[VS] Cracker>Doflamingo

[LBeezy]

Then you are simply not staying consistent with the argument. If you want to give G4 more strength, then you have to give Doflamingo more strength defense wise which once again evens it out.

And nothing indicates King Kong Gun alone is enough to take down Doflamingo, by that time Doflamingo had eaten countless powerful attacks.

To make your arguments you have to do more assuming, to make mine I am using significantly less assumptions and more of what was actually shown. If you follow a simple Occam's razor, then you have no argument.

I was trying to be as respectful as possible and not sound too bias.. but the truth is all I needed to say was

even if he can last longer, that doesn't change the fact that the last attack Luffy did will still put Doffy to sleep 10 out of 10 times.

Because that isnt an assumption in any way.. if it's like you say... then that is something that was actually shown in the manga.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Let's break this down fr fr. The Luffy and Doflamingo fight can only fall under one of three categories:

1. 100% Doflamingo is stronger than 100% Luffy.

2. 100% Doflamingo is equal to 100% Luffy.

3. 100% Doflamingo is weaker than 100% Luffy.

Let's take a look at what each of these scenarios imply for the canon.

1. If Luffy is stronger than Doflamino with both at 100% and was unable to finish off Doflamingo when both were weakened, that would mean Luffy took more damage than Doflamingo did because he was reduced to a state of inferior health and ability than Doffy(Doffy outlasted him).

If Luffy took more damage than Doflamingo did, then that would mean that Bellamy's assault on him was greater than Gamma Knife. That would mean that Bellamy's assault on Doflamingo would push him closer to death than Gamma Knife did.

2. If Doflamingo and Luffy are equal in power, then it means Luffy still took greater damage, as he was rendered in a state of inferior ability due to Doffy outlasting him. Basically the same as above.

3. If Luffy was weaker than Doflamingo when they were both at 100%, then that means Bellamy's assault could be anywhere between weaker and stronger than Gamma Knife. This makes this scenario the most likely one, as Bellamy is definitely ain't as strong as Law's strongest attack.

 

[ToshiZO]

I was trying to be as respectful as possible and not sound too bias.. but the truth is all I needed to say was



Because that isnt an assumption in any way.. if it's like you say... then that is something that was actually shown in the manga.

Why am I to believe that to be true? When in the manga Luffy used that after a combination of attacks of his own and Law's?

No proof behind that claim, and the logic behind it isn't there either.

 

[OG sama]

Let's break this down fr fr. The Luffy and Doflamingo fight can only fall under one of three categories:

1. 100% Doflamingo is stronger than 100% Luffy.

2. 100% Doflamingo is equal to 100% Luffy.

3. 100% Doflamingo is weaker than 100% Luffy.

Let's take a look at what each of these scenarios imply for the canon.

1. If Luffy is stronger than Doflamino with both at 100% and was unable to finish off Doflamingo when both were weakened, that would mean Luffy took more damage than Doflamingo did because he was reduced to a state of inferior health and ability than Doffy(Doffy outlasted him).

If Luffy took more damage than Doflamingo did, then that would mean that Bellamy's assault on him was greater than Gamma Knife. That would mean that Bellamy's assault on Doflamingo would push him closer to death than Gamma Knife did.

2. If Doflamingo and Luffy are equal in power, then it means Luffy still took greater damage, as he was rendered in a state of inferior ability due to Doffy outlasting him. Basically the same as above.

3. If Luffy was weaker than Doflamingo when they were both at 100%, then that means Bellamy's assault could be anywhere between weaker and stronger than Gamma Knife. This makes this scenario the most likely one, as Bellamy is definitely ain't as strong as Law's strongest attack.

Well Luffy was in his base form + some Haki when he was harmed by Bellamy, we know G4 is much more durable, and we know Base Luffy ain't even a match for Doflamingo because not even G2 could hurt him.

Its not unlikely for Luffy to be in a similarly weakened state as Doflamingo when you consider Luffy wasn't in his most durable and powerful state when he let Bellamy pound him.

 

[TRE MERCER]

G4 wasn't at it's max capacity either...

Based off what? The only person that Luffy fought prior to DD that was even close to a match was Chinjo and not really since he ended him with 1 G3 punch.

