[VS] Cracker>Doflamingo

[TRE MERCER]

Yes.. I already did actually.. it's you who can't prove me wrong...

Show me the manga scan of Luffy's KKG not putting Doffy to sleep.. and I'll show you the manga scan where it does..

Luffy uses KKG and hits DD clone. KKG isn't hard to counter especially if DD uses his DF awaken since he can make clones from the enviorment which will completely trick/fool Luffy once all the clones are on the BF Luffy won't be hitting the real Doflamingo. Also he'll be getting attacked by strings as well.

End result. DF awaken plus clones and string attacks= G4 running out of time. Luffy won't have Dressrosa to back him up this time so he loses badly.

 

[LBeezy]

Nope. Haki is directly related to energy, as we see that losing his Haki drained Luffy of his energy. It stands to reason that regaining stamina would therefore allow him to regain his Haki, so eating would let him regain it. This is even highly evident by the fact that Luffy couldn't move while his Haki was drained, but once he got it back, he was able to stand up and fight again. And if Luffy can regain enough Haki to go Gear 4th in only ten minutes of resting, why would the much less Haki he used in the tournament not be regained during the period between ending his block and reaching the balance, where he didn't use Haki and didn't exert himself in any substantial way?


There is zero evidence that one King Kong Gun alone would knock out Doflamingo at 100%. When Doflamingo was knocked out, he had Gamma Knife, Injection Shot, Red Hawk, Jet Stamp, the entire Gear Fourth assault, and THEN King Kong Gun. All of this collectively weakened him into being knocked out, not KKG alone.


One Piece doesn't work this way.


Not how it works, as explained above.

1/1 is 100%.

So far in the story, KKG puts Doffy to sleep 100% of the time.

Nothing indicates that it won't.

Luffy uses KKG and hits DD clone. KKG isn't hard to counter especially if DD uses his DF awaken since he can make clones from the enviorment which will completely trick/fool Luffy once all the clones are on the BF Luffy won't be hitting the real Doflamingo. Also he'll be getting attacked by strings as well.

End result. DF awaken plus clones and string attacks= G4 running out of time. Luffy won't have Dressrosa to back him up this time so he loses badly.

Manga scan?

No?

That's something that came from your imagination.. in my imagination I can say Luffy speed blitz's every clone and knocks out the real Doflamingo in the knick of time.

See how that works?

 

[OG sama]

1. It just shows that Doffy has better durability.
2. I never said Doffy wasn't stronger than Dressrosa Luffy.

It shows that he has better durability than a Base Luffy. Why are people forgetting that Luffys strongest form(G4) is also his most durable form?

 

[Bogard]

Hopefully we get a clearer picture in 2days

 

[-Akuma-]

Once again we see a new character and people are already jumping the damn gun.

 

[OG sama]

Hopefully we get a clearer picture in 2days

With the Doflamingo wankers on this base it wont matter. In order for Cracker to prove he's better than DD to the wankers he'll have to withstand GK and then KKG.When in reality we know that ain't happening because Law isnt here.

This is terrible logic honestly because eventually Luffys going to beat someone on his own, are we going to neglect how much damage a new technique could do? What if he developed a KKG Gatling, he still going to be weaker than DD cause law didn't help?

Chapter probably won't solve anything to some on here.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

If luffy is able to regain all the haki that fuels g4 in 10 minutes then the little bits that he used pre the fight had more than enough time to regenerate.

 

[Punk Hazard]

With the Doflamingo wankers on this base it wont matter. In order for Cracker to prove he's better than DD to the wankers he'll have to withstand GK and then KKG.When in reality we know that ain't happening because Law isnt here.

This is terrible logic honestly because eventually Luffys going to beat someone on his own, are we going to neglect how much damage a new technique could do? What if he developed a KKG Gatling, he still going to be weaker than DD cause law didn't help?

Chapter probably won't solve anything to some on here.

