Danzo and Hiruzen vs Gai and Kakashi

[Haizaki]

BAC2

- Danzo's Fuinjutsu was easily evaded by Sasuke as well in a weakened state

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Gai and Kakashi evades with no difficulty. Not to mention, didn't Obito say he had it set to go off when he

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- Enma isn't doing much. I don't think he has a counter to being ignited..not to mention a lightning clone paralyzes him. If it comes down to CQC, Hiruzen and Danzo get shitstomped by Gai.

- Baku swallows in Asakujaku if he tries to suck them in.

 

[EZQ]

An awesome senju hates kakashi lol, he always goes against him now matter how stupid it can be.

Kakashi and Gai would stomp.

Kakashi warps Hiruzen away, he doesn't have enough speed to dodge instant kamui snipe.
Gai has enough stamina to keep up with danzo's inmortallity till it runs up, and with kakashi's support it wont be too hard.

EDIT: Definitely not a stomp. Med-high diff

 

[BenjerminGaye]

An awesome senju hates kakashi lol, he always goes against him now matter how stupid it can be.

Kakashi and Gai would stomp.

Kakashi warps Hiruzen away, he doesn't have enough speed to dodge instant kamui snipe.
Gai has enough stamina to keep up with danzo's inmortallity till it runs up, and with kakashi's support it wont be too hard.

EDIT: Definitely not a stomp. Med-high diff

No kamui. It's 3t war arc kakashi.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Was waiting for this part.

Obito was intangible when Fu reacted..Unless you think he can be senses while intangible...this is a moot point Lol. The color of his mask and line on his attire show he was even before Fu attacked. Still argue this and I'm wasting my time as the color change is too clear

They are many times when Obito was able to partially use chakra and body parts kept solid, while staying intangible. Regardless of the argument of interpretation, Obito made it clear on why he was impress of Fu, next page of the context

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I expected this from you anyways. I see you're trying to change the fact that he reacted to something he couldn't see. He reacted to what he didn't see. That's all there is to it..this paragraph isn't changing that. I'll tell you the same in Danzo's case, he doesn't have to see what's coming to know what's coming. Kakashi can watch out for him, Kakashi has clones that can assist Gai, Gai has his summon as well. Nothing more to argue here. Gai has what it takes to react to him.

I dont agree with your reasoning on why Gai will react to a surprise back stab. @Bold If your arguments are base on precaution steps, then sure, that works out.

The Location is the Samurai bridge. There's a water source for Kakashi to use. Not to mention we've seen him use a water style jutsu without a water source in that scan you posted.

Didn't deny anything here. Was making a point of the steps to make large scale Suiton for Kakashi's skill.

You made a point with the bold. Meaning they'll cancel out if I interpreted rightly? Because if you meant he was going to copy Kakashi's jutsu, then they cancel out.

Yes they cancel out. What I was arguing that if the scaling of Danzo's was a problem, since bigger attack = stronger, then Danzo copies the bigger attacks and adjust them to his own techs.

Yeah but it's not a problem since they can either dodge or mix theirs to effectively counter it.

They could dodge, as the fight will be a very difficult fight for each other. What mix attacks can Kakashi and Gai combine, in your premise?

Show the scan or you're the one that's blind Lol.

Obviously you know I am going to post Hiruzen 5 element blast. The question is, what made you get to the conclusion that theses jutsu's are small compare to Guy's and Kakashi's ninjutsu?

Lol temporarily? He dodged it even after using his own jutsu that failed . Gai can push up the air and dodge that with ease

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The difference here is that Hiruzen can manipulating his Katon in a form of a dragon, to which can be manipulated much like Suiryūdan no Jutsu.

 

[ATD]

About to jump into this discussion, sorry I'm a bit late.

Firstly - what's this about Hiruzen getting blitzed? The starting distance is 60 meters, I thought that was a good enough distance to prevent blitzing. Hiruzen is by no means getting stomped by Gai, imo. He has ways to protect himself from Gai's powerful attacks, for example the

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. Hiruzen and Enma as a tag team is deadly and effective against Gai, since Enma in pole form is durable enough to withstand most of Gai's punches and kicks, with possible exception of Hirudora.

guy crosses 60 meters like nothing even without activating the 7 gate

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after that he activates the 7 gate which causes a big shockwave and dust cloud (protection)

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after that he blitzed jj madara and pressuered back the Jubis jinchuriki madara uchiha with 1 rinnegan ! ....