 

[TRE MERCER]

To anybody going on about "Doflamingo outlasting Gear 4th" ... Luffy didn't use King Kong Gun the first time, you simpletons :| You know, that attack that OHKO'd him neg diff (in manga)??? Remember??? Still think he'd outlast Boundman if Luffy used it the first time around? Cuz like.. He wouldn't, and you're kidding yourself if you say otherwise.

Luffy > Doflamingo

That's it.

What stops DD from dodging or completely covering his body in strings to tank it? Also what makes you think a healthy DD would be knocked out from that? Luffy didn't take any damage to anyone outside of DD so trying to use the argument that Luffy was weakened to is completely BS.

 

[JDtheAlchemist]

What stops DD from dodging or completely covering his body in strings to tank it? Also what makes you think a healthy DD would be knocked out from that? Luffy didn't take any damage to anyone outside of DD so trying to use the argument that Luffy was weakened to is completely BS.

LMAO my dude, you're acting like Luffy was fresh and as if he didn't just get out of a battle royale style tournament and let Bellamy kick the s**t out of him for a while literal seconds before fighting DD. Doflamingo was only given more time to recover when Luffy was gassed for 10 mins. The KKG he used to beat Doffy took the absolute last of his strength he could muster. Luffy was FAR from fresh at that point of the fight. And your argument about the string shield is just stupid because KKG smashed right through his spider web + his most powerful attack EFFORTLESSLY. And stop with the "he could dodge it" BS. Just stop. Because yeah, no s**t he could dodge.. Any character could dodge any attack, that is irrelevant. King Kong Gun puts Mingo to sleep. End of story.

 

[TRE MERCER]

LMAO my dude, you're acting like Luffy was fresh and as if he didn't just get out of a battle royale style tournament and let Bellamy kick the s**t out of him for a while literal seconds before fighting DD. Doflamingo was only given more time to recover when Luffy was gassed for 10 mins. The KKG he used to beat Doffy took the absolute last of his strength he could muster. Luffy was FAR from fresh at that point of the fight. And your argument about the string shield is just stupid because KKG smashed right through his spider web + his most powerful attack EFFORTLESSLY. And stop with the "he could dodge it" BS. Just stop. Because yeah, no s**t he could dodge.. Any character could dodge any attack, that is irrelevant. King Kong Gun puts Mingo to sleep. End of story.

Seems like rambling not actually trying to counter any arguments. DD beats Luffy with a classical Naruto move.... Clone. Luffy if going by what your saying goes for KKG and hits DD to later find out it was a string clone. Once he's down DD proceeds to slice him to pieces. This shouldn't be debated at all DD beats Luffy.

Then there's the fact that he literally can turn his surrounding into strings which means he could make multiple clones which means Luffy is stomped even harder.

Just face the facts feats puts DD above Luffy even if they both start off healthy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

LMAO my dude, you're acting like Luffy was fresh and as if he didn't just get out of a battle royale style tournament and let Bellamy kick the s**t out of him for a while literal seconds before fighting DD. Doflamingo was only given more time to recover when Luffy was gassed for 10 mins. The KKG he used to beat Doffy took the absolute last of his strength he could muster. Luffy was FAR from fresh at that point of the fight. And your argument about the string shield is just stupid because KKG smashed right through his spider web + his most powerful attack EFFORTLESSLY. And stop with the "he could dodge it" BS. Just stop. Because yeah, no s**t he could dodge.. Any character could dodge any attack, that is irrelevant. King Kong Gun puts Mingo to sleep. End of story.

The Colosseum doesn't matter. Luffy regained the energy he spent by eating after.

 

[JDtheAlchemist]

Seems like rambling not actually trying to counter any arguments. DD beats Luffy with a classical Naruto move.... Clone. Luffy if going by what your saying goes for KKG and hits DD to later find out it was a string clone. Once he's down DD proceeds to slice him to pieces. This shouldn't be debated at all DD beats Luffy.

Then there's the fact that he literally can turn his surrounding into strings which means he could make multiple clones which means Luffy is stomped even harder.

Just face the facts feats puts DD above Luffy even if they both start off healthy.

You're literally being ignorant and creating scenarios that didn't happen. You're just making yourself look dumb lol "what if Doffy creates a clone and then ties Luffy up." Yeah? Okay well WHAT IF Luffy used his rubber properties to rubber band DD to a building then hits him with KKG? See? I can make up dumb scenarios too

Let's stick to what actually happened. If Doflamingo could've beat Luffy, Doflamingo would've beat Luffy. What happened though? Dat King Kong Gun knocked your boy Doffy the f**k out. What is even being debated here? You're literally trying to make up scenarios that would be advantageous to DD like give it a rest, dude. GG

 

[JDtheAlchemist]

The Colosseum doesn't matter. Luffy regained the energy he spent by eating after.