You say this like it's the fault of the readers that we never saw Doflamingo at his maximum capabilities and is thus inconclusive.

 

[Bogard]

With the Doflamingo wankers on this base it wont matter. In order for Cracker to prove he's better than DD to the wankers he'll have to withstand GK and then KKG.When in reality we know that ain't happening because Law isnt here.

This is terrible logic honestly because eventually Luffys going to beat someone on his own, are we going to neglect how much damage a new technique could do? What if he developed a KKG Gatling, he still going to be weaker than DD cause law didn't help?

Chapter probably won't solve anything to some on here.

Depends on how the fight will go. I already know the approach i'd take to judge Cracker comparatively to Doflamingo depending on the turn of events(assuming it doesn't get off-paneled). Though to your actual point, the one i'm almost sure not to convince are the likes of Riker and it's not like i care about convincing a Doffy wanker if i get a clearer picture for myself to decide

 

[OG sama]

You say this like it's the fault of the readers that we never saw Doflamingo at his maximum capabilities and is thus inconclusive.

Never saw him at max wtf? What you see is what you get son, you expecting DD to be MV again? What you saw was his Max, he was only weakened physically, but hes not a physical fighter he fights with strings.

Sounds like you and the rest of the wankers are making up how strong you wish he was rather than how strong he really is.

 

[sravan]

I will wait for the fight.
Going on hype cracker is already leagues apart from doffy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Never saw him at max wtf? What you see is what you get son, you expecting DD to be MV again? What you saw was his Max, he was only weakened physically, but hes not a physical fighter he fights with strings.

Sounds like you and the rest of the wankers are making up how strong you wish he was rather than how strong he really is.

Doflamingo isn't a physical fighter? His main style of offense is rushing into close quarters and using Haki+String to enhance his kicks. It wasn't until Awakening that he started to keep at a distance.

What we saw was Doflamingo at fluctuating levels of power. He went from his weak-ass clone swatting away Gear 2 punches to being unable to stop himself from being clocked by Base Luffy. He went from noticing a Jet Gatling coming with enough time to block with Buso to being unable to notice the Eagle Bazooka until it was his chest. And then a few pages later, he dodges Eagle Bazooka without any trouble, noticing it from a mile away. He went from being blitzed by Gear 4th to blitzing Gear 4th. His power was clearly inconsistent and uneven throughout the fight because of the combined damage of everything. Oda made an effort multiple times to attribute Doflamingo's loss to being a joint effort, having Luffy give credit to Law's Gamma Knife twice, to giving Law and Luffy the same bounties as a result of the Dressrosa arc.

It's a fact that we never saw Doflamingo fight at 100% with 100% effort, but that doesn't mean Oda won't be able to portray Cracker as superior in upcoming chapters.

Depends on how the fight will go. I already know the approach i'd take to judge Cracker comparatively to Doflamingo depending on the turn of events(assuming it doesn't get off-paneled). Though to your actual point, the one i'm almost sure not to convince are the likes of Riker and it's not like i care about convincing a Doffy wanker if i get a clearer picture for myself to decide

Just because you've never produced a good enough argument to sway my outlooks doesn't mean it won't change if someone who is good enough to presents good enough evidence or if the manga indicates that beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[OG sama]

Depends on how the fight will go. I already know the approach i'd take to judge Cracker comparatively to Doflamingo depending on the turn of events(assuming it doesn't get off-paneled). Though to your actual point, the one i'm almost sure not to convince are the likes of Riker and it's not like i care about convincing a Doffy wanker if i get a clearer picture for myself to decide

Agreed, honestly I could care less who's stronger, if feats are shown im going to judge as un biased as I can. I'm just getting tired of this Stronger than Luffy, weaker than Doflamingo logic they use around here. Every new Top Yonko commander has to be weaker than him for no reason.

I try to explain how its possible Cracker could be stronger, at the end of the day, I'm not the author, Oda is and if he wants they can be weaker than Doflamingo.

