Chakra Control: Naruto or Sakura

[Troyg39]

Kurama modified the chakra so that could they could use, it notice in you're scan he praise Naruto's skill to be able to transform in to match others chakra type, KH points that all the feats are kurama's alone.

That is precisely KH's point. Kurama is the one that modifies, or "manipulates" his own chakra. Naruto doesn't do that. Again refer to both the diagram and Kurama's words. Kurama first modifies and links his chakra to Naruto's thus making it possible for Naruto to transfer Kurama's chakra along with his own. If Kurama doesn't first modify his chakra to blend perfectly with Naruto's, Naruto can not transfer Kurama's chakra to anyone. That's the reason why Kurama says that he is the one that is passing his chakra through Naruto. Kurama is handling his own chakra.

Again in the diagram you see that the kyuubi chakra is first blended by Kurama with Naruto's chakra, so that it natrually gets passed along with Naruto when Naruto does the delivery. KH is correct is saying that the Kyuubi chakra cloak chakra control feats are Kurama's feats and not Naruto's because Kurama manipulates his chakra for Naruto. Naruto doesn't mold Kurama's chakra to fit Naruto, Kurama molds Kurama's chakra to fit Naruto. So you can't consider that part of the manipulation Naruto's feat.

So yes you are right in saying that the ability to transfer chakra can be done by naruto without Kurama. But the ability to transfer kyuubi chakra can not. For Sakura, we know that while she may not be able to perfectly match her chakra and distribute it to other ninja like Naruto can, we do know that she can spread her chakra out to multiple ninja and heal them. We don't know what Naruto's chakra will do for ninja without Kurama's chakra infused with it. All feats shown so far were that based on Kurama's power. If Naruto transfers just his chakra alone, it may give them a boost in chakra and allow them to use it, but again, like I asked KH earlier, if the amount of chakra you can precisely control doesn't do much of anything, what good is it really? We don't know if Naruto's chakra alone gives other ninja any kind of boost, so we can't comment on it's effectiveness. We do know that Sakura's chakra can heal.

And that is basically everyone's point that is arguing against you. As long as the manga has never referred to any of Naruto's chakra control feats not pertaining to the help of Kurama as specifically chakra control feats, you'll never win against them. But hey you won on the polls so it's clear the people feel you are right. Now I'm not saying you are 100% wrong myself mind you. I still think that even if Sakura is better, it's not by as big of a difference as everyone is making it out to be. I'm just pointing out that in this particular situation, KH is correct according to the manga

 

[To Whatever]

the Kyuubi plays a huge part in Naruto's Chakra control.

The fact that Naruto needed 2 clones instead of 1 to make Rasenshuriken OUTSIDE of kyuubi mode shows this.

Rasenshuriken is more complicated than anything Sakura has done. They yin seal reuqires chakra to be focused on a single point. Just chakra, no affinities. Not to take away the fact that it requires great control to do what Sakura does.

Rasenshuriken requires making a rasengan and adding an element into it. Something that no one has done. Until someone forms a rasenshuriken, we will never know how easily it can be done without the help of clones.

While we can see that Tsunade can fill her yin seal up faster than Sakura and do better with it, all while maintaining her youthful look.

Naruto does rasenshuriken in Kyuubi mode using his chakra arms. Theres no need for clones.

 

[KingHashirama]

So correctly balancing white and dark chakra isn't chakra control?

I posted the original quote.. and you still didn't understand the fact it isn't a credit to a GREAT chakra control......

Red: No he wasn't The mouth has to open to form the TBB. If you look at this scan you can see Naruto making the same hand formation that he used when he matched the TBB's of the other 6 tailed beasts.

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Don't tell me you're blind or wanking Sakura that much.

Blue: Of course he cannot do it without Kurama's chakra. No one can form a TBB without using tailed beast chakra. So what the hell are you talking about?

Spoiler

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Even though Kurama was conquered, he was still being stingy with his chakra and wasn't TAMED. Bee and the 8 tails explained how Normally you'd have to negotiate to even get the black and white chakra to form a TBB and seeing how Kurama wasn't cooperating at the time, he would get his chakra stolen and die if he wasn't careful with the usage

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I'm getting tired of having to pull up so many scans

Green Also, Sasuke matching Naruto's ratio and vise versa, in no way, shape or form take away the fact that Naruto was using chakra control by maintaining the ratio with Sasuke, who in turn, was doing the same.

-Kurama had control of Naruto's body mate... hence why he is the one talking on the outside (In the scans i provided to counter the scan you provided again for some reason) and we can hear him talk. Otherwise it would be in the background as usual.

