Agree or nah? "Sasukes an idiot..."
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Darth Uchiha
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If you actually read my damn post, you would see that I said Sasuke never changed. Nagato was given Obito's abridged history, who was given Madara's abridged history, who was given Black Zetsu's abridged history, yet both Nagato and Obito were actually able to admit how f*cked up their plans were and change. I don't care what Sasuke's past was, Gaara had a worse childhood than Sasuke did, yet he changed for the better. Sasuke has the full history of how the world ended up so messed up, yet he's still doing what Indra did, taking matters into his own hands, he's doing what Madara did, deciding he knows what's best and not bothering to listen to anyone else. Most people in the ninja world put the past behind them, the Kages, the citizens themselves, but who couldn't? Of course Sasuke couldn't, he needs to stand in the way of actual progress to create Sasuke progress, progress that can only be achieved through violence and mayhem. And Sasuke's favors? He only killed Orochimaru after he joined him, he also joined the Akatsuki after killing Itachi, nullifying that action, and he was hell bent on destroying Konoha, going as far as attacking the Gokage Summit (equivalent to attacking a UN meeting) for said goal. Yeah, either you didn't read the manga, or you're in denial.
BenjerminGaye
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Naruto X Hunter
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Manipulated by who? Orochimaru,who he was using and get rid of as soon as he was done? By Tobi,who he never saw as an ally.Who he was using?
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lol let's ignore this and hate on Sasuke.lmao,how many years have you been reading Naruto yet you don't understand the story? You hate on Sasuke for things that aren't even true.I have a question for you,are you stupid?
Tobi thought he was using Sasuke,he planned too.Sasuke went to the summit to fight Danzo,Something he wanted to do on his own,not because Tobi told him to in chapter 453.
He also didn't automatically believe everything Tobi told him about Itachi,he said multiple times that Tobi was lying and here's what he said after he questioned Danzo in chapter 476.
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"So it was true" as in what Tobi told him.Sasuke deos things on his own not solely because of others.
Lol easily manipulated.What fanfiction you speak.
So many facts go against his fail thinking.I just listed a few.
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Darth Uchiha
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Except he was playing perfectly into Tobi's hands...is there suddenly some new definition of manipulation that I haven't heard of?
Edit: Also, just because Sasuke thought he was in control, doesn't mean he was. He was doing everything Tobi wanted, and in the end, Tobi traded him like a friggin toy to get a better one. Anakin thought he was using Palpatine in Ep. 3, even though it was clearly the other way around.
Darth Uchiha
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Natsu Shazneel
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Yeah I noticed that. Lol
Not really I know this guy very well. He is someone who relies on pure manga facts.
Naruto X Hunter
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I clearly read the manga better than you do.He went to the summit to kill Danzo.They found out he was there from Zetsu telling them,then the Kages attacked him.The Mizukage sealed the exit when he was about to leave and chase after Danzo after he saw he wasn't there.They knew he was after Danzo,not them.He didn't attack them - they attacked him,he fought back in self defense.
Gaara's past was not worst,your bias against Sasuke is telling you that it is.Gaara had people trying to kill him,a crappy Farther,no one liked him,he was lonely,and his uncle the only person to care for him ended up trying to kill him when he was like 7/8.Then he turned hateful and started to enjoy killing.Sasuke had his whole family killed his whole family killed by his older brother when he was 7/8,his parents were killed infront of him and Itachi used the MS to show Sasuke him killing their whole family.Then Sasuke lived alone for years hating his older brother for killing their whole family,then he meets Itachi again and itachi uses the MS to show him killing their whole family via Tsukuyomi for 72 HOURS STRAIGHT.then after a few more years of hating Itachi he finds out the truth about Itachi - then decides to take out Konoha
His anger is understandable.You probably get mad over simple things,yet Sasuke's anger is so unrelatable.
