Can you prove that with a scan That he doesn't have it ? I've got manga proof that all Vice-admirals are trained in haki. What you're saying is just your assumption. Maybe Sanji's CoO is greater than Vergo's, it's Sanji's field of expertise afterall.
[Discussion] Can beat Zoro beat Law?
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Rikudou Tobi
Active member
This is incoherent so I have no idea on what you're trying to say but clearly you have no idea on what you're talking about. You're just typing for typing sake.
I just broke down for you why Vergo isn't stronger and you clearly ignored that part and headed straight for the second part. So to me this shows me that you're either illiterate or just too lazy to read simple English.
I already know that you said that being chief of staff doesn't make you stronger, and I'm telling you that you're dead beat ass wrong for thinking that. All of the chief of staff in the manga is always second strongest to the leader/captain. Rank does hold weight in battle otherwise by your stupid logic, a rear admiral can fight on even terms with a vice admiral or Admiral.
Buggy's strength is in his crew, and most of what he's down is a misconception to the world govt so using him as an example is stupid and pathetic. You don't know if the Gorosei's never fought before, so you can't use that as an argument.
Lastly Vice admirals training in other forms of haki is wrong and it was never written in the manga. Even @SkullKnight who I don't agree with on anything is agreeing with me and saying that you're wrong. Oda just said that Vice admirals have the ability to use haki and that's it, he never specified on how many or which ones. The fact that you don't know this just confirms that you don't know shit about Onepiece.
Wrong you dumbass. Law's speech was literally about him cutting the Gears to Smile. Go read it in viz.
Clearly you know nothing about what I'm saying or about how devil fruit/haki works because not only did already said Law bypassed Vergo's haki, but your too dumb to realize that Law did cut Vergo physically with his sword. So what you're saying is absolute rubbish.
I'm not even going to get it in with you with the Vergo v Law/Law v Smoker thing because clearly you lack any grasp of fighting concept. The whole point to Smokers advantage was that his df increased his evasiveness and his haki was strong enough to bypass a few attacks from Law. Such as Scan and Chambres. Doflamingo clashed with Law just like how Vergo clashed with Vergo, Vergo never let himself get cut stupid. What you're saying doesn't make any sense at all and the Doflamingo cased proved me right anyways.
Listen here kid. Just because you've been in a forum for a long time doesn't mean you know shit about Onepiece. I've been on other Onepiece forums longer than you have so being proud of being in a Narutobase subsection just proves that you're more of a Naruto fan than you are a Onepiece fan. So just keep making yourself look stupid. I've been reading Oncepiece since the very beginning of the show started way before Naruto was even a thing.
What's bullshit is your idiotic logic of ranking having no weight behind them. That's just plain stupid. The stronger you are the higher your rank, unless you want to prove to me that a commodore can fight just as efficiently as a admiral?
Pica has more destructive power than Vergo, he easily beats him in a fight. He assimilated a whole city, Vergo by feats isn't able to destroy anything on the same level of a city. On top of that his Buso haki is superior because it took buso haki to deflect it. Zoro counters Law's attacks the same way Doflamingo used his 5 finger strings to counter Law's cutting ability. Simple.
You think because Zoro has a sword he can take that away? Law couldn't take away Vergo and Smoker sowrds despite one-shotting both of them, so clearly by logic anyone who's vice admiral level and above can easily avoid getting their swords taken from them.
Are you gonna argue with me that Law can take Shanks and Mihawk's sword away with "scan" or "cjambres" as well?
I don't give a shit about how long it takes me to post. You're pathetic for waiting online for a guy who you know nothing about just to get a response. I'm not some loser who opens his mouth spouting blatant stupidity all over this thread jerking his dick off in his mother's basement for a living. I have a life outside of this base and real people who need my attention. Enjoy you keyboard warrior hobby you cheeto fingers fat ****. That basement suits you.
REEE rage away. I would be mad too if I couldn't give a single good argument.
Not going to put a lot of effort into this post since you're not understanding it anyway.