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in conclusion old hiruzen together with enma get blizted in no time

Should Hiruzen and Gai come into a

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(with Gai using nunchuks) Enma can

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i doubt a deadlock will happen when guy kept up with v2 jinchurikis which visions were linked in 6 gate and jj madara in 7 gate.
In both senarios hiruzen has no chance of winning.

Second, what's stopping Danzo from using

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? Yes, it kills Danzo in the process but that doesn't matter since he has izanagi, and will just rewrite history so he takes no damage. Since the Enma pole can extend at will , Hiruzen will escape the AoE of the blast by "pole vaulting" himself out of the way.

Base Sasuke dodged that jutsu easily

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war arc kakashi and guy are to fast for that.

A combo of Danzo and Hiruzen is for Danzo to begin to use his suicide technique, and Hiruzen using the Enma pole to push Danzo at the opponent so Danzo is at point-blank range and either Gai or Kakashi will certainly be caught in the blast. Enma can also push Baku at the opponent or into an advantageous position so that Kakashi and Gai get sucked in.

i doubt enma pushes people that fast, the rivals will react with no problems, the siucide move of danzo would be an izanagie waste,
baku was finished by gokaguyu no jutsu, guys morning peacock is enough to finish baku

Hiruzen and Danzo have another combo attack that could very well be useful in this battle. Danzo uses his shunshin

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to quickly get close to an opponent and lock them in close combat (Danzo is deadly in close combat with his speed, sharingan precog, and can use kenjutsu with his fuuton chakra blade).

Danzos shunshin worked against a base sasuke, when he fights kakashi with 3T the latter will see throuh danzos moves, Kakashis speed is far better than danzos since the latter kept up with 6 gate guy.
3T Kakashi was also able to keep up with v2 jinchurikies + linked vision in taijutsu
Toether with a shadow clone kakashi can handle danzo a long time, one of them attacking and the other one defending and watch the area.

This achieves two things: it distracts the opponent and prevents them from weaving hand seals since they are locked in close combat with Danzo (though this second one only applies to Kakashi since Gai doesn't use hand seals.) While they are distracted, Hiruzen wipes both Danzo and his opponent out with a large-scale elemental attack, maybe a fire or a lightning one. Danzo will simply respawn due to izanagi, whereas Gai or Kakashi will die for real.

like guy and kakashi would get blitzed by danzo and wont be able to dodge the elemental attack of hiruzen,
War arc rivals are a lot faster than the elders

Hiruzen and Danzo naturally have the advantage in this battle since they have their individual powerful summons which can be used as distractions or in combo attacks, increasing the number of teammates. I personally would give it to them high difficulty.

Baku eats a morning peacock of guy and enma gets immobilized by beast runner followed by a raikiri kunai to the head.
Danzo is the only real threat due to his sealing jutsus and izanagi, but the rivals improved to much, the elders get surpassed med-high diff.

 

[LuckyMan]

I'd love to see the fire blast you're talking about. Post a scan..Also, I hope you're joking about Danzo's wind blast overpowering Kakashi's massive water style. I won't even take you seriously Lol.

Not to mention this fanfiction is a complete joke. If they both combine wind and fire, all that would be left is fire since the wind only fuels it...It's weak before the water style.

You have the nerve to say you won't take someone serious and you don't even understand the principles of the five basic natures? Lol please go learn about that before responding again.

 

[Haizaki]

They are many times when Obito was able to partially use chakra and body parts kept solid, while staying intangible. Regardless of the argument of interpretation, Obito made it clear on why he was impress of Fu, next page of the context

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I showed you with fact that he was. Arguing this is futile when it's clear in that scan. Obito's words are useless when Torune already shouted at Fu to sense his position.

- When we saw for ourselves that he was intangible when Fu attacked him. You can't possibly be arguing this when it's evident in that scan.

- Not to mention, you're assuming without proof that Obito was physical when he came out. That's assuming he can sense since he didn't see Fu attack him from behind. This even supports the fact that Gai also should be able to react from someone behind him if Obito was physical and still reacted to Fu(which he obviously wasn't) "See what I did there "

I dont agree with your reasoning on why Gai will react to a surprise back stab. @Bold If your arguments are base on precaution steps, then sure, that works out.