Thanks.

 

[ToshiZO]

I will wait for the fight.
Going on hype cracker is already leagues apart from doffy.

Going on hype, Don Chinjao had the second highest bounty to date (sound familiar?)
Going on hype, Don Chinjao had continental level attacks.
Going on hype, Don Chinjao had the rare Conquerors haki
Going on hype, Don Chinjao clashed with Prime Garp.

Where did that take Chinjao? Where is Chinjao now?

That's why I keep saying, give it time. Chinjao and Cracker appeared about the same time in their respective arcs as well.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Going on hype, Don Chinjao had the second highest bounty to date (sound familiar?)
Going on hype, Don Chinjao had continental level attacks.
Going on hype, Don Chinjao had the rare Conquerors haki
Going on hype, Don Chinjao clashed with Prime Garp.

Where did that take Chinjao? Where is Chinjao now?

That's why I keep saying, give it time. Chinjao and Cracker appeared about the same time in their respective arcs as well.

Bad comparison. Old Chinjao was much weaker than he was in his prime.

 

[ToshiZO]

Bad comparison. Old Chinjao was much weaker than he was in his prime.

And thats exactly my point? How were we supposed to know Old Chinjao was a complete bum. Garp is weaker than his prime self, Rayleigh is weaker than his prime self, WB was weaker than his prime self, did they turn out to be bums? No, they were still top tiers, which means Chinjao wasn't that big a deal to begin with AND/OR he fell off the hardest.

And now looking at how low a 500 mil bounty is in the grand scheme of things, yes Chinjao was not as big a deal he was initially introduced as, even in his prime.

 

[OG sama]

Doflamingo isn't a physical fighter? His main style of offense is rushing into close quarters and using Haki+String to enhance his kicks. It wasn't until Awakening that he started to keep at a distance.

What we saw was Doflamingo at fluctuating levels of power. He went from his weak-ass clone swatting away Gear 2 punches to being unable to stop himself from being clocked by Base Luffy. He went from noticing a Jet Gatling coming with enough time to block with Buso to being unable to notice the Eagle Bazooka until it was his chest. And then a few pages later, he dodges Eagle Bazooka without any trouble, noticing it from a mile away. He went from being blitzed by Gear 4th to blitzing Gear 4th. His power was clearly inconsistent and uneven throughout the fight because of the combined damage of everything. Oda made an effort multiple times to attribute Doflamingo's loss to being a joint effort, having Luffy give credit to Law's Gamma Knife twice, to giving Law and Luffy the same bounties as a result of the Dressrosa arc.

It's a fact that we never saw Doflamingo fight at 100% with 100% effort, but that doesn't mean Oda won't be able to portray Cracker as superior in upcoming chapters.



Just because you've never produced a good enough argument to sway my outlooks doesn't mean it won't change if someone who is good enough to presents good enough evidence or if the manga indicates that beyond a reasonable doubt.

The only thing injured on Doflamingo was his organs, that he was actually stitching up and not tanking anyway. And are you serious? You bring up one time DD managed to outmaneuver a G4 attack and don't even bring up the fact that he was getting Blitzed 99% of the time? And then you bring up that weak ass clone that Luffy eventually defeated with a gatling or jet Gatling? Same clone that got one shotted by Abdullah and Jeet? GTFO with that shit.

What we saw was what we needed to see and that was G4 being clearly too strong and too fast for Doflamingo. You can Nitpick and say if he was healthy all you want but where Is your proof he would do this or that? He demonstrated all he had on DR.

His Haki nor his strings got any weaker, the only injured body part was his organs. He had no problem moving or fighting.

All you really need to know from the fight right here: Healthy Doflamingo doesnt have a single damn counter to G4, he's at the forms mercy until it runs out, that's fact.