Only valid point someone has countered one of my arguments with on this thread.

You are correct sir, I forgot that he ate in between. However he did still get beat up by Bellamy cuz he didn't want to hit him.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Only valid point someone has countered one of my arguments with on this thread.

You are correct sir, I forgot that he ate in between. However he did still get beat up by Bellamy cuz he didn't want to hit him.

And you think that assault from Bellamy=Law's Gamma Knife?

 

[LBeezy]

Why am I to believe that to be true? When in the manga Luffy used that after a combination of attacks of his own and Law's?

No proof behind that claim, and the logic behind it isn't there either.

The power behind that attack is able to knock out Doflamingo.

You don't have to believe it... but Oda put it in the manga bro.

Based off what? The only person that Luffy fought prior to DD that was even close to a match was Chinjo and not really since he ended him with 1 G3 punch.

Based off of an entire day of fighting and running around and then allowing someone you don't want to fight, beat up on you..

The Colosseum doesn't matter. Luffy regained the energy he spent by eating after.

Eating, (alone), will not put Luffy at 100%... (especially if it isnt one of his usual FEASTS/banquets at the end of an arc type of meal).. I mean of course it helps, thats for sure.. but its Eating and sleeping/rest is that would bring him (or anyone really) back to 100% though..

 

[LBeezy]

And you think that assault from Bellamy=Law's Gamma Knife?

Law's Gamma Knife is an amazingly strong attack... WAY stronger than Bellamy.. this is true..

But unfortunately Doflamingo is a character who was able to handle the damage better than most and used stirngs inside of his body to help himself not be too effected by it.

It's like Enel hitting Luffy with an attack.. then comparing that amount of damage to what another character did to someone else..

 

[ToshiZO]

The power behind that attack is able to knock out Doflamingo.

You don't have to believe it... but Oda put it in the manga bro.

The power behind that attack is enough to knock out Doflamingo after red hawk, injection shot, gamma knife, jet stamp, counter shock, Kong Gun, Rhino Schneider, Culverin, Leo Bazooka yea. You don't have to believe it...but Oda put it in the manga.

Law's Gamma Knife is an amazingly strong attack... WAY stronger than Bellamy.. this is true..

But unfortunately Doflamingo is a character who was able to handle the damage better than most and used stirngs inside of his body to help himself not be too effected by it.

It's like Enel hitting Luffy with an attack.. then comparing that amount of damage to what another character did to someone else..

Horrible analogy, Doflamingo simply survived the attack, doesn't mean he didn't take damage.

So did Leo Bazooka and every single G4 hit bar KKG do nothing to Doflamingo as well? Because he got up from those as well.

 

[chopstickchakra]

It's exactly what you think.. I personally believe, that Luffy with full health and stamina will be able to defeat Doflamingo.. I also feel as though the damage Law's Gamma Knife did, is overrated here on the Base..

Well then, with no offense intended, you're delusional on this matter. If they were at equal levels when Luffy was unable to beat Doffy 1v1 at DR then regardless what level it is if they are equal Luffy wouldn't be able to win. If Luffy can't beat him when they're both at 20 he can't beat him when they're both at 50 and he can't beat him when they're both at 100. You can deny it all you'd like but Luffy was in a better condition than Doffy when they began fighting 1 on 1(even if only marginally) and was still unable to finish him within his time limit. Nothing would change, the time limit would still expand before he could hit Doffy with an attack that would keep him down longer than Luffy's recoup time.

Law's Gamma Knife did a lot of damage and it's accurately reflected in the manga, you thinking it's overhyped is you trying to downplay it to justify the Luffy = Doffy damage received argument. GK ruptured an organ, Doffy only patched it he never fixed it so the entire fight the wound is reopening and being agitated.

 

[ToshiZO]

And LOL at the "Luffy running around on a bull" argument, to this day that argument cracks me up.

If we start going by dumb shit like that. Then Doflamingo flew all the way from Dressrosa to Punk Hazard, fought Smoker, broke out of Aokiji's ice which we saw put a strain on him, and fly all the way back to Dressrosa. Doing all that > What Luffy did prior to the fight. As it covers a much larger distance in a shorter period of time, not to mention breaking out of an Admiral level attack.