Sasuke's not naive,the Shinobi nations have went into War 3 times before then went back to fighting each other.How deos he know thats not gonna happen again? Cause they are fighting together now? And why are they doing that? Cause the Akatsuki was a threat to all of them.
" Sasuke progress, progress that can only be achieved through violence and mayhem"
What were the Akatsuki doing? What were the Shinobi nations doing?hence three wars with each other? Yet you probably only ever complain about Sasuke.
What grammatical errors? I'm on mobile and even despite that i figured i made none or atleast none worth mentioning so i didn't reread to check.But then again you're just nitpicking at my post cause you don't like so many facts that go against you to be shown.
Sasuke did things of his own free will.He didn't listen to Tobi cause Master Tobi knows whats best and he's always super right about everything.He did it cause he wanted to.
It's like someone tells you something that they know you of your own free will are going to want to do,then when you here it,you do it.Deos that mean they manipulated you?
He negeotiated for Sasuke with Kabuto.Yeah so what,Sasuke wasn't his,and do you think Sasuke would just go over to Kabuto cause God Tobi said that he traded for him? Sasuke did things on his own,from his own choices - with your logic i could say Jiraiya used Naruto,since he knew and planned that Naruto would go with him to become stronger.
Did Jiraiya use Naruto? No,Naruto did things on hisown free will.Knowing someones going to want to do something from hearing about something deosn't make that person manipulated.
When you want to have sexy time with your Lady,and your Women walks into your room at night with nothing on but Lingerie,is she manipulating you to give her pleasure? If you do it are you playing into her hands? No,your doing it cause you want too.
So the 2nd main character who has always been important is now being called nothing but a plot device as if he is nothing like he was before,like his actions are so unbelievable and out of character that it must of only happened cause their needed to be a fight with him and Naruto lol.
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You didn't disprove ANY of my points, you just gave a bunch of excuses for Sasuke. So yeah, like I already explained in my post, Sasuke is pretty stupid.
I don't know why you asked me about the Akatsuki or the Cloud, sand, and sound village. This is a thread about Sasuke so get over it.
And also, grammar goes a long way. Learn some.
Sasuk3Uchiha
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Darth Uchiha
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First, are you seriously arguing that having your family die is worse than having your family try to kill you your entire life? Honestly, I'd rather have my family just die, instead of learn that they never loved me and plotted my destruction all along. Gaara was never shown any love, at all, and his family wanted him dead, in my mind, that's way worse than having your brother try to kill you, because, I think learning your father sent your uncle to kill you and that said uncle always hated you despite being the one person to show you kindness...yeah, that's worse than Sasuke's shit, mind rape and all, you're just biased for Sawuke.
Second, with the grammar of a fourth grader, I shouldn't expect you to notice any grammar or spelling errors.
Third, Naruto and Jiraiya actually had a close relationship, Jiraiya was trying to protect Naruto, not use him as a weapon. Tobi planned on using a Sasuke as a weapon, and did exactly that in regards to taking out Danzo and capturing the Eight Tails chakra, whether Sasuke did these things of his own free will is inconsequential, the definition of manipulation I know usually imparts that the manipulated are ultimately doing things of their own free will. Tobi made Sasuke hate Konoha, and found all the right buttons to press, he wanted him to hate the Leaf and accomplished it.
He's not unbelievable or out of character, he's just not hi anymore. His goals don't tie into his backstory anymore, other than not being able to move the hell on with his life like people like Gaara had to. He's unbelievable because I can't even feel sorry for him anymore, because this is just too much, he knows the history of how Indra started everything, yet he's too selfish to act differently.
Naruto X Hunter
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You're too stupid to realize that i did disprove your pionts.You said he's stupid for killing his own brother,how so? Itachi killed their own Family yet you don't ever call him stupid don't you? He's stupid for wanting revenge on the guy who killed their family?
