[Discussion] Do you consider all feminists bad??

[CrimsonReaper]

A feminazi is a feminist, you're all the same anyway, stop damage controlling.

he's not damage controlling you're just a plain idiot.

 

[BLAZE]

A feminazi is a feminist, you're all the same anyway, stop damage controlling.

All femnazi=Feminist[extreme ones]
All Feminist equalsFemnazi

or are you having hard time understanding this :lol

 

[ZK]

That doesn't even make any sense. Austen works on Irony. Her plots literally dictate that. She tackles very different issues; predominately marriage and societal pressures on women in that era. Are (some of) her characters well-written? Yes. Most of them can be considered as 'moving towards developing'. That would be a third form of characters. At least, try to pick out works that create some sort of analogy for games. Picking her makes little to no sense.

My point was, and is, that the work exists independently of the author. What does it matter who writes the work?
I don't understand why you think it's smart to compare games to literature. I understand from what you add below that you have a background in literature, but I think you're forcing a connection that does not exist.
You still insist that there exists some objective way to define a 'well-written' character. I do not believe this is true.

There are two types of stories: one, where Narrative drives the characters and the other where characters drive the narrative. For the former, characters do not need to be well-written. For example, everyone knows Charles Dickens' wrote Flat Caricatures. But, it's the plot and the narrative scheme that is the strength of his novels. His characters do not need to be well-written as his narrative scheme and choice are very different.

I have studied Critical thought and am a Literature major. So, you are talking to someone who knows the ins and outs of Literature. [/B]You can find countless examples in works concerning Emotions pulled through narrative, syuzhet and fabula history in narrative schemes through Russian formalism, Humanist philosophy that took root in the early part of the 20th century to extrapolate on authorial intentions versus the works' scrutiny in isolation, history of cinema in regards to narratives, long criticism on Satan (Paradise Lost) via countless critics: John Carey being my absolute favourite who touches the idea of 'Depth' in characters and what it encapsulates.

No. I'm talking to someone who has, obviously, read a lot of literature. I've never understood this superiority-complex. You believe that the more books you read the more 'correct' your tastes and opinions become? You think you're some kind of arbiter of taste, but, again, I honestly think it's a ludicrous notion.

You can even touch upon Aristotle and Plato if you desire. Albeit, that is a very different domain. Evolution of Modern Drama and the onset of a very different form of tragedy. Samuel Jonson in his general criticisms towards poetry, drama etc. Alexander Pope in his essay of man, as to which work carries itself through time. There are, in fact, countless models that combine cognition, emotions and narrative schemes to discuss characters. All you have to do is look around. Yes, so there are some merits to good-writing and well-written characters. No matter how much people deny it. And gamers and anime lovers seem to be the fools of this story.

Again with the superiority complex. I've never understodd why you people suddenly think you're hot shit just because you read 'The Republic' once and studied Socratic dialogue. It's all arbitrary.
Merits to good writing? You've mentioned works that you think are well-written, which is nice, but ultimately moot. You'll say the work of these authors are well-written. I may or may not agree with you. If I don't there is a good chance that you will accuse me of not recognizing good writing. It's vanilla versus chocolate. I cannot stress this enough.

It automatically becomes ones when poor and unrealistic representation are at its core and the subjects are female characters. Isn't this what feminism is - rectifying problems that concerns females? @Bold Why are you so curious then? You are more than welcome to believe whatever you want.

All stories are cliches more or less. It's their execution that truly matters. When a character literally starts embodying Cliches, then it creates a lot of problems for the plot, I'm afraid.

Well, they are a very vocal community with very poor tastes. I wouldn't be surprised if they started defending Tifa of all the characters. You haven't played them, but you are willing to bet that they do? I have played VII, VIII - I am currently playing IX - X, XII, XIII, and a bit of XIII-2. And I would challenge anyone to prove his nonsense that FF females are even remotely bearable, let alone examples of writing nirvana. Are they useful to the gameplay? Yes, more or less. Are they useful to the plot? **** no.

"Poor and unrealistic representations"
That's nice. Again, you keep throwing these sentences around. Something is 'problematic' or 'unrealistic.' You don't have any suggestions for change. You add nothing to the discussion. All you do is list very generalized things you think are problematic...
Oh, right, and you seem very convinced that your opinions are facts and that everyone else just has shit tastes.

Rectifying problems that concern females? Is that feminism to you? Sounds like a third-wave, revisionist definition with American roots. Very concerned about problems, but never very keen on trying to solve them.
It can be what feminism is. Like so many other politicized terms it's been used very differently by many different groups. Defining feminism is beyond the scope of this conversation.

Very poor tastes... here we go again. Honestly, this para makes little sense, so I'm dropping it.
Heh.
One thing, though: "I would challenge anyone to prove his nonsense that FF females are even remotely bearable," You can't be serious about anyone proving anything in a literary discussion, can you? I wouldn't put it past you, but I hope you're better then that.

Your first para makes little sense, so I am dropping it. I never claimed male characters do not fall into the spectrum. You are more than welcome to point that out. As for male characters, then VGs are generally poorly written with very few gems far and in-between when story driven games are concerned. But, female characters do seem to be on the short end of the stick more often than not, whether it's presentation or story telling. If you cannot see that, then it's your problem.

What the heck are you even talking about in the last para here?

The short end of what stick? Even if we accept that the examples you've provided are, truly, objectively bad writing then it stands that the male examples are, similarly, just bad writing. How, then, is this a feminist issue and not just a question of shitty writers in gaming overall?
My problem? You're the one with all the problems, mate.

Does Pacman fall into the domain of story heavy games? My arguments on writing are only for those games where story is the main selling point. Pacman is a platformer. A light-hearted one. It's like bringing Mario on the table whilst discussing symbolism in Silent Hill franchise. At least read carefully, for the love of god!

Games also serve very different functions than books. You wouldn't find characters like Pacman and Mario in novels, as the latter's main element is story-telling, the former's is gameplay.

I was mocking the way you overanalyze to find problems that you can complain about freely. And you might very well find a Mario-like character in a book. It's funny how, when you say books, you seem to include only the top-notch names and titles. There are Minotaur *** novels on Amazon. Don't ask me how I know that, but there are. Mario could very well be in one of them.

No, it really doesn't. You can believe it if you want to. Many people can like Fifty Shades of Grey. That doesn't make it good literature. Many people can like Eminem. That doesn't make him Beethoven. Liking and literary merits do not coincide. They never have and never will. Which is why - despite being a hardcore gamer myself through the course of fifteen years - I have never taken gamers and anime lovers seriously on this front. Because they have little to no idea about good story-telling.