- And I guess you do have a point. I was confused on the whole thing so yea. Thanks for clearing it up. =D

- I never said it took away anything from Naruto. However, that was a feat of 2. If Sasuke didn't match Naruto's then Naruto would've been off.. and vice-versa.

Actually it was stated that it was Naruto who was controlling it. He was the one that molded Kurama's and his chakra together and then molded the chakra to match each individual in the alliance.

I never said it was someone else who was controlling it.. I stated the ability to control the kyuubi chakra cloaks is granted by the kyuubi..

Well Jiraiya must have even better chakra control since he went 1 finger to write on Pa toad's back

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. Also how is she using chakra to do anything when she's out of chakra? She only used it to cut Naruto chest and then enter his chest, yes it's keeping the blood from coming out but that's not really chakra control feat as chakra used to keep blood in which other medics would know how to do. Yin seal is still the pinnacle of her chakra control, can't be of everyone when Tsunade came and made her look like nothing when she healed Shikamaru.

Only confirmed chakra control Sakura has been said to have is précised chakra control while Naruto has 2 extremely advance chakra control plus he combined both. Yes chakra arms for KM/BM/BSM are chakra control, Naruto have to form the arms and Bee even started out saying that Naruto doesn't have control over the chakra

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. Naruto made 2 small hands then form a mini FRS, that's pretty Bad*** in chakra control. Naruto have more chakra control types which all are mastered or on a extremely high level.



There are forms of chakra control, Kakashi pretty much introduced most of them: Walking on Tree-http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/018/6 and

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, Walking on water-http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/090/11, Precision-http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/246/11, Shape manipulation and nature transformation

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.

- Yea.. having chakra on your fingers = making a knife out of the chakra.. niceeee. And if that is your logic then i guess Jiraiya is superior..

- Ohh I guess Shizune really knows about Sakura huh. Cause she never mentioned "Pinnacle of HER chakra control".. she only said "Pinnacle of chakra control".

- Lets see now, Part2 starting she was able to focus all her chakra in her body to 1 single point (Feat that Naruto can't do). She then was able take the poison out of Kankuro via chakra control on cellular level..... While she was doing all that she was putting aside half of her chakra into her forehead to form the seal..

- Wrong, those aren't forms of chakra control, those are the ways to train to be better in chakra control.


Ever wonder, why Sakura never had to train to control her chakra, while Naruto has? And Sasuke has?

 

[To Whatever]

I posted the original quote.. and you still didn't understand the fact it isn't a credit to a GREAT chakra control......


-Kurama had control of Naruto's body mate... hence why he is the one talking on the outside (In the scans i provided to counter the scan you provided again for some reason) and we can hear him talk. Otherwise it would be in the background as usual.

What scan are you talking about? The scan during the Multi TBB barrage? That was a thought, Kurama and the Eight tails were not saying it outloud. They used Kurama's shroud as a way to show how the 8 tails and Kurama reacted to the situation. Naruto was still the one fireing the TBB because he was forming the hands just like he did against the other 6 tails. There's literally no difference between those two scans other than Naruto firing off TBBs fast and Kurama and the 8 tails racting to the situation.

Plus if he was controlling Naruto, we'd see Kurama asking for control to do it Kurama cannot force is mind into Naruto without Naruto's agreement. They didn't show that happening therefore you're just speculating again.

Even then, I honestly believe those are Killer Bee's and Naruto's thoughts especially considerng the fact that Naruto and Killer Bee used thier tails to block the Chakra beams

 

[Joshutsu]

So what are you saying now chakra transfer doesn't require moulding and manipulation now =D? lol really so the the chakra just automatically match the recipient? You dont say

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Btw the way Chakra Transfer Technique is a ninjutsu :yeah:.

I didn't say it's automatic, read my posst for a change ._. i said it was solely transformation and he is giving that transformed chakra to someone. He isn't performing jutsu with it so chakra control was not mentioned only the aspect of chakra transformation. The panels tel lthe story.


It is a ninjutsu, what is it's purpose? To give chakra to someone else, to do what? Perform jutsu and such. It's not ninjutsu like others. It's simply the act of passing your chakra to someone and in this act try to match it as closely to the recipients chakra so they can use it more effectively. Kishimoto obviously recognised this when he said it was transformation of chakra alone. I don't know what else to really tell you.

 

[KingHashirama]

What scan are you talking about? The scan during the Multi TBB barrage? That was a thought, Kurama and the Eight tails were not saying it outloud. They used Kurama's shroud as a way to show how the 8 tails and Kurama reacted to the situation. Naruto was still the one fireing the TBB because he was forming the hands just like he did against the other 6 tails. There's literally no difference between those two scans other than Naruto firing off TBBs fast and Kurama and the 8 tails racting to the situation.

