[VS] Doflamingo vs Rayliegh

[OG sama]

Yup, that's why after Kuma defeated him, Luffy said "I'm gonna invent a new Gear," and not "I need to train. I'll do so by walking back to the Archipelago on my hands."

????

Sure he needed to train on an island then, but now? He doesn't have time for that, he's got to progress the way he's always progressed by just fighting stronger and stronger people and developing the skills he has.

He's not getting Kuma'd again either.

Also Luffy didn't need to train when he developed Gears 2 and 3, its the same thing now as it was then.

Was that a proper response? I'm kinda confused with what you said because I can't remember what Luffy said after losing to Kuma.

 

[Punk Hazard]

????

Sure he needed to train on an island then, but now? He doesn't have time for that, he's got to progress the way he's always progressed by just fighting stronger and stronger people and developing the skills he has.

He's not getting Kuma'd again either.

Also Luffy didn't need to train when he developed Gears 2 and 3, its the same thing now as it was then.

Was that a proper response? I'm kinda confused with what you said because I can't remember what Luffy said after losing to Kuma.

The way Luffy always has gotten stronger was through training. That's how the crew always get stronger. You know that not every second of the Strawhat adventure is shown off screen. Those weeks and days and months between islands that we don't see very well function as the time periods that the monster trio at least are training. Luffy has more than enough time to train himself and develop new techniques, since it's not like they spend every waking second in battle and it's not like every waking second is shown on screen.

Stop saying he didn't train for Gears 2 and 3. You have no idea whether or not he did or didn't train for those abilities. Considering that he stated that he knew he had to get stronger since Aokiji, it's definitely most likely he started developing the Gears after their confrontation with Kuzan and before their confrontation with CP9.

 

[OG sama]

The way Luffy always has gotten stronger was through training. That's how the crew always get stronger. You know that not every second of the Strawhat adventure is shown off screen. Those weeks and days and months between islands that we don't see very well function as the time periods that the monster trio at least are training. Luffy has more than enough time to train himself and develop new techniques, since it's not like they spend every waking second in battle and it's not like every waking second is shown on screen.

Stop saying he didn't train for Gears 2 and 3. You have no idea whether or not he did or didn't train for those abilities. Considering that he stated that he knew he had to get stronger since Aokiji, it's definitely most likely he started developing the Gears after their confrontation with Kuzan and before their confrontation with CP9.

You have a great point, and just brought up something I totally forgot, he can train on his ship any time and probably has been training since Dressrosa. Didn't it take them some weeks to get to Zou? Could have been training with the four or so weeks it took them to get there.

Fine by me, he probably has something new right now. Long as he doesn't need a yearly TS I guess its fine.

 

[chopstickchakra]

The way Luffy always has gotten stronger was through training. That's how the crew always get stronger. You know that not every second of the Strawhat adventure is shown off screen. Those weeks and days and months between islands that we don't see very well function as the time periods that the monster trio at least are training. Luffy has more than enough time to train himself and develop new techniques, since it's not like they spend every waking second in battle and it's not like every waking second is shown on screen.

Stop saying he didn't train for Gears 2 and 3. You have no idea whether or not he did or didn't train for those abilities. Considering that he stated that he knew he had to get stronger since Aokiji, it's definitely most likely he started developing the Gears after their confrontation with Kuzan and before their confrontation with CP9.

Didn't Luffy make G2 during his fight with Blueno after watching CP9 members? Not disagreeing with the overall point but G2 he didn't really train for, he trained it after creating it, iirc of course.

 

[-Akuma-]

Why can he not give me legit reason ? He has the feats hype durability speed haki strength to replicate what these guys did and then some he's the only one of 2 to break out of kuzan ice the other being white beard with no visible damage
His hype with him being captured being escorted to the prison by a former fleet admiral a new admiral and a vice admiral who is respected on garps level also shows how strong he is

Person to show that luffy needs help in new world and luffy did not legit defeat him on his own etc.. Your saying he doesn't have the strength to be a first mate of yonko or even commander and fight on thier level that's bull there is zero evidence to even suggest that he cant

No hype puts DD on the top commanders level, espeically the likes of Jozu and Marco, Kuzan wasn't serious against DD and sent him a warning shot and DD himself was probably almost frozen to the bone. All this hype you gave him doesn't justify what you're saying.

