[Discussion] Bigger gap

[OG sama]

Room is not considered a sustainable mode, you don't see people make threads and label it 'Room Law vs Zoro'. Law can make the room but he's not keeping it up for long, again 'Room Law' isn't considered a sustainable mode and Law still loses either way.


Nothing indicates G4 is faster than G2 but Luffy launches Doflmanigo across Dressrosa before he know what happens? Falmingo was fine with reacting to G2 Luffy while he struggled greatly against G4 Luffy, though some of it was due to injury, Luffy also crossed Dressrosa immediately in G4 something Luffy can't do or hasn't shown in G2. Law is not shambling before he can be tagged or Law would never be tagged in fights, Law get blitzed especially if the distance is short.

Not to mention injured Doflamingo dodged most G2 attacks while in G4 he got blitzed by rhino Schneider, Luffy was right in his view then all of a sudden he gets kicked in the face.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Room is not considered a sustainable mode, you don't see people make threads and label it 'Room Law vs Zoro'. Law can make the room but he's not keeping it up for long, again 'Room Law' isn't considered a sustainable mode and Law still loses either way.

Are you really trying to say Law doesn't have to sustain his Room? The fact of the matter is, if you're starting Luffy off at his very possible best condition, then you have to do the same with Law; if you start Luffy off with the best thing he can activate already activated, then Law starts off with the best thing he can activate already activated. Otherwise, it's bias and an advantage towards Luffy.

Nothing indicates G4 is faster than G2 but Luffy launches Doflmanigo across Dressrosa before he know what happens? Falmingo was fine with reacting to G2 Luffy while he struggled greatly against G4 Luffy, though some of it was due to injury, Luffy also crossed Dressrosa immediately in G4 something Luffy can't do or hasn't shown in G2. Law is not shambling before he can be tagged or Law would never be tagged in fights, Law get blitzed especially if the distance is short.

Launching Doflamingo across Dressrosa has nothing to do with speed, but with power. Throughout the entire fight, Doffy made numerous notes about what G4 increased, and each time it was power. Not once was there any mention about an increase in speed.

Doflamingo's reaction to G4 speed and G2 speed are nearly identical. Doffy was able to dodge both Gear 2 and 4, leaving an afterimage and getting a short distance away.

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Doffy was also unable to react to G4 and G2 until they were both mere inches from him

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And we know he reacted to the G4 in that panel because he applied Haki to his face in the next page to try and block it.

The page of him dodging Gear 4 also shows he was fast enough to maneuver around Luffy without Luffy noticing until he was already behind him

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[OG sama]

Are you really trying to say Law doesn't have to sustain his Room? The fact of the matter is, if you're starting Luffy off at his very possible best condition, then you have to do the same with Law; if you start Luffy off with the best thing he can activate already activated, then Law starts off with the best thing he can activate already activated. Otherwise, it's bias and an advantage towards Luffy.



Launching Doflamingo across Dressrosa has nothing to do with speed, but with power. Throughout the entire fight, Doffy made numerous notes about what G4 increased, and each time it was power. Not once was there any mention about an increase in speed.

Doflamingo's reaction to G4 speed and G2 speed are nearly identical. Doffy was able to dodge both Gear 2 and 4, leaving an afterimage and getting a short distance away.

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Doffy was also unable to react to G4 and G2 until they were both mere inches from him

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And we know he reacted to the G4 in that panel because he applied Haki to his face in the next page to try and block it.

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So Law is going to beat G4 Luffy by using his mountain sized room? If it was that easy, then why wasn't Doflamingo someone just as fast or perhaps a little slower get stopped by it? G4 can fly, it can fly above the room.

 

[Punk Hazard]

So Law is going to beat G4 Luffy by using his mountain sized room? If it was that easy, then why wasn't Doflamingo someone just as fast or perhaps a little slower get stopped by it? G4 can fly, it can fly above the room.

