3T Itachi vs Neji

[Beans2]

Sure.

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1. Where is it stated he needs to look at the finger? Itachi trapped Naruto again and he was not looking at his finger nor eyes.

2. Where is it stated that you need one of the five senses to put someone in genjutsu? Itachi has literally stated that there is one that requires none of the five senses, which is Izanami.

Sasuke was distracted by the crows...

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"It must have been then!"=Naruto had looked at Itachi's finger. Jiraiya explains that genjutsu works through the opponent's five senses here [

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]. Yes Izanami works through the opponent's senses, as

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himself.

 

[Haizaki]

Responded to this guy saying it was a Genjutsu yet he shows the same scan..Christ.

@AC I'll respond after a while.

 

[Draegod]

Bro if it's a party I can get an invite if you need me to! Or I'll let you shut this party down solo dolo! Haha

 

[Rιver]

Sasuke was distracted by the crows...

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"It must have been then!"=Naruto had looked at Itachi's finger. Jiraiya explains that genjutsu works through the opponent's five senses here [

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]. Yes Izanami works through the opponent's senses, as

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himself.

And? Same happens to Neji here.

Lml. It works by affecting your opponents senses. Ever seen an instance where one uses genjutsu but no senses are affected? Right. We are talking about medium now. You do not need the five senses to always accomplish genjutsu.

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Lml again. Izanami uses users own bodily sensation. Not really through senses. Itachi explained already, that you need to replicate a same scenario twice and remember it like photograph. The opponent himself is not needed. So that doesn't connect to the opponent at all. Itachi was only replying to Sasuke, because Sasuke was wondering how he did it and explained his scenario where he also memorized Kabuto. But he didn't have to.

But once again, this is also irrelevant due to the fact that we are talking about Sharingan when I'm talking about Ephemeral. Naruto got caught again, which destroys your point. You also haven't proven as to how he ever evades a blitz from Itachi. So point stays moot.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Bro if it's a party I can get an invite if you need me to! Or I'll let you shut this party down solo dolo! Haha

You should treat this thread like a Zero vs anybody match in UMvC3. Get in dat' ass and stay in it!

 

[Beans2]

And? Same happens to Neji here.

For your strategy to work, Itachi would first have to make a clone and then have it disperse into crows. From 4m Neji can stop that from happening or use rotation to counter the crows. Regardless, a genjutsu blitz isn't happening because Neji can close his eyes and activate Byakugan...even though I've already agreed that Itachi wins mid diff.

AND NOT TO MENTION...THAT WAS INSIDE A GENJUTSU...why am i arguing this.

Lml. It works by affecting your opponents senses. Ever seen an instance where one uses genjutsu but no senses are affected? Right. We are talking about medium now. You do not need the five senses to always accomplish genjutsu.

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Lml again. Izanami uses users own bodily sensation. Not really through senses. Itachi explained already, that you need to replicate a same scenario twice and remember it like photograph. The opponent himself is not needed. So that doesn't connect to the opponent at all. Itachi was only replying to Sasuke, because Sasuke was wondering how he did it and explained his scenario where he also memorized Kabuto. But he didn't have to.

Itachi's already stated Izanami works using yours and your opponent's senses. Bodily sensation = the sense of feeling = one of the 5 senses. Manga's statement> your interpretation. Jiraiya states genjutsu works by affecting your opponent's five senses to disturb their internal chakra, so again that confirms my point.

And even if you're right about Izanami, lol, Itachi says he can bypass the senses "in exchange for their own eyesight." meaning a jutsu like Izanami would be an exception due to loss of eyesight. Nowhere did you actually give proof that finger genjutsu doesn't need your opponent to look at Itachi's finger.

But once again, this is also irrelevant due to the fact that we are talking about Sharingan when I'm talking about Ephemeral. Naruto got caught again, which destroys your point. You also haven't proven as to how he ever evades a blitz from Itachi. So point stays moot.

Why am i still arguing with you when you are attempting to go against manga. when did Naruto get caught again? I hope to god you aren't referring to

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because naruto looked directly into the crow's eye.

 

[Haizaki]

Don't really see how Neji manages to tag Itachi considering how capable the latter is with Genjutsu alongside his extremely fast Shunshin which should be sufficient to escape any attempts at attack from Neji. I could see Itachi ending this fight with Ephemeral which is not really limited to a finger as Itachi has stated before. ''If I have only one finger, that is enough.'' <- The context he uses the word ''finger'' in implies Itachi could use Ephemeral with any body part he wishes to use it with, hence why he states that just having one finger is enough. Neji doesn't really have knowledge of this and I see him getting caught due to it.

Yes I don't think either would outright blitz the other based on portrayal and common sense which we both have. Genjutsu? Nah.

