) would also likely happened to doffy. I don;t see him taking any admiral or pushing them above high diff. Rayleigh, I see pushing them all to extreme diff.
HashiraMadara
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Pure speculation
This is inaccurate as well. Jozu didn't tank Mihawk's slashed. He deflected it. Still it did some heavy fire works after that. Secondly, Mihawk used a "Testing" slash. He was testing Whitebeard, with a meh no power swing. so that was a "testing slash from the WSS" not "WSS's strongest slash". Yet it took Jozu's strongest form to deflect it. (and a scream of uhhhhooohhhh if I may add)
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Mingo can hack sure do something, a Shichibukai and a 400 000 000 Bounty plus some town were needed to defeat him. Ishho and Sengoku were used to transport him.
It is speculation. But it isn't completely unfounded. Doffy's defenses were up, Jozus were not. Aokiji even said "Guess you can't freeze a quake" this implies a DF borke the freeze, not anything else, this is easily applied to Doffy's case. If you can't argue the point, just say speculation, that makes it untrue right?
Lol, he didnt deflect it. You even posted the manag page and still said he deflected it. That was anime only. In manga he stopped it in its tracks. 'testing slash" Pure speculation... See what I did there. Anyways, Jozu straight up stopped a slash meant to harm whitebeard, mihawk was "measuring the distance" and didnt even try??? what good would that do mihawk, it wouldnt tell him anything. We have seen mihawk slash like a handful of times. he isnt zoro, he doesnt super swing like zoro does. "strongest form" where did you get that from. that is his DF power we dont know if he even has any other forms. Of course he isnt gonna block it with his body, thats like saying luffy is gonna beat doffy without using his devil fruit lol. His scream is his personality, he wasnt even blocking it with he screamed.
That argument doesnt mean much. We have no idea what bounty an admiral can or cant take on. And the shichibukai strengths vary widely so needing a shichibukai doesnt mean much either. In fact it kinda downplays doffy's strength. Luffy and Law beat doffy, but had to run from Fujitora, an admiral. Yes they were injured but as you can clearly see, Fuji would have beat Doffy if he didnt want to make a point to the World Government. Fuji would have also beat the entire alliance, which is why they ran.
Doffy was guarded that way to prevent him from being rescued, not to keep him from escaping. Its the only prison transport ship we have seen. Ace's could have been the same.
chopstickchakra
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Doffy v Jozu was never really the issue it was Doffy v Aokiji VS Jozu v Aokiji. Jozu was brought up as a comparison to how a commonly viewed top tier character fared against an Admiral and how Doffy had a better showing against the same Admiral. Jozu was brought up to show Doffy is comparable to characters most consider top tier.
HashiraMadara
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Well I agree that Doffy > Jozu. But I think Kuzan was just brought to keep Smoker in the series other wise what is another plot that twist that could save him? none!