Who said it would be easy? I am not denying Luffy would land hits. In fact, I see it ending in a draw with Luffy pummeling Law quite a bit but Law will manage to land a GK or well timed cut, each with a combination of Shambles. Luffy succumbs to the hax, Law succumbs to the brutal beating. You forget a mountain sized Room means a wide range for Shambles. Law isn't getting blitzed by G4, seeing as he could parry several of a healthy Doffy's attacks, and injured Doffy can avoid G4 and maneuver around Luffy with Luffy not noticing till he's behind him.

 

[OG sama]

Who said it would be easy? I am not denying Luffy would land hits. In fact, I see it ending in a draw with Luffy pummeling Law quite a bit but Law will manage to land a GK or well timed cut, each with a combination of Shambles. Luffy succumbs to the hax, Law succumbs to the brutal beating. You forget a mountain sized Room means a wide range for Shambles. Law isn't getting blitzed by G4, seeing as he could parry several of a healthy Doffy's attacks, and injured Doffy can avoid G4 and maneuver around Luffy with Luffy not noticing till he's behind him.

Doffys attacks healthy or not are no where near as fast as G4s, you think casual five colored string attacks are comparable to how fast G4 has hit Doflamingo in the face?

Law isn't taking many hits from G4 Luffy, in fact Laws durability isn't even comparably good to an injured Doflamingo.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Doffys attacks healthy or not are no where near as fast as G4s, you think casual five colored string attacks are comparable to how fast G4 has hit Doflamingo in the face?

Law isn't taking many hits from G4 Luffy, in fact Laws durability isn't even comparably good to an injured Doflamingo.

Pretty sure if Doffy can dodge G4 and almost sneak up on Luffy while he's in G4, then his speed is comparable to G4 at least while he's injured.

People underestimate Law's durability and endurance. He was able to take three beatings from Doffy, one of which included Fujitora while using the power that constantly drains his physical energy while being used. Even with one arm gone, bullet holes in his chest, three holes in his chest from Doffy's attack, drained of energy and immobile, Law has been shown to land sneak attacks. Law can take more than a few good hits from Gear 4

 

[OG sama]

Pretty sure if Doffy can dodge G4 and almost sneak up on Luffy while he's in G4, then his speed is comparable to G4 at least while he's injured.

People underestimate Law's durability and endurance. He was able to take three beatings from Doffy, one of which included Fujitora while using the power that constantly drains his physical energy while being used. Even with one arm gone, bullet holes in his chest, three holes in his chest from Doffy's attack, drained of energy and immobile, Law has been shown to land sneak attacks. Law can take more than a few good hits from Gear 4

Doflamingo dodged only one attack from G4 and then he connected with an attack that simply bounced off. Other than that, he got blitzed but was able to survive due to his Haki which is > than Laws.

If Fuji wanted Law dead in that instance he most certainly would have died, Fuji held him with his gravity but not nearly enough to kill him. The attack was held back as seen when he used it on Zoro.

He's not getting one shot but he's not surviving too many of those attacks, especially not KKG.

I say its an high-Extreme diff win for the Luffy who fought Doflamingo.

 

[-Akuma-]

Are you really trying to say Law doesn't have to sustain his Room? The fact of the matter is, if you're starting Luffy off at his very possible best condition, then you have to do the same with Law; if you start Luffy off with the best thing he can activate already activated, then Law starts off with the best thing he can activate already activated. Otherwise, it's bias and an advantage towards Luffy.

Law's room isn't considered a sustainable mode, again when have you seen people go around and say 'Room Law'? Law can start in his room he still loses.

Launching Doflamingo across Dressrosa has nothing to do with speed, but with power. Throughout the entire fight, Doffy made numerous notes about what G4 increased, and each time it was power. Not once was there any mention about an increase in speed.

Just because he didn't mention a speed increase doesn't mean there wasn't one, Doflminago was socked by Luffy before he eve knew what was going on while in G4.

