[Discussion] Admiral vs Yonko

TheAncientCenturion

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A persons pride and ego aren't proof of their abilities but if you want to use it that way sure.
So I guess Kizaru and Akainu were just extremely prideful, despite experiencing a Yonko crew in the past and neither seeming anything but level headed?
Do I need to remind that both of them knew that the marines were stalking them and they didn't care?
That's good. Linlin is mentally deficient (her dream and her general attitude is more than proof of this) and Kaido is a violent alcoholic. Their mindsets hardly matter.
 

SaitamaSanji

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It's still his ego talking, to think he could take out a Yonko and crew on without other Admirals helping him, especially a yonko said to be the go to bet in 1v1 fights. And your part about Admirals not fearing Yonko is exactly my point of pride/ego.
so u think somehow shogun's words were not filled with ego/pride bt only kizaru's words were ego? lol ok.and here i said he only needed to stop 1 yonkou and the scenario's worst case would be them meeting up.worst case won't always happen and even if it were to happen its not like a top tier can be killed that easily.that's this argument was all abt.admirals and yonkou are at same strength levels.if they were at same levels its not even an impossible task to intercept someone of their same level.if 2 top tier characters getting together then kizaru will obviously loose bt he can retreat without getting killed coz top tiers wont go down that easily.which is why i said akainu didnt let kizaru go only because of that third party.and with that third party that same worst scenario were to happen then kizaru wont even come back alive.
speaking of that ego/pride of kizaru i already gave u an example that kizaru wont simply underestimate opponents if they are actually strong even allies.thats y he admitted the strength of weevil and even marco(benn beckman too probably).that was not actually ego he volunteered because he was someone who could handle it(handling doesnt mean he will definitely succeed that's where u get mistaken).if actually took ego into count as u say then every yonkou are pretty much full of ego and pride too as they think they are invincible.does that mean everyone of their actions cant be counted as well? u may not remember bt admirals were never shown afraid of yonkou.even when shanks arrived at marineford admirals kept attacking luffy.they didnt even care at all abt shanks.if admirals at some point of the story was shown afraid of yonkou and only kizaru were to make such absurd statement then it can be considered as ego.bt the story never mentions as admirals being inferior to yonkou.wt i realize is that if yonkou were to talk trash abt WG or marines then its ok and all normal bt if the story shows admirals doing exact same thing bt somehow thats ego and pride? xD .so if that is the case then this argument will never end till oda himself show it through the story
 

chopstickchakra

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Well not exactly , its his duty of an admiral . I will have to read japanese raw because the sentences can be constructed as kizaru is cocky and ego problem . (online translation are usually maybe ill read viz and come back to you. What he actually said )

Kizaru views threat better he even he did not ben beckmann pointed gun at him when red hair pirates outnumbered him. In the end he is admiral so it was his duty to stop two yonkos from meeting each other.

He never said he will take down two of them by himself.
He offered to go and Sakazuki told him to stay though, that's not him doing his duty as he wasn't ordered he volunteered which is against his nature as it is. It was either arrogance/ego/pride where he thought he could beat one or both of them or he was making the offer knowing he wouldn't get approval which seems more fitting to his nature the more I think about it. This let's him appear to be eager to help while not doing anything at the same time.
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So I guess Kizaru and Akainu were just extremely prideful, despite experiencing a Yonko crew in the past and neither seeming anything but level headed?