Plus if he was controlling Naruto, we'd see Kurama asking for control to do it Kurama cannot force is mind into Naruto without Naruto's agreement. They didn't show that happening therefore you're just speculating again.

Ok let me do this chronological order.

But some points I want to make clear before that:

- no they can switch anytime they want, just like Killer B and Hachibi we have never seen them "switch".. but they always do instantly, without the reader even noticing until one of them talks.

- When Naruto is the one encharge, Kyuubi cannot speak on the outside. And Kyuubi himself can control Naruto's body.


Kurama and Gyuki both talk to each other here on the outside, meaning kurama is the one who is en-charge here:

Spoiler

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Kurama is then giving the orders on what to do , and establishes the plan:

Spoiler

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Here you see both Kurama and Gyuuki thinking the same thing:

Spoiler

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Here we see again that Kurama is still the main one talking with the BM body.

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I didn't say it's automatic, read my posst for a change ._. i said it was solely transformation and he is giving that transformed chakra to someone. He isn't performing jutsu with it so chakra control was not mentioned only the aspect of chakra transformation. The panels tel lthe story.


It is a ninjutsu, what is it's purpose? To give chakra to someone else, to do what? Perform jutsu and such. It's not ninjutsu like others. It's simply the act of passing your chakra to someone and in this act try to match it as closely to the recipients chakra so they can use it more effectively. Kishimoto obviously recognised this when he said it was transformation of chakra alone. I don't know what else to really tell you.

Its not really even a ninjutsu. Its classified as a ninjutsu by the wikia.

 

[~Sky~]

I posted the original quote.. and you still didn't understand the fact it isn't a credit to a GREAT chakra control......

How is it not great?

 

[To Whatever]

Ok let me do this chronological order.

But some points I want to make clear before that:

- no they can switch anytime they want, just like Killer B and Hachibi we have never seen them "switch".. but they always do instantly, without the reader even noticing until one of them talks.

- When Naruto is the one encharge, Kyuubi cannot speak on the outside. And Kyuubi himself can control Naruto's body.


Kurama and Gyuki both talk to each other here on the outside, meaning kurama is the one who is en-charge here:

Spoiler

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Kurama is then giving the orders on what to do , and establishes the plan:

Spoiler

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Here you see both Kurama and Gyuuki thinking the same thing:

Spoiler

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Here we see again that Kurama is still the main one talking with the BM body.

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Its not really even a ninjutsu. Its classified as a ninjutsu by the wikia.

So Naruto formed the hands for no apparent reason, just to do it? I really doubt it. Those TBBS were obviously fired from his hands. Kurama was controlling the cloak not Naruto himself in those scans anyway

Even if you take that away the TBB barrage from him, he still condensed a full TBB into a small ball to fit into the palm of his hands while maintaining a 8:2 Ratio. Face it, Naruto has better chakra control than Sakura.

 

[~Sky~]

KH, Kurama and Naruto both can talk when Naruto's in BM. That's why the speech bubble is emboldened so you can distinguish who is who.

Plus Kurama and Naruto switching was only when Naruto didn't have BM Avatar up.

 

[Mellanoma]

Rasenshuriken is more complicated than anything Sakura has done. They yin seal reuqires chakra to be focused on a single point. Just chakra, no affinities. Not to take away the fact that it requires great control to do what Sakura does.

Rasenshuriken requires making a rasengan and adding an element into it. Something that no one has done. Until someone forms a rasenshuriken, we will never know how easily it can be done without the help of clones.

While we can see that Tsunade can fill her yin seal up faster than Sakura and do better with it, all while maintaining her youthful look.

Naruto does rasenshuriken in Kyuubi mode using his chakra arms. Theres no need for clones.

My point was the kyuubi is the reason.. If Naruto didn't have the kyuubi there would be no Rasenshuriken

 

[KingHashirama]

KH, Kurama and Naruto both can talk when Naruto's in BM. That's why the speech bubble is emboldened so you can distinguish who is who.

Plus Kurama and Naruto switching was only when Naruto didn't have BM Avatar up.

Even if they took turns.. the bubble would still need to be distinguished...


And actually no, Kurama cannot talk out in the open if he is not in-charge of the body.

So Naruto formed the hands for no apparent reason, just to do it? I really doubt it. Those TBBS were obviously fired from his hands. Kurama was controlling the cloak not Naruto himself in those scans anyway

Even if you take that away the TBB barrage from him, he still condensed a full TBB into a small ball to fit into the palm of his hands while maintaining a 8:2 Ratio. Face it, Naruto has better chakra control than Sakura.

Because Kurama was controlling Naruto.... lollll. oml dude.

He didn't condense anything, he simply got chakra for a small tbb.... When he can control all the chakra of his body like Sakura i'll think about just putting Naruto near Sakura...