Especially considering the intel being full and the fact that Itachi would have to build up chakra to do so...Meanwhile all Neji needs to do is prevent eye contact which is not a problem.

- The Byakugan is capable of seeing Chakra build up as we both know. Itachi needs Chakra build up to cast his Genjutsu.
- All Neji needs to to do is fight with his eye lid closed which is pretty easy. That blocks eye contact
- Another solution is to pull his headband to his eye level like Kakashi does...Not up to a second. That would prevent eye contact but won't stop the Byakugan from seeing through (Bottom panel)

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I mean, if we're talking about pure speed, this could easily end with a clone blitzing close to him and then blowing up before he could react. Itachi should be aware of Byakugan's powers and that they most likely come with a weakness. He could use clones along side his kunai usage - i.e. bouncing them off of each other and them coming at Neji from various directions - and crow summonings to replicate what the spider guy who's name escapes me did against Neji with spiders when he figured out his blindspot. Attacks from all sides, essentially.

Air Palm can push the clone running at him back? The clone is much weaker than Itachi and speed shouldn't be an issue when reacting to a clone. Plus the Byakugan should enable him see and differentiate the clone from the real one since Itachi wouldn't be putting half of his chakra into an exploding clone(Massive waste) and then he'll be creating clones and summonings and using other Jutsus? with half of his chakra? Refer to this scan where Neji points out the successful strategy to fooling his eyes (Middle panel)

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If it's not half, Neji can detect the real Itachi.

The location is also terribly bad for Itachi to pull of Kido's style...Remember Kido took advantage of the Byakugan's Range which was 50M. Part 2 Neji can now see as far as 800M which means in such a location, I don't see Itachi easily playing hide and seek.

Crows summoning can easily be countered via Air palm preventing what's in Neji...Byakugan's insight surpasses that of the Sharingan and I'm not entirely sure if those cows would be a good strategy for the Shurikens since they'll obstruct Itachi Shruriken attacks as a matter of fact.

Bro if it's a party I can get an invite if you need me to! Or I'll let you shut this party down solo dolo! Haha

Lmaoo my niguh...Couple birds think it's a stomp but I don't believe it is. I think it would mostly be a CQC since I don't believe neither would blitz the other. They're both pretty matched according to Kishi in terms of Taijutsu.

The starting distance is irrelevant. 3T Itachi beats Neji mid diff.

Neji isn't getting blitzed with his reaction feats and striking speed he can land a mutual strike in Cqc. A genjutsu blitz can be countered by activating Byakugan and shutting his eyes so he sees Itachi's chakra network and points even with his eyes closed. However Itachi willhave no difficulty reaching a distance and using crow clones and katon to make an opening, plus Neji can't fight the whole battle with his eyes closed.

Finally reasonable points rather than this BS about beliefs and all.

I don't think any of them would blitz the other...I also brought in this about Genjutsu:

- He can see chakra build up for a Genjutsu so it shouldn't be a problem for him to close his eye lid at the right time.

- Another solution is to pull his headband to his eye level like Kakashi does...Not up to a second. That would prevent eye contact but won't stop the Byakugan from seeing through (Bottom panel)

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I still fail to see the stomp...The Katon can be counter via rotation but realistically, any other outside attacks trying to exploit Kaiten can be blocked like Kido's attack was

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--->

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If not, Air palm isn't a bad strategy at all.

@BAC , Ignore that lil kid..He still bought it up even though I showed him it was lmao

 

[Kingu]

Itachi can put someone in a genjutsu outside of a sensory ninja sensor range.

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[Rιver]

Last post.

For your strategy to work, Itachi would first have to make a clone and then have it disperse into crows. From 4m Neji can stop that from happening or use rotation to counter the crows. Regardless, a genjutsu blitz isn't happening because Neji can close his eyes and activate Byakugan...even though I've already agreed that Itachi wins mid diff.

AND NOT TO MENTION...THAT WAS INSIDE A GENJUTSU...why am i arguing this.

Lml, this isn't a genjutsu blitz but kunai blitz. Also, Itachi can summon the crows himself, which is why the crows appeared in the first place.

I hope you're not suggesting that Itachi had any control over the genjutsu. He lost the battle. That means he can't alter the dimension as he likes unless the opposition allows you to.

Itachi's already stated Izanami works using yours and your opponent's senses. Bodily sensation = the sense of feeling = one of the 5 senses. Manga's statement> your interpretation. Jiraiya states genjutsu works by affecting your opponent's five senses to disturb their internal chakra, so again that confirms my point.

And even if you're right about Izanami, lol, Itachi says he can bypass the senses "in exchange for their own eyesight." meaning a jutsu like Izanami would be an exception due to loss of eyesight. Nowhere did you actually give proof that finger genjutsu doesn't need your opponent to look at Itachi's finger.

