[VS] Deidara vs Tsunade

[KidGamer65]

Your logic is unusually off in your argument for this match-up. Not to sound like Pretentious but your logic for her being able to take negligible damage from Deidara's clay is non sequitar. Using evidence of her taking negligible/no damage from weaker attacks is not indicative of her taking negligible damage from C1+.

Kusanagi blade has failed to penetrate both Enma and V2 Naruto (understandable). However, it's a fact that Kusanagi's sharpness is nowhere near what is hyped. It doesn't even cut rocks anywhere near cleanly as shown by it making impact with them instead of going through like butter [

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]. FYI Asuma's Futon Kunai can canonically cut cleanly through a boulder after passing a tree, meaning it's beyond the Kusanagi which needs the force of Orochimaru behind it to go through those rocks. Since Kusanagi cut Tsunade with ease [

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] as well as completely penetrated her entire body [

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], it's clear your argument about her durability nothing but reaching.

And who said she takes negligible damage from C1? Lmao. Not getting a limb blown off and taking negligible damage are two completely different things. Then we have the fact that your logic here makes zero sense. Where did Asuma cleanly cut through a boulder? Not in this Manga. It pierced halfway into the boulder and cracks started to form all around the surrounding area. [

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] Same thing that happened when Orochimaru ripped through the ground with Kusanagi, but obviously at a lower scale. It's not like a small boulder and deep earth are anywhere close to being the same thing in terms of "durability" to begin with so this point fails just because of that. Then we have the fact that this "impact" you are referencing is obviously because of Orochimaru's head, neck and his sword.

Lariat argument makes no sense at all. Tsunade taking Lariat's power in a concentrated form is laughable when even V3 Susano's much larger and much faster Magatama's didn't live up to Lariat's 'impact' [

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]. PLUS, the Magatama's used against Tsunade were CLEARLY round on the edges

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, they have no piercing power in the first place and it's the reason there's a blunt force when they initially make contact with her body. Something a sharp and fast projectile would never do. And anyways, it would make absolutely no sense for her body to be naturally WAY harder than rock (requirement for blunt impact to occur from a 'penetrative' Yasaka Magatama) but for her to be able to make her lips bleed with a simple bite. Her body is durable in the sense of it can take a good beating, stop trying to turn her into a Raikage.

What? :lol The surface area in comparison to the target is what determines penetration. The edge being round is irrelevant (and false) and you'd know that if the point hadn't flown over your head. In comparison to an attack that is used over a far wider surface area it does equal damage, meaning YM>>>>Base B's Lariat in damage potential. Your V3 Susanoo scan is irrelevant and is also a terrible comparison because no one is judging the impact made by both attacks. :lol The damage to the environment caused by both attacks is what is being judged. Why did you even think it was a good idea to bring that scan when the scan of Lariat shows no impact of that kind? Come on now.

Magatama

Releasing a war deity, one of the three treasures is thrown and will travel thousands of miles (figure of speech, just means it will travel over great distances) to pierce the enemy.

The Jutsu that is Itachi's most powerful long distance attack.

During the recent great ninja war Susano'o activation was shown

Magatama looks like a giant sharingan pattern (Basically), and is thrown like a Shuriken.

It was used against Nagato's Chibaku Tensei, it was used at the same time as Naruto's FuutonRasenshuriken and B's TBB, to hit and erase Chibkau Tensei.

As for Yasaka Magatama, they pierce. Stated by the databook. Actually shown in canon. Are they as sharp as swords? No, but is that relevant here? No. Hardly.

Btw, what Itachi used was no larger than what Madara used and he used individual shots as a distraction while what Madara did to Tsunade was 3 chained together. Hardly a fair comparison.

Tsunade being far more durable than the average shinobi doesn't make her Raikage level. Putting words in my mouth or purposely misconstruing my intentions won't make your argument any less invalid. :lol And really with the underlined? Lmao you call my argument a reach but you say that Tsunade being able to bite her LIP of all parts of her body and draw blood means that the actual parts of her body that are durable can't be strong enough to take something that can rip through rock without damage.

These two explosions were massive

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. And if C variants are thrown in the open, I agree that Tsunade can get out of the centre of the explosion and take non-problematic damage. That's not how Deidara fights though. All of Deidara's 'attacks' are merely to further the next one and the one after that.

Which won't lead him to victory here.

No he wouldn't. He can have the C4 by itself on a C1 bird. Once C4 is ready, Deidara uses Hiding like a Mole and replaces himself with a Nendo Bunshin, and the substitution is too fast for the Sharingan and the Byakugan to notice. She sure as hell won't. At the same time he'd have the bird put the C4 into position where it can send all the micro-bombs into a massive AOE that she won't know about. He won't be affected while far beneath the ground, she won't know he's underground because he'd replace himself with a Nendo Bunshin, and she won't know that the air she's breathing is going to betray her.