1) The gears are not literal gears of the sad factory, they're a metaphor for the new age of the rookies setting things in motion. But I'm glad you took you're misunderstanding there as a chance to say something about my basic understanding of English. Ouch, that is a boat load of karma back in your face.
2) This one will hurt you a little I just know it:
Lastly Vice admirals training in other forms of haki is wrong and it was never written in the manga. Even @SkullKnight who I don't agree with on anything is agreeing with me and saying that you're wrong. Oda just said that Vice admirals have the ability to use haki and that's it, he never specified on how many or which ones. The fact that you don't know this just confirms that you don't know shit about Onepiece.
It was said on Amazon Lilly that everyone has a dormant ability for the 2 types of haki, so when it's stated that all the VA's have haki that means that they have to trained at some point to achieve that. But don't walk away from the original post. Since the only thing I said that Vergo also had CoO, and you denied that. But there is no denying this:
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@Skull, see spoiler above
3) All your rank talk still is stupid as ****. You're comparing the wrong people to the wrong people. I said look at Buggy and Mihawk holding the same rank. I said look at Smoker and Vergo holding the same rank. Rank means shit in a fight when youre SHichi Buggy vs Shichi Mihawk. Here you are comparing commodores to admirals. What a turd move. Just like all the executives have the same rank, being chief of staff does nothing for Trebol in a fight against Vergo or Pica.
4) Paradox time !! So I asked you how Pica would beat Vergo in a fight, you didn't answer that at all. You gave a whole spiel about size and destructive power. Still have no clue how Pica would land a hit on Vergo who can geppou circles around him and has shown feats of strength that would rip of the arms of the golem. ANYWAYS. If according to you Pica has shown those feats you mentioned, and he is so much stronger, that must mean he beats Trebol according to you too right since he didn't show those feats ? But wait Trebol is the 'higher rank' So Trebol must win? Uh oh ? Who wins this then according to you ? Rank over feats ?
I already told you that Law couldn't take away Smoker's Jutte with room since it was seastone tipped. And Law shambelsed his heart right out of Vergo's hands, meaning he is able to take stuff right from them. Scan please to prove me wrong.
And the rest is basically calling me an idiot, stupid and fat. I told you to stop doing that if you're wrong all the time. It doesn't really make me look like a fool.
Skull Knight
Active member
Is there any particular reason to believe he has Observation haki???
Not only Sanji but Smoker too has landed hits on him at the same time stealing Law's heart.
Both Pica n Vergo went down in similar fashion. They tried to show off there full body Haki n thought there opponent would not be able to cut them.
And the scan you posted it said he manifested one of the types of Haki(which apparently was Observation for Coby's case) doesn't mean all the VA have Observation Haki. Most of them have showed only one type of it i.e Armament Haki.
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Rikudou Tobi
Active member
This clown. You lost the argument so idk what you’re talking about. Wrong. Law said that “i’ve destroyed the gears” so there’s nothing metaphorical about it, his immediate actions in comparison to the wrongful interpretations of something yet to come is obvious. Law is talking about what he did in present tense while the era was talked about in future tense. Stupid :lol
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You’re reading comprehension is absolute trash and it’s just hilirous how illiterate you are yet you talk so high and mighty about yourself?
Learn how to read because it’s just embarsssing owning you this easily.
XD XD
this guy is retarded Rayleigh said people have 2 types of dormant powers of Haki, he didn’t say that everyone will automatically have it.
Read what the manga says here:
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Just like @SkullKnight and I said. Oda never specified on how many and which type. Even the doctor said that the vice admirals have SOME form of it not ALL forms of it.
This is just too easy
ALL you do is speculate stupid assumption without even reading the manga.Buggy and Mihawk have the same title you dumbass, it didn’t say anything about Rank.
So you’re absolutely retarded for comparing a world power that’s considered a level not a rank within the level.
You’re applying the word ranking to the wrong thing here, so that’s why you look so stupid right now.
That’s not what paradox means you dumbass :|
I already told you how Pica beats Vergo and that’s because Pica has superior Haki, swordskils, and his destructive power when assimilating is way more than Vergo’s. You need to be able to cut mountain level in order for you to bisect his assimilated form.
