3T Itachi vs Neji
- Thread starter Haizaki
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I feel like you're being over-analytical as these points are inconsistent. The emphasis on both eyes which you noted was them using their Sharingans to envision all of the shurikens and counter, here is absolutely no way he could look away during such an intense moment and stay alive. Makes literally no sense whatsoever. Second of all, it couldn't have been a Genjutsu as Itachi's Genjutsu only works by mimicking reality. How could he know Sasuke had the ability to release snakes directly from his body
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in the genjutsu world if he hadn't seen it before; ever. Hence the only way for Sasuke to have believed it was for it to be an ability of his, and Itachi not knowing of that ability means it wasn't Genjutsu in the first place. When Itachi blitzes however, you can see the actual emphasis on eye contact between Itachi's MS and Sasuke's Sharingan [
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]. Itachi states I put you in my Tsukiyomi to mimic your eyes becoming mine in reality. So if anything the entire point of Tsukiyomi was just that; what happened after the blitz, Itachi taking Sasuke's eyes. It is the only actual indication of Tsukiyomi's initiation, so it's the most plausible option for when it happened. There's also these two outliers [
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][
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]. The first one there is no direct shurikens behind him but many around him for some reason. The second one Sasuke is behind ALL of the shurikens even though he didn't move from the previous page. So if anything my argument stands much stronger since it makes more sense and is more consistent. Although if these 2 examples didn't happen I guess it could be 50/50.
Forbidden Technique
Active member
@AC You and trans made nice arguments..Very analytical
First of all you have understand that's the ability of the Byakugan to see through. The Byakugan itself is an eye ability so once the eye is blocked from any angle, it can still use the insight ability of the Byakugan to see through even though that eyes is blocked. Which is why Ten Ten refers to it to be able to sense
For example take a look at Kakashi who burrowed the Sharingan..He has it active every time. Let's look at Ao, he has one eye which he stole and that exactly like Neji's since it has the white iris white no pupil(At least one we can't see). His other eyes are normal which is his own eye so let me point it out to you:
- Ao has a Byakugan which he covers but the insight ability is always inactive.
- Ao couldn't see right through whatever was covering his eye. However when he activated the Byakugan's ability, he could.
This is Ao with a stolen eye..There's a difference when he activates the ability itself:
Which is why Neji couldn't see Naruto from underground coming to punch him when he deactivated the ability of his eyes.
The ability when activated grants you not only insight but 360 vision which is why I said for you to say when he can be hit with a Genjutsu when he completely covers his eyes with a headband because of his insight ability of his eyes, then you must logically conclude that Itachi can land a Genjutsu from behind his head or from above his head or from ridiculous angles that don't make sense because Neji can see those places with the granted ability of his eyes.
@Apex, Not going to even bother arguing with you if you're going to chuck it up to inconsistency after it happening accordingly with how I pointed each and every step and some factors that lead use to believe it was indeed but then you supposedly expect me to listen to you regarding the Genjutsu being formed when Itachi ran to Sasuke and kicked Sasuke to the side of his chair even though we see both never moved from the spot they were in after the Genjutsu? Smh.
Even Zetsu said it was time for a straight up fight implying most of those physical fight were unreal
Lol you stated it better which is why I used those exact words but you somehow still don't understand?
First of all you have understand that's the ability of the Byakugan to see through. The Byakugan itself is an eye ability so once the eye is blocked from any angle, it can still use the insight ability of the Byakugan to see through even though that eyes is blocked. Which is why Ten Ten refers to it to be able to sense
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For example take a look at Kakashi who burrowed the Sharingan..He has it active every time. Let's look at Ao, he has one eye which he stole and that exactly like Neji's since it has the white iris white no pupil(At least one we can't see). His other eyes are normal which is his own eye so let me point it out to you:
- Ao has a Byakugan which he covers but the insight ability is always inactive.
- Ao couldn't see right through whatever was covering his eye. However when he activated the Byakugan's ability, he could.
This is Ao with a stolen eye..There's a difference when he activates the ability itself:
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Which is why Neji couldn't see Naruto from underground coming to punch him when he deactivated the ability of his eyes.
The ability when activated grants you not only insight but 360 vision which is why I said for you to say when he can be hit with a Genjutsu when he completely covers his eyes with a headband because of his insight ability of his eyes, then you must logically conclude that Itachi can land a Genjutsu from behind his head or from above his head or from ridiculous angles that don't make sense because Neji can see those places with the granted ability of his eyes.