Substitution is only a viable method when it comes to battles because of the fact you are in the middle of battle. In the middle of battle involving more than 2-3 people in forests both times around, Kakashi (who wasn't even directly involved) and Neji didn't notice him switch out with a clone. I really hope you don't think that this means Deidara will make a clone and go underground right in front of Tsunade without taking any kind extra steps to hide his movements when substitution is literal

And her not being able to see him swap out with a clone doesn't say anything about him being able to do that AND dive underground undetected.

-She sees Deidara dive underground.
-She jumps.
-She hits the ground.
-Deidara who's underground, his clone and all bombs are obliterated right then and there. C4 may get out, but that doesn't matter because Deidara would be pulverized by something on this

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.

Match ends with Tsunade punching a Nendo Bunshin and thinking she's won until a caterpillar catches wraps around her foot while she's off guard i.e.

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. Or, the C4 strategy I suggested. Or a million other strategies Deidara can use in order to blow a leg off her.

-Tsunade obliterates his clone.
-Clone reveals to be clay the moment it gets hit.
-She evades his follow up attack.

Why would she believe she's won when killing the clone automatically reveals the fact that it was a clone?

with clone feints and activating their explosion will both allow Deidara to do damage on Tsunade while also preparing to swarm her with more clay bombs. C1 can hurt Tsunade, as she isn't brushing off an explosion within seconds. C2 can knock Tsunade unconscious, c3 can even be used to finish her off.

What a terribly vague argument that you've failed to support.

-C1 can't take off her limbs, thus Byakugo heals her in a matter of seconds just like with every other non one shotting injury she's taken in this Manga.

-C2 is irrelevant as using it means he gets caught in the blast. Something I already addressed.

-C3 is a stupid move because he'd get caught in the blast. Lmao.

You're practically saying that Tsunade has more durability than a tailed beast, and the three tailed beast at that, which is known to have the highest durability above the rest. I'm repeating the same thing because you fail to understand that Tsunade is not tanking a clay bomb and remaining conscious, and under the scenario that she does, she's only giving Deidara the opportunity to switch himself with a clay clone or swarm her with more clay bomb variants. Sasuke being pressured by a c2 in terms of speed only solidifies the fact that Tsunade, with vastly lower speed, can be pressured by a vastly inferior clay bomb variant such a c1.

No, because Deidara's C1 on it's own is not strong enough to take out any Bijuu no matter how weak it is. :lol You are repeating the same things because you can't address the counter arguments. Nothing more, nothing less.

Evidence for Tsunade being able to take C1 and remain conscious with all limbs intact: Present.
Evidence for C1 knocking her unconscious: Non existent.

Sasuke being pressured by C2 doesn't mean that Tsunade is pressured by C1 in terms of speed unless you can show that the difference between C1 and C2 is the same as Sasuke and Tsunade in movement speed. Don't bother trying tho because I already know that you can't.

Scattering clay bombs in front of him would work for two reasons. Firstly, it creates a wall between Tsunade and Deidara. Tsunade Isn't stupid enough to run towards explosives. Secondly, Deidara's explosives are mobile. Deidara does not need to move, as his clay bombs will move for him. Mobilizing his troops towards Tsunade will only push the wall against her, causing her to cautiously step back rather than approach the wall with no means of defense.

What in the world? Lmao. First of all all ground based versions of bombs are pointless to use. A hit to the ground obliterates them all and then Tsunade charges Deidara once again.

The link you provided regarding explosions underwater in contrast to on land is invalid. It argues that explosions underwater cause more damage towards targets from a distance than the damage that an on land explosion from a distance causes. While this may be true, it fails to note that there is little to no difference between damages if the target is right beside the explosion. In the scenario given, the tailed beast was directly beside the bomb when the explosion occured, so it can be argued that the feat is consistent and applicable to an on land scenario. Tsunade is going to be forced to dodge bombs the entire time, rather than approaching them recklessly.

What the actual hell? Lmao. I suggest you actually read what you stated and what that article stated because you literally don't make a lick of sense. Bold means that if you are 10m away from an underwater explosion and 10m away from a land explosion the underwater explosion will deal far more damage. They don't say "from a distance" they say "from the same distance" and yes there is a very big difference. Then you could just use common sense. Closer you get to an explosion=The worse damage you'll take. So why would underwater deal more damage from 10m compared to a land explosion only for them to be equal or for land to be stronger when side by side. Lmfao. Read that article, please.

The clay bombs are both an offense and a defense, allowing Deidara to hurt Tsunade while also guiding her path away from him. Reaction speed and base speed do play a huge role in this fight. Tsunade only has a high stat in Taijutsu because of her CES and a little bit of her versality when engaging in close quarter combat, but her overall fighting style is too linear, as a simple punch can easily be evaded simply by slightly adjusting ones position to avoid contact.