Vergo lacks fire power to even cut half a mountain and his durability is less than mountain cutting power.
Trebol is stronger than both of them because his devil fruit powers make him so evasive that Luffy’s Haki punches couldn’t touch him and Dofy’s strings didn’t catch him either when they tag team Law.
His sticky launcher can launch a whole pirate ship with one toss (which Vergo can’t pick up) and his flammable mucus is so big that it lit the whole palace on fire. Luffy and Doflamingo had to leave because of how deadly it is.
I already told you that the tip of the jitte doesn’t prevent you from swapping the seastone which you blatantly ignored or can’t read because you’re illiterate.
Colby said that the bottom of a navy ship made out of sea prism yet Law’s room was able to pick it up and swap places with it. So you’re wrong once again.
I already told you that alas needs to be standing still in order for him to take away your weapon, and if he doesn’t then he will lose it like he did with Vergo. Hence why I posted that scan in the first place which you so ignorantly didn’t read.
Which you are. Look at how stupid I made you look right now.
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Dęvîa Puęrî
Active member
I showed you this because of your outragous claims about law's teleporting ability. Obviously, he did not teleport smokers Jutte because of sea stone. Though its filler what does not lie is law's room range and how easily he can actually make this happen... people underrate law so much and while i do think that zoro is closer to law than he is to luffy (overall power wise) law it literally zoro's worst nightmare in terms of matchup (aside from kuma and mihawk). You forget Law has switched himself (he is on zoros level but i feel is stronger), Luffy (stronger than zoro) doffy (stronger than zoro) Sanji (weaker than zoro ) and others. He switched the personality of majority of the straw hats in a instant. Zoro is a close range power fighter as seen with vergo that is not the way to go to defeat law. In order for you to do this you need to be faster than him. And not just by A little bit it needs to overwhlem him. Also Zoro as a whole is not faster than law (he may have faster in terms of defending attacks but even that is up to debate with the whole doffy vs sanji thing). Law who could keep up with doffy and zoro who needed a king punch just to catch pica. Not to mention the fact that law can shambles himself.
So yes while its filler it still stands that Zoro does not have anything (aside from overwhelming physical strength) that can save him from laws cunning/df ability. either he or swords get switched if law is really serious. Zoro is obviously a threat so to take him out the easiest would be to seperate him from his swords and with his bad directions he honestly would prob never find them. Also shambles into gamma knife is always an option lol
not that Hawkins beat Zoro or Luffy in any way but through the use of his intelligence and of ability he was able to contend with and actually injure zoro (wwasnt uber serious though). Yes people say zoro was protecting luffy who was protecting the child but lets all be serious for a min luffy and zoro should have been able to dodge/defend from a no name attack. With law if he goes that route zoro will not have a chance to recover..
Lord Tywin
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Rikudou Tobi
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I’m not going to read all of this so I’m just going to stop you with the sea prism bullshit talk.
Now read what Colby said about the Navy ships:
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Now look at what Law did to a Navy ship:
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So with that enough said. I never made any outrageous claims about Law, I know Law’s abilities in and out strengths and weaknesses because I wanted to see how well him and Kidd would do in a fight against Luffy.
So I know way more than you on what he’s capable of and I read every chapter carefully in viz when it comes down to what law can do. So don’t question me about what I know.
You’re already wrong about the sea prism speculation so I’d stop right there if I were you.
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I kept telling you over and over again that the gears are a metaphor, at least take the trouble of reading the rest. Him destroying the gears has NOTHING to do with factory gears, it's about setting things in motion in the new world by the rookies. You're making such a fool of yourself. I told you three times now. The fact that you're talking about 'owning me' and dissing my reading comprehension make me cringe so much since it doesn't apply to me buddy.
Wrong. Law said that “i’ve destroyed the gears” so there’s nothing metaphorical about it, his immediate actions in comparison to the wrongful interpretations of something yet to come is obvious. Law is talking about what he did in present tense while the era was talked about in future tense. Stupid :lol
You’re reading comprehension is absolute trash and it’s just hilirous how illiterate you are yet you talk so high and mighty about yourself?