 

[chopstickchakra]

No hype puts DD on the top commanders level, espeically the likes of Jozu and Marco, Kuzan wasn't serious against DD and sent him a warning shot and DD himself was probably almost frozen to the bone. All this hype you gave him doesn't justify what you're saying.

Almost frozen to the bone yet he broke out of it on his own? Right. Jozu? Yeah it's not like he held him in place while he sat on his back and had a conversation with Crocodile while Jozu couldn't do anything, right? Didn't Aokiji actually keep Jozu frozen at MF? Marco is above the other commanders because of his fruit, he even heals from Haki hits so the only way to beat him is nullifying his DF so why bother bringing him into this when it's primarily if Doffy's > Jozu and Vista.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Almost frozen to the bone yet he broke out of it on his own? Right. Jozu? Yeah it's not like he held him in place while he sat on his back and had a conversation with Crocodile while Jozu couldn't do anything, right? Didn't Aokiji actually keep Jozu frozen at MF? Marco is above the other commanders because of his fruit, he even heals from Haki hits so the only way to beat him is nullifying his DF so why bother bringing him into this when it's primarily if Doffy's > Jozu and Vista.

akoji froze jozu and tipped him over breaking his arm before later thawing himself out. akoji just left doffy there and did nothing to him, and were still unsure on who release the ice or not. I'm not saying that jozu is superior in anyway but we can't compare doffy to someone on aokiji's level. Jozu just didn't impress me so much after what Doffy and Croco did to him.

 

[chopstickchakra]

akoji froze jozu and tipped him over breaking his arm before later thawing himself out. akoji just left doffy there and did nothing to him, and were still unsure on who release the ice or not. I'm not saying that jozu is superior in anyway but we can't compare doffy to someone on aokiji's level. Jozu just didn't impress me so much after what Doffy and Croco did to him.

Doffy broke out of the ice you could see it flying away from his body that's caused by a force from inside the iced area plus he turned around right as it broke away that should be more than enough proof Doffy escaped Aokiji's ice.

Jozu thawed, that's the natural way for the ice to remove. Also Aokiji froze Jozu while he was aware of him and attacking him, he froze Doffy from behind as he was attacking Smoker and Doffy still was able to break out within seconds.

Weren't we comparing Doffy to Jozu's level by comparison of their handling of their interaction with Aokiji? Doffy is closer to Aokiji then Jozu is, is the point I was discussing.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

No hype puts DD on the top commanders level, espeically the likes of Jozu and Marco, Kuzan wasn't serious against DD and sent him a warning shot and DD himself was probably almost frozen to the bone. All this hype you gave him doesn't justify what you're saying.

He is literally the only person other then whitebeard (one of the strongest in the series) to break out of kuzan ice why r u treating it like it acts as a negative against doffy if anything it shows that doffy would not just get one shotted by akoji

 

[Lawlermelon]

Reyleigh mid diff.

Edit: you idiots go off of topic too much. Wtf does aoikijis ice have to do with anything? He has nothing to do with this fight. Does Reyleigh have ice that we don't know about? NO so STFU. Reyleigh would slice that ***** up and then his wife would cook doflamingo for dinner for Luffy to eat.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Reyleigh mid diff.

Edit: you idiots go off of topic too much. Wtf does aoikijis ice have to do with anything? He has nothing to do with this fight. Does Reyleigh have ice that we don't know about? NO so STFU. Reyleigh would slice that ***** up and then his wife would cook doflamingo for dinner for Luffy to eat.

Aokiji wasn't brought up as a means to gauge DD against Rayleigh, people were saying DD is weaker than some of WB's commanders then Aokiji was brought up to compare how DD handled his attack and how a WB commander handled the same attack. Most people in this thread agree Rayleigh would beat Doffy what most don't agree on is if DD is above some of the WB Commanders. Calm down and don't get your panties in an uproar.

 

[A v i]

Doflamingo instantly gets frozen by an admiral and escapes the attack, when it wasn't even aimed to kill him and it makes him look stronger than a guy who battled the same admiral for a decent amount of time to a stalemate. Talk about cherry picking. :yeah:

That doesn't make any sense. Luffy won that fight at EL. Luffy beat Lucci he was > him at EL. Luffy didn't beat Doffy at DR Luffy, Law and a bunch of other factors beat Doffy at DR. Luffy wasn't > Doffy at DR. Your post is irrelevant to the comment.