@Apex, Not going to even bother arguing with you if you're going to chuck it up to inconsistency after it happening accordingly with how I pointed each and every step and some factors that lead use to believe it was indeed but then you supposedly expect me to listen to you regarding the Genjutsu being formed when Itachi ran to Sasuke and kicked Sasuke to the side of his chair even though we see both never moved from the spot they were in after the Genjutsu? Smh.
Even Zetsu said it was time for a straight up fight implying most of those physical fight were unreal
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and i don't even need this to confirm anything based on what I've shown you.
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Forbidden Technique
Active member
I understood what you were saying. I simply wanted to you to prove it, rather then just stating it. I said if what you were saying is true, then I'd concede. But you never actually proved it, which is why I asked you to do so. An ordinary humans field of vision, is around 180 degrees. Yet, they still possess a focus point. I still don't see any reason to believe that the Byakugan doesn't possess a focus point, just because it's 360 degree field of vision ability.
You're claiming that while something is covering the Byakugan, the ordinary eye's focus point is blocked, while all the user sees is the Byakugans specific 360 vision ability, correct?
Ao's Byakugan eye while activated behind the eyepatch:
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Ao's vision behind the eye patch with the Byakugan:
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That can't possibly be true, because Ao's vision isn't 360 in the above panel. He is literally focusing his Byakugan's vision on Danzo. So I still see no reason why Neji won't get caught in genjutsu if he's A) Within the visual genjutsu's range, and B) focuses his sight on Itachi's eyes. It doesn't matter if Itachi can't see his eyes, because he couldn't possibly see Bee's eyes either. If someone looks into an Uchihas eyes while they're initiating genjutsu, they're getting caught.
How far can an ordinary eye see? I only said you put it in better words when you said no focus point because it sees all around with the same particular ability. I'll prove you wrong below that whatever it is, Neji's eye is the same all around which is why I don't believe there's a particular focus point.
No...This panel only shows us Danzo but never debunks the fact that his vision is 360. It only shows a portion of his vision which doesn't mean that he's can't.
Manga specially states Neji's 360 vision is a combination of penetrating sight and telescopic vision which he showed against Danzo
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They all in all work together so your scan doesn't debunk my claim because Ao looking at Danzo was just a portion of the ability. Who said his vision wasn't 360?
I already showed you a scan of Neji's looking in front of him but still being able to see Kisame....Kidomaru said Neji cannot react to attacks he can't see in the middle panel
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. Neji dodged several of those attacks despite looking forward aside his blindspot
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which means the position it seems his eye is directed at doesn't necessarily mean that's where the focus is. Which is why I said there's really no focus point. There's a reason why Kidomaruo refers to it as a seeing technique. The Byakugan itself is the insight ability though I get what you mean with this focus point but there's every reason to believe he can counter a Genjutsu since if he focuses his eye behind his head, he won't be hit..Same logic shouldn't be applicable to his frontal position being blocked. Neji doesn't need to worry about it because without particular focus on Itachi's eyes, hell still see him like he can from behind his head. Which is why Naruto despite with clones questioned if Neji could see from behind his head
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. If we're going to stick by this focus point, then I can even argue that Neji can focus his eye upwards or downwards but that won't change the fact that he can still see Itachi and combat him since he fall within his eye range. See why I said this focus point holds 0 ground? Ten Ten refers to it as a sensing once in its range which makes sense because we see characters with no eyes but the ability to sense and still being able to fight in a CQC due to this sensing ability.
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Forbidden Technique
Active member
I think you misunderstood me though. I wasn't implying that Ao doesn't possess 360 vision with his Byakugan. I was stating that in that particular scan, he was focusing his sight on Danzou, despite the fact that his eye was blocked. You said that if a Hyuga were to block his eyesight (via a headand, or closing the eyes) then all he/she would be seeing is the 360 vision, because the focus point would be blocked. That is untrue, as shown in the scenario with Ao. His eyes are blocked, yet he was able to focus his sight on Danzo, rather then it only being a 360 sight. I'm basically saying that when the Byakugan's eyes are blocked, they are in fact able to focus their vision still.
@ bold, if there is no focus point, then what you're suggesting to me is that the Hyuga are completley immune to visual genjutsu. Thus, there wouldn't even be any need for taking these extra precautions in order to avoid it. My opinion is, despite the fact that they can see 360 degrees, they're still able to focus their sight on something (there are many examples in the manga of them doing so).