Sure it makes it good writing. Again with the damn superiority complex. You're a snob, and the fact that you don't realize it makes it ten times worse. But you're right; Eminem isn't Beethoven. He's different. Were you going to make the point that Beethoven is objectively better than Eminem? In the words of Andy Dufresne; how can you be so obtuse?
You have this weird idea of an objective, top-down hierarchical structure that lists genres and works from good to bad. That you can study literature and be convinced of this makes me feel sad.

Gameplay is one element, story telling is another. You won't find me criticising Street Fighter for its story. Or Gran Turismo for not having one at all. There are some games where story is the selling point. There are others where it isn't. You won't find genres like platformers, simulation, TPS, FPS etc in novels. Even the thought is borderline stupid. You seem to be trapped in a bog where you cannot even tell apart the notion that gameplay heavy games exist, from story driven games. Games can always get away with the former, as gameplay plays an important part even where the latter doesn't exist.

Which would be your opinion. Am I supposed to take this seriously? Master Chief is a tough guy trope and that's it. He works well for his own domain. Halo is a gameplay heavy franchise. Story was never its selling point. So, yeah, please don't make me laugh that I don't agree with this absurd opinion. Your lack of knowledge on this front isn't my headache. No offense.

It's exactly my opinion. You're supposed to take it as my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe you could learn something from that.
He's a tough-guy trope, is he? Again with the generalizations. Chief shows remarkable emotional depth and vulnerability in Halo 3 and 4. The Halo franchise, by the way, is extremely story-driven. I'd expect a "hardcore gamer" like yourself to know this, but maybe I should've expected an ignorant generalization.

So, yeah, please don't make me laugh that I don't agree with this absurd... oh, am I stealing your line? Your lack of knowledge on this front simple isn't my headache. No offense.

Which are extremes, and that makes it a problem. There are countless shades between black and white. You seem like one of those typical gamers; full of hot air that games came under fire and have little to defend them with. Anita always draws such a rowdy crowd, so I am not surprised. Your points on breasts, breasts and more breasts are quite crass and highlight this problem even more. It really doesn't change the fact that women in VGs are objectified to disturbing degrees.

No, I really haven't, as highlighting the problems and accepting them are the first two steps towards change. Having more women in the industry would automatically bring diversity and create opposition for one-sided views. That alone is a major solution to most issues.

Oh, so I'm the one full of hot air am I, mister big-shot literary critic? If I didn't know better I'd say that you weren't self-aware. Rowdy crowd... if I'm the typical gamer you're the typical troll. You add nothing save lists of problems.
I'm talking about breasts, huh? I guess you never mentioned anything about Tifa being a 'walking pair of breasts' or the 'unrealistic representation' of characters in video games. I must've been imagining these things.

It's not a fact, though. It's a notion that you seem very intent on presenting as fact. Again, I can provide just as many examples of objectified males as you can females. It's a non-issue that you're trying desperately to stir up.

Having more women in the industry would automatically bring diversity and create opposition for one-sided views? You sound like one of those gender-quotas people that my professor warned me about. You're assuming women have different views on games and characters simply because they are women. You're reducing 50% of the world's population to being nothing more than their gender because you want to promote some misguided ideology of 'diversity' that has no place in a serious workspace. It's incredibly objectifying, to be honest.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Honestly disgusted with half of you. There's extremists in any debate and you guys are proving yourselves to be them.

Death threats? Wishing people to die? Filthy rats?

I respect what the movement has done in the past and accept that the sensitivity needs to be reeled back a bit now (so not a feminist myself) but jfc you guys makes me disgusted to be on this forum. F*cking anime forums man.

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[shelke]

My point was, and is, that the work exists independently of the author. What does it matter who writes the work?
I don't understand why you think it's smart to compare games to literature. I understand from what you add below that you have a background in literature, but I think you're forcing a connection that does not exist.
You still insist that there exists some objective way to define a 'well-written' character. I do not believe this is true.

Everything (presentation related that concerns tales) stems out of story telling. If a game's selling point is that, it should be scrutinized.

No. I'm talking to someone who has, obviously, read a lot of literature. I've never understood this superiority-complex. You believe that the more books you read the more 'correct' your tastes and opinions become? You think you're some kind of arbiter of taste, but, again, I honestly think it's a ludicrous notion.

You asked whether I knew about this or not and got a reply. I already told you, there are certain standards to good storytelling and characters and they certainly aren't made by me. Criticism has existed since the time of Aristotle and Plato. There is no superority complex in this. It shows a lack of argument, if anything.

Again with the superiority complex. I've never understood why you people suddenly think you're hot shit just because you read 'The Republic' once and studied Socratic dialogue. It's all arbitrary.
Merits to good writing? You've mentioned works that you think are well-written, which is nice, but ultimately moot. You'll say the work of these authors are well-written. I may or may not agree with you. If I don't there is a good chance that you will accuse me of not recognizing good writing. It's vanilla versus chocolate. I cannot stress this enough.

You shouldn't have delved into this, if that is all what you were going to say; superiority complex. Define moot. I would consider the opinions of well-read people far more valuable and trustworthy than simply calling it a moot argument. Believe it or not, writing is a lot scientific in approach than most people would assume. There has to be some structural integrity to everything - writing is no different.

If gamers and anime lovers were on the forefront, we would have trash 24/7.

"Poor and unrealistic representations"
That's nice. Again, you keep throwing these sentences around. Something is 'problematic' or 'unrealistic.' You don't have any suggestions for change. You add nothing to the discussion. All you do is list very generalized things you think are problematic...
Oh, right, and you seem very convinced that your opinions are facts and that everyone else just has shit tastes.

Look above.

Rectifying problems that concern females? Is that feminism to you? Sounds like a third-wave, revisionist definition with American roots. Very concerned about problems, but never very keen on trying to solve them.
It can be what feminism is. Like so many other politicized terms it's been used very differently by many different groups. Defining feminism is beyond the scope of this conversation.

Problems is an umbrella term that can cross many boundaries. But if you want to limit yourself superficially to it, then be my guest.

One thing, though: "I would challenge anyone to prove his nonsense that FF females are even remotely bearable," You can't be serious about anyone proving anything in a literary discussion, can you? I wouldn't put it past you, but I hope you're better then that.

Yes, it can be. Anyone can easily point out that so and so meets the merits of well-written or not. As I said, it really isn't that hard. And it certainly is very much within the reasonable bounds of such discussions.