Wow, do I have to break down the jutsu? In the scan I posted, Itachi states this:

"Uchiha's eyes have the power to affect the opponent regardless of the five senses"

And yes, what you said does contradict this. But when he literally further breaks down the jutsu, where he states you need your bodily sensation to activate the jutsu it enforces my argument. So it's basically 2-1 here. I'm probably gonna go with the previous statement then.

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Why am i still arguing with you when you are attempting to go against manga. when did Naruto get caught again? I hope to god you aren't referring to

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because naruto looked directly into the crow's eye.

In the genjutsu? Yeah. Before that? Not really. The fact that crows appeared tells that he was already in genjutsu. Probably not, but again zero evidences from your sides suggests he looked the crows eye before the genjutsu.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Closing eyes isn't a proper counter to visual genjutsu. It blocks a Hyugas eyes, but it doesn't block their eyesight. Just like how Killer Bee's dark shades block his eyes, but doesn't block his eyesight (yet got caught in visual genjutsu twice). Eyelids would be no different, when Neji sees through them as if they weren't even there.

 

[Haizaki]

Closing eyes isn't a proper counter to visual genjutsu. It blocks a Hyugas eyes, but it doesn't block their eyesight. Just like how Killer Bee's dark shades block his eyes, but doesn't block his eyesight (yet got caught in visual genjutsu twice). Eyelids would be no different, when Neji sees through them as if they weren't even there.

Even headbands? Say he resorts to his headband like how Kakashi does when covering his Sharingan.

Now if there's a closed door in between Itachi and Neji an eye genjutsu won't be hitting Neji just because his Byakugan has the power to see through the door. It's the benefit of the insight and I doubt Itachi would be trying to use a Genjutsu on him in such a scenario. This is a different case of eye to eye since the Byakugan's ability is what's at play and not just an eye to eye contact.

 

[Draegod]

Closing eyes isn't a proper counter to visual genjutsu. It blocks a Hyugas eyes, but it doesn't block their eyesight. Just like how Killer Bee's dark shades block his eyes, but doesn't block his eyesight (yet got caught in visual genjutsu twice). Eyelids would be no different, when Neji sees through them as if they weren't even there.

Horrible horrible example! Sunshades does not block sight it dimmers the light exposed. Closing your eye lids comepletely blocks all sight from the world period! It's a reason why two elite joinin Closed there eyes when a Sharingan user (that itachi praised himself) said:

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This is manga and life facts that isn't even debateable! sharingan needs DIRECT EYE TO EYE CONTACT! Period!

 

[Draegod]

Even headbands? Say he resorts to his headband like how Kakashi does when covering his Sharingan.

Now if there's a closed door in between Itachi and Neji an eye genjutsu won't be hitting Neji just because his Byakugan has the power to see through the door. It's the benefit of the insight and I doubt Itachi would be trying to use a Genjutsu on him in such a scenario. This is a different case of eye to eye since the Byakugan's ability is what's at play and not just an eye to eye contact.

Exactly bro, his analogy makes zero sense! the sharingan genjutsu works by placing there chakra in said opponent through eye to eye. If the Eye is blocked by anything the genjutsu will not work. Simple fact of the manga. The Byakugan's ability to see through things is the byakugan ability to see through things, it doesn't make his eye lid or wall or mountain some how not exist and disapear for Sharingan genjutsu to magically ignore solid mass and cast genjutsu.

 

[Transcendence]

The starting distance is irrelevant. 3T Itachi beats Neji mid diff.

Neji isn't getting blitzed with his reaction feats and striking speed he can land a mutual strike in Cqc. A genjutsu blitz can be countered by activating Byakugan and shutting his eyes so he sees Itachi's chakra network and points even with his eyes closed. However Itachi willhave no difficulty reaching a distance and using crow clones and katon to make an opening, plus Neji can't fight the whole battle with his eyes closed.

You spelled low difficulty wrong.

Blitzing isn't really a viable argument, but you're really selling Itachi short here. Hebi Sasuke, someone with superior precognition and better reaction feats at that point in time (of when it happened), was BARELY able to react to Itachi's Shunshin, to the point where it caught him off guard. No need for a Genjutsu blitz in the slightest. Itachi doesn't even need eye contact for Neji to be paralyzed in to place. He can look away all he wants. Ephemeral alone places Neji in a Genjutsu before he even realizes it, and by the time he even has a chance to realize it, he'll already be decapitated. Seeing Itachi's chakra network won't do any good for him. At best, it helps him sense the build up of MS techniques, but that's not even coming in to play here. 3T Genjutsu or Ephemeral end Neji. Clone swapping with an exploding clone at that distance is also feasible given that Sasuke, someone with superior pre cog and "reading" (as in being able to see what one is doing) with his Dojutsu, can't even realize how fast Itachi uses the clone jutsu. Swapping is done in no time and Neji takes an explosion to the face.

