[VS] Akainu vs Kaido, read first

arv993

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#81
You have yet to show where in those pages recent years are excluded.



But this is working against you. We have evidence of WB's reaction speed being decreased(Marco's words) and his stamina(the heart attacks.) We have no proof that anything else was affected by his health. Hence why I am asking YOU for proof in the first place.

As for the abdomen strike, Whitebeard said it didn't have any effect. Period.


Not really. Even if you have CoO active, that won't take you all the way. Your overall reaction depends on BOTH natural reflexes and Observation Haki. If you have higher natural reflexes than someone else but the same level of Observation Haki, then your reaction speed will be higher.


Yes, him being hurt would do that. Good thing, according to Whitebeard himself, he was not hurt.


There's nothing to argue here. Whitebeard himself declared that he has no use for soft words, so what he said wasn't a lie just to make Squard feel better. What he said was the truth. If that wasn't the truth, he would have said something different. The man HIMSELF declared that soft words have NO VALUE to him. So WHY would he then USE SOFT WORDS? You talk about asinine statements, but you're the one sounding stupid atm. "Yeah, WB, the guy who says he has no value in meaningless words totally straight up lied to Squard with soft words because that fits my argument." **** outta here.


Zero proof of this.
SHow me where he lost 1v1 that is your whole point right? We know what he ha been up to recent years. Use common sense i kno you dont have any.


Marcos words are proof of my statment, you dont use reflexes for sneak attacks you use COO. I cant believe you need an explanation for that. yea his reflexes got slower too. But you need COO at the minimum to be good in order to avoid your comrades sneaking up and attacking you which is what marco referenced.

OOH he wasnt hurt, yet blood was oozing out and made a painful face, I guess we got to take every word literally even when said in compassion. Good to kno your logic,

Then why didnt he use hashoku, due to his illness, heart attacks are part of it, or you thought that doesnt count. YOu are proving again and again why you are just type a lot of nothing on this base.

DUde cursing doesnt make your insane points any more true so refrain from typing all those paragraphs. You just said he was nice to ace adn lied for him etc and he cant be nice to squardo and do the same and his reaction indicated he was hurt that is more proof than his words. You are saying that wb isnt compassionate. well go argue that with oda since he would disagree with u on that.
 
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#82
SHow me where he lost 1v1 that is your whole point right? We know what he ha been up to recent years. Use common sense i kno you dont have any.
Burden of proof is on you that Kaido didn't suffer those losses in recent years(already conceded that Admirals weren't mentioned).

Marcos words are proof of my statment, you dont use reflexes for sneak attacks you use COO. I cant believe you need an explanation for that. yea his reflexes got slower too. But you need COO at the minimum to be good in order to avoid your comrades sneaking up and attacking you which is what marco referenced.
Dawg....Squard attacked Whitebeard from the front...

OOH he wasnt hurt, yet blood was oozing out and made a painful face, I guess we got to take every word literally even when said in compassion. Good to kno your logic,
Jesus Christ how many times do I have to say that "hurt"=affected his capabilities. Squard's stab did not WEAKEN Whitebeard, or affect his ability to fight, in any way. Is that clear enough for you?

Then why didnt he use hashoku, due to his illness, heart attacks are part of it, or you thought that doesnt count. YOu are proving again and again why you are just type a lot of nothing on this base.
Your argument is that Whitebeard can't use Haoshoku because if he tries to, a heart attack will stop him. Your argument is that Whitebeard attempting to use Haoshoku will trigger a heart attack. This is wrong. Whitebeard used Haki throughout the war, and no heart attack happened. And we've seen him have a heart attack without trying to use Haki. That proves beyond a doubt that Haki and the heart attacks are no way connected. It was COINCIDENCE that Whitebeard caught a heart attack at a point where he happened to be attempting Haoshoku.

If Whitebeard was attempting to run, the heart attack would have still happened. If Whitebeard was attempting a Quake, it would have still happened. If Whitebeard was standing still doing nothing, it would have still happened.