No, they don't. If he uses guided C1 birds she can evade well enough to not get caught in the blast while advancing towards Deidara. If he uses ground based bombs she can evade by jumping towards him or she can prematurely detonate them with a punch or kick to the ground while catching Deidara in the AoE of her blast as well.

And lmao. What is with you and these baseless claims? Tsunade has a 5 in Taijutsu because she is that skilled. Period. That is what the Taijutsu stat measures. Not Ninjutsu. If Tsunade and Deidara engage in close quarters the one with massive AoE, superior skill and far superior strength will win. Haku was faster than Wave Arc Sasuke yet Wave Arc Sasuke whooped him in Taijutsu. Speed doesn't mean everything unless there is a large gap, which there isn't. The best he can do is run and throw bombs, which does nothing but delay the inevitable.

With inferior speed, her movements are also made predictable, allowing Deidara to dodge her even more comfortably. Byakugo does indeed raise strength and speed, but deteriorates stamina quickly. Not only that, but it does in no way enhance her speed. Give me something saying that it does, something I can't argue against, and I will concede.

I'm going to need you to sit down, read what you are typing and then get back to me. "Byakugo does indeed raise strength and speed, but it doesn't enhance speed". "Byakugo drains stamina" lmao. Releasing a shit ton of chakra into your body (That is what Byakugo is) deteriorates stamina? Boy if you don't.....

Not having it fly backwards, having it constantly jump backwards using its wings to generate the force.


Lmfao don't know why I thought that for a second. You should get the point regardless, characters can jump high in this manga, the dragon would not be flying just jumping.

If Deidara has to be absolutely grounded, that wasn't really specified, I took it as flight.

But then you'd have to show that it can move fast enough without actual flight to create enough distance between him and Tsunade, but you can't do that considering it's primary usage is for flight, and the dragon itself hasn't shown any extraordinary speed feats. Only his mobile C1 birds have shown speed like that.

Deidara doesn't need to be grounded, he just can't fly.

 

[KidGamer65]

Torn apart means receiving cuts and open wounds. Death can be caused from such injuries, I don't see any contradictions with what she said and Tsunade's state tbh, the only thing is those types of injuries can't kill Tsunade.

Minor cuts=/=Torn apart. Come on. Lmao.

 

[RedRobin]

No offense, but all of this is irrelevant. A gsin in power does not guarantee a gain in speed. Raiton Chakra Mode only enhances speed because it does so directly. It, in and of itself, pertains to the augmentation of speed. Byakugo does not.​

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I honestly was about to try again but everything is beyond clear in that post that I cant explain it any further. So ok.

 

[Icelerate]

She isnt slow at all.

If you are a turtle than that statement is correct.

KH's Tsunade was restricted from the VS section by Zise himself last I checked bro

Damn didn't know about that. I guess I'll use Bantos' Tsunade.

OT: Tsunade wins mid difficulty.

 

[ToshiZO]

Minor cuts=/=Torn apart. Come on. Lmao.

Well that's just something some fodder said, if we're talking about an average ninja they could possibly die. Mabui is just another case of a character being extremely cautious especially since that tech can do damage.

Mabui was clearly over exaggerating considering she felt that it was only a possibility that the 4th could survive it, forget surviving it, the 4th literally took it like it was nothing the worst he had was extremely barely noticeable scuff marks, he could sleep through that.

Spoiler

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Putting way too much weight on empty suspense. She felt it was a maybe for the 4th to survive that tech which was nothing to him.

 

[Imperious]

I honestly was about to try again but everything is beyond clear in that post that I cant explain it any further. So ok.

Nice negative reputation...? The only thing that is clear is your inability to comprehend that Byakugo augments strength and healing rate. It does not enhance speed because it is not in overall physical enhancement technique. It pertains to enhancing specifically Tsunade's healing factor, while the excess flow of chakra would logically enhance her CES.​

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[RedRobin]

Nice negative reputation...? The only thing that is clear is your inability to comprehend that Byakugo augments strength and healing rate. It does not enhance speed because it is not in overall physical enhancement technique. It pertains to enhancing specifically Tsunade's healing factor, while the excess flow of chakra would logically enhance her CES.​

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I gave you simply instructions to read till it become clear.

*Release the chakra stored in ones forehead. Wounds completely recover, while at the same time ones own power rises*, however cell division quickens, which shortens ones life span.

*Note, the last line seems to indicate that the technique also increases ones power, besides regeneration, but i’m not a 100% on that line . Considering this is fairly key to how effective the Jutsu is, as if it increases power that explains a-lot about Tsunade and Sakura’s performances/hype, it would be great if another translator went over it. It’s the last line in the text bellow the picture of Tsunade recovering and Madara being punched (which would suggest i’m correct because the pics are highlighting regen and power, but I just don’t want to call it and start a shit storm w/o being 100% sure).