OT: Itachi low difficulty.

 

[Char Aznable]

This entire debate hinges on whether sharingan visual genjutsu can even work on a bykugan user. Theoretically, the byakugan should see through genjutsu, the same way the sharingan and rinnegan do. Hinata's byakugan was stated to detect genjutsu, but we've never seen anyone cast a genjutsu on a Hyuga.

Also keep in mind how genjutsu works, specifically the finger genjutsu Itachi fappers love to bring up.

This scan from chapter 366 explains what happened back in chapter 257 and 258

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Itachi had already wove the signs for a genjutsu in chapter 257, but he didn't unleash it until he pointed at Naruto. It's why Kakashi told everyone to avoid direct eye contact with Itachi and probably why Guy advised Asuma and Kurenai to look at a sharigan users feet, when attempting to fight them.

This pose right here is when you know Itachi is about to cast a genjutsu.

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It's the same pose he makes when he traps Kabuto in Izanami in chapter.

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He puts the fingers to his face, and you can still see both his mangekyou.

Next page though.

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Itachi's left eye is blank and Kabuto is caught in a loop.


Keep in mind that Izanami is an exception in terms of genjutsu. It doesn't affect your senses. Sight: Kabuto's eyes were covered, Touch: sharingan genjutsu isn't cast by touch, Sound: Itachi didn't use sound genjutsu, Taste and Smell: neither have anything to do with ocular genjutsu.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Even headbands? Say he resorts to his headband like how Kakashi does when covering his Sharingan.

Now if there's a closed door in between Itachi and Neji an eye genjutsu won't be hitting Neji just because his Byakugan has the power to see through the door. It's the benefit of the insight and I doubt Itachi would be trying to use a Genjutsu on him in such a scenario. This is a different case of eye to eye since the Byakugan's ability is what's at play and not just an eye to eye contact.

What difference does it make? They practically have

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vision. Neji would be literally seeing right through his eyelids as if nothing was even blocking his eyes. In order to counter genjutsu, Kabuto had to

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and rely on

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. In this case, Neji isn't blocking his eyesight at all, regardless if it's an ability granted by the Byakugan. It's still his eyesight, is it not? If it's the Byakugans ability of insight that stops all visual genjutsu from working, then what's the point of even closing their eyes in the first place then? Are you implying to me that in order for the Byakugans ability to activate, one must first close their eyes? Regardless if their eye's are open or closed, the Byakugan is still functioning the same way.

Horrible horrible example! Sunshades does not block sight

...Jesus Christ.

Just like how Killer Bee's dark shades block his eyes, but doesn't block his eyesight.

Read please.

Closing your eye lids comepletely blocks all sight from the world period!

Yeah Draegod?

Spoiler

Based on the common knowledge and Sharingan in general, Hiashi would either:

1. Close his eyes and Fight the sharingan with X-ray vision and still perfectly be able to fight as if his eyes were open.

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It's a reason why two elite joinin Closed there eyes when a Sharingan user (that itachi praised himself) said:

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Didn't know Asuma and Kurenai possessed the Byakugan with x-ray vision. That's news to me.

This is manga and life facts that isn't even debateable! sharingan needs DIRECT EYE TO EYE CONTACT! Period!

Lmfao @ life facts. The Hyuga are real life now!

Exactly bro, his analogy makes zero sense! the sharingan genjutsu works by placing there chakra in said opponent through eye to eye. If the Eye is blocked by anything the genjutsu will not work. Simple fact of the manga. The Byakugan's ability to see through things is the byakugan ability to see through things, it doesn't make his eye lid or wall or mountain some how not exist and disapear for Sharingan genjutsu to magically ignore solid mass and cast genjutsu.

Oh, like Killer Bee's shades? Manga fact though, right?

 

[Funky Tiger]

neji was killed by a fcking flying stick. poor dude hardly stands a chance.

 

[Beans2]

You spelled low difficulty wrong.

Blitzing isn't really a viable argument, but you're really selling Itachi short here. Hebi Sasuke, someone with superior precognition and better reaction feats at that point in time (of when it happened), was BARELY able to react to Itachi's Shunshin, to the point where it caught him off guard. No need for a Genjutsu blitz in the slightest. Itachi doesn't even need eye contact for Neji to be paralyzed in to place. He can look away all he wants. Ephemeral alone places Neji in a Genjutsu before he even realizes it, and by the time he even has a chance to realize it, he'll already be decapitated. Seeing Itachi's chakra network won't do any good for him. At best, it helps him sense the build up of MS techniques, but that's not even coming in to play here. 3T Genjutsu or Ephemeral end Neji. Clone swapping with an exploding clone at that distance is also feasible given that Sasuke, someone with superior pre cog and