DUde cursing doesnt make your insane points any more true so refrain from typing all those paragraphs.
Yeah, your posts have been riddled with insults. Don't add being a hypocrite to your resume of being wrong as well.

You just said he was nice to ace adn lied for him etc and he cant be nice to squardo and do the same
That's not what I said. I said the exact opposite: Whitebeard didn't lie for Ace or to Ace. Whitebeard's words didn't make Ace feel better at all. Whitebeard lied to the government.

and his reaction indicated he was hurt that is more proof than his words.
You still think that when I say "hurt" I mean "he felt pain," so I think after this I'm done witcho dumbass.
 

arv993

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#83
Burden of proof is on you that Kaido didn't suffer those losses in recent years(already conceded that Admirals weren't mentioned).



Dawg....Squard attacked Whitebeard from the front...


Jesus Christ how many times do I have to say that "hurt"=affected his capabilities. Squard's stab did not WEAKEN Whitebeard, or affect his ability to fight, in any way. Is that clear enough for you?


Your argument is that Whitebeard can't use Haoshoku because if he tries to, a heart attack will stop him. Your argument is that Whitebeard attempting to use Haoshoku will trigger a heart attack. This is wrong. Whitebeard used Haki throughout the war, and no heart attack happened. And we've seen him have a heart attack without trying to use Haki. That proves beyond a doubt that Haki and the heart attacks are no way connected. It was COINCIDENCE that Whitebeard caught a heart attack at a point where he happened to be attempting Haoshoku.

If Whitebeard was attempting to run, the heart attack would have still happened. If Whitebeard was attempting a Quake, it would have still happened. If Whitebeard was standing still doing nothing, it would have still happened.


Yeah, your posts have been riddled with insults. Don't add being a hypocrite to your resume of being wrong as well.


That's not what I said. I said the exact opposite: Whitebeard didn't lie for Ace or to Ace. Whitebeard's words didn't make Ace feel better at all. Whitebeard lied to the government.


You still think that when I say "hurt" I mean "he felt pain," so I think after this I'm done witcho dumbass.
a sneak attack is a sneak attack, he did not see it coming but COO wouldve helped. and he has shown good COO feats so him being compromised makes sense.

so you're saying those losses arent 1v1? and yea there is no definitive proof, since we have to wait on more of his backstory but based on his recent conquests it doesnt make sense for him as the leader to be captured etc while he became shogun and everything else he was up to in recent times.

hurt= more likely to get heart attacks not going further than that for you.

where did i insult i just said the truth whenever you made an insane post, you did the same thing but in my case the posts werent the same but you were just frustrated or w/e

i said his kings haki was limited due to health and he did not use it whatsoever, if it was cuz of heart attacks that is part of his health its that simple.

it doesnt matter what you said, you just have to go based on his character and his character reflects that.
 
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#84
a sneak attack is a sneak attack, he did not see it coming but COO wouldve helped. and he has shown good COO feats so him being compromised makes sense.
WB not seeing it coming isn't proof that his CoO got weaker though. The fact that Squard was coming from the front suggests WB's natural reflexes are what failed.

so you're saying those losses arent 1v1? and yea there is no definitive proof, since we have to wait on more of his backstory but based on his recent conquests it doesnt make sense for him as the leader to be captured etc while he became shogun and everything else he was up to in recent times.
Kaido didn't become the Shogun of Wano, he's allied with the Shogun. Anyways, your admission that there's no proof is all I need.

hurt= more likely to get heart attacks not going further than that for you.
Post evidence that Squard's stab triggered the heart attack.

where did i insult i just said the truth whenever you made an insane post, you did the same thing but in my case the posts werent the same but you were just frustrated or w/e
Right, when you call someone stupid, you're just calling it like it is, but if someone jabs you, they're frustrated and a bad debater. Another child tainting this section.

i said his kings haki was limited due to health and he did not use it whatsoever, if it was cuz of heart attacks that is part of his health its that simple.
This is not the same as his Haki being weaker though. Whitebeard's Busoshoku worked fine, there's no evidence his Observation was weakened, and the same for his Haoshoku. At the moment WB had the heart attack that stopped him from using Haki, all of his abilities were unavailable to him, as he was STUNNED.

you just have to go based on his character
The character that doesn't believe in empty words just to make someone feel better, as evidenced by him saying "I have no use for soft words?" Yeah, I think I've made the right assessment.
 