Learn how to read because it’s just embarsssing owning you this easily.
XD XD
Rayleigh said people have 2 types of dormant powers of Haki, he didn’t say that everyone will automatically have it.
Read what the manga says here:
Just like @SkullKnight and I said. Oda never specified on how many and which type. Even the doctor said that the vice admirals have SOME form of it not ALL forms of it.
This is just too easy
Buggy and Mihawk have the same title you dumbass, it didn’t say anything about Rank.
So you’re absolutely retarded for comparing a world power that’s considered a level not a rank within the level.
You’re applying the word ranking to the wrong thing here, so that’s why you look so stupid right now.
That’s not what paradox means you dumbass :|
I already told you how Pica beats Vergo and that’s because Pica has superior Haki, swordskils, and his destructive power when assimilating is way more than Vergo’s. You need to be able to cut mountain level in order for you to bisect his assimilated form.
Vergo lacks fire power to even cut half a mountain and his durability is less than mountain cutting power.
Trebol is stronger than both of them because his devil fruit powers make him so evasive that Luffy’s Haki punches couldn’t touch him and Dofy’s strings didn’t catch him either when they tag team Law.
His sticky launcher can launch a whole pirate ship with one toss (which Vergo can’t pick up) and his flammable mucus is so big that it lit the whole palace on fire. Luffy and Doflamingo had to leave because of how deadly it is.
I already told you that the tip of the jitte doesn’t prevent you from swapping the seastone which you blatantly ignored or can’t read because you’re illiterate.
Colby said that the bottom of a navy ship made out of sea prism yet Law’s room was able to pick it up and swap places with it. So you’re wrong once again.
I already told you that alas needs to be standing still in order for him to take away your weapon, and if he doesn’t then he will lose it like he did with Vergo. Hence why I posted that scan in the first place which you so ignorantly didn’t read.
Which you are. Look at how stupid I made you look right now.
I like how conveniently forgot about Smoker and Vergo, but went all in on Buggy and Mihawk. Must be some short term dementia.
Rayleigh said everyone has CoA and CoO, and even the manga scan you showed says that all VA's have some form of it. Some form that means that there is at least something there. Some > None
Prove it that the tip of the Jutte doesn't matter, how can Law's DF influence seastone. You have no proof for that. Don't blame that on me. You come with some proof I'll wait.
The fact that you think that Trebol is stronger than Pica is enough to stop taking you seriously right here. Enough is enough. You painted yourself in a corner and now it's just bullshit coming out. Also using the argument that Trebol is more evasive so he can dodge Pica. But when I said that Vergo was evasive with his geppou you said naaah Pica is stronger doesn't matter. Of all the executives no one moves like Vergo. Vergo folded iron doors. Vergo would break that statue with ease, it's only stone afterall. Vergo pumped himself to twice his size when he used his haki even Doffy praised his form. There is no reason to think Pica has the same control of haki since his wasn't able to block nothing.
paradox
noun [ C or U ] UK /ˈpær.ə.dɒks/ US /ˈper.ə.dɑːks/
a situation or statement that seems impossible or is difficult to understand because it contains two opposite facts or characteristics:
When you say that rank is strength and feats are strength. And you place Trebol above Pica based on rank, but Pica above Vergo in terms of feats. Then Pica should be over Trebol too since his feats are better, but Trebol holds a higher rank. So that is exactly what a paradox is.
But you've enlightened us and according to you Trebol is stronger than Pica. I rest my case there, with you in a corner watching the paint dry. Good luck.
It says that it's "a type of haki" referring to CoO and all the Vice admirals are capable of using it. I really don't want to discuss about this anymore, it's in the manga, so I don't know what I can tell you. There are scenes where Vergo is enclosed in smoke and smoker uses his white launcher to fire his fists at him, Vergo dodges those easily while they're point blank range.