You don't have to agree for it to be correct. I've already shown you Gai reacted to an attack he wasn't aware of...Nothing implies Danzo would respawn behind him and execute him right after with Gai's awareness.

Didn't deny anything here. Was making a point of the steps to make large scale Suiton for Kakashi's skill.

Ok

Yes they cancel out. What I was arguing that if the scaling of Danzo's was a problem, since bigger attack = stronger, then Danzo copies the bigger attacks and adjust them to his own techs.

Ok makes sense

They could dodge, as the fight will be a very difficult fight for each other. What mix attacks can Kakashi and Gai combine, in your premise?

Don't really know. If anything, I see them dodging it.

Obviously you know I am going to post Hiruzen 5 element blast. The question is, what made you get to the conclusion that theses jutsu's are small compare to Guy's and Kakashi's ninjutsu?

Because he never showed me one of that scale.

The difference here is that Hiruzen can manipulating his Katon in a form of a dragon, to which can be manipulated much like Suiryūdan no Jutsu.

If he manipulates it, he's changed the chakra ratio and Danzo would have to change it in accordance with him which I don't see happening given the fact that it's unrealistic.

Not to mention, Kakashi can have his lightning clone go underground and attack either one of them since they would be stationary while using this attack.

You have the nerve to say you won't take someone serious and you don't even understand the principles of the five basic natures? Lol please go learn about that before responding again.

Go against me in a 1v1 and you'll be embarrassed given the fact that EJ rescued you since you had no good knowledge on how the chakra percentage works. You just said they'll combine their techniques but ignored the fact that they'll have to adjust to each other's ratio as Tobirama said it's hard feat.

There's only one reason why Danzo can don this, The Sharingan( which you had no idea about).

 

[LuckyMan]

Go against me in a 1v1 and you'll be embarrassed given the fact that EJ rescued you since you had no good knowledge on how the chakra percentage works. You just said they'll combine their techniques but ignored the fact that they'll have to adjust to each other's ratio as Tobirama said it's hard feat.

There's only one reason why Danzo can don this, The Sharingan( which you had no idea about).

Lol I haven't even read that guys arguments. I merely check if you reply then I reply to you if I feel like it. I skipped everything else. How is it a "fact" that he rescued me? I only replied to what you posted about my post,not what you posted about his. You didn't ask me how chakra percentage works and I never needed to explain how because they aren't "combining " techniques into one. One is shooting fire and the other is shooting the wind which will increase fire and overpower any water move Kakashi has. They aren't fusing the techniques into one like you are assuming. Surely you don't believe Sasuke adjusted his chakra ratio perfectly to Baku when his fire became more powerful from its wind right!? The wind simply made his fire stronger that is all, no combining needed. Why!? Like I said, go read about how the natures work.

Once again, your assuming I didn't know Danzo can copy Hiruzens techniques perfectly all because I never said it but you never asked me if he could or any other thing related to that. I'm only replying to your post here. You're responding to me as if I'm EJ and using his arguments when in haven't even read them, nor have I qouted anything he said ( lol not sure because I didn't read his post's), and I think you're just upset you were wrong.

 

[Yocolaw]

About to jump into this discussion, sorry I'm a bit late.

Firstly - what's this about Hiruzen getting blitzed? The starting distance is 60 meters, I thought that was a good enough distance to prevent blitzing. Hiruzen is by no means getting stomped by Gai, imo. He has ways to protect himself from Gai's powerful attacks, for example the

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. Hiruzen and Enma as a tag team is deadly and effective against Gai, since Enma in pole form is durable enough to withstand most of Gai's punches and kicks, with possible exception of Hirudora. Should Hiruzen and Gai come into a

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(with Gai using nunchuks) Enma can

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Second, what's stopping Danzo from using

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? Yes, it kills Danzo in the process but that doesn't matter since he has izanagi, and will just rewrite history so he takes no damage. Since the Enma pole can extend at will , Hiruzen will escape the AoE of the blast by "pole vaulting" himself out of the way. A combo of Danzo and Hiruzen is for Danzo to begin to use his suicide technique, and Hiruzen using the Enma pole to push Danzo at the opponent so Danzo is at point-blank range and either Gai or Kakashi will certainly be caught in the blast. Enma can also push Baku at the opponent or into an advantageous position so that Kakashi and Gai get sucked in.