The short end of what stick? Even if we accept that the examples you've provided are, truly, objectively bad writing then it stands that the male examples are, similarly, just bad writing. How, then, is this a feminist issue and not just a question of shitty writers in gaming overall?

I never said all male characters are well written. I actually pointed my finger at VGs as a whole. It is a feminist issue when women are reduced to sexual objects. This happens far more to women than men.

I was mocking the way you overanalyze to find problems that you can complain about freely. And you might very well find a Mario-like character in a book. It's funny how, when you say books, you seem to include only the top-notch names and titles. There are Minotaur *** novels on Amazon. Don't ask me how I know that, but there are. Mario could very well be in one of them.

Different genres purely for entertainment's sake? They do exist.

Sure it makes it good writing. Again with the damn superiority complex. You're a snob, and the fact that you don't realize it makes it ten times worse. But you're right; Eminem isn't Beethoven. He's different. Were you going to make the point that Beethoven is objectively better than Eminem? In the words of Andy Dufresne; how can you be so obtuse?

Yes, he is. This isn't even a debate. These are the people who laid foundations for music and artistic expression. Good music. I can't believe anyone in their right mind would even compare a dime-a-dozen rapper to a legend. They are not even in the same league. Jesus ... are you serious? For your sake, I really pray not.

It's exactly my opinion. You're supposed to take it as my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe you could learn something from that. He's a tough-guy trope, is he? Again with the generalizations. Chief shows remarkable emotional depth and vulnerability in Halo 3 and 4. The Halo franchise, by the way, is extremely story-driven. I'd expect a "hardcore gamer" like yourself to know this, but maybe I should've expected an ignorant generalization.

Whatever you say, man.

Oh, so I'm the one full of hot air am I, mister big shot literary critic? If I didn't know better I'd say that you weren't self-aware. Rowdy crowd... if I'm the typical gamer you're the typical troll. You add nothing save lists of problems.
I'm talking about breasts, huh? I guess you never mentioned anything about Tifa being a 'walking pair of breasts' or the 'unrealistic representation' of characters in video games. I must've been imagining these things.

It's not a fact, though. It's a notion that you seem very intent on presenting as fact. Again, I can provide just as many examples of objectified males as you can females. It's a non-issue that you're trying desperately to stir up.

Having more women in the industry would automatically bring diversity and create opposition for one-sided views? You sound like one of those gender-quotas people that my professor warned me about. You're assuming women have different views on games and characters simply because they are women. You're reducing 50% of the world's population to being nothing more than their gender because you want to promote some misguided ideology of 'diversity' that has no place in a serious workspace. It's incredibly objectifying, to be honest.

Well, this discussion was clearly fruitless. It's veering well off the thread topic. But anyways, opposition does create varying views. If not anything that would create a platform for women to rectify the problems they believe are dominating the game industry.

So, this was my final reply on this.

 

[Avani 👑]

That's not what you're aiming for, all 'you' do is come up with bs statistics like pay gap myth, storm into a male rights activists conference, act like crazy harpies and continually support laws that makes life harder for men and normal sane women.

Oh really? And since you presume you have a right to make a conclusive decision about what 'I' am looking for let me return the favour - you are simply a misogynist who just wants to hold on to privileged status and power and doesn't want the other 50% of the human population share the stage with you. And you have demonstrated it several times over in many threads on this topic.

It's people like you who inspire some of the women to act just much silly and stupid reactions and then you cry about crazy feminazi.

 

[Avani 👑]

Implied it, did I? Is there a chance you just looked for subtext so hard that you found it?



So we need more women in video games because only women can write 'good' female characters?
Do I need a Mongolian man with big ambitions to write Genghis Khan? What?
There is such a thing as imagination. Tolkien wasn't an Elf or a woman, but he wrote Arwen and Galadriel very well. Jane Austen wasn't a man, but I wouldn't call Mr. Darcy a flat character.
I could go on.

While I agree there have been male writer who depicted excellent female characters and vice versa, those two example are bad-

Tolkien is not known for great female characters - in fact he often gets mocked for the lack of female characters.. So much so that a small LoTR forum I was at, even male members joked Elves gave birth asexually and that explains why there were so many elves without a mother.. Arwen is there only to be an elven queen and she met a miserable lonely death in the end. She is acts unselfishly when in love and is ready to be a mortal in name of love but that's it.

Not that I don't love and enjoy LoTR but I cannot give it much credit for something it doesn't have. It has women but in traditional Roles. And the fact that you name Arwen and Galadriel you seem to be taken your clue from the movie not the book itself... If you have read the book- tell me what stood them out to you in these two characters?

As for Mr Darcy- yeah he became everything what the heroine wanted and an ideal suitor and the story ended with that. But gaming industry is not hiring such writers like Jane Austen.

It really isn't opinion? Says who? You want to provide some scientific research to support that stance? No? Then it's most definitely an opinion. Litterature isn't a science. It's not even a soft science. It's litterature. Its value is decided by people. I'd be willing to accept the 'expert argument,' but unless you have a doctorate or similar in literature or literary history...
Still, let's go with what you've written. Most characters are 'insufferably bad.' The works. Answer this, then:

This doesn't seem to be a 'feminist' problem. By your standards its a very general literary problem. Not that I believe your standards have any merits to them. If people like the characters of a book and believe they are good character... I'd say they're good characters. Tropes? Maybe, but that applies to characters of all genders. Shit, it applied to almost all plot-lines as well. You're seeing problems where there are none.

You are reacting to his post rather than replying him- the general problem is that there are just too many video games which are blatantly sexist or have similar over tones.

The noise over Lara croft was not because of her boobs- they were tolerated for a long time- Many fans ( even the ones who do not identify themselves as feminists or females) had reacted because in the new version at the time she was crying too much and there was a part where player has to save her from a rape ( I haven't played the game but I have read implied rape situation and that the idea is used again recently). The excuse of game makers was that they wanted player to have sympathy for her and save her... the damsel in distress..

I didn't reply yesterday but I checked some articles on the net over the issue to check out which games they were talking about and games with Male character moving while banging every female around, players, facilitating boob touching , winning *** cards, this kind of theme are common. But even when such demeaning and objectifying themes are not involved, depicting female character in titillating ways is pretty standard practice. It's not just the size of boobs but the way it's presented. The impractical costumes designed to bare rather than having any tactical advantage, gesture, pose camera angle - everything is used to satiate the male fantasy.