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#85
Squadro's stab is superficial compared to what WB can take before he can't fight anymore. Compared to WB's endurance, that stab is nothing more than and I quote WB "A little jab." Losing half of his face, magma fist though his chest, 2000+ gunshots, 1000+ slashes & stabs, 72 cannon blasts and 2 heart attacks is what took to kill him. The stab alone is nothing.

Its just like when Law told Luffy not to get cocky as his Red Hawk is only superficial damage compared to what it would take to end Mingo. It took an injection shot, destroyed organs, 3 clean blunt attacks and 5 G4 attacks to end Mingo.
 

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#86
Squadro's stab is superficial compared to what WB can take before he can't fight anymore. Compared to WB's endurance, that stab is nothing more than and I quote WB "A little jab." Losing half of his face, magma fist though his chest, 2000+ gunshots, 1000+ slashes & stabs, 72 cannon blasts and 2 heart attacks is what took to kill him. The stab alone is nothing.

Its just like when Law told Luffy not to get cocky as his Red Hawk is only superficial damage compared to what it would take to end Mingo. It took an injection shot, destroyed organs, 3 clean blunt attacks and 5 G4 attacks to end Mingo.
It's not that the stab is something to make WhiteBeard "unable to fight anymore".. but rather how people cannot comprehend that a stab into your upper body can effect your health enough to cause a heart attack to occur sooner rather than later.. (at that old age and being sick of course, we're not talking about a younger healthy fighter.)
 
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#87
It's not that the stab is something to make WhiteBeard "unable to fight anymore".. but rather how people cannot comprehend that a stab into your upper body can effect your health enough to cause a heart attack to occur sooner rather than later.. (at that old age and being sick of course, we're not talking about a younger healthy fighter.)
Yeah except Whitebeard explicitly stated the stab didn't affect him.
 

Itachi Minato

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#88
It's not that the stab is something to make WhiteBeard "unable to fight anymore".. but rather how people cannot comprehend that a stab into your upper body can effect your health enough to cause a heart attack to occur sooner rather than later.. (at that old age and being sick of course, we're not talking about a younger healthy fighter.)
This argument is stupid tbh. WB was old he was attached to machines even when shanks showed up. There's no way he can defeat an admiral he's catching a heart attack at some point. Squardos stab was insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Might have caused a heart attack earlier but not like if it didn't happen WB wouldn't have had a heart attack.
 

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#89
This argument is stupid tbh. WB was old he was attached to machines even when shanks showed up. There's no way he can defeat an admiral he's catching a heart attack at some point. Squardos stab was insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Might have caused a heart attack earlier but not like if it didn't happen WB wouldn't have had a heart attack.
It kinda like a snowball effect imo. If he hadnt had a heart attack right at that moment, akainu might not have been able to cause so much more damage along with all the stabs from the marine elites he received. If that massive wound is considered nothing, then everything akainu did is also nothing in my book.
 
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#90
It kinda like a snowball effect imo. If he hadnt had a heart attack right at that moment, akainu might not have been able to cause so much more damage along with all the stabs from the marine elites he received. If that massive wound is considered nothing, then everything akainu did is also nothing in my book.
Are you for real? You think Squard and Akainu are on the same level in terms of attack? Foolish.
 

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#91
Are you for real? You think Squard and Akainu are on the same level in terms of attack? Foolish.
Nope, but squardos attack was strong enough to affect whitebeard. It put the strongest man in the world on his knees. Seems foolish to ignore that. Akainus attacks actually slowed whitebeard down even less than squardos did. Judging strictly by the immediate affect each attack had on whitebeard, squardos was more important than either of akainus. This is why I said if squardo's attack doesn't count, then neither do akainus.