What about Sanji running from Dressrosa to Green Bit within an extremely short time frame. Don't see that being used as an excuse for poor Sanji. Nobody brings both these things up. You know why? Because it is a piss poor excuse plain and simple.

 

[TRE MERCER]

You're literally being ignorant and creating scenarios that didn't happen. You're just making yourself look dumb lol "what if Doffy creates a clone and then ties Luffy up." Yeah? Okay well WHAT IF Luffy used his rubber properties to rubber band DD to a building then hits him with KKG? See? I can make up dumb scenarios too :)

Im creating scenarios didn't happen because im saying that if it was a 1 on 1 which it wasn't then Doflamingo would have been able to do the things i said. Your acting like im saying he did these things in the manga. Luffy using his rubber band properties to rubber band DD is only possible if he's in Gear 4 but in the time it take him to get to G4 Doflamingo will already have had clones on the Battlefield. @BOLD how is Doflamingo using clones to trick Luffy a dumb scenario? It's logical and sets up for an easy way to outlast G4. Your just saying random things like Luffy rubber bands DD to a wall without even providing how he'll do it. You clearly can't debate so just quit.

Let's stick to what actually happened. If Doflamingo could've beat Luffy, Doflamingo would've beat Luffy. What happened though? Dat King Kong Gun knocked your boy Doffy the f**k out. What is even being debated here? You're literally trying to make up scenarios that would be advantageous to DD like give it a rest, dude. GG

Were talking about what would happen in a 1v1 fight while both of them are healthy which means Luffy wouldn't have the entire Dressrosa and the fighters backing him up.

Point still remains Doflamingo is stronger than Luffy. Luffy won but with the help of Law AND the ENTIRE Dressrosa plus the tournament fighters would Luffy have them if it were a 1 on 1 fight nope.

Based off of an entire day of fighting and running around and then allowing someone you don't want to fight, beat up on you..

Yes an entire day of fighting people who he literally one shotted. Those punches from Bellamy can't compare to the Gama knife so lay this nonsense to rest.

 

[TRE MERCER]

And LOL at the "Luffy running around on a bull" argument, to this day that argument cracks me up.

If we start going by dumb shit like that. Then Doflamingo flew all the way from Dressrosa to Punk Hazard, fought Smoker, broke out of Aokiji's ice which we saw put a strain on him, and fly all the way back to Dressrosa. Doing all that > What Luffy did prior to the fight. As it covers a much larger distance in a shorter period of time, not to mention breaking out of an Admiral level attack.

What about Sanji running from Dressrosa to Green Bit within an extremely short time frame. Nobody brings both these things up. You know why? Because it is a piss poor excuseplain and simple.

This. These clowns really think DD can lose to Luffy in a 1 on 1 fight is just insane.

 

[Jugram Haschwalth]

This shouldn't be up for Debate who would win in a 1 on 1 fight. Between Doflamingo or Cracker or Doflamingo or Luffy.

Put Cracker and Doflamingo's shoes and see if he ends up beating Luffy doubt. That would mean Cracker would have to go up against Luffy and Law once Law is out of the picture go up against G4 Luffy and survive then take attack from Dressrosa citizens and some of the colloseum fighters. While Luffy goes into G4 again. Then survive another G4 assault. All that is not needed to determine if he's stronger than Doflamingo or not the only thing that would be needed to determine that is how well he performs against G4 Luffy.

Doflamingo vs Luffy 1 on 1. Dolfamingo is stronger than Luffy only because of the time break in his G4 that's it. If they were to fight in a 1 on 1 Doflamingo would win no questions asked. We've already seen Doflamingo effortlessly stop G3 Luffy attacks. Which means Luffy only way of actually doing damage to Doflamingo in a 1 on 1 fight is G4 which is bad for Luffy since it's limited.

Same thing with the damage they've taken. If we reverse their roles Luffy would be on his death bed after taking what DD took. He'd have to fight Law then proceed to defeat Sanji then proceed to fight Law and have to actually put Law down then he'd have to take on a combination of Law and someone with a high bounty than Law. If Doflamingo were in Luffy shoes he's have to fight through block B. Fight Chinjo. Take hits from Bellamy then fight Luffy it's clear who had it harder out of the 2.