Current Orochimaru vs Current Kakashi

[Black Wolf]

Lel. Orochimaru who wasn't even looking at Kakashi, paralysed him with visions of death so he couldn't move and started to sweat massively. The only foe that withstood Killing Intent as shown in manga, was 9 tails.

And I guess you would agree that Kakashi can singlehandedly beat current Naruto and Sasuke at the same time, given he was casually ragdolling them around back in Part I? Yeah, sounds about right.

Lets ignore the fact that Kakashi has fought Itachi (who Orochimaru shit his pants against), Pain (pseudo-leader of Akatsuki), Obito (actual leader of Akatsuki), and a variety of other Akatsuki and top tier fighters and desperately cling to something that happened literally 500 chapters ago in manga time.

I commend you. Logic at its absolute finest.

Orochimaro has studied Ninjutsu all his life, do you really think he has not come across space time ninjutsu in his studies? and if so do you honestly believe he would let it pass without preparing at least a counteract for space time nin

I'll mimic you here:

Kakashi has copied Ninjutsu all his life, do you really think he has not come across counters to Orochimaru's counters of space time jutsu in his studies? And if so, do you honestly believe he would let it pass without preparing a countermeasure for Orochimaru's counter measure to space time jutsu?

Long story short, we can argue hypotheticals all day. I can sit here and think about what types of jutsu could be in Kakashi's 1000+ arsenal. You can think about what magical anti-Kamui jutsu Orochimaru has. It won't go anywhere, though - not in what is supposed to be an objective debate. I can't assume Kakashi has Katon and Futon techniques in his arsenal anymoreso than you can give Orochimaru counters to anything just because you think he might have it.

if you want manga facts, I already gave it to you, no offense but anyone who disregardes oro's knowledge in ninjutsu must either be shallow or ignorant, I'm not saying you are but you simply decided oro cant overcome kamui on the basis of your own speculation, not by manga facts - manga facts wouldnt rule out oro being capable of anything!

Except it isn't manga facts - its you speculating on an imaginary counter that Orochimaru might have. Manga facts are that Kakashi's Kamui outsped another Kamui user at point blank range despite the latter possessing full knowledge on aforementioned tactic. So even if we assume Orochimaru has a counter, he would have no opportunity to apply it; he'd be in block-land before he actually knows what happened.

heck he even found a way to control the reaper.

Heck, Kakashi even found a way to kill the strongest living entity in the Naruto-universe, his plans halted only due to the fact that an individual with the same exact technique as him stepped in to prevent him from doing so.

 

[Ψ Veritas Ψ]

It is, that was a little off-topic because I couldn't resist replying to someone who believed even Kakashi with Kamui wouldn't be able to handle it.

Someone? I'm not just someone mate, My dikc is smarter than your entire ancestors combined!

You are an Obvious fanboy, and I dont waste my time with Illogical, Emotional children without any Sign of Intelligence.

And I guess you would agree that Kakashi can singlehandedly beat current Naruto and Sasuke at the same time, given he was casually ragdolling them around back in Part I? Yeah, sounds about right.

Lets ignore the fact that Kakashi has fought Itachi (who Orochimaru shit his pants against), Pain (pseudo-leader of Akatsuki), Obito (actual leader of Akatsuki), and a variety of other Akatsuki and top tier fighters and desperately cling to something that happened literally 500 chapters ago in manga time.

I commend you. Logic at its absolute finest.



I'll mimic you here:

Kakashi has copied Ninjutsu all his life, do you really think he has not come across counters to Orochimaru's counters of space time jutsu in his studies? And if so, do you honestly believe he would let it pass without preparing a countermeasure for Orochimaru's counter measure to space time jutsu?

Long story short, we can argue hypotheticals all day. I can sit here and think about what types of jutsu could be in Kakashi's 1000+ arsenal. You can think about what magical anti-Kamui jutsu Orochimaru has. It won't go anywhere, though - not in what is supposed to be an objective debate. I can't assume Kakashi has Katon and Futon techniques in his arsenal anymoreso than you can give Orochimaru counters to anything just because you think he might have it.