 

[~Sky~]

Even if they took turns.. the bubble would still need to be distinguished...

No it wouldn't.

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And actually no, Kurama cannot talk out in the open if he is not in-charge of the body.

That's only when Naruto's not in BM Avatar.

 

[shadowcb]

Ok let me do this chronological order.

But some points I want to make clear before that:

- no they can switch anytime they want, just like Killer B and Hachibi we have never seen them "switch".. but they always do instantly, without the reader even noticing until one of them talks.

- When Naruto is the one encharge, Kyuubi cannot speak on the outside. And Kyuubi himself can control Naruto's body.


Kurama and Gyuki both talk to each other here on the outside, meaning kurama is the one who is en-charge here:

Spoiler

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Kurama is then giving the orders on what to do , and establishes the plan:

Spoiler

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Here you see both Kurama and Gyuuki thinking the same thing:

Spoiler

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Here we see again that Kurama is still the main one talking with the BM body.

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Its not really even a ninjutsu. Its classified as a ninjutsu by the wikia.

What, are you serious. transfer chakra is a jutsu. At least the act is. Knowing how to transfer chakra is not a justu, but taking chakra, molding it to match a person type, and giving that person the chakra is a jutsu.

 

[To Whatever]

Even if they took turns.. the bubble would still need to be distinguished...


And actually no, Kurama cannot talk out in the open if he is not in-charge of the body.



Because Kurama was controlling Naruto.... lollll. oml dude.

He didn't condense anything, he simply got chakra for a small tbb.... When he can control all the chakra of his body like Sakura i'll think about just putting Naruto near Sakura...

All of her body? When has Sakura ever shown feats of extreme speed, lifting, and durability? All she did was punch dude, Pinpointed chakra releasing fueled punches.

I've never seen her kick like Tsunade or even use her finger to cause craters.

Kurama wasn't controlling Naruto in that scan. Kurama can talk freely via Kurama cloak. Otherwise they visibly show Naruto's pupil change or his whiskers getting bigger when he's in control of Naruto

Naruto beats Sakura in Chakra control.


The cloak is talking. That speech bubble is not for Naruto's body, even the eye is moving. Naruto has free will of his body.

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Notice the effort put in by the artists and kishi to convey Kurama taking over Naruto's body to talk

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When Naruto used TBB Barrage he was the one doing the Ratio control and firing it from his hands.

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I agree with you that those thought bubbles were Kurama's and Gyuuki, but other than that, Naruto was the one doing the TBB firing.

 

[Anorien16]

Obviously Sakura is better in percision ... but that heart surgery thingy was not a great feat of control, extracting poison from Kakuro's cells was a greater feat of precision .... But Naruto is better at handling and molding.

Also the pinnacle of control should be Kabuto, his least impressive said feat of bringing dead cells back to life and grow new one's in itself is beyond anyone.

 

[-Spoiler-]

My point was the kyuubi is the reason.. If Naruto didn't have the kyuubi there would be no Rasenshuriken

What? the rasenshuriken was created so naruto doesn't use the kyuubi charka at all. yamato was there especiallt to supressed the kyuubi chakra, kurama had no involvement with rasenshuriken or sage mode

 

[To Whatever]

Obviously Sakura is better in percision ... but that heart surgery thingy was not a great feat of control, extracting poison from Kakuro's cells was a greater feat of precision .... But Naruto is better at handling and molding.

Also the pinnacle of control should be Kabuto, his least impressive said feat of bringing dead cells back to life and grow new one's in itself is beyond anyone.

All of that is Medical Feats. Medical feats do not equal Chakra control. When Tsunade did surgery on Lee, it wasn't a Chakra control feat.

Extracting the poison wasn't a chakra control feat either. It was a medical feat. Just because she used medical ninjustu to do it doesn't mean it was a chakra control feat.

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My point was the kyuubi is the reason.. If Naruto didn't have the kyuubi there would be no Rasenshuriken

What? of course, Naruto didn't want to use Kurama so it was invented. Had Kurama never been inside him and he knew the Rasengan he would have still invented it.

 

[~Sky~]

Even Bee said Naruto was the one firing the TBB. Arguing otherwise is just stupid.

 

[Lightslayer]

here is what i have to say. when Naruto was in Nine Tails Chakra Mode (Kurama was helping him) he made a miniature sphere of chakra that is violently rotating in many directions, added wind natured chakra to it in the shape of four blades, had to keep it at an 8:2 ratio, and was able to keep it stabilized after throwing it. i would say that that is better than what Sakura has done.

 

[Bantos]

I'm actually really worried on the infection part. : D Sakura just put her dirty hand straight in Naruto's body. I mean Naruto is bound to die due to some infection later on. xD