The number of female gamers has increased and the industry hasn't taken them in to account yet- yes some of them have listened or forced to listen but not till women started speaking up and registered their presence as a consumer. And many are yet to catch up. Rather than changing and stop being so sexist many game makers still prefer to keep such themes up- because for them males have better buying capacity and *** and sexist depiction suits their view. Over sexualization isn't good for the society as a whole- of course you may not agree with this point but i believe so and would support less of it in video games too.

I bet there's a ton of Final Fantasy fans out there who would love to tell you why you're wrong. I don't play Final Fantasy. I never have. I couldn't tell you if the females in that series pull the plot or not, but I'm willing to bet that they do.
Manga and anime stereotypes? What would those be? Big breasts? Slim waists? How many fat people do you see in anime/manga? How many people with pimples? It's not a representation of real life. It's not supposed to be.

One of the articles on sexism in fact lauded Final Fantasy for it's male character designs being as eye pleasing as female ones is considered les sexist. But then came Final Fantasy 4:

ince Rydia is so useful as a playable character, the player is given a strong incentive to go on several difficult side quests that serve no other purpose than to make her more powerful. The player therefore has something of a first-person investment in her, which is strengthened by her moving backstory. This backstory provides both a juxtaposition and an alternative to Cecil’s own. Both Cecil and Rydia are orphans who were raised to be masters of their respective powers, and both must make a choice regarding whom they will forgive and whom they will protect. Unlike Rosa, the adult Rydia does not need saving, and she is not interested in romantic love. It would seem that she is therefore not an object but rather a subject, a female hero who stands on equal footing with the male hero.

Unfortunately, there is the issue of her costuming. While the two primary male characters, Cecil and Kain, are allowed armor, Rydia is clothed in leggings, oversized arm warmers, a leotard, and high heels. Besides not being very practical for battle, this outfit is highly sexualized. As a result, fanworks from both Japan and America have cast the character as a porn star who is raped by not only Cecil and Kain but also by her summon monsters, a dubious honor that is not shared by Rosa.
This pornographic treatment is not merely a result of Rydia’s sexy costume (or of Rule 34), however. There is also an air of innocence and a whiff of child-in-a-woman’s-body about her that invite male protection and exploitation. While Cecil and Kain are depicted as undergoing emotional trails on the road to character development, Rydia has an almost complete lack of interiority. If the adult Rydia ever faces any doubt over her abilities or conflict over the fact that Cecil killed her entire family, for example, the player doesn’t hear about it. Rydia is magical and mystical and unknown; she is a blank slate in an appealing costume onto which the presumably male player can project his fantasies of exotic and mysterious femininity. Moreover, although Rydia’s magic is undeniably powerful, the game’s strict MP limitations ensure that she is never more than a support character in the vast majority of battles, an unfortunate caveat that also applies to Rosa.

Spoiler

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^ really? Do male characters look like coming from a strippers club that often?

The same person added this later on:

I received a comment elsewhere that my treatment of Rydia was unfair, since the character Fran (from Final Fantasy XII) sports a similarly racy outfit. This is a valid criticism, so I would like to respond to it here.

In Final Fantasy IV, men are definitely subjects, and women are definitely objects. I don’t believe this is the case in Final Fantasy XII, in which female characters get an equal (and perhaps even greater) number of lines of dialog. The female characters in FF XII have not only interiority but also goals and motivations that are not subordinate to those of the male characters, as is not the case in FF IV. Furthermore, FF XII does not limit playable characters to certain stereotypical roles based on their gender. One could make the argument that FF IV doesn’t either (take Edward, for example), but I think FF XII is still much less sexist in terms of gameplay. Finally, I believe that the male characters in FF XII wear clothing that is just as revealing and fetishistic as the clothing worn by the female characters, which is absolutely not the case in FF IV.

You should check out the long essay yourself sometime:

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Every single 'trope' and 'stereotype' you see in Anita's videos have male counterparts.

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She actually didn't present the issue that well. Her not being able to make a proper case doesn't meant she was wrong.

Walking pair of breasts? Like the walking hunks of muscle and grunts you see in so many video games?

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Yea- FYI those hunks are not really depicted to serve female fantasies- when they are drawn to serve female fantasy- male half starts screaming gay and gets uber uncomfortable in their turn..

Every single problem you can find with some female character I can find with a male character. Are some of them flat? Sure. Are some of them too good or too evil to be realistic? Sure. Since when was total realism a requirement. You're on a Naruto forum. You know how unrealistic these characters are? But I still think they're good characters.
No matter their six pack or cup size.

Yea it's not just six pack and cup size. You are extremely limited in your understanding with such depictions- or you are ignoring the other aspects in favour of saving the depictions you like. Average Male characters get layers of armour, the ones without armour are so muscled up that the idea is that their body itself is strong enough to not needing it. They have the power.

Female character- have trouble finding a proper bra to support their boobs even. And sometimes larger the boob, more the trouble finding even the bikini armour to support it properly.

The whole industry related with entertainment, but more specially the comic, anime and video games suffer such moments : The magazine decides to make a spider woman cover page- lo and behold they hire a porn artist to do so. She doesn't have a spidy suit- she has body paint! and has lifted her bottom up in the air in the strangest way possible- the post is strikingly similar to the artists another previous drawing where the woman had been exposing her vagina to the crowd doggy style! yay!

Why is this a problem? If you're looking for totally realistic characters you should go live life. Games have exaggerated elements, unrealistic elements. Sometimes they have absurd elements.
Moments of catharsis... is that what you are looking for when you play Pac Man? The collective works of Tolstoj hidden somewhere?

You forgot candy crush and temple run.

Again, you're looking too deeply into video games. Some games may seek to include deep elements in their games. I have been very touched by video games.
Others don't. Sometimes that's not the point. Good games don't stem from good characters. Counter Strike is a good game.

Master Chief of Halo says maybe two sentences every game. I still think he's an incredible character. Cortana only makes him better. Cardinal sins? Don't make me laugh.

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No deep looking required. Video gamers make sure you would notice they are women and just in case you cannot spot them easily- the breasts have to bounce too.

So women being 'damsels in distress' are a problem, but women who overcompensate and become 'masculine' are also a problem.
What isn't? Tough-girl syndrome plagues the media? They can't be tough, they can't be soft. Seems like it's rough to be a woman in video games if they have to live up to your standards.
How about you describe someone that lives up to these demands?

Problem arises when tough girls need to make sure people know they are girl by wearing impractical clothes and using sexual charms almost everywhere all the time.

While some criticism that I read over cortana maybe 'reaching' naked girl in a jar or AI is kind of cliche depiction - J.A.R.V.I.S. takes a human form and gets a body suit Cortana decided to play a naked blue woman.