So apparently Byakugo no Jutsu is a separate technique than Sousou Saisei, that is used as a booster; hmm I wonder who could have said that and got *****ed at in the NBD for suggesting so”

Raiton Chakra collects on the body, it's a body invigoration ninjutsu. From inside the body lightning gushes out, the speed of ones nerve transmissions rises. The body is wrapped in lightning, the jutsu durability is like that of armor. The Raikages' application of it causes their combat power to rise considerably.

It managed to chase Naruto's Bijuu Chakra Mode, however it was inferior to the great speed of the Yellow-Flash

Now before you call the translator wrong this is more clear by the use of the picture of Tsunade hitting Madara, thats not a show of strength. Its a show of speed and reactions i.e. combat power.

It does the same thing as chakra cloaks in this manga. Like the raiton cloak which speeds up Ay because it charges the electrical impulses in the brain and overall boosts combat power. Byakugo does the same instead of being raiton its simply chakra surging all over the body.

 

[RedRobin]

Well that's just something some fodder said, if we're talking about an average ninja they could possibly die. Mabui is just another case of a character being extremely cautious especially since that tech can do damage.

Mabui was clearly over exaggerating considering she felt that it was only a possibility that the 4th could survive it, forget surviving it, the 4th literally took it like it was nothing the worst he had was extremely barely noticeable scuff marks, he could sleep through that.

Spoiler

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Putting way too much weight on empty suspense. She felt it was a maybe for the 4th to survive that tech which was nothing to him.

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is torn apart. She states that the transmission rate is so fast the body cant keep up, that doesnt translate to cuts, that would translate to the body being completely torn apart and at best not together.

Some fodder who does the technique and is the only one who is shown to be able to do it and have knowledge on it. :lol

She said the 4th could possibly survive because he has the 3rd's blood running in him. That turns out to be true but Tsunade also survives which all goes back to being close to their level for surviving something only they could.

 

[ToshiZO]

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is torn apart. She states that the transmission rate is so fast the body cant keep up, that doesnt translate to cuts, that would translate to more the body being completely torn apart and at best not together.

Some fodder who does the technique and is the only one who is shown to be able to do it and have knowledge on it. :lol

She said the 4th could possible survive because he has the 3rd's blood running in him. That turns out to be true but Tsunade also survives which all goes back to being close to their level for surviving something only they could.

Well she clearly didn't know either her own Raikage, or the jutsu well enough for even questioning the Raikage surviving it, considering not only did he survive he wasn't even remotely injured.

It's more just your typical over exaggeration, to build suspense. Looking at what really matters, she survived because of her endurance (regen), as that's what was being highlighted.

 

[MasqueradeNX]

Deidara wins this, I dont see Tsunade winning at all.

 

[RedRobin]

Well she clearly didn't know either her own Raikage, or the jutsu well enough for even questioning the Raikage surviving it, considering not only did he survive he wasn't even remotely injured.

It's more just your typical over exaggeration, to build suspense. Looking at what really matters, she survived because of her endurance (regen), as that's what was being highlighted.

Thats your opinion. She's his assistant, she knows him. She correctly gauges that he could possibly do it because of his relation to 3rd Raikage.

She gives Tsunade 0% chance. Out comes Tsunade throwing a kick. Compared to what was supposed to happen and what did happen we can easily conclude Tsunade has a strong and tough body.

 

[Imperious]

I gave you simply instructions to read till it become clear.

And for that, we thank you ​

​

 

[Zexion~]

I don't understand why Tsunade tanking something that pierces is being used to argue she can tank an explosion....?

 

[ToshiZO]

But then you'd have to show that it can move fast enough without actual flight to create enough distance between him and Tsunade, but you can't do that considering it's primary usage is for flight, and the dragon itself hasn't shown any extraordinary speed feats. Only his mobile C1 birds have shown speed like that.

Deidara doesn't need to be grounded, he just can't fly.

The Dragon was fast enough to propel itself to the right and dodge the shurikens that were nearly about to hit Deidara. [

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][

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]

Those giant wings can generate speed, if it can move sideways like that then it can force itself backwards even if on the ground. Don't see anything far fetched about this, the only argument would be, would Deidara think of doing this (but in an oddly restricted thread like this, anything should go).

Besides why are we acting like he needs to be like a km away here lol?

Sasuke's Chidori Eiso's range is 5 meters, and it was awfully close to the Dragon [

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]. Deidara might have flown a bit further after but juding by that panel he was hardly even twice the range of the spear when he decided to fire it off. High end estimate he was 25-30 meters away give or take , lowballing it he was 15-20 meters away from Sasuke when he fired it off.