And also, mihawk could have done the same attack that squardo did and it wouldnt be any stronger or weaker. A stab through the chest is a stab through the chest no matter how you look at it. The situation allowed for a weak opponent to make a very critical and damaging attack. If Mihawk had done the same thing, you probably wouldn't be having this argument.

It is clear that squardo was meant to be the first domino in the chain that lead to whitebeards demise. Without it, things would not have necessarily been the same. Maybe WB would have died anyways, but the whole buildup to his death would be different. Who knows, Ace might have lived after all if Whitebeard was the one to get to the platform. Instead WB had a heart attack at a critical moment due to his weakened state, brought on by an initial attack on his body.

I mean seriously, this forum goes on and on about how rayleigh was gonna lose the fight against kizaru because he was panting! But WB being stabbed through and through, falling to his knees, dripping blood from the wound and his mouth, and yet he wasn't critically affected by the attack!!! That is laughable.
 
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#92
Nope, but squardos attack was strong enough to affect whitebeard.
Directly contradicts the manga.

It put the strongest man in the world on his knees.
No it didn't. Squard stabbed Whitebeard, everybody stared in shock, and Whitebeard looked down at Squard plain-faced. Then Marco flew all the way up to the ship, pushed Squard into the ground, and THEN Whitebeard got onto his knees as Marco dodged Squard's sword swing. Whitebeard got on his knee to talk to Squard(Squard sat down, and Whitebeard held up his arm to Marco to stop him from attacking Squard again), and then hugged him. If the stab knocked WB to his knees, it wouldn't have taken so damn long, and he wouldn't have reacted to the stab with a plain face.

Seems foolish to ignore that. Akainus attacks actually slowed whitebeard down even less than squardos did. I think it is clear that squardo was meant to be the first domino in the chain that lead to whitebeards demise. Without it, I dont think things would have necessarily been the same.
This isn't true at all. Squard stabbed Whitebeard, and Whitebeard stood there without budging an inch and his facial expression not changing. Akainu's blow sent Whitebeard actually reeling, knocking in his midsection, and you can see his body tensing up by the veins in his arms, a visible difference in the effects on Whitebeard's body by the two attacks.



Whitebeard then legitimately fell to his knees




And also, mihawk could have done the same attack that squardo did and it wouldnt be any stronger or weaker. A stab through the chest is a stab through the chest no matter how you look at it. The situation allowed for a weak opponent to make a very critical and damaging attack. If Mihawk had done the same thing, you probably wouldn't be having this argument.
Wowww this is so wrong it hurts. Mihawk delivering that slash would have been wayyyy more effective, considering Mihawk would be able to deliver more impact due to higher strength and his blade would be of a sharper, way higher grade, and what is likely to be powerful Haki. I wouldn't be having this argument because Mihawk's stab would have been for sure visibly better.
 

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#93
Directly contradicts the manga.


No it didn't. Squard stabbed Whitebeard, everybody stared in shock, and Whitebeard looked down at Squard plain-faced. Then Marco flew all the way up to the ship, pushed Squard into the ground, and THEN Whitebeard got onto his knees as Marco dodged Squard's sword swing. Whitebeard got on his knee to talk to Squard(Squard sat down, and Whitebeard held up his arm to Marco to stop him from attacking Squard again), and then hugged him. If the stab knocked WB to his knees, it wouldn't have taken so damn long, and he wouldn't have reacted to the stab with a plain face.

This isn't true at all. Squard stabbed Whitebeard, and Whitebeard stood there without budging an inch and his facial expression not changing. Akainu's blow sent Whitebeard actually reeling, knocking in his midsection, and you can see his body tensing up by the veins in his arms, a visible difference in the effects on Whitebeard's body by the two attacks.

Whitebeard then legitimately fell to his knees





Wowww this is so wrong it hurts. Mihawk delivering that slash would have been wayyyy more effective, considering Mihawk would be able to deliver more impact due to higher strength and his blade would be of a sharper, way higher grade, and what is likely to be powerful Haki. I wouldn't be having this argument because Mihawk's stab would have been for sure visibly better.
Look again. Not plained face. Shocked, wide eyed, sweat dripping. Secondly, squardo delivered a stab not a slash, more impact whatever, it went all the way through him. No more damage could be done than that. Mihawk performing the stab would have the same result. What you are saying is like saying mihawk chopping an arm off does more damage than zoro chopping an arm off, wtf.