Doflamingo's reaction to G4 speed and G2 speed are nearly identical. Doffy was able to dodge both Gear 2 and 4, leaving an afterimage and getting a short distance away.

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Doffy was also unable to react to G4 and G2 until they were both mere inches from him

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And we know he reacted to the G4 in that panel because he applied Haki to his face in the next page to try and block it.

The page of him dodging Gear 4 also shows he was fast enough to maneuver around Luffy without Luffy noticing until he was already behind him

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Doflmango straight out gets blitzed here

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He was clearly looking at Luffy and then Luffy uses some sort of high speed movement and next thing you see is DD sent flying, the '!?' even confirms DD lost sight of Luffy while Luffy was suing his high speed movement. Law's reactions should be a good deal below DD's Law is getting dicked on in G4.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Law's room isn't considered a sustainable mode, again when have you seen people go around and say 'Room Law'? Law can start in his room he still loses.

It's something that Law has to activate and then sustain. It's not a mode, but that doesn't matter. It and G4 are in the same category as things that need to be activated. Why does Luffy get go start with his best Gear activated, but Law can't start with his best Room activated?

Just because he didn't mention a speed increase doesn't mean there wasn't one, Doflminago was socked by Luffy before he eve knew what was going on while in G4.

Doflamingo was shocked by the increase in strength and the fact that he was still rubbery while coated in Koka. And yet, there was no surprise in speed. Why would Doffy point out every boost and benefit to Gear 4, but leave out the speed?


Doflmango straight out gets blitzed here

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He was clearly looking at Luffy and then Luffy uses some sort of high speed movement and next thing you see is DD sent flying, the '!?' even confirms DD lost sight of Luffy while Luffy was suing his high speed movement. Law's reactions should be a good deal below DD's Law is getting dicked on in G4.

Doffy did indeed lose sight of Luffy when he vanished. However, the text bubble with "!!" in it that you so conveniently chose to ignore shows that Doflamingo was able to react to Luffy appearing beside him. Being blitzed means you are caught completely off guard. However, Doffy noticed Luffy and activated Koka on his face and neck. He couldn't have done that if he was unaware Luffy was next to him. Doffy's had identical reactions to Gear 2 and 4, which means no speed boost between the two.

Considering that Gear 4 is basically just Gear 2 on a Hakified, expanded body, it makes sense why there is no speed boost.

If Law's speed was so far below Doffy's, he wouldn't have been able to block any of his attacks.

 

[U mAd]

hers how i rank the debated characters in this thread based on feats,hype and potrayal.
1.luffy-100
2-zoro-94
3-law-93
4-sanji-90

i pesonally think luffy is underrated being compared to zoro and law when his speed power endurance and even haki feats are all better then both of them combined.zoro has yet to go all out but has alredy shown impressive feats.zoro low diffed pica,he didnt get a single wound.law has gone all out and still failed many times.he needed help from smoker to fight vergo and a technique that threatens his own life was not even enough to put doffy down for minutes.law's far from luffy in my mind.sanji hasn't has one serious fight since TS but he has shown some impressive feats that people tend to ignore or underrate.still he hasn't had one good fight yet cause he's been put up against characters far stronger and his fights keep getting interrupted midway.

as for the main question the gap between sanji and zoro is closer for me cause oda has specifically stated that there power levels between them are very very close.any fight between them at any time will go high diff.befor time skip it was like luffy>zoro(high diff)/luffy>sanji(high diff),zoro</>sanji(extreme diff).but now zoro wins vs sanji high diff not extreme.im considering extreme like both losing limbs and one dropping on the ground out of exhaustion before another.

 

[Punk Hazard]

hers how i rank the debated characters in this thread based on feats,hype and potrayal.
1.luffy-100
2-zoro-94
3-law-93
4-sanji-90

i pesonally think luffy is underrated being compared to zoro and law when his speed power endurance and even haki feats are all better then both of them combined.