A character doesn't always need to say haki mode on for them to use haki. If Oda says all VA's have it then that's enough for me. It's also weird to think that a man like vergo who trained his CoA to that level doesn't train his CoO, it's something that is dormant in everyone. If this was a discussion about CoC I would totally understand it.
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Skull Knight
Active member
That scan u posted only shows Doctor explaining Coby n helmeppo about Haki. As u see he said that Coby has awaken observation Haki(a type of Haki). It was never explicitly said that all VAs got CoO. Doctor last words were VAs are capable of using can also mean other Haki variations like Armament or maybe Conqueror.
Now you only think if he had even some form of Observation haki which he used in PH then he should have caught Smoker stealing the heart(which he never recognized till law gets up n puts it back in his body).
Rather what he does is show off his Armament n charged straight towards him(thinking Law won't be able to cut him) n he basically gets killed.
So these are the only conclusion which i can derive from Vergo's performance in PH arc:
His observation Haki is super shit
(OR)
He doesn't know how to use it properly
(OR)
He doesn't even have it.
That wasn't a king's punch
It was Orlumbus who threw him n he knew perfectly what he has to do to beat Pica
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N things doesn't work like he will shambles swords n then fight lol
It's like saying Law can beat Mihawk by simply stealing his sword
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Rikudou Tobi
Active member
Are you seriously that fucking retarded that you don't even know simple English on that level?
He said that "Well, now that I've destroyed the Gears." He talking about present tense literally not figuratively you imbecile. :| The metaphor was the "age of daring and might" was all future tense and that's how you can tell the difference. Was does "I've" have to do with any thing metaphorical when it comes to "the age” of multiple people?
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I like how you forgot that Vergo out ranks Smoker yet you failed on that Buggy and Mihawk attempt. Must be some serious delusions you're suffering right about now.
Must be dementia or illiteracy. I say both
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I already did you dumbass.
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Shave is not an evasive enough attack stupid it’s paper art that is which he doesn’t have, and he's not evading a whole country falling on top of him. Luffy, Zoro, and everytone else weren't able to avoid it, they just counter it, so there's no way Vergo is dodging shit.
Trebol is the strongest whether you like it or not.
Which none of that happened because all you've been doing is jumping into conclusions.
No, I didn't place Pica above Vergo because of his superior feats, I put him in a higher position because the ranks of the officers are in the order in which they are defeated. You just assumed that i implied this because you're an idiot that assumes everything.
There for it's no a paradox. You're just unhinged and can't grasp the simple perspective of rankings/
Because he is, you just lack perspective.
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Punk Hazard
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I don't know what to tell you man, you're a broken record.
The gears are a metaphor, no matter how many times you zoom in and underline it. Read it context man, sometimes there is a deeper meaning. He says I because he was the one who set it in motion, destroying Ceasar's lab led to pissing off two yonkou. He says it in present tense because it is the present. It's the dawn of new pirates like Law and Luffy which is confirmed in hindsight by all the rookies that are involved in these arcs.
Seastone can't be cut therefore it wasn't on the bottom of the ship, not all ships have seastone since it's rare. Smokers ship must not have had it since it didn't need to cross the calm belt.
You talk about soru and kami-e not being evasive enough, cool story. The only thing I talked about was Geppou, which basically allows him to fly. Good luck big slow statue trying to swat Vergo out of the air. Another example of you not paying attention to what is said.
And lastly you double down on Trebol being the strongest, I think with that statement everybody can assess your title as 'knowledgeable One Piece guy' for themselves.
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Rikudou Tobi
Active member
It's not and you look cringe worthy stupid right now. Go ask everybody else since you're so stubborn to except the fact. Law talking about himself cutting the literally destroying the gears isn't anything metaphorical because Law legitimately destroyed the gears. This is all you do, fanfic right out the ass, and you assume everything you said is correct when there's like 4 people disagreeing with you right now.
This is why you're stupid. Law didn't cut the hauls into pieces, he just cut the part that wasn't into pieces. On top of that all Navy ships have have seastone prism in their hulls so what you said here in bold is stupid because you can't come to the new world without crossing the calm belt at a marine.