That's good. Linlin is mentally deficient (her dream and her general attitude is more than proof of this) and Kaido is a violent alcoholic. Their mindsets hardly matter.
Akainu told him not to go. Kizaru believing he could take out a whole Yonko crew let alone the possibility of two on his own is pride in his ability arguably to a fault. We saw at MF even with a dying captain 1 Admiral wouldn't have been enough to stop them.
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so u think somehow shogun's words were not filled with ego/pride bt only kizaru's words were ego? lol ok.and here i said he only needed to stop 1 yonkou and the scenario's worst case would be them meeting up.worst case won't always happen and even if it were to happen its not like a top tier can be killed that easily.that's this argument was all abt.admirals and yonkou are at same strength levels.if they were at same levels its not even an impossible task to intercept someone of their same level.if 2 top tier characters getting together then kizaru will obviously loose bt he can retreat without getting killed coz top tiers wont go down that easily.which is why i said akainu didnt let kizaru go only because of that third party.and with that third party that same worst scenario were to happen then kizaru wont even come back alive.
speaking of that ego/pride of kizaru i already gave u an example that kizaru wont simply underestimate opponents if they are actually strong even allies.thats y he admitted the strength of weevil and even marco(benn beckman too probably).that was not actually ego he volunteered because he was someone who could handle it(handling doesnt mean he will definitely succeed that's where u get mistaken).if actually took ego into count as u say then every yonkou are pretty much full of ego and pride too as they think they are invincible.does that mean everyone of their actions cant be counted as well? u may not remember bt admirals were never shown afraid of yonkou.even when shanks arrived at marineford admirals kept attacking luffy.they didnt even care at all abt shanks.if admirals at some point of the story was shown afraid of yonkou and only kizaru were to make such absurd statement then it can be considered as ego.bt the story never mentions as admirals being inferior to yonkou.wt i realize is that if yonkou were to talk trash abt WG or marines then its ok and all normal bt if the story shows admirals doing exact same thing bt somehow thats ego and pride? xD .so if that is the case then this argument will never end till oda himself show it through the story
The shogun's boast wasn't egotistical because by definition egotistical means self-centered and the Shogun was bragging on the strength of someone else. Also as I said the Shoguns feelings have been more backed up by the manga than the idea Kizaru could beat a Yonko and his crew on his own.

If you still can't see why claiming to be able to handle a Yonko crew on his own let alone two is an egotistical thing to say I don't think we have anything left to discuss.
 
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Shanks

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He offered to go and Sakazuki told him to stay though, that's not him doing his duty as he wasn't ordered he volunteered which is against his nature as it is. It was either arrogance/ego/pride where he thought he could beat one or both of them or he was making the offer knowing he wouldn't get approval which seems more fitting to his nature the more I think about it. This let's him appear to be eager to help while not doing anything at the same time.
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Akainu told him not to go. Kizaru believing he could take out a whole Yonko crew let alone the possibility of two on his own is pride in his ability arguably to a fault. We saw at MF even with a dying captain 1 Admiral wouldn't have been enough to stop them.
Either way he would need batellion behind to stop a huge yonko fleet.


Why do you believe kizaru is coward ? He was one of the forefront fighters in marineford.

He understands the situation like anyone else that two yonko allying toghether is fatal.

If ego is part of a think big mom has huge one as well underrating strawhats and not executing jinbei even though he stated his wish to leave big mom crew.
 

SaitamaSanji

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The shogun's boast wasn't egotistical because by definition egotistical means self-centered and the Shogun was bragging on the strength of someone else. Also as I said the Shoguns feelings have been more backed up by the manga than the idea Kizaru could beat a Yonko and his crew on his own.

If you still can't see why claiming to be able to handle a Yonko crew on his own let alone two is an egotistical thing to say I don't think we have anything left to discuss.
u just proved wt i said though.wtever statement go for the favour of yonkou u will automatically take it into count bt somehow same thing happens with admirals then u all are like it was just circumstantial or ego or other excuses.shogun's nature itself showed us wt kind of a person he was.ofcoz he will boast abt his ally,his boss!.remember how trebol kept on boasting abt doflamingo??(we all know who took the L) yh thats part of ego as well to think ur side wont get defeated as u think ur boss is undefeatable.shogun pretty much underestimate anything as far as he thinks kaido will protect him.im pretty sure not even kaido thinks abt him that way

remember how shanks went to stop kaido to stop him meeting with wb? thats the same scenario which kizaru is talking abt.u are a top tier so u can put an interception to another top tier so that 2 top tier pirates wont get meet up.its the same reference given through manga to the reader to understand that admirals can handle matters on par with yonkou.bt wtever references were given it doesnt matter with u.since as far as it doesnt favor yonkou then u wont count it no matter wt.there are 2 ways.either we do count both of their statements or do not.bt here u take into count only 1 bt not both simply coz it isnt in the favour of yonkou :rolleyes::sneaky: bt yh if thats the case then there is nothing to discuss at all
 

chopstickchakra

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u just proved wt i said though.wtever statement go for the favour of yonkou u will automatically take it into count bt somehow same thing happens with admirals then u all are like it was just circumstantial or ego or other excuses.shogun's nature itself showed us wt kind of a person he was.ofcoz he will boast abt his ally,his boss!.remember how trebol kept on boasting abt doflamingo??(we all know who took the L) yh thats part of ego as well to think ur side wont get defeated as u think ur boss is undefeatable.shogun pretty much underestimate anything as far as he thinks kaido will protect him.im pretty sure not even kaido thinks abt him that way