When Luffy was pierced by Hody, he commented that his Haki was not good enough to withstand sharp attacks and that he still needed to train it. This indicates that Luffy's Haki can't quite withstand sharp attacks because it's underdeveloped. Against injured Doflamingo, Luffy's Haki was pierced by his Athlete Thread. Law on the other hand blocked Doffy's string attack with his Koka. That puts Law's Busoshoku ahead of Luffy's. When you keep in mind that Luffy's specialty is Haoshoku, it makes sense why his Busoshoku may be a bit underdeveloped.

Nothing indicates that Luffy has greater endurance than Zoro. Pre-timeskip, Luffy's fatigue caused him to pass out. Meanwhile, Zoro was able to take that plus his own massive fatigue and remain conscience. That clearly placed Zoro's endurance ahead of Luffy's by miles. While this may possibly have changed after time skip, nothing indicates this. It can also be debated that Law has greater stamina than Luffy, If not at least comparable.

When it comes to speed, Law is not behind Luffy by much, and Shambles is faster than anything Luffy could achieve due to being teleporting, unless Luffy someday gets so fast he can time travel through sheer speed.

zoro has yet to go all out but has alredy shown impressive feats.zoro low diffed pica,he didnt get a single wound.

Zoro vs Pica was high diff. Diff isn't just about how much damage you take, it's about how much it takes for you to defeat your opponent. Because of Pica's ability and constant moving in the stone, it was hard for Zoro to catch and defeat him.

law has gone all out and still failed many times.he needed help from smoker to fight vergo

That's because Vergo had his heart. Once Law got his heart back, he defeated Vergo in one blow.

and a technique that threatens his own life was not even enough to put doffy down for minutes.

You mean Gamma Knife? It was never said GK threatens Law's life. Using a Room that big while so low on energy is what threatened his life. Gamma Knife also put down Doflamingo for just as long as the G4 assault did.

 

[U mAd]

When Luffy was pierced by Hody, he commented that his Haki was not good enough to withstand sharp attacks and that he still needed to train it. This indicates that Luffy's Haki can't quite withstand sharp attacks because it's underdeveloped. Against injured Doflamingo, Luffy's Haki was pierced by his Athlete Thread. Law on the other hand blocked Doffy's string attack with his Koka. That puts Law's Busoshoku ahead of Luffy's. When you keep in mind that Luffy's specialty is Haoshoku, it makes sense why his Busoshoku may be a bit underdeveloped.

law blocked it with because of his DF powers not cuase of his better haki.

Nothing indicates that Luffy has greater endurance than Zoro. Pre-timeskip, Luffy's fatigue caused him to pass out. Meanwhile, Zoro was able to take that plus his own massive fatigue and remain conscience. That clearly placed Zoro's endurance ahead of Luffy's by miles. While this may possibly have changed after time skip, nothing indicates this. It can also be debated that Law has greater stamina than Luffy, If not at least comparable.

u talking about before time skip and also at thriller bark luffy went solo vs both gekko moria and oars before going unconcious whie zoro took agin im saying next to no damage from the samurai.maybe the samurai got one attk on zoro but just one.so zoro took like no damage from ryuma(i think thats the name).
When it comes to speed, Law is not behind Luffy by much, and Shambles is faster than anything Luffy could achieve due to being teleporting, unless Luffy someday gets so fast he can time travel through sheer speed.
law had trouble cutting vergo and smoker.he had more trouble with doffy.moderate haki and good speed is enough do block/dodge attacks from inside room.luffy ain't some fodder u can just shambles when u want.

Zoro vs Pica was high diff. Diff isn't just about how much damage you take, it's about how much it takes for you to defeat your opponent. Because of Pica's ability and constant moving in the stone, it was hard for Zoro to catch and defeat him.
like u said pica's a constant moving big giant stone.basically he was a tank.as soon as zoro found him he was done he didn't last 5 minutes when zoro decided to end that fight.compare them to mr 1 fight or kaku and ull see how easy that beating pica was.