Ofcourse by the time it exploded he moved even further away, but now we know he doesn't hesitate to fire it off anywhere between 15-30 meters roughly and considering this fight already starts at 10 meters, it's not that tall of an order for him.

Thats your opinion. She's his assistant, she knows him. She correctly gauges that he could possibly do it because of his relation to 3rd Raikage.

She gives Tsunade 0% chance. Out comes Tsunade throwing a kick. Compared to what was supposed to happen and what did happen we can easily gauge Tsunade's has a strong and tough body.

Yea the very fact that she only gave the 4th Raikage a possibility of surviving the tech, shows it was being significantly exaggerated. So that percentage you threw out there, of what she thought, is quite irrelevant.

And sure she has a strong and tough body, not comparable to the Raikage's. Stronger and tougher (however slightly) than your average human sure I can accept that...not going to save her against these explosions though.

 

[KidGamer65]

I don't understand why Tsunade tanking something that pierces is being used to argue she can tank an explosion....?

Because tanking something that pierces with that much power behind it with zero damage is a far better feat than tanking an explosion. :lol Better penetration=More damage potential. And who said she tanks C1? Tanking C1 and surviving it without limbs being blown off are 2 completely different things once again.

The Dragon was fast enough to propel itself to the right and dodge the shurikens that were nearly about to hit Deidara. [

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][

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]

Those giant wings can generate speed, if it can move sideways like that then it can force itself backwards even if on the ground. Don't see anything far fetched about this, the only argument would be, would Deidara think of doing this (but in an oddly restricted thread like this, anything should go).

Besides why are we acting like he needs to be like a km away here lol?

Sasuke's Chidori Eiso's range is 5 meters, and it was awfully close to the Dragon [

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]. Deidara might have flown a bit further after but juding by that panel he was hardly even twice the range of the spear when he decided to fire it off. High end estimate he was 25-30 meters away give or take , lowballing it he was 15-20 meters away from Sasuke when he fired it off.

Ofcourse by the time it exploded he moved even further away, but now we know he doesn't hesitate to fire it off anywhere between 15-30 meters roughly and considering this fight already starts at 10 meters, it's not that tall of an order for him.

"Propel itself to the right" lmao dude. That is flight. Sure, you've proven that it can fly fast, but that's not the same as moving on the ground nor is the same as actually jumping. If he's jumping but using his wings then he's flying. "It can force itself backwards even if on the ground" doesn't make sense because being on the ground and being in air are two completely different things. You are basically saying the dragon flies backwards, but you are throwing in words like propel and jump to make it seem like it won't be flying even though it will be.

And who said or implied he needs to be a km away? The dragon being able to cover distance is irrelevant unless it can widen the gap between him and Tsunade, which isn't going to happen. The fight starts at 10 meters, sure, but he needs to call his dragon, mount it and then start to move while Tsunade can just charge him from the start of the match.

 

[Apêx1]

And who said she takes negligible damage from C1? Lmao. Not getting a limb blown off and taking negligible damage are two completely different things. Then we have the fact that your logic here makes zero sense. Where did Asuma cleanly cut through a boulder? Not in this Manga. It pierced halfway into the boulder and cracks started to form all around the surrounding area. [

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] Same thing that happened when Orochimaru ripped through the ground with Kusanagi, but obviously at a lower scale. It's not like a small boulder and deep earth are anywhere close to being the same thing in terms of "durability" to begin with so this point fails just because of that. Then we have the fact that this "impact" you are referencing is obviously because of Orochimaru's head, neck and his sword.

Wtf? Do you not read the scan you're posting? He clearly says right there that he held back but he could easily have that kunai pass through the boulder. And anyways, if you're trying to still defend Kusanagi's penetrative power than explain why non-staff form Enma could exert so much force on the Kusanagi as to start bleeding

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but still didn't have his hand cut cleanly through. He's bleeding meaning that in all likelihood his bones are capable of withstanding the Kusanagi's extreme penetrative power without being cut through cleanly. Again, think if a sword covered in Raiton was in its stead, his hand would be cut like butter the more he presses on it. Put a Raiton covered sword 5cm into the floor the floor and it would just sink in. The Kusanagi was shown to remain standing on the roof of the fight

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. Honestly, Tsunade getting cut and pierced by it so easily is all the proof I need that she's not nearly as durable as you are saying.

What? :lol The surface area in comparison to the target is what determines penetration. The edge being round is irrelevant (and false) and you'd know that if the point hadn't flown over your head. In comparison to an attack that is used over a far wider surface area it does equal damage, meaning YM>>>>Base B's Lariat in damage potential. Your V3 Susanoo scan is irrelevant and is also a terrible comparison because no one is judging the impact made by both attacks. :lol The damage to the environment caused by both attacks is what is being judged. Why did you even think it was a good idea to bring that scan when the scan of Lariat shows no impact of that kind? Come on now.