 

[OG sama]

And thats exactly my point? How were we supposed to know Old Chinjao was a complete bum. Garp is weaker than his prime self, Rayleigh is weaker than his prime self, WB was weaker than his prime self, did they turn out to be bums? No, they were still top tiers, which means Chinjao wasn't that big a deal to begin with AND/OR he fell off the hardest.

And now looking at how low a 500 mil bounty is in the grand scheme of things, yes Chinjao was not as big a deal he was initially introduced as, even in his prime.

Except this is a Yonko Top 3 commander, not some old ass man. Cracker should be the Marco/Jozu/Vista equivalent of the Big Mom pirates.

 

[Bogard]

Just because you've never produced a good enough argument to sway my outlooks doesn't mean it won't change if someone who is good enough to presents good enough evidence or if the manga indicates that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Do you know the expression "never argue with an idiot. they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"? Trying to engage in another endless argument uh? Sorry, i don't have time for this right now

 

[Punk Hazard]

The only thing injured on Doflamingo was his organs, that he was actually stitching up and not tanking anyway.

You're right. It was only his organs. Just his organs, what was I thinking? It's not like organs are vital and very vulnerable and damage to them can result in a lot of pain.

Doflamingo stitching up the organs wouldn't remove the damage and pain they are in, that would just prevent further bleeding and restore function. They'd still be bruised and he'd still be in immense pain, plus the pain that comes from moving strings through his organs and forcing them back together with no anesthetics.

And are you serious? You bring up one time DD managed to outmaneuver a G4 attack and don't even bring up the fact that he was getting Blitzed 99% of the time?

This just shows to me that you're missing the point. The fact that at one point he can outmaneuver and blitz Gear Fourth and then get blitzed by it at another point shows the inconsistency and fluctuations on his fighting abilities during that fight.

And then you bring up that weak ass clone that Luffy eventually defeated with a gatling or jet Gatling? Same clone that got one shotted by Abdullah and Jeet? GTFO with that shit.

I...I called the clone weak...what are you arguing against here? This just proves my point more. That same clone that got one-shotted by fodder was able to casually swat a Gear Second attack, which has been portrayed as not that strong anymore(Gladius took a Jet Stamp and was fine; a fodder Fishman took a Gear second attack and was fine; Gear Second was unable to injure Mingo), and then Doflamingo was unable to react to it at one point is another testament that his strength was dipping and rising.

What we saw was what we needed to see and that was G4 being clearly too strong and too fast for Doflamingo. You can Nitpick and say if he was healthy all you want but where Is your proof he would do this or that? He demonstrated all he had on DR.

I said there are no indications on Doffy's max strength. The fact that Gear Fourth couldn't put him down implies that at his max it would still fail, but that's all we have to go on. All we know is that Gear Fourth couldn't put down a weakened Doflamingo. We don't know how much damage he could do at max to Luffy, or how much longer he'd last. Hence why I said his max is inconclusive.

His Haki nor his strings got any weaker, the only injured body part was his organs. He had no problem moving or fighting.

You think having bruised and damaged organs wouldn't give you problems moving and fighting? El oh el. We have seen that injuries affect Haki. Whitebeard was unable to use his Haoshoku Haki because his heart gave him trouble. We've seen that Haki is directly correlated to physical energy, as Luffy was unable to move when his Haki was drained and regained the ability to move when it was regenerated. It's highly Doflamingo's Haki was weakened with his body.

Healthy Doflamingo doesnt have a single damn counter to G4, he's at the forms mercy until it runs out, that's fact.

Outlasts it, kills Luffy while he can't move. Luffy might have more brute offensive power, but Doflamingo being able to withstand it until Luffy is at his mercy is what makes him overall stronger.

Do you know the expression "never argue with an idiot. they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"? Trying to engage in another endless argument uh? Sorry, i don't have time for this right now

Nice ad hominem. I'm sure that and "I don't have time" are better than actual arguments for you. If you can't actually refute what I'm saying here, why bother replying? Just save yourself the embarrassment.