That's because Vergo had his heart. Once Law got his heart back, he defeated Vergo in one blow.
yeah u mean he caught vergo off guard unprepared after he fought smoker wich wasnt' much of a fight to be honest and one shotted him.

You mean Gamma Knife? It was never said GK threatens Law's life. Using a Room that big while so low on energy is what threatened his life. Gamma Knife also put down Doflamingo for just as long as the G4 assault did.

my point still remains(life threatenning).also he runs out of stamina too soon when he uses DF powers.

 

[-Akuma-]

It's something that Law has to activate and then sustain. It's not a mode, but that doesn't matter. It and G4 are in the same category as things that need to be activated. Why does Luffy get go start with his best Gear activated, but Law can't start with his best Room activated?

Because it's not really recognised as that, as I said do you see people making threads saying 'Room Law'? That's besides the point because he still loses.

Doffy did indeed lose sight of Luffy when he vanished. However, the text bubble with "!!" in it that you so conveniently chose to ignore shows that Doflamingo was able to react to Luffy appearing beside him. Being blitzed means you are caught completely off guard. However, Doffy noticed Luffy and activated Koka on his face and neck. He couldn't have done that if he was unaware Luffy was next to him. Doffy's had identical reactions to Gear 2 and 4, which means no speed boost between the two.

Considering that Gear 4 is basically just Gear 2 on a Hakified, expanded body, it makes sense why there is no speed boost.

I didn't chose to ignore the '!!' it's not relevant DD still couldn't trun around fast enough to react to the Shinder, plus the point was that Luffy moves so fast at one point Doffy lost track of him, he did get 'blitzed' in that panel. Blizting isn't getting caught off guard it's when someone moves so fast you completely fail to react. Doffy had a good look at Luffy when he first entered G4 and when Luffy was flying down to him

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. Doffy never had identical reactions to G2 or he would of never gotten blitzed by the Rhino Shineider.

G4 also uses Luffy's elasticity, so yeah it would make sense if he did get a speed boost and it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense because he did show a boost in speed once he entered G4.

If Law's speed was so far below Doffy's, he wouldn't have been able to block any of his attacks.

Law's reactions are far below Doffy's he was never able to hit him cleanly by himself nor was he able to land a hit on him, Doffy never went all out against Law. If Law had similar speed and reactions Law would of been more of a match for Doffy.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Luffy and law, even without gear 4, luffy would still beat law.

 

[Punk Hazard]

my point still remains(life threatenning).also he runs out of stamina too soon when he uses DF powers.

Can I ask that you not respond by putting bolded messages into the quote box? It makes it hard and tedious to respond to replies like that while on mobile.

No, Law blocked it because of Koka. Here he holds his arms in front of him and uses Armament Haki to block the slash.

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You need to reread Thriller Bark. The entire Strawhat crew fought Oars and Moriah. Remember when Zoro got kicked through a building? He also received heavy damage from that fight. Luffy's fatigue was at such a level, that he did not have the endurance to remain conscience. When Zoro took this level of fatigue and it was added to his own, he remained conscience, which means greater endurance. This was pre-skip, but is there a single thing indicating this has changed post skip?

Law didn't have trouble cutting Vergo. Law didn't attempt go cut Vergo once before he got his heart back because Vergo was constantly squeezing it. Law only made one cut throughout their entire fight, and it cut Vergo in half.

Law has trouble cutting Smoker because Smoker is made of smoke. When his body is cut, it just reattaches automatically. Luffy doesn't have that same ability. No, moderate Haki isn't good enough because Vergo had the skill to cover his entire body and it did nothing for him.

It was a high diff because of how tricky Pica's ability was, not because his fighting power was too great.

Off guard Vergo? How was Vergo off-guard when he was struck while charging directly at Law? Smoker also did no significant damage to Vergo whatsoever.

No, your point doesn't stand. GK was never said to be life threatening.