It makes sense if you interpret my post a bit differently. This is what you initially said;

"There's been little time between his victory over Doffy and now, and he's had no real combat to boost his skills since then so why would he be above Doffy just days a week or so at best after their fight?"

There were only a few hours b/w Water 7 and Enies Lobby. And, Luffy haven't had a life and death match b/w W7 and WL. Yet, EL Luffy was leap years above Water 7 Luffy. Hence, your point is moot.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Doflamingo instantly gets frozen by an admiral and escapes the attack, when it wasn't even aimed to kill him and it makes him look stronger than a guy who battled the same admiral for a decent amount of time to a stalemate. Talk about cherry picking. :yeah:





It makes sense if you interpret my post a bit differently. This is what you initially said;



There were only a few hours b/w Water 7 and Enies Lobby. And, Luffy haven't had a life and death match b/w W7 and WL. Yet, EL Luffy was leap years above Water 7 Luffy. Hence, your point is moot.

Was he though? What standards are you using to come to the conclusion that Luffy throughout W7 was weaker than Luffy at EL? G2 put him above W7 Luffy but he created that during combat, it wasn't a result of him getting stronger after W7. Luffy does get stronger through fighting but he doesn't just magically get stronger after each victory and defeat. He made G2, then made it stronger through practice and application. Btw congrats to you for breaking out your thesaurus. Unless Luffy trained his G4 on the trip to Zou there's no reason or evidence to suggest he miraculously surpassed DD. By the end of this arc there most likely will be though.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Reyleigh mid diff.

Edit: you idiots go off of topic too much. Wtf does aoikijis ice have to do with anything? He has nothing to do with this fight. Does Reyleigh have ice that we don't know about? NO so STFU. Reyleigh would slice that ***** up and then his wife would cook doflamingo for dinner for Luffy to eat.

Because a lot of the top tiers lack feats and on-screen battles, One Piece debates inherently rely on powescaling and portrayal very heavily. That's why OP VS matches often branch off into including other characters. Get with the game.

 

[A v i]

Was he though? What standards are you using to come to the conclusion that Luffy throughout W7 was weaker than Luffy at EL? G2 put him above W7 Luffy but he created that during combat, it wasn't a result of him getting stronger after W7. Luffy does get stronger through fighting but he doesn't just magically get stronger after each victory and defeat. He made G2, then made it stronger through practice and application. Btw congrats to you for breaking out your thesaurus. Unless Luffy trained his G4 on the trip to Zou there's no reason or evidence to suggest he miraculously surpassed DD. By the end of this arc there most likely will be though.

It's downright delusional to think otherwise. The manga clearly depicted that Luffy and Zoro were much stronger at EL, than they were at W7. Blueno made a note of it and Zoro explicitly stated it. There is zero evidence to support what you're saying about Luffy creating gears during combat. Witnessing Soru led him to develop gears which isn't same as him inventing gears on spot. Luffy didn't improve solely because of gears, even his base was beyond what it was at W7. And, Improving his strength via gears doesn't change the fact that he had gotten stronger.

I never said he magically gets stronger. Be it a new technique or him improving his raw skills or him unlocking his latent ability; Regardless of whatever the means he may use to gain strength, it's completely possible for Luffy to be much stronger than he was a few seconds ago. You're free to call it magic if that's how you see it. He just had a life and death match with Doflamingo. So, he must have gotten substantially stronger than he was at the beginning of their battle. Therefore, the probability of him surpassing Joker is just as high as the vice versa.

 

[Bogard]

Jozu actually has the feat of stalemating an admiral to a standstil(until distraction) something Doflamingo doesn't possess. His armament is great enough to bypass an admiral's defense while Doflamingo's armament gets bypassed by a stationary cutting sword
The ice instances aren't the same firstly because they weren't placed in similar situations, secondly because we have no way to tell the difference in those level of attacks, thirdly because on the contrary of having placed Kuzan as having his hands full on Jozu, same Kuzan was portrayed as casually calming a bloodlusted Doffy while hands in his pockets. Doflamingo couldn't control Jozu even after sneak-attacking him with a hax move Jozu barely had time to register. His string attacks range from building to town level destructive damage at best. Even his town level awakening attacks could hardly damage through Luffy's hardening defense+durability. No way he can scrath someone as durable as Jozu with it and Jozu is miles ahead of him physically. The moment Doflamingo will throw his strings at him, Jozu will use those strings to pull Doffy at him and finish him and close combat he gets dominated. Doflamingo's endurance will allow him to drag on this fight, with his awakening helping to increase his range game and defensive maneuver, but at the end of the day, Jozu will crush him