It's essentially like, you're looking at and focusing on the computer screen in front of you, but you still obviously have a much wider view of sight (around 180 degrees). And you can look and focus at anything within that 180 degrees of vision. The same applies with the Hyuga, but their range of view is 360, rather then 180. They can specifically look at and focus on anything within that 360 field of vision. Looking at and seeing are two different things. You can see something, but doesn't necessarily mean you're looking at it. Hyuga can see 360 degrees, but can only look at (or focus) on one thing at a time. That's the point I'm trying to make to you.
Neji can
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with his vision, but was specifically
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on each of the seals individually.
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Too kill any and all your post. Why would he or any Byakugan User make DIRECT EYE TO EYE CONTACT? Do you think All sharingan users can automatically catch a ninja in genjutsu by them only making eye contact? No bro, Sharingan genjutsu works by using Direct eye to eye; as in you look directly into my pupil and i look directly into your pupil. Manga fact otherwise any and all the ninjas who has ever fought a sharingan user would always be in genjutsu.
Fact 1: Itachi would never know if he is looking directly into his pupils to know when to cast genjutsu.
Fact 2: Byakugan can have there eyes facing th egroung but still see every thing perfectly thus eliminating genjutsu 10000% (based on your flawed logic on your terms).
Fact 3: Byakugan will always know when you will attempt it, and thus slightly move there eyes any direction.
Fact 4: Itachi will waste chakra
Fact 5: Itachi wouldn't even attempt direct eye to eye genjutsu on a closed eye opponent, he is too smart to hope something will work.
And based on your logic since Naruto can sense (and see) everyone in sage mode does that mean with his eyes closed he gets caught in genjutsu?
Unorthodox
Active member
SMH They made a thread talking about 3 tomoe itachi defeats Hebi Sasuke yet somehow Neji is a match people on narutobase kill me
Like I told you in VM's, I understand what you mean now. I think the main misunderstanding came from the 360 vision aspect which I probably stated wrongly or didn't explain properly. What I mean exactly is this in general is the ability aspect of the eyes.
For example, you agree with me that Neji can focus on Itachi if he stands behind Neji's head right? Agreed? But are you going to say Itachi can land a Genjutsu on Neji from behind his head? Because that's the only logical conclusion.
In the scan you showed, notice that it only shows a large forest and then in the next panel, Neji says "found them" before we get a general insight on where they were located. Look at the focus line in the scan and you'll notice the focus( Focus Lines with Neji's eyes and the large forest but not with the seals). What we can deduct from that scan was that Neji found them all at once at the same time then gave the information on where they were located. That doesn't show that he was looking at each seal individually. He was explaining to Gai and the others the range and were they were located. If not, we should actually get the same lines to indicate the same focus on each single one. Not to mention those seals would naturally appear before his range and he doesn't need to further look for each individually so he indeed found them all at once and then explained the location to the others.
If you were truly correct that it was were he focused his eyes, then we would be shown the seals individually before he said "found them" or we'll be getting the same insight lines we got in the previous panels to indicate that he was actually looking at them individually. Rather he says found them after the looks at the forest indicating he found them all at once.
Another thing you should notice is Neji looking right to his front and the eyes shown to be right behind him in that scan you just showed. This is why I said regardless of the focus, it's the ability of the eyes. Let's now assume you're correct, you'll see that the Genjutsu point still backfires since Neji according to you in that scan focused his eyes from his back to see those seals individually looking at that scan. That means as long as the focus is there, Itachi can hit Neji with a Genjutsu just by looking at the back of his head. However that doesn't make sense since it should be applicable to every where because it's the ability of the eyes that grants his the insight and degree of vision. Which is why I said if you suggest Neji with his eyes closed/covered and still seeing Itachi via the ability of the eyes can be hit, then you'd have to accept Itachi can hit him with a Genjutsu from behind/above his head and other ridiculous angle. The ability should not be applicable to the normal eyes because even when you bring that in, there are contradictions because I believe you've been looking at it from one view which is his front.
Tough situation? he changes his focus but still sees him and battles just like how Naruto questioned if he had eyes behind.
@haizaki you attribute it to shuriken placement, but I clearly showed you two inconsistent Shuriken placements? What's there to argue? Your point relied on the fact that everytime shurikens were dhown they were behind Sasuke, but outside of Genjutsu it was in front. I disproved it by showing it wasn't consistent, so we are back to square one. What's the ONLY eye contact emphasis point? The one that occured AFTER the blitz, notthe one you suggested which didn't represent eye contact at all.