Can you support this more thoroughly? The point is flying over my hand because it seems to me like a baseless claim at the moment. How did you even determine such a thing?

As for Yasaka Magatama, they pierce. Stated by the databook. Actually shown in canon. Are they as sharp as swords? No, but is that relevant here? No. Hardly.

Btw, what Itachi used was no larger than what Madara used and he used individual shots as a distraction while what Madara did to Tsunade was 3 chained together. Hardly a fair comparison.

Tsunade being far more durable than the average shinobi doesn't make her Raikage level. Putting words in my mouth or purposely misconstruing my intentions won't make your argument any less invalid. :lol And really with the underlined? Lmao you call my argument a reach but you say that Tsunade being able to bite her LIP of all parts of her body and draw blood means that the actual parts of her body that are durable can't be strong enough to take something that can rip through rock without damage.

Ok.

I'll accept her durability (to the extent the Kusanagi limits her) when you explain YM being comparable to or greater than Bee's Lariat.

Substitution is only a viable method when it comes to battles because of the fact you are in the middle of battle. In the middle of battle involving more than 2-3 people in forests both times around, Kakashi (who wasn't even directly involved) and Neji didn't notice him switch out with a clone. I really hope you don't think that this means Deidara will make a clone and go underground right in front of Tsunade without taking any kind extra steps to hide his movements when substitution is literal
And her not being able to see him swap out with a clone doesn't say anything about him being able to do that AND dive underground undetected.

-She sees Deidara dive underground.
-She jumps.
-She hits the ground.
-Deidara who's underground, his clone and all bombs are obliterated right then and there. C4 may get out, but that doesn't matter because Deidara would be pulverized by something on this

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.

Huh? I don't need to explain the mechanics behind it, I just need to link you to it happening in the manga against Sasuke

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. Deidara takes a punch from KN0 Naruto

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and substitutes out of there. Inb4 it's a forest. Only matters if a tree or something else is hindering Naruto's vision, which clearly isn't happening here

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. Only one you can argue that for is Team Gai v Deidara, these two examples are more than enough to shit on this 'battle' claim. Whether it's logical or not means nothing because it happened canonically, twice. Assuming it isn't possible, a mere C1 explosion to block her vision would do the trick.

Not happening bud. He went inside the C1 Bird without Sasuke realising anything. And assuming I'm wrong, C1 explosion to block vision into my strategy is a safe alternative. No counter to this at all, her vision will be blocked and anything he does in that time - Tsunade will be ignorant to.

It's hilarious that you've completely just ignored the fact that C4 is not fatal to Deidara given he can use Hiding like a Mole. How is that not the end for Tsunade? She can do nothing about it and she won't affect Deidara 30 meters below the ground nor will she know where he is since she knows naught of his ability to burrow under ground.

-Tsunade obliterates his clone.
-Clone reveals to be clay the moment it gets hit.
-She evades his follow up attack.

Why would she believe she's won when killing the clone automatically reveals the fact that it was a clone?

Since when was Tsunade a sensor? Assuming the clone does get obliterated, the fact that the centipede could be trying to crawl from behind+underneath her the moment she's throwing a punch would be the end of her. How can you possibly compare Tsunade knowing an underground attack is coming vs Tsunade not in the least expecting one to happen and being completely oblivious to Deidara having dropped clay that can travel underground? I mean... Kabuto literally went underground RIGHT in front of her

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...... You're going to need to tell me how she's going to react to a centipede attack. Kage's already got caught by Gaara's sand from underneath, in exception of Mu who's a sensor. Sandaime didn't react, which goes to tell you about how little reaction speed matters in such situations [

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][

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]. I have absolutely no reason to believe Tsunade will react. Give me a reason or there's no need to discuss this 1 legged Tsunade match-up any longer.

 

[Imperious]

And who said she takes negligible damage from C1? Lmao. Not getting a limb blown off and taking negligible damage are two completely different things. Then we have the fact that your logic here makes zero sense. Where did Asuma cleanly cut through a boulder? Not in this Manga. It pierced halfway into the boulder and cracks started to form all around the surrounding area. [

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] Same thing that happened when Orochimaru ripped through the ground with Kusanagi, but obviously at a lower scale. It's not like a small boulder and deep earth are anywhere close to being the same thing in terms of "durability" to begin with so this point fails just because of that. Then we have the fact that this "impact" you are referencing is obviously because of Orochimaru's head, neck and his sword.






What? :lol The surface area in comparison to the target is what determines penetration. The edge being round is irrelevant (and false) and you'd know that if the point hadn't flown over your head. In comparison to an attack that is used over a far wider surface area it does equal damage, meaning YM>>>>Base B's Lariat in damage potential. Your V3 Susanoo scan is irrelevant and is also a terrible comparison because no one is judging the impact made by both attacks. :lol The damage to the environment caused by both attacks is what is being judged. Why did you even think it was a good idea to bring that scan when the scan of Lariat shows no impact of that kind? Come on now.