 

[ToshiZO]

Doflamingo has had two direct portrayal moments to compare with Jozu. And so far he's 2/2.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Doffy broke out of the ice you could see it flying away from his body that's caused by a force from inside the iced area plus he turned around right as it broke away that should be more than enough proof Doffy escaped Aokiji's ice.

Jozu thawed, that's the natural way for the ice to remove. Also Aokiji froze Jozu while he was aware of him and attacking him, he froze Doffy from behind as he was attacking Smoker and Doffy still was able to break out within seconds.

Weren't we comparing Doffy to Jozu's level by comparison of their handling of their interaction with Aokiji? Doffy is closer to Aokiji then Jozu is, is the point I was discussing.

Jozu was more or less off panel so we don't know how he got out of the ice. But I thought you were comparing those two to Aokiji which he is miles ahead of even pre-time skip. That was my fault, my bad.

 

[chopstickchakra]

It's downright delusional to think otherwise. The manga clearly depicted that Luffy and Zoro were much stronger at EL, than they were at W7. Blueno made a note of it and Zoro explicitly stated it. There is zero evidence to support what you're saying about Luffy creating gears during combat. Witnessing Soru led him to develop gears which isn't same as him inventing gears on spot. Luffy didn't improve solely because of gears, even his base was beyond what it was at W7. And, Improving his strength via gears doesn't change the fact that he had gotten stronger.

I never said he magically gets stronger. Be it a new technique or him improving his raw skills or him unlocking his latent ability; Regardless of whatever the means he may use to gain strength, it's completely possible for Luffy to be much stronger than he was a few seconds ago. You're free to call it magic if that's how you see it. He just had a life and death match with Doflamingo. So, he must have gotten substantially stronger than he was at the beginning of their battle. Therefore, the probability of him surpassing Joker is just as high as the vice versa.

What are you talking about? He didn't have it before his fight with Blueno, then during the fight he tries it for the first time. That's the definition of creating it in the fight. Then he had to train it to avoid the drawbacks. If it worked solely the way you're claiming then Luffy would have just had Gear 2 before he fought Lucci and all the drawbacks would have just disappeared after he beat him.

" He just had a life and death match with Doflamingo. So, he must have gotten substantially stronger than he was at the beginning of their battle."
That's some straight up Dragon Ball Zenkai shit and must? No it isn't must just because you think it's that way. Luffy gets stronger by training after nearly losing difficult fights like Lucci, like MF and like now. After Doffy Luffy knows he has to train his G4 and his haki more.

 

[A v i]

Marco is stronger than Doflamingo because he could partially fight an admiral to a stalemate. But, Jozu is somehow an exception from this logic. :yeah:

Are people this ignorant? Jozu had a life and death match with Aokiji and was frozen to the bone. Doflamingo, however, clearly wasn't frozen to bone. Aokiji had no intention of killing Mingo whatsoever.

What are you talking about? He didn't have it before his fight with Blueno, then during the fight he tries it for the first time. That's the definition of creating it in the fight. Then he had to train it to avoid the drawbacks. If it worked solely the way you're claiming then Luffy would have just had Gear 2 before he fought Lucci and all the drawbacks would have just disappeared after he beat him.

" He just had a life and death match with Doflamingo. So, he must have gotten substantially stronger than he was at the beginning of their battle."
That's some straight up Dragon Ball Zenkai shit and must? No it isn't must just because you think it's that way. Luffy gets stronger by training after nearly losing difficult fights like Lucci, like MF and like now. After Doffy Luffy knows he has to train his G4 and his haki more.

He had it before fighting Blueno, considering he came up with it before entering EL. Luffy as well as Zoro have shown to get stronger as they fight. They fight stronger foes -> Adopt themselves to match their opponents -> get stronger. They don't get stronger solely because of training. For example; Base Luffy couldn't hit Blueno at W7, the same dude in base trashed Blueno and partially kept up with Lucci at EL. They usually improve drastically after every single major fight they fought.