Once again, you lost the argument.
This is a good example of not paying attention to what I said. Luffy, Zoro, and everyone else wasn't able to fly out of Pica's range even Issho wasn't shown flying away from it and he as well as Luffy can fly.
The tonttas tried to fly Robin, Rebecca, w/ co out of Pica's range too, yet they weren't apply to without Zoro's help.
So keep talking nonsense.
I'm way more knowledgeable than you that's for sure. I already beat your Seastone argument because navy ships have sea stones on their hulls, beat you with the haki argument hence why you kept your mouth shut about it, and you failed to realize the last part that further supports my agreement that the riverbed underneath the ship was also lifted up into the air along with the navy ship.
Seastones are just the ocean waters in its physical form, now here's Law lifting up that same water that the seastones energy comes from.
So you're just making this way too easy and you clearly know nothing. I think I remember that you're the idiot that said that Sanji can melt Zoro's swords with his diablo jambe a while back. Now I know not to take anything you say seriously.
Punk Hazard
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Part of me wants to read this thread fully to see how Variah missing the obvious metaphor somehow factors into this argument, and the other part doesn’t want to feel that much pity
Rikudou Tobi
Active member
Riker with his stupidity again. What will he say next after getting thrashed in the last thread.
I'm not going to put that much effort into something I know I'm already right about. Make a thread a put up 2 strawpolls.
Provide the chapter with Law's speech and ask if it's about 'literal factory gears' or metaphoric gears, and have the other one be about who the strongest executive is and enter all 4 current ones and Vergo.
Off all the people you named, none of them fly at the speed of geppou. Fujitora and Robin are more hovering. Luffy can only fly in gear 4th, and he wasn't facing Pica in gear 4th. I don't know why Zoro is up there since he can't fly at all. Ironically Zoro beat the statue technically while "flying" and Pica didn't see him coming. So once again big fat stinker of a non-argument. You can't prove that all the ships are lined with seastone. I know for a fact that seastone cant be cut therefore Smokers' ship didn't have it. Makes sense since he didn't need a ship that needed to cross a calm belt. About the marines coming to the New World that's the dumbest thing I've heard today. They're not pirates. They have bases in the New World, their ships are already being built there. Besides you also have no understanding of the One Piece world map as you don't have to cross the calm belt to get in the New World. The grand line is surrounded by calm belts so as long as you stay in between and go under the red line at fishman island you're already in the New World.
You're also wrong about Devil fruit users being unable to manipulate water. They have no problem doing that since it only harms them when they're coming in contact with it. We've seen Aokiji freeze a lot of water before. Even Luffy and robin used their skills briefly underwater gear third and gigantesco mano. They even commented that their power was being drained. So see here the difference between touching sea water and manipulating it. Sea stone is a different story all together, it negates a df users powers instantly, that's why handcuffs, bullets, and cages are so effective. Really need to pay some more attention to details.
You should really stop calling someone an idiot when you're wrong all the time. What's fucking worse is accusing me of things I've never said. You either back you goddamn bullshit up or you shut up. Never said anything about diable Jambe being able to melt Zoro's swords. You're trying to discredit me because you're an incompetent tool and you can't win with arguments. It's the same shit over and over and over again. Even when it's literally in the manga you still don't get it. It says that all VA's have haki, it says that marine ships that cross the calm belt have seastone not all of them, it says that the gears are not literal gears.
The only thing that is left to convince is you if Oda would show up on your doorstep and whisper in your ear: Anata wa orokana chīsana o shiridesu, watashi no shinchō ni kōchiku sa reta hanashi o taberu no o yamete kudasai.
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chopstickchakra
Active member
Guy, the gears ARE the metaphor. The gear in the phrase are the devices(moments) that drives the event(the new age) forward. Law destroying the factory(the gear) meant there was no going back to a time when they weren't involved in the course the story will take(the new age begins coming) Yes there were literal gears that were destroyed within the factory but the use of gears in the phrase was as a metaphor for creating a situation that couldn't be avoided.