As for Yasaka Magatama, they pierce. Stated by the databook. Actually shown in canon. Are they as sharp as swords? No, but is that relevant here? No. Hardly.

Btw, what Itachi used was no larger than what Madara used and he used individual shots as a distraction while what Madara did to Tsunade was 3 chained together. Hardly a fair comparison.

Tsunade being far more durable than the average shinobi doesn't make her Raikage level. Putting words in my mouth or purposely misconstruing my intentions won't make your argument any less invalid. :lol And really with the underlined? Lmao you call my argument a reach but you say that Tsunade being able to bite her LIP of all parts of her body and draw blood means that the actual parts of her body that are durable can't be strong enough to take something that can rip through rock without damage.




Which won't lead him to victory here.



Substitution is only a viable method when it comes to battles because of the fact you are in the middle of battle. In the middle of battle involving more than 2-3 people in forests both times around, Kakashi (who wasn't even directly involved) and Neji didn't notice him switch out with a clone. I really hope you don't think that this means Deidara will make a clone and go underground right in front of Tsunade without taking any kind extra steps to hide his movements when substitution is literal

And her not being able to see him swap out with a clone doesn't say anything about him being able to do that AND dive underground undetected.

-She sees Deidara dive underground.
-She jumps.
-She hits the ground.
-Deidara who's underground, his clone and all bombs are obliterated right then and there. C4 may get out, but that doesn't matter because Deidara would be pulverized by something on this

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.



-Tsunade obliterates his clone.
-Clone reveals to be clay the moment it gets hit.
-She evades his follow up attack.

Why would she believe she's won when killing the clone automatically reveals the fact that it was a clone?



What a terribly vague argument that you've failed to support.

-C1 can't take off her limbs, thus Byakugo heals her in a matter of seconds just like with every other non one shotting injury she's taken in this Manga.

-C2 is irrelevant as using it means he gets caught in the blast. Something I already addressed.

-C3 is a stupid move because he'd get caught in the blast. Lmao.





No, because Deidara's C1 on it's own is not strong enough to take out any Bijuu no matter how weak it is. :lol You are repeating the same things because you can't address the counter arguments. Nothing more, nothing less.

Evidence for Tsunade being able to take C1 and remain conscious with all limbs intact: Present.
Evidence for C1 knocking her unconscious: Non existent.

Sasuke being pressured by C2 doesn't mean that Tsunade is pressured by C1 in terms of speed unless you can show that the difference between C1 and C2 is the same as Sasuke and Tsunade in movement speed. Don't bother trying tho because I already know that you can't.



What in the world? Lmao. First of all all ground based versions of bombs are pointless to use. A hit to the ground obliterates them all and then Tsunade charges Deidara once again.




What the actual hell? Lmao. I suggest you actually read what you stated and what that article stated because you literally don't make a lick of sense. Bold means that if you are 10m away from an underwater explosion and 10m away from a land explosion the underwater explosion will deal far more damage. They don't say "from a distance" they say "from the same distance" and yes there is a very big difference. Then you could just use common sense. Closer you get to an explosion=The worse damage you'll take. So why would underwater deal more damage from 10m compared to a land explosion only for them to be equal or for land to be stronger when side by side. Lmfao. Read that article, please.



No, they don't. If he uses guided C1 birds she can evade well enough to not get caught in the blast while advancing towards Deidara. If he uses ground based bombs she can evade by jumping towards him or she can prematurely detonate them with a punch or kick to the ground while catching Deidara in the AoE of her blast as well.

And lmao. What is with you and these baseless claims? Tsunade has a 5 in Taijutsu because she is that skilled. Period. That is what the Taijutsu stat measures. Not Ninjutsu. If Tsunade and Deidara engage in close quarters the one with massive AoE, superior skill and far superior strength will win. Haku was faster than Wave Arc Sasuke yet Wave Arc Sasuke whooped him in Taijutsu. Speed doesn't mean everything unless there is a large gap, which there isn't. The best he can do is run and throw bombs, which does nothing but delay the inevitable.



I'm going to need you to sit down, read what you are typing and then get back to me. "Byakugo does indeed raise strength and speed, but it doesn't enhance speed". "Byakugo drains stamina" lmao. Releasing a shit ton of chakra into your body (That is what Byakugo is) deteriorates stamina? Boy if you don't.....



But then you'd have to show that it can move fast enough without actual flight to create enough distance between him and Tsunade, but you can't do that considering it's primary usage is for flight, and the dragon itself hasn't shown any extraordinary speed feats. Only his mobile C1 birds have shown speed like that.

Deidara doesn't need to be grounded, he just can't fly.