remember how shanks went to stop kaido to stop him meeting with wb? thats the same scenario which kizaru is talking abt.u are a top tier so u can put an interception to another top tier so that 2 top tier pirates wont get meet up.its the same reference given through manga to the reader to understand that admirals can handle matters on par with yonkou.bt wtever references were given it doesnt matter with u.since as far as it doesnt favor yonkou then u wont count it no matter wt.there are 2 ways.either we do count both of their statements or do not.bt here u take into count only 1 bt not both simply coz it isnt in the favour of yonkou :rolleyes::sneaky: bt yh if thats the case then there is nothing to discuss at all
Looks like we're done here since you can't see the difference between the author putting an expose in the manga telling us bet on Kaido i n1v1 and a character in-story believing he can beat him on his own.
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Either way he would need batellion behind to stop a huge yonko fleet.


Why do you believe kizaru is coward ? He was one of the forefront fighters in marineford.

He understands the situation like anyone else that two yonko allying toghether is fatal.

If ego is part of a think big mom has huge one as well underrating strawhats and not executing jinbei even though he stated his wish to leave big mom crew.
He would need more than a battalion he would need another Admiral. At MF the Marines had to fight 1 Yonko, who was dying and his crew and it took all they had. Even if you argue it was overkill, it was shown ample times that if only one Admiral had been there they wouldn't have been able to stop everyone. So what makes it different now?

You're saying a single Admiral and a bunch of grunts around Doberman/Smoker level could stop a Yonko from meeting with another. Nothing in the manga has supported this idea not even MF.

When did I say he was a coward? You should try sticking to the definitions of the words used. Kizaru is "lazy" and nonchalant similar to Aokiji, both showed that they'll do what's asked but they don't like going above and beyond.

You say that like it means anything to the discussion. Yes all big name pirates have an ego(with maybe the exception of Shanks) WB had ego/pride when he stopped taking his medicine before the war, Garp showed ego when he told Sengoku not to let him go or he'd kill Akainu, these are examples of when someone believes their strength will get them through something when there is no evidence to support it same as the notion that Kizaru could stop 1 or 2 Yonko on his own.
 
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Skull Knight

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If Admirals are not terrified of Yonkos then why do u think they send fleet to stop Shanks meeting WB?
Why do they need Shichibukais?
Even when WB jumped of the ship Sengoku was warning others that WB is on the move. A sick WB could cause so much damage to MF then its hard to.imagine what others could have done.
 

AwakenedSama

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He would need more than a battalion he would need another Admiral. At MF the Marines had to fight 1 Yonko, who was dying and his crew and it took all they had.
Fear not my friend, the current Admiral of the Fleet has already proven an extreme level of superiority over Whitebeard

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So your theory of the marines “using overkill to ensure victory” is indeed accurate.

Additionally, Dog of the Red made Whitebeard have a heart attack and put a hole in him after 5 minutes of heavily restrained action, as Akainu only used his smaller attacks against Whitebeard:
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So I guess Kizaru and Akainu were just extremely prideful, despite experiencing a Yonko crew in the past and neither seeming anything but level headed?
Indeed, Dog of the Red and Monkey of the Yellow’s assessment of their own power is quite accurate. Based on each character’s feats of power, they would indeed defeat Big Mother with even the lowest amount of difficulty, and Kaido (even though he hasn’t shown all of his strength yet) hasn’t shown anything on the level of restrained Admirals that we have seen on panel.
 
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AwakenedSama

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Yeah no admiral is walking through first mate commander level people like Big mam does. Yonkous are obviously stronger
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Admirals have already walked off first mates with 0 issue. It’s the strongest Emperor who was beaten out of the sky by attacks that First Mates easily outclass.

Big Mother has never been forced to tank First Mate Level moves. In fact she barely held it together against Jinbe who is far from the first mate tier of power.

Admirals are much more durable than Yonko.
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Offensively

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Defensively


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The Admirals greatly outclass the ones known as the Four Emperors
 
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SaitamaSanji

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Admirals have already walked off first mates with 0 issue. It’s the strongest Emperor who was beaten out of the sky by attacks that First Mates easily outclass.