Whiteboard reacted to akainus attack, but didnt fall to his knees after. He was on his nees before, hard to see but look real close, cant see his boots, and can see the ground trembling from his weight when he fell to his knees.
On the other hand if we continue with squardos attack.

We can see that whitebeard moved to his knees pretty quick. Marco is pretty fast, not much time passed here. He did not get on his knee to talk to squardo, he didnt need to do that before, it isnt why he did it now. He did hug squardo which would require him to kneel, but that happened 8 pages late, with many dialogue panels. And squardo didnt sit down, marco pinned him. It wasnt as if whitebeard was kneeling in response to squardo wanting a conversation.
 
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#94
Look again. Not plained face. Shocked, wide eyed, sweat dripping.
Still remains that Whitebeard didn't budge an inch from the stab, not even so much as a stagger or a flinch. And of course he was wide eyed, his own stab just stabbed him. Sweat is a terrible argument to bring up, Zoro was sweating when Carrot dodged and attacked him as well, for instance.

Secondly, squardo delivered a stab not a slash, more impact whatever, it went all the way through him.
Are you not paying attention? I said Squard made a slash at MARCO, which is when Whitebeard got on his knees.

No more damage could be done than that. Mihawk performing the stab would have the same result. What you are saying is like saying mihawk chopping an arm off does more damage than zoro chopping an arm off, wtf.
This isn't the same comparison. Chopping an arm off is a uniform thing all around, a stab, however, can carry more damage depending on the weapon used and the strength of the person using it because you're driving the weapon into their body. A stronger person could have pushed Whitebeard back with the stab. Look at Ryuma's attacks against Brook where he makes the same jabbing motion, and Brook goes flying.

Whiteboard reacted to akainus attack, but didnt fall to his knees after. On the other hand if we continue with squardos attack.

We can see that whitebeard moved to his knees pretty quick. Marco is pretty fast, not much time passed here.
I pointed all of this out. Everyone gave reactions, Squard stepped back, Marco attacked him, Squard counter attacked, Sengoku gave orders and dialogue, there was an announcement, and then Whitebeard calmly went to his knee. If the stab is what made Whitebeard fall to his knees, it wouldn't have happened after all of this happened while having no physical reaction to the stab beforehand. It makes absolutely no sense that the stab would cause ZERO physical reaction from Whitebeard, and then minutes later he'd fall to his knees as a reaction.

He did not get on his knee to talk to squardo, he didnt need to do that before, it isnt why he did it now. He did hug squardo which would require him to kneel, but that happened 8 pages late, with many dialogue panels. And squardo didnt sit down, marco pinned him. It wasnt as if whitebeard was kneeling in response to squardo wanting a conversation.
He didn't get on his knees because it was required, he got on his knees because it was a moment of distress between him and Squard, it was an intimate moment that goes beyond their casual conversation before, evidenced by Squard opening up to Whitebeard in sadness and anger and WB hugging him and expressing his love for him. The two conversations are not comparable.
 

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#95
Still remains that Whitebeard didn't budge an inch from the stab, not even so much as a stagger or a flinch. And of course he was wide eyed, his own stab just stabbed him. Sweat is a terrible argument to bring up, Zoro was sweating when Carrot dodged and attacked him as well, for instance.
Legitimate argument with kizaru vs rayleigh though, ok...


Are you not paying attention? I said Squard made a slash at MARCO, which is when Whitebeard got on his knees.
I was talking about this :
Mihawk delivering that slash would have been wayyyy more effective
You are the one not paying attention. As for your whole argument about the stab being more powerful from mihawk... no, just no. Thats not the way this works. You need to reevaluate your thinking on stabbing and slashing weapons and their maximum effectiveness. If a blade has more pressure/force behind it, nothing changes if it is already cutting. It would just cut cleaner and faster if anything. The pushing only occurs if you aren't actually cutting.