Except it isn't manga facts - its you speculating on an imaginary counter that Orochimaru might have. Manga facts are that Kakashi's Kamui outsped another Kamui user at point blank range despite the latter possessing full knowledge on aforementioned tactic. So even if we assume Orochimaru has a counter, he would have no opportunity to apply it; he'd be in block-land before he actually knows what happened.



Heck, Kakashi even found a way to kill the strongest living entity in the Naruto-universe, his plans halted only due to the fact that an individual with the same exact technique as him stepped in to prevent him from doing so.

I Realize I did not give much to go on, Icould've writen a wall of text to further explain my argument, and I assure you I could counter everything you've stated here with facts, but I dont like writing a wall of text just to make you understand - I only write when its worth writing, you people should learn that about me.

Anyway the argument you gave about kakashi copying jutsus has nothing to do with what i stated, being a scientist who studies ninjutsu is entirely different from being a copycat.

I am almost certain Oro could counter kamui, its not a speculation, its an educated certainty.

but like i said, i dont like writing a wall of text.

 

[Takos]

Someone? I'm not just someone mate, My dikc is smarter than your entire ancestors combined!

Sorry, your what?

 

[Black Wolf]

I Realize I did not give much to go on, Icould've writen a wall of text to further explain my argument, and I assure you I could counter everything you've stated here with facts

I'm sure you can counter everything I stated, except it would all be unsubstantiated speculation. There is nothing in the manga that suggests Orochimaru has a counter to Kamui. There is nothing in the manga that suggests Orochimaru has the reactive feats necessary to even apply his imaginary counter to Kamui to begin with.

Anyway the argument you gave about kakashi copying jutsus has nothing to do with what i stated, being a scientist who studies ninjutsu is entirely different from being a copycat.

Its speculation in the same exact light as yours is. You cannot say that Orochimaru has an imaginary counter to Kamui anymoreso than I can say Kakashi can use Katon, Futon, and other random jutsu because he allegedly has 1000 jutsu at his disposal.

I am almost certain Oro could counter kamui, its not a speculation, its an educated certainty.

It is absolute speculation, borderline fan fiction. He has shown nothing to suggest he can, nor has the reflexive feats to even begin applying it if he did have a counter.

 

[Nattana]

It is absolute speculation, borderline fan fiction. He has shown nothing to suggest he can, nor has the reflexive feats to even begin applying it if he did have a counter.

Orochimaru can counter Kamui with Improved Shadow Clone.

 

[Black Wolf]

Orochimaru can counter Kamui with Improved Shadow Clone.

So forming Shadow Clones, which require hand seals, is now faster than space time jutsu that requires a stare. Kamui is arguably the fastest jutsu in the manga. It won't be outsped by Kage Bunshin.

Hell, Kakashi can warp both Orochimaru and his Kage Bunshin given he can now casually warp building-sized objects nigh instantly.

 

[Red Slayer]

orochimaru doesn't even need to look him to beat that guy(that fight already happened reread manga)

 

[Ψ Veritas Ψ]

I'm sure you can counter everything I stated, except it would all be unsubstantiated speculation. There is nothing in the manga that suggests Orochimaru has a counter to Kamui. There is nothing in the manga that suggests Orochimaru has the reactive feats necessary to even apply his imaginary counter to Kamui to begin with.



Its speculation in the same exact light as yours is. You cannot say that Orochimaru has an imaginary counter to Kamui anymoreso than I can say Kakashi can use Katon, Futon, and other random jutsu because he allegedly has 1000 jutsu at his disposal.



It is absolute speculation. He has shown nothing to suggest he can, nor has the reflexive feats to even begin applying it if he did have a counter.

I'm sure you can counter everything I stated, except it would all be unsubstantiated speculation.

Stopped reading at this line.

You have Zero knowledge of what counter argument I would present, and yet you dare say it would be Speculation, you are a hypocrite mate.

You wasted both our times with your nonesense, we're done here.

 

[Takos]

Indeed, why waste so much time when everything Time Lord wants to say can be said in one sentence?

"Orochimaru has a counter to Kamui because I think so."

There, much faster, isn't it?

 

[Black Wolf]

Stopped reading at this line, You have Zero knowledge of what counter argument I would present, and yet you dare say it would be Speculation, you are a hypocrite mate.