Because it's not really recognised as that, as I said do you see people making threads saying 'Room Law'? That's besides the point because he still loses.

You are very poorly understanding such a simple concept. Gears and Room both have to be activated. Saying Law starts with his best Room already activated is the same concept as saying Luffy starts with his best Gear already activated

I didn't chose to ignore the '!!' it's not relevant DD still couldn't trun around fast enough to react to the Shinder

Except he did react to the Schneider. The exclamation marks are him reacting to Luffy appearing beside him. If Doffy was unable to react to the Schneider, how did he know to activate Koka on his face?

plus the point was that Luffy moves so fast at one point Doffy lost track of him

And Doffy did the same to Gear 4 Luffy in this page.

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He was able to circle around Luffy and get behind him before Luffy noticed.

He did get 'blitzed' in that panel. Blizting isn't getting caught off guard it's when someone moves so fast you completely fail to react. Doffy had a good look at Luffy when he first entered G4 and when Luffy was flying down to him

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. Doffy never had identical reactions to G2 or he would of never gotten blitzed by the Rhino Shineider.

Failing to react IS getting caught of guard, guard, so yes, blitzing someone is catching them off guard using sheer speed. Doffy reacted to Luffy's presence beside him, indicated by the exclamation marks, and reacted to Schneider by activating Koka to block it.

I showed pages right next to each other of Doffy dodging Gear 2 and 4 the exact same way, and getting caught by both the exact same way. They are obviously identical reactions.

G4 also uses Luffy's elasticity, so yeah it would make sense if he did get a speed boost and it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense because he did show a boost in speed once he entered G4.

No, he did not. And how would being more elastic mean he gets a speed boost? That makes no sense. Gear 4 is activating Gear 2 while contorting your body to form folds and using Haki to control the extensions and contractions. Gear 4 is just Gear 2 with more power.

 

[Bogard]

Luffy and law, even without gear 4, luffy would still beat law.

Finally someone who understand

 

[Punk Hazard]

Finally someone who understand

Yeah how is that exactly, when Gear 2 can't dish out a heavy enough hit and Gear 3 has far too many gaps and openings?

 

[Bogard]

Yeah how is that exactly, when Gear 2 can't dish out a heavy enough hit and Gear 3 has far too many gaps and openings?

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Luffy can most probably beat Law without g4 anyway, especially if he can stack both gears like i think he can. His only dangerous move to avoid is gamma knife and he couldn't land it on Doffy without luck, back-up plan and outside help. It's never landing on Luffy. Doflamingo was styling on him in close combat and Base Luffy showed comparable reaction speed. In g2 he is even faster. Stacking it with g3, and he gives considerable damage especially with the concussive force. Observation helps to predict Law's future movements. Armament block Law's cutting ability just like how Doflamingo could do and his armament wasn't much greater

Law isn't Doflamingo. G4 was created for Doflamingo level guys and up, not for Law.

 

[lelerskates]

Riker Slade wins the thread. He uses logic and actual proof while the rest of you are plain stupid and going by bias.

And the biggest gap is between Zoro and Sanji. Zoro and Sanji might have been a good fight pre timeskip but now Zoro would beat him 10/10 times and if they both started out bloodlusted Zoro would win in the first 10 seconds. In my opinion, Zoro and Luffy would be 5/10 for either of them.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Already replied to this

Law isn't Doflamingo. G4 was created for Doflamingo level guys and up, not for Law.

Even if he combined Gears 2 and 3, 3 will still have gaps and openings. The size of his limbs means he can't throw them as fast as he could while they're normal. Yeah, they'd be faster, but fast enough to catch Law? Pure speculation.

Gear 4 isn't even enough for Doflamingo. After an assault for 51 minutes, Luffy was immobile and passing out while Doffy was Awakening all over the place. Without Gatz, Doffy would have killed Luffy. Remove Gatz and make Doffy healthy? Luffy would have been in even more serious trouble, especially when injured Doffy could maneuver faster than he could fully notice.