Big Mother has never been forced to tank First Mate Level moves. In fact she barely held it together against Jinbe who is far from the first mate tier of power.

Admirals are much more durable than Yonko.
good point on that big mom part.she even struggled against those weak straw hats.now they will probably say that big mom was weakened due the starvation and emotional rampage.bt wt they dnt remember is that akainu fought all of commanders and crocodile after tanking the strongest attack still shown in one piece while big mom struggled against jinbei.plus it even shows the stamina of a admiral is better than of big mom.if big mom was weakened just by that then imagine akainu v aokiji the battle which lasted 10 days.its not like they had any break or so.plus it was a fight between another admiral not just a rampage where u just destroy things on ur way.so big mom simply was weakened after rampaging and the rampage didnt even last till 10 days
 
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Skull Knight

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BM struggled against weak SHs. Thats new.
I thought she one shot Luffy when he went G4.
Let me check if i m reading correct manga lol.
 

AwakenedSama

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Big Mother did indeed get owned by Jinbe after using one of her signature named attacks, meanwhile Akainu one shot Jinbe with a unnamed attack.

That indeed shows the monstrous power gap between LinLin of the obese ones, and Sakazuki of the face wreckers.
 
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SaitamaSanji

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yh read the manga.that helps everyone a lot. plus i dnt see big mom one shotting chopper either :snickering:
 
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Skull Knight

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Lol why dont u post the chapter where luffy's G4 did nothing to BM.
Wait i guess Jinbei is now stronger than G4 luffy.
Even the cognac sent Jinbei flying. Even with the sea advantage the best he can do was push BM out of the ship n yet she was on top of them next chapter. If sanji hadn't come with the Cake they all would have been toast unless u think Chopper>BM lol
 

SaitamaSanji

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and the myth of big mom one shotting g4 luffy.anime may hv shown it differently bt in manga u can see luffy worn off becoz of the toll he had using g4 not because of big mom blocking him.last time i checked no kind of block can put a damage on the opponent
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the point was simple.she struggled to damage those weak straw hats and that's a fact.if someone get it as chopper>big mom yh such a good brain lmao
 
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AwakenedSama

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and the myth of big mom one shotting g4 luffy.anime may hv shown it differently bt in manga u can see luffy worn off becoz of the toll he had using g4 not because of big mom blocking him.last time i checked no kind of block can put a damage on the opponent
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the point was simple.she struggled to damage those weak straw hats and that's a fact.if someone get it as chopper>big mom yh such a good brain lmao
Big Mother has to use Flame Haki to stop Bound Man, and her arm still rattled against the Fourth Gear.

Meanwhile Akainu blocks attacks from the Gura Gura no Mi weilding Whitebeard while Akainu has his hands in his pockets without using Haki, and doesn’t appear to be strained in any way.

It’s clear that Akainu, even without his Devil Fruit, is far stronger than little LinLin.
 

Skull Knight

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Big Mother has to use Flame Haki to stop Bound Man, and her arm still rattled against the Fourth Gear.

Meanwhile Akainu blocks attacks from the Gura Gura no Mi weilding Whitebeard while Akainu has his hands in his pockets without using Haki, and doesn’t appear to be strained in any way.

It’s clear that Akainu, even without his Devil Fruit, is far stronger than little LinLin.
Stop trolling.
Luffys G4 did nothing to her. She wasn't even pushed back like a certain admiral cough Fujitora.
So nice try.
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Its even funny that the other troll is debating that BM did nothing to weaker SHs when she baby shake Brook at library :lmao:
 

AwakenedSama

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Stop trolling.
Luffys G4 did nothing to her. She wasn't even pushed back like a certain admiral cough Fujitora.
So nice try.
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Its even funny that the other troll is debating that BM did nothing to weaker SHs when she baby shake Brook at library :lmao:
Jinbe sent Big Mother Flying, but was unable to bypass Akainu’s intangibility, so this must mean Jinbe is much stronger than a Yonko, but still much weaker than an Admiral.

Which is probably accurate given the humongous gap between the mere Yonko and the mighty Admirals

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Also, Fujitora troll diffed Sabo but Big Mom got overwhelmed by Jinbe. We can again see gross gap in power between Fujitora and Big Mother. If they actually fought, Fujitora would win with minimum difficulty.
 
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