He didn't attack all the Kages at once.If you correctly read the manga then you would know that.I even explained some of what happened.Did Sasuke go to the Raikage or did the Raikage go to him? Did Gaara go to Sasuke or did Sasuke go to him? Did the Tsuchikage and Mizukage attack him first or did he attack them first? Yet you say Sasuke attacked all them at once.
And you fail to understand why i mentioned the Sand and Cloud.It was to show why Sasuke wants to become Hokage,and change the messed up Shinobi world and System - but your bias against Sasuke is keeping you from seeing that i was explaining that,and instead you piont out grammar,which is funny considering you barely ever type more than one sentence at a time.
What was wrong with my grammar anyway? Explan that and take note of the facts i said above.
Facts and Logic are excuses to you if they aren't things that you like.Yeah Sasuke attack all the Kages,he didn't use a single jutsu on the Tsuchikage but lets just say he still attacked him lmao,didn't the Tsuchikage appear infront of Sasuke and launch a Dust Element technique on him?
No,super evil Sasuke attacked him according to you.
Lol nicely said,Funny how he ask if Sasuke's an Idiot for this and deosn't ever say anything about Madara who nearly killed the KagesSure, he is an idiot because he wanna get rid of the kages that used their powers to make war and even did business with Akatsuki.
Poor kages, such good humans.
Im on mobile,excuse me for not being perfect about every little placement of words.You didn't repeat my pionts correctly,instead you watered it down to make it not look so horrible.Sasuke's family didn't just die,his parents was killed infront of him by his own brother who he trusted and cared for more than anyone else.Itachi also showed Sasuke with the MS how he killed all their other family members.He did it when Sasuke was 7/8 and then again when Sasuke was 13.He used the Tsukuyomi to show him their massacre for three days straight.
Gaara had it bad,but he found enjoyment in killing and somewhat got over his. Father and Uncle when he was like 7/8 right after his Uncle died.Sasuke was more close to Itachi then Yashamaru was to Gaara.Itachi took away everything from Sasuke - all their loved ones,he showed Sasuke him killing them over and over.Gaara didn't go through that.
Current Sasuke deos connect to his backstory - he wants to become the Hokage and change the messed up Shinobi world and System so no one will have to go through what he and his family did.How deos that not connect with his backstory of wanting to avenge he families death?
Lastly,you're making a big deal out of Sasuke recieving Info from Tobi and deciding to do what he decided to do. By your logic, anyone decides to do something from having talked to someone else is being manipulated as long as that other person planned what they would do.
Was my grammar good enough for you now? Or do you still want to nitpick at word placement and or typos,Mr.Perfect.
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Darth Uchiha
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WHAT IN THE HELL DO YOU CALL MANIPULATION, REALLY, WHAT'S YOUR DEFINITION, MIND CONTROL?!
And, how are you to judge that? Gaara thought that Yashamaru was the only person that cared about him, whereas Sasuke had a family. And no, Gaara didn't find joy in killing, he went insane and decided that if he couldn't be killed he deserved to live. That's not joy, that's delusion, but he was utterly miserable. And no, Gaara went through his own family trying to kill him, and the hate of the entire world for a crime he didn't commit, most people would say that's worse than seeing your family die.
And Sasuke doesn't even really want to change it, not with anything better, just with more shit. Also, unlike Gaara, he has people that wanted to help him, that would've supported him. At least Gaara had the balls to take the help, Gaara just shoved it away.
And, nah, it was still crap, your argument still is foolish in my eyes, I just wish it was easier to comprehend.
AlphaScythian
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So you think that asking kages to just leave their power nicely would be better?
What if they say no and raise their nations vs sasuke?
He is playing it smart. Same with biju.
What if they say no and raise their nations vs sasuke?
He is playing it smart. Same with biju.
Darth Uchiha
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WalksInShadows
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yeah, because this isn't full of bias at all
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TrollingSage
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And what gives Sasuke the right to ask them to step down. Who died and made him King of the world.