Of course it would be speculation.

You have already presented your primary argument to Orochimaru's magical Kamui counter here:

Orochimaro has studied Ninjutsu all his life, do you really think he has not come across space time ninjutsu in his studies? and if so do you honestly believe he would let it pass without preparing at least a counteract for space time nin

In other words, you have nothing solid other than:

"Orochimaru has studied Ninjutsu, thus can magically counter anything he comes across."

How is this any different than me saying:

"Kakashi can use Futon, Katon, and any jutsu we have seen in the manga because he has 1000 jutsu in his arsenal and there is a chance that the jutsu we have seen in the manga are in his arsenal."

Neither have any basis whatsoever. Both are fanfiction culminating from a preset bias.

 

[Black Wolf]

orochimaru doesn't even need to look him to beat that guy(that fight already happened reread manga)

Kakashi > Naruto + Sasuke > Sasuke > Orochimaru.

Logic at its finest, amirite?

 

[Nattana]

So forming Shadow Clones, which require hand seals, is now faster than space time jutsu that requires a stare. Kamui is arguably the fastest jutsu in the manga. It won't be outsped by Kage Bunshin.

Hell, Kakashi can warp both Orochimaru and his Kage Bunshin given he can now casually warp building-sized objects nigh instantly.

IMPROVED Shadow Clone.

 

[Black Wolf]

IMPROVED Shadow Clone.

What's an improved Shadow Clone supposed to be?

 

[Nattana]

What's an improved Shadow Clone supposed to be?

Improved Shadow Clone is a feat known to Orochimaru only. It lets him substitute himself with a Clone after, during or before he gets hit with an attack, thereby freeing him from any restraint or anything that would pose harm to his body. It doesn't require any hand seal and is as fast as a blink of an eye

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,

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.

 

[Black Wolf]

Improved Shadow Clone is a feat known to Orochimaru only. It lets him substitute himself with a Clone after, during or before he gets hit with an attack, thereby freeing him from any restraint or anything that would pose harm to his body. It doesn't require any hand seal and is as fast as a blink of an eye

You must be registered for see links

,

You must be registered for see links

.

Evidence that he didn't set it up before hand. That is just a regular shadow clone.

 

[Nattana]

Evidence that he didn't set it up before hand. That is just a regular shadow clone.

He didn't. On the second scan you can see a wound from the kunai strike on his hand.

 

[BlacLord™]

Kakashi.

Taking away Oro's immortality is a lot worse than taking away Kakashi's Kamui, especially in these circumstances.

With Orochimaru losing his special techs, he doesn't gain anything in return whereas Kakashi losing Kamui means he has a lot more chakra at his disposal and a large set of possibilities. With Current Orochimaru not being at full strength, taking away his immortality makes him more vulnerable, more so considering that the experience gained by Kakashi and the constant pushing of his limits has extended his chakra pool considerably since Part 1.

All in all, Orochimaru being durable isn't much of a consolation when Raikiri cuts through V2 Bijuu tails like a knife to butter.

 

[BlacLord™]

Exactement. T'as tout dit

J'espère qu'oui!

 

[Black Wolf]

He didn't. On the second scan you can see a wound from the kunai strike on his hand.

Or it is just an art inconsistency, just like how Kakashi's head band changed numerous times during the war and how his chest injuries appeared and disappeared. The fact that we never see this again despite how useful it may have been builds upon this. So one can say Kakashi ran all the way back to Konoha, swapped his head band, and came back to the battlefield before anyone noticed and Kakashi has on and off Byakugo that even heals his clothes.

I'll take art inconsistency any day over implications that Orochimaru has what you are basically implying is Hiraishin.

 

[Takos]

Or it is just an art inconsistency, just like how Kakashi's head band changed numerous times during the war and how his chest injuries appeared and disappeared. The fact that we never see this again despite how useful it may have been builds upon this. So one can say Kakashi ran all the way back to Konoha, swapped his head band, and came back to the battlefield before anyone noticed and Kakashi has on and off Byakugo that even heals his clothes.

I'll take art inconsistency any day over implications that Orochimaru has what you are basically implying is Hiraishin.

This all the way.