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You may be used to it but the contrast is a little odd and makes one wonder why she couldn't dress up a little bit more.

You've given me yet another list of 'problems' you have with these characters. You've yet to answer my first question: what's your take on a solution?

Solution is getting such cliche and sexist portrayals minimized and increase number of better female characters than we are getting right now and speaking up and pointing out problems with character portrayals if there is a problem to draw attention of the game makers. Female gamers want to be able to relate more to and enjoy playing with those characters just as men do.

 

[Yubel]

Oh really? And since you presume you have a right to make a conclusive decision about what 'I' am looking for let me return the favour - you are simply a misogynist who just wants to hold on to privileged status and power and doesn't want the other 50% of the human population share the stage with you. And you have demonstrated it several times over in many threads on this topic.

It's people like you who inspire some of the women to act just much silly and stupid reactions and then you cry about crazy feminazi.

Let's not forget the only reason feminists continues to exist is because other men are supporting them. No woman would dare to act up in saudiarabia and not experience the consequences. You want welfare, you want daddy government to take care of you and your only lifeline are other men because you can't do shit on your own, yet you complain and only complain about first world problems. Most of which is utter bs while turning a blind eye to real problems that exist in the world, independent woman my ass. This is why feminism is a joke.

 

[Avani 👑]

Let's not forget the only reason feminists continues to exist is because other men are supporting them. No woman would dare to act up in saudiarabia and not experience the consequences. You want welfare, you want daddy government to take care of you and your only lifeline are other men because you can't do shit on your own, yet you complain and only complain about first world problems. Most of which is utter bs while turning a blind eye to real problems that exist in the world, independent woman my ass. This is why feminism is a joke.

Actually thinking like that is what makes feminism relevant and will keep it so. The condition of women in Saudi Arabia only emphasizes the need.

Once again thanks for demonstrating what kind of people bring reactionary posts of some feminazies-

 

[ZK]

While I agree there have been male writer who depicted excellent female characters and vice versa, those two example are bad-

Tolkien is not known for great female characters - in fact he often gets mocked for the lack of female characters.. So much so that a small LoTR forum I was at, even male members joked Elves gave birth asexually and that explains why there were so many elves without a mother.. Arwen is there only to be an elven queen and she met a miserable lonely death in the end. She is acts unselfishly when in love and is ready to be a mortal in name of love but that's it.

Not that I don't love and enjoy LoTR but I cannot give it much credit for something it doesn't have. It has women but in traditional Roles. And the fact that you name Arwen and Galadriel you seem to be taken your clue from the movie not the book itself... If you have read the book- tell me what stood them out to you in these two characters?

As for Mr Darcy- yeah he became everything what the heroine wanted and an ideal suitor and the story ended with that. But gaming industry is not hiring such writers like Jane Austen.

I won't argue that my examples could have been better. I would, however, like to note that Tolkien wrote LotR around the time of World War 2. Expecting a 'modern' depiction of women from him makes no sense.
I don't quite follow your problem with Arwen, though. She's there only to be an elven queen? You don't think there's some depth to her choices? I'd dare venture that there is.

You are reacting to his post rather than replying him- the general problem is that there are just too many video games which are blatantly sexist or have similar over tones.

The noise over Lara croft was not because of her boobs- they were tolerated for a long time- Many fans ( even the ones who do not identify themselves as feminists or females) had reacted because in the new version at the time she was crying too much and there was a part where player has to save her from a rape ( I haven't played the game but I have read implied rape situation and that the idea is used again recently). The excuse of game makers was that they wanted player to have sympathy for her and save her... the damsel in distress..

Have you played Tomb Raider from 2013? Lara is anything but sexualized, anything but a damsel.
Sexism in video games, huh. I'll reiterate: women can't have perceived masculine traits, 'cause that's a problem, but the opposite is also a problem. What exactly is it that bothers you, again? Too many women in bikinis and ridiculous armor? I was under the impression that women being sexually liberated was a good thing. Should they cover up?
Oh, right. That'd be sexist as well. Seems like we're walking along a knife's edge here.

Also, I don't understand the problem with the damsel in distress. Is it that a male character saves a female character that represents a problem? If so that seems like a very fickle argument. Lots of characters of both genders are saved from some peril or other by the protagonists of hundreds of games. Does the problem only exist when a man saves a woman?

Again, I can understand calling the idea a cliché, but a feminist issue? A sexism issue? Not at all.

I didn't reply yesterday but I checked some articles on the net over the issue to check out which games they were talking about and games with Male character moving while banging every female around, players, facilitating boob touching , winning *** cards, this kind of theme are common. But even when such demeaning and objectifying themes are not involved, depicting female character in titillating ways is pretty standard practice. It's not just the size of boobs but the way it's presented. The impractical costumes designed to bare rather than having any tactical advantage, gesture, pose camera angle - everything is used to satiate the male fantasy.

Those themes are common, are they? In what games exactly do male characters move around and bang every female around? The Witcher *** cards you're talking about are a very, very tiny part of the game, and I don't even know what to say to the rest. Facilitate boob touching? Since when did we become so afraid of ***? So negatively impacted by *** appeal? Too little clothes is sexist, too much is sexist. I understand your point about practical armor, I do, but, once again, I don't understand why you expect that kind of realism from games. Part of the appeal of Army of Two is that the characters look bad-ass. That's the point of the armor. Should it be redesigned to be practical and realistic? The Mjolnir suits from Halo are supposed to be bad-ass. The Space Marine armor is supposed to be bad-ass.

Everything is used to satiate the male fantasy... sure, that's the motivation for game designers. They don't want to make good games; they want to demean and objectify women.

The number of female gamers has increased and the industry hasn't taken them in to account yet- yes some of them have listened or forced to listen but not till women started speaking up and registered their presence as a consumer. And many are yet to catch up. Rather than changing and stop being so sexist many game makers still prefer to keep such themes up- because for them males have better buying capacity and *** and sexist depiction suits their view. Over sexualization isn't good for the society as a whole- of course you may not agree with this point but i believe so and would support less of it in video games too.

I think games are very much 'catching up' and taking women into account. Games like "Life is Strange" and the growing number of games with both male and female, or just female protagonists makes that perfectly clear.
But no, I don't think 'oversexualization' is a problem. What could it lead to? You're suggesting that it might have an impact, like those who really believe violent video games make children violent in real life.

One of the articles on sexism in fact lauded Final Fantasy for it's male character designs being as eye pleasing as female ones is considered les sexist. But then came Final Fantasy 4:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

^ really? Are male characters look like coming from a strippers club that often?

The same person added this later on:


You should check out the long essay yourself sometime:

You must be registered for see links

[/QUOTE]

Nothing wrong with being a stripper. It's a sexualized job, but an honest one.
But no, male characters don't look like strippers, but they often look and sound like mindless grunts whose only job is to be big, strong and imposing. Where's the depth in that? Do I thin it's problematic or sexist? Not at all.

She actually didn't present the issue that well. Her not being able to make a proper case doesn't meant she was wrong.


Yea- FYI those hunks are not really depicted to serve female fantasies- when they are drawn to serve female fantasy- male half starts screaming gay and gets uber uncomfortable in their turn..

How nice. So you have 'the male fantasy' pegged and now you're trying to box in 'the female fantasy.'
What?
How in the world are you an authority on whether or not a certain character serves any kind of fantasy? And don't even get me started on 'the male half' being uncomfortable with gay characters... Jesus Christ.

Yea it's not just six pack and cup size. You are extremely limited in your understanding with such depictions- or you are ignoring the other aspects in favour of saving the depictions you like. Average Male characters get layers of armour, the ones without armour are so muscled up that the idea is that their body itself is strong enough to not needing it. They have the power.

I think we've both mentioned boobs quite a few times now. Let's not start pointing fingers. How can you call me limited and then write this?:

Female character- have trouble finding a proper bra to support their boobs even. And sometimes larger the boob, more the trouble finding even the bikini armour to support it properly.

You seem extremely limited, honestly. The average male character? Do you know how many games, even just triple A games, there are on the market? Alright, let's say that the 'average' male character is layered in armor and often more ripped than Schwarzenegger... isn't that a problem? It's a super unrealistic and demeaning depiction of males as nothing more than a pair of walking... wait for it... biceps.

I don't understand your expectations.

They have power, do they? That's your definition of power? Big muscles? Not only that, but of all the things to have a problem with you choose that? Triss Merrigold has power. Bayonetta has power. *** and power are not mutually exclusive.

The whole industry related with entertainment, but more specially the comic, anime and video games suffer such moments : The magazine decides to make a spider woman cover page- lo and behold they hire a porn artist to do so. She doesn't have a spidy suit- she has body paint! and has lifted her bottom up in the air in the strangest way possible- the post is strikingly similar to the artists another previous drawing where the woman had been exposing her vagina to the crowd doggy style! yay!

Let's not talk DC or Marvel superheroes. Now that's a maze of clichés. Both Spider Girl and Spider Woman kick ass, though. You're angry about sexualization, which I guess I can understand to some extend, but you seem extremely limited in your understanding of what 'makes' a character.

You forgot candy crush and temple run.

Yeah. I was mocking him.

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No deep looking required. Video gamers make sure you would notice they are women and just in case you cannot spot them easily- the breasts have to bounce too.

Generally speaking I'd say that most people are able to spot who's a woman and who isn't... and I don't know about where you come from, but here breasts do bounce.

Problem arises when tough girls need to make sure people know they are girl by wearing impractical clothes and using sexual charms almost everywhere all the time.

While some criticism that I read over cortana maybe 'reaching' naked girl in a jar or AI is kind of cliche depiction - J.A.R.V.I.S. takes a human form and gets a body suit Cortana decided to play a naked blue woman.

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You may be used to it but the contrast is a little odd and makes one wonder why she couldn't dress up a little bit more.

Cortana is naked, but not at all sexualized. She's witty, smart, extremely capable and literally saves Earth a couple of times.
She's also saved by Master Chief in one of the games. Totally a damsel in distress that one time.
If that bothers you I just don't know what to say.
Why would she need to cover up again? For the decency of womanhood? Spare me.

Solution is getting such cliche and sexist portrayals minimized and increase number of better female characters than we are getting right now and speaking up and pointing out problems with character portrayals if there is a problem to draw attention of the game makers. Female gamers want to be able to relate more to and enjoy playing with those characters just as men do.

No clichés, 'cause that's problematic. No sexualizing, 'cause that's problematic. More women, for no other reason that they are women.
I can relate to a lot of characters. Many of them fight monsters and save the world. I don't fight monsters or save the world, but I can relate to them just the same.

 

[Sir Francis Drake]

While I agree there have been male writer who depicted excellent female characters and vice versa, those two example are bad-

Tolkien is not known for great female characters - in fact he often gets mocked for the lack of female characters.. So much so that a small LoTR forum I was at, even male members joked Elves gave birth asexually and that explains why there were so many elves without a mother.. Arwen is there only to be an elven queen and she met a miserable lonely death in the end. She is acts unselfishly when in love and is ready to be a mortal in name of love but that's it.

Not that I don't love and enjoy LoTR but I cannot give it much credit for something it doesn't have. It has women but in traditional Roles. And the fact that you name Arwen and Galadriel you seem to be taken your clue from the movie not the book itself... If you have read the book- tell me what stood them out to you in these two characters?

As for Mr Darcy- yeah he became everything what the heroine wanted and an ideal suitor and the story ended with that. But gaming industry is not hiring such writers like Jane Austen.



You are reacting to his post rather than replying him- the general problem is that there are just too many video games which are blatantly sexist or have similar over tones.

The noise over Lara croft was not because of her boobs- they were tolerated for a long time- Many fans ( even the ones who do not identify themselves as feminists or females) had reacted because in the new version at the time she was crying too much and there was a part where player has to save her from a rape ( I haven't played the game but I have read implied rape situation and that the idea is used again recently). The excuse of game makers was that they wanted player to have sympathy for her and save her... the damsel in distress..

I didn't reply yesterday but I checked some articles on the net over the issue to check out which games they were talking about and games with Male character moving while banging every female around, players, facilitating boob touching , winning *** cards, this kind of theme are common. But even when such demeaning and objectifying themes are not involved, depicting female character in titillating ways is pretty standard practice. It's not just the size of boobs but the way it's presented. The impractical costumes designed to bare rather than having any tactical advantage, gesture, pose camera angle - everything is used to satiate the male fantasy.

The number of female gamers has increased and the industry hasn't taken them in to account yet- yes some of them have listened or forced to listen but not till women started speaking up and registered their presence as a consumer. And many are yet to catch up. Rather than changing and stop being so sexist many game makers still prefer to keep such themes up- because for them males have better buying capacity and *** and sexist depiction suits their view. Over sexualization isn't good for the society as a whole- of course you may not agree with this point but i believe so and would support less of it in video games too.


One of the articles on sexism in fact lauded Final Fantasy for it's male character designs being as eye pleasing as female ones is considered les sexist. But then came Final Fantasy 4:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

^ really? Are male characters look like coming from a strippers club that often?

The same person added this later on:



You should check out the long essay yourself sometime:

You must be registered for see links

She actually didn't present the issue that well. Her not being able to make a proper case doesn't meant she was wrong.


Yea- FYI those hunks are not really depicted to serve female fantasies- when they are drawn to serve female fantasy- male half starts screaming gay and gets uber uncomfortable in their turn..


Yea it's not just six pack and cup size. You are extremely limited in your understanding with such depictions- or you are ignoring the other aspects in favour of saving the depictions you like. Average Male characters get layers of armour, the ones without armour are so muscled up that the idea is that their body itself is strong enough to not needing it. They have the power.

Female character- have trouble finding a proper bra to support their boobs even. And sometimes larger the boob, more the trouble finding even the bikini armour to support it properly.

The whole industry related with entertainment, but more specially the comic, anime and video games suffer such moments : The magazine decides to make a spider woman cover page- lo and behold they hire a porn artist to do so. She doesn't have a spidy suit- she has body paint! and has lifted her bottom up in the air in the strangest way possible- the post is strikingly similar to the artists another previous drawing where the woman had been exposing her vagina to the crowd doggy style! yay!




You forgot candy crush and temple run.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see links

No deep looking required. Video gamers make sure you would notice they are women and just in case you cannot spot them easily- the breasts have to bounce too.



Problem arises when tough girls need to make sure people know they are girl by wearing impractical clothes and using sexual charms almost everywhere all the time.

While some criticism that I read over cortana maybe 'reaching' naked girl in a jar or AI is kind of cliche depiction - J.A.R.V.I.S. takes a human form and gets a body suit Cortana decided to play a naked blue woman.

You must be registered for see images

You may be used to it but the contrast is a little odd and makes one wonder why she couldn't dress up a little bit more.



Solution is getting such cliche and sexist portrayals minimized and increase number of better female characters than we are getting right now and speaking up and pointing out problems with character portrayals if there is a problem to draw attention of the game makers. Female gamers want to be able to relate more to and enjoy playing with those characters just as men do.

@bold:

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[shelke]

Spoiler

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^ really? Are male characters look like coming from a strippers club that often?

That's Fran from Final Fantasy XII - a Viera (a different race) from Ivalice. Apparently, she's a princess who dresses with less patches on her than your average 20 dollar ***** in Mexico after mid night. It doesn't help that her characterization is literally non-existent.

What you have here, folks, is a sexual object on screen with zero personality behind it. But hey, let's turn the other cheek how terribly written characters in VGs are, especially female characters.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

That's Fran from Final Fantasy XII - a Viera (a different race) from Ivalice. Apparently, she's a princess who dresses with less patches on her than your average 20 dollar ***** in Mexico after mid night. It doesn't help that her characterization is literally non-existent.

What you have here, folks, is a sexual object on screen with zero personality behind it. But hey, let's turn the other cheek how terribly written characters in VGs are, especially female characters.

Was she a princess? I can't remember, all I remember was her annoying nasal voice and weird pronunciation of things.

 

[shelke]

Was she a princess? I can't remember, all I remember was her annoying nasal voice and weird pronunciation of things.

Yeah, Jote (whichever way you pronounce it) was the leader of the people and Fran's the middle one - the second younger sister. Miran was the youngest. She the sister of the head of the entire Viera race, it's safe to assume that she's their princess or has that status. I don't think Viera use that term, but it was pretty obvious that status she held.

Yeah ... that terrible English VA for her. And, this is coming from someone who loved most characters in English in this game.

 

[WalksInShadows]

i don't consider all feminists bad, just a lot of the Western feminists. I'm all for gender equality, however possible it is, but imo they keep making their struggle about the wrong thing when there are plenty of women across disenfranchised parts of the world who don't have the rights and opportunities that their male counterparts do.

 

[YowYan]

Let's not forget the only reason feminists continues to exist is because other men are supporting them. No woman would dare to act up in saudiarabia and not experience the consequences. You want welfare, you want daddy government to take care of you and your only lifeline are other men because you can't do shit on your own, yet you complain and only complain about first world problems. Most of which is utter bs while turning a blind eye to real problems that exist in the world, independent woman my ass. This is why feminism is a joke.

You went full retard again boy

 

[Avani 👑]

@bold:

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[/SPOILER]

It's not equivalent example. I already explained the difference in previous post but I guess people are not reading the details. Are any of these guys being posed in titillating or erotic poses as many female characters end up? Those sumo wrestlers or muscle men aren't even designed to reflect any kind of dexterity but it's just about how powerful they are. For some of them it's not their regular costume even and even when shown in full the detailing is not to the extent to make it awkward. You even included random naked or relatively naked images of male character who normally have full body costumes.

The image of Raidan you posted - is was little more detailed and posed as a mannequin/sexless robot:

Spoiler

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This is his regular costume:

Spoiler

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These female character I was referring to were not out at beach in one scene. It's their regular costume in combat and the camera angles repeatedly focuses on the figure in sexual ways or they are posed framed as the masturbating materiel. The good female characters are rare to come by and if they do more often than not they have to pay for the role by looking erotic. And here is one example: The video game

You must be registered for see links

Kojima nicely explained in tweet that you could lift and press those boobs of that figurine. How is it not objectifying representation of boobs? I doubt it helps his claim as earlier he had said in a statement that he wanted the character to be erotic and when called upon that he said he meant 'erotic' as in "sexy" and just chose the wrong word. It also makes his claim that he wanted to make people ashamed when they found out why she runs around naked in the first place. How many people are ashamed for staring those boobs? And if they were, why the figurine is facilitating boob playing?

Anyway all this argument is not going anywhere. Some opinions are subjective and of course the boys want their candies and telling them it may give toothache if too much of it doesn't help.

Either way a few years back not many female gamers were there but today their percentage is increasing so that makes them potential consumer now that they are showing an interest and they want better portrayed females and sometimes they even succeed and their demands are being taken in to account in terms of better character stories and roles to an extent though still slowly and not without resistance. *** sells, yes- but it doesn't refine minds that much; nor a society for that matter unless only creative thing it can do, is to procreate. But that's just one point.

Don't you think you too deserve better characters to play with and not seen just a *** crazed teen looking for virtual boobs? Exactly what was your point in showing those images and why do you think people/feminists shouldn't demand better portrayal?