I pointed all of this out. Everyone gave reactions, Squard stepped back, Marco attacked him, Squard counter attacked, Sengoku gave orders and dialogue, there was an announcement, and then Whitebeard calmly went to his knee. If the stab is what made Whitebeard fall to his knees, it wouldn't have happened after all of this happened while having no physical reaction to the stab beforehand. It makes absolutely no sense that the stab would cause ZERO physical reaction from Whitebeard, and then minutes later he'd fall to his knees as a reaction.


He didn't get on his knees because it was required, he got on his knees because it was a moment of distress between him and Squard, it was an intimate moment that goes beyond their casual conversation before, evidenced by Squard opening up to Whitebeard in sadness and anger and WB hugging him and expressing his love for him. The two conversations are not comparable.
Really, minutes! What are you talking about, mere seconds have passed since the stab occurred. Have you ever read stories of people who have been stabbed and not realized or felt it as a stab immediately. It can take a second to realize what happened and to feel the pain and to react. And that really is all it was, seconds at most.
 
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#96
Legitimate argument with kizaru vs rayleigh though, ok...
When have I ever used just Ray sweating as an argument? I've always pointed out Ray saying he hadn't picked up a sword in forever and the fact that he was also breathing hard as indications of his exhaustion.

I was talking about this : You are the one not paying attention. As for your whole argument about the stab being more powerful from mihawk... no, just no. Thats not the way this works. You need to reevaluate your thinking on stabbing and slashing weapons and their maximum effectiveness. If a blade has more pressure/force behind it, nothing changes it is already cutting. It would just cut cleaner and faster if anything.
In that case, it wouldn't matter how strong a swordsman you are if you had a better blade, which clearly isn't the case within this manga. Strength behind a weapon matters greatly.

Really, minutes! What are you talking about, mere seconds have passed since the stab occurred. Have you ever read stories of people who have been stabbed and not realized or felt it as a stab immediately. It can take a second to realize what happened and to feel the pain and to react. And that really is all it was, seconds at most.
Clear exaggeration going over your head aside, you can't use real world logic for something like this, considering that those people would also keel over and die.
 

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#97
When have I ever used just Ray sweating as an argument? I've always pointed out Ray saying he hadn't picked up a sword in forever and the fact that he was also breathing hard as indications of his exhaustion.


In that case, it wouldn't matter how strong a swordsman you are if you had a better blade, which clearly isn't the case within this manga. Strength behind a weapon matters greatly.



Clear exaggeration going over your head aside, you can't use real world logic for something like this, considering that those people would also keel over and die.
I'm just saying that the sweat argument gets thrown around here all the time on the base. Wb's reaction wasn't as bad as it was to akainu but I think he was also in a state of shock.

Strength absolutely matters because it is what let's you cut harder things. But if you can already stab though someone using 50% strength, using 100% strength won't yield a different result. It would only change the result if 50% didn't go all the way though or if it didn't pierce at all.

We can use real world logic wherever we want unless there is a specific and legitimate reason not to. Some people don't die from being stabbed, others make it out of the alley then fall over, others die on the spot. White beard wasn't gonna die from this alone, clearly, but given the length of time that passed, him going into his knee was more of a reaction to being stabbed. He didn't need to kneel to stop Marco either. And the kneeling occurred too soon to be in response to squados words.
 

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#98
This argument is stupid tbh. WB was old he was attached to machines even when shanks showed up. There's no way he can defeat an admiral he's catching a heart attack at some point. Squardos stab was insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Might have caused a heart attack earlier but not like if it didn't happen WB wouldn't have had a heart attack.
Says my argument is stupid..

Then admits and agrees to my argument..



Ok..
 

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Tbh my capabilities as a whole would most likely diminish if someone put a sword through my chest
Some people think that a sword stab to the upper body of a sick elderly person has no effect and can't even be enough damage to cause a heart attack to occur sooner rather than later.. :sdo:

I can't understand the logic of those people, I'm sorry..
 
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