I concede. I'm too tired to continue this and I feel as though i'm not even confident in what i'm saying anymore. I tried to make some great points and some strategies that I thought might help him win, and while I don't fully agree with everything you say, I feel as though you won. Thank you for a great debate.​

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[ToshiZO]

"Propel itself to the right" lmao dude. That is flight. Sure, you've proven that it can fly fast, but that's not the same as moving on the ground nor is the same as actually jumping. If he's jumping but using his wings then he's flying. "It can force itself backwards even if on the ground" doesn't make sense because being on the ground and being in air are two completely different things. You are basically saying the dragon flies backwards, but you are throwing in words like propel and jump to make it seem like it won't be flying even though it will be.

And who said or implied he needs to be a km away? The dragon being able to cover distance is irrelevant unless it can widen the gap between him and Tsunade, which isn't going to happen. The fight starts at 10 meters, sure, but he needs to call his dragon, mount it and then start to move while Tsunade can just charge him from the start of the match.

Why would that be considered flight? That is akin to Sasuke using CM2 to give himself extra lift and hovering time before he falls back down. Not following you here at all. And if you want to be that picky not allowing even jumping, then what even stops him from simply sliding back using the force of the Dragon's wings to push him back (though this would be significantly slower)?

Tsunade can charge at him, but you completely forgot I said he will be stopping her momentum with c1 bombs going off on her? She's not Sasuke where she can close the gap instantly before he himself jumps back and starts going off on her, heck he's even faster than her. He likes to fight from a distance so he will obviously try to create that distance, and he will have an easier time doing that, than Tsunade will have closing it.

 

[Imperious]

Wtf? Do you not read the scan you're posting? He clearly says right there that he held back but he could easily have that kunai pass through the boulder. And anyways, if you're trying to still defend Kusanagi's penetrative power than explain why non-staff form Enma could exert so much force on the Kusanagi as to start bleeding

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but still didn't have his hand cut cleanly through. He's bleeding meaning that in all likelihood his bones are capable of withstanding the Kusanagi's extreme penetrative power without being cut through cleanly. Again, think if a sword covered in Raiton was in its stead, his hand would be cut like butter the more he presses on it. Put a Raiton covered sword 5cm into the floor the floor and it would just sink in. The Kusanagi was shown to remain standing on the roof of the fight

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. Honestly, Tsunade getting cut and pierced by it so easily is all the proof I need that she's not nearly as durable as you are saying.



Can you support this more thoroughly? The point is flying over my hand because it seems to me like a baseless claim at the moment. How did you even determine such a thing?



Ok.

I'll accept her durability (to the extent the Kusanagi limits her) when you explain YM being comparable to or greater than Bee's Lariat.




Huh? I don't need to explain the mechanics behind it, I just need to link you to it happening in the manga against Sasuke

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. Deidara takes a punch from KN0 Naruto

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and substitutes out of there. Inb4 it's a forest. Only matters if a tree or something else is hindering Naruto's vision, which clearly isn't happening here

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. Only one you can argue that for is Team Gai v Deidara, these two examples are more than enough to shit on this 'battle' claim. Whether it's logical or not means nothing because it happened canonically, twice. Assuming it isn't possible, a mere C1 explosion to block her vision would do the trick.

Not happening bud. He went inside the C1 Bird without Sasuke realising anything. And assuming I'm wrong, C1 explosion to block vision into my strategy is a safe alternative. No counter to this at all, her vision will be blocked and anything he does in that time - Tsunade will be ignorant to.

It's hilarious that you've completely just ignored the fact that C4 is not fatal to Deidara given he can use Hiding like a Mole. How is that not the end for Tsunade? She can do nothing about it and she won't affect Deidara 30 meters below the ground nor will she know where he is since she knows naught of his ability to burrow under ground.



Since when was Tsunade a sensor? Assuming the clone does get obliterated, the fact that the centipede could be trying to crawl from behind+underneath her the moment she's throwing a punch would be the end of her. How can you possibly compare Tsunade knowing an underground attack is coming vs Tsunade not in the least expecting one to happen and being completely oblivious to Deidara having dropped clay that can travel underground? I mean... Kabuto literally went underground RIGHT in front of her

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...... You're going to need to tell me how she's going to react to a centipede attack. Kage's already got caught by Gaara's sand from underneath, in exception of Mu who's a sensor. Sandaime didn't react, which goes to tell you about how little reaction speed matters in such situations [

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][

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]. I have absolutely no reason to believe Tsunade will react. Give me a reason or there's no need to discuss this 1 legged Tsunade match-up any longer.

I'm in lazy mode right now, as in I generally feel indifferent about everything. I must be tired. Thank you for taking my side and I wish you luck. I'm dropping out of this.​

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[Icelerate]

Where is Tazzilla when you need him? Wanking Tsunade offline I guess.