 

[Anorien16]

Don't you think you too deserve better characters to play with and not seen just a *** crazed teen looking for virtual boobs? Exactly what was your point in showing those images and why do you think people/feminists shouldn't demand better portrayal?

The problem lies there only Ira ... Video Game Industry is just like Music Industry (Nick Manaj basically tries to pass softcore porn as music). and Movie Industry (Remind me why Kate Upton is famous?) : The mainstream stuff is filled is shit with the single purpose of sales, where women are active participants (For example: Bayonetta was designed by a woman). In fact you can count the decent male or female characters in a single hand (Last Male character I liked was Ezio and he was a stereotypical angry young man motivated by killed family members .. while the Female was Elizabeth Dewitt who followed the typical evil dad want to take over the world using daughter's power plot line). The entire point is that bad writing is not limited to women ... its a universal issue that some people act like is a female exclusive issue. (Yet if i point fingers at Miley Cyrus ... I would be branded a sexist)

As for the demands by feminists are actually hurting the writing than anything else ... One group of feminists likes one thing and the other another thus we have things like Assassins Creed Syndicate and Dragon Age Inquisition (Which try to pander to 'good writing' crowd) where female characters are perfect and incorrigible with detailed and sob backgrounds but yet mostly unlikeable because they are too goody two shoes without any human flaws (Kinda like Miranda from ME) ... thus will be soon be forgotten (Like Shadee ... the metal bikined charachter from PoP that you showed in a comic. In fact many doesnt even remember the name.) where as characters like Samus (who is a blank slate) or Jaina Proudmore (who has such a complex plot line that she has as many fans as haters) will be remembered.

 

[Anorien16]

That's Fran from Final Fantasy XII - a Viera (a different race) from Ivalice. Apparently, she's a princess who dresses with less patches on her than your average 20 dollar ***** in Mexico after mid night. It doesn't help that her characterization is literally non-existent.

What you have here, folks, is a sexual object on screen with zero personality behind it. But hey, let's turn the other cheek how terribly written characters in VGs are, especially female characters.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;LDZX4ooRsWs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs[/video]

That's Nicki Manaj from one of her MVs - a Black Feminist (by her own words) from America. Apparently, she's a singer who dresses with less patches on her than your average 20 dollar ***** in Mexico after mid night. It doesn't help that her relative musical skills is literally non-existent.

What you have here, folks, is a sexual object on screen with zero personality behind it. But hey, let's turn the other cheek how terrible singers in Music Industry are, especially female singers.

 

[Sir Francis Drake]

[/SPOILER]

It's not equivalent example. I already explained the difference in previous post but I guess people are not reading the details. Are any of these guys being posed in titillating or erotic poses as many female characters end up? Those sumo wrestlers or muscle men aren't even designed to reflect any kind of dexterity but it's just about how powerful they are. For some of them it's not their regular costume even and even when shown in full the detailing is not to the extent to make it awkward. You even included random naked or relatively naked images of male character who normally have full body costumes.

The image of Raidan you posted - is was little more detailed and posed as a mannequin/sexless robot:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This is his regular costume:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

These female character I was referring to were not out at beach in one scene. It's their regular costume in combat and the camera angles repeatedly focuses on the figure in sexual ways or they are posed framed as the masturbating materiel. The good female characters are rare to come by and if they do more often than not they have to pay for the role by looking erotic. And here is one example: The video game

You must be registered for see links

Kojima nicely explained in tweet that you could lift and press those boobs of that figurine. How is it not objectifying representation of boobs? I doubt it helps his claim as earlier he had said in a statement that he wanted the character to be erotic and when called upon that he said he meant 'erotic' as in "sexy" and just chose the wrong word. It also makes his claim that he wanted to make people ashamed when they found out why she runs around naked in the first place. How many people are ashamed for staring those boobs? And if they were, why the figurine is facilitating boob playing?

Anyway all this argument is not going anywhere. Some opinions are subjective and of course the boys want their candies and telling them it may give toothache if too much of it doesn't help.

Either way a few years back not many female gamers were there but today their percentage is increasing so that makes them potential consumer now that they are showing an interest and they want better portrayed females and sometimes they even succeed and their demands are being taken in to account in terms of better character stories and roles to an extent though still slowly and not without resistance. *** sells, yes- but it doesn't refine minds that much; nor a society for that matter unless only creative thing it can do, is to procreate. But that's just one point.

Don't you think you too deserve better characters to play with and not seen just a *** crazed teen looking for virtual boobs? Exactly what was your point in showing those images and why do you think people/feminists shouldn't demand better portrayal?

You don't have a choice in the matter of weather Raiden is naked or not. Glad you posted his regular outfit because he might as well not have the bottom half. Kojima gave him a detailed ass.

The fighting game characters are still half-naked even with regular costumes.

Kratos, the first guy I posted is literally a greek god wearing nothing but some cloth. His entire personality is violence and killing for the sake of violence. Literally everyone but him is wearing armor or something protective. Even one of his deaths could have been prevented had he wore some armor.

What does the figure he was shilling have to do with games? The anime industry has had those types of figures for years. So has the comic book industry. And probably so has the movie industry.

The reason Quiet is nearly naked is because she breathd through her skin. Like the also almost naked members of the Skull unit. The game also says Big Boss, the legendary soldier, the guy who fights people with ridiculous powers should watch out for her and lets not forget he killed the greatest sniper in the world at one point, should watch out for her because she is incredibly skilled.

@bold:

The Boss. MGS3
Para-medic MGS3
Meryl. MGS1
Olga Gurlukovich. MGS2
Fortune. MGS2
Sniper Wolf. MGS1
Jill Valentine. Resident Evil
Sheva Alomar. Resident Evil
Samus Aran. Metroid
Alisa. Phantasy Star 1
Alys. Phantasy Star 4
Lucca. Chrono Trigger
Faith. Mirror's Edge
Jade. Beyond Good and Evil
Chell. Portal
Alyx.Half-Life 2
Elena Fisher. Uncharted
Ada Wong. Resident Evil
Joanna Dark. Perfect Dark
Cate Archer. The Operative: No One Lives Forever
Joan D'Arc. Joan D'arc
Liara. Mass Effect
Ayna Stroud
Kat. Halo Reach
Dare. Halo 3: ODST
Ellie. The Last of US
Elizabeth. Bioshock Infinite
Clementine. The Walking Dead
Haruka. Yakuza
Bonnie Macfarlane. Red Dead Redemption
Aveline de Grandpre. Assassin's Creed: Liberation
Aye Brea. Parasite Eve
Princess Zelda. Legend of Zelda
Lara Croft. Tomb Raider reboot