Hiruzen and Danzo have another combo attack that could very well be useful in this battle. Danzo uses his shunshin

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to quickly get close to an opponent and lock them in close combat (Danzo is deadly in close combat with his speed, sharingan precog, and can use kenjutsu with his fuuton chakra blade). This achieves two things: it distracts the opponent and prevents them from weaving hand seals since they are locked in close combat with Danzo (though this second one only applies to Kakashi since Gai doesn't use hand seals.) While they are distracted, Hiruzen wipes both Danzo and his opponent out with a large-scale elemental attack, maybe a fire or a lightning one. Danzo will simply respawn due to izanagi, whereas Gai or Kakashi will die for real.

Hiruzen and Danzo naturally have the advantage in this battle since they have their individual powerful summons which can be used as distractions or in combo attacks, increasing the number of teammates. I personally would give it to them high difficulty.




Exactly why I have that restriction in the first place. Don't want Danzo to neg them or else this matchup isn't debatable. Same reason KA is restricted. Whoops, just saw that I didn't restrict Reaper Death Seal. Otherwise Hiruzen sacrifices himself to kill Gai and then Danzo stomps Kakashi. Better edit that.

@EjBlack, Kakashi somehow spat out a suiton in that scan despite wearing a mask over his mouth...dat Kishi logic...

bold: wtf are you talking about gai would destroy hiruzen and enma in taijutsu and kinjutsu with twin fangs, plus if he where to go even 5th gate, the one that fought a kuyubi clone in that filler! hed be killing hiruzen and that staff giving him no time to use seals or defend properly

 

[Yocolaw]

They are many times when Obito was able to partially use chakra and body parts kept solid, while staying intangible. Regardless of the argument of interpretation, Obito made it clear on why he was impress of Fu, next page of the context

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I dont agree with your reasoning on why Gai will react to a surprise back stab. @Bold If your arguments are base on precaution steps, then sure, that works out.



Didn't deny anything here. Was making a point of the steps to make large scale Suiton for Kakashi's skill.



Yes they cancel out. What I was arguing that if the scaling of Danzo's was a problem, since bigger attack = stronger, then Danzo copies the bigger attacks and adjust them to his own techs.



They could dodge, as the fight will be a very difficult fight for each other. What mix attacks can Kakashi and Gai combine, in your premise?



Obviously you know I am going to post Hiruzen 5 element blast. The question is, what made you get to the conclusion that theses jutsu's are small compare to Guy's and Kakashi's ninjutsu?



The difference here is that Hiruzen can manipulating his Katon in a form of a dragon, to which can be manipulated much like Suiryūdan no Jutsu.

in the naruto ninja revolution game gai and kakashi uses a lightging hirudora witch will dessimate the old hags

 

[BenjerminGaye]

No sir. Morning Peacock is dwarfed by Hiruzen's fire blasts, combined with Danzos futon blasts. Not only is that technique way smaller than Hiruzens fire blasts but Danzo will be adding wind blasts which overpowers any regular water technique.

Based on feats wind is far from the best. Range wise it's weaker than fire and in cqc it's handled by lightening. The only thing it has going for it is being useful at all ranges. Water and wind have 0 elemental superiority/inferiority, so when it comes to that the only factor is scale.

Danzo and Hiruzen combining techniques is pure fanfiction. But I'll indulge you. No combination they can pull out their ass is stronger than Hirudora on its own. God forbid kakashi combines it with his water dragon/water vortex.

 

[Haizaki]

Lol I haven't even read that guys arguments. I merely check if you reply then I reply to you if I feel like it. I skipped everything else. How is it a "fact" that he rescued me? I only replied to what you posted about my post,not what you posted about his. You didn't ask me how chakra percentage works and I never needed to explain how because they aren't "combining " techniques into one. One is shooting fire and the other is shooting the wind which will increase fire and overpower any water move Kakashi has. They aren't fusing the techniques into one like you are assuming. Surely you don't believe Sasuke adjusted his chakra ratio perfectly to Baku when his fire became more powerful from its wind right!? The wind simply made his fire stronger that is all, no combining needed. Why!? Like I said, go read about how the natures work.

Once again, your assuming I didn't know Danzo can copy Hiruzens techniques perfectly all because I never said it but you never asked me if he could or any other thing related to that. I'm only replying to your post here. You're responding to me as if I'm EJ and using his arguments when in haven't even read them, nor have I qouted anything he said ( lol not sure because I didn't read his post's), and I think you're just upset you were wrong.

Just look here.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Combining technique requires an equal chakra ratio.

Anything other than them not combining would be countered with ease. Any Firestyle would be countered by by Kakashi's massive water style.

Never would Wind fuel Fire if the ratio isn't equal:

Spoiler

Amaterasu on the guard :

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Amaterasu after one strike of Temari's wind jutsu:

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It's clear you're wrong. If not, one won't be going through a lot to combine techniques with equal ratio when they can just shoot both techniques knowing one would fuel the other (According to you)

@bold,

- The wins sucks in things towards Baku. All it did was suck in the fire and not blow it away. The wind sucked it and drew it towards Baku.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

in the naruto ninja revolution game gai and kakashi uses a lightging hirudora witch will dessimate the old hags

The manga can't support that since the manga support Hirudora not being a chakra cannon. Therefore the manga can't support Hirodora mixing ratio's with chakra base attacks.

 

[EZQ]

Oh, this is war arc 3 tomoe kakashi? I missed that in the OP.

The team jonnin still wins, Hiruzen can't keep up with Gai on CQC, while Danzo, who has pretty good feats on CQC and Taijutsu, gets handled by kakashi, who has better CQC feats than Sasuke (who was slightly superior to Danzo on their fight)

Once Hiruzen gets wrecked by Gai, Danzo is alone against two Kage level shinobis...

 

[EZQ]

Oh, this is war arc 3 tomoe kakashi? I missed that in the OP.

The team jonnin still wins, Hiruzen can't keep up with Gai on CQC, while Danzo, who has pretty good feats on CQC and Taijutsu, gets handled by kakashi, who has better CQC feats than Sasuke (who was slightly superior to Danzo on their fight)

Once Hiruzen gets wrecked by Gai, Danzo is alone against two Kage level shinobis...

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Oh, this is war arc 3 tomoe kakashi? I missed that in the OP.

The team jonnin still wins, Hiruzen can't keep up with Gai on CQC, while Danzo, who has pretty good feats on CQC and Taijutsu, gets handled by kakashi, who has better CQC feats than Sasuke (who was slightly superior to Danzo on their fight)

Once Hiruzen gets wrecked by Gai, Danzo is alone against two Kage level shinobis...

Hiruzen can't keep up with either in cqc. Enma gets raped by raikiri, or Hiruzen gets kicked in the face by guy. Either way it's gonna be both vs danzo

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Hiruzen can't keep up with either in cqc. Enma gets raped by raikiri, or Hiruzen gets kicked in the face by guy. Either way it's gonna be both vs danzo

Hiruzen kept up with Orochimaru in part 1. And kept up with Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama against Juubi/Juubito. He may not be as fast as them but he is far from being slow character in comparison.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Hiruzen kept up with Orochimaru in part 1. And kept up with Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama against Juubi/Juubito. He may not be as fast as them but he is far from being slow character in comparison.

War ark kakashi is faster than oro by power scale alone, couple that with superior taijutsu and sharingan, maybe even throw in a gate and it means Hiruzen is getting murked in cqc.

 

[swirlyshark]

But op said Danzo starts without brace so guy will know about those sharigans

 

[Brother Numpsay]

War ark kakashi is faster than oro by power scale alone, couple that with superior taijutsu and sharingan, maybe even throw in a gate and it means Hiruzen is getting murked in cqc.

Orochimaru originally had superior speed then Kakashi. While there is no significant speed war arc Kakashi shows that would overwhelm both Orochiarmaru and Hiruzen. And doesn't change the recont Edo Hiruzen speed gain against Juubito, when comparing to Hashirama and Tobirama too.

Even so, Hiruzen doesn't have to win by fighting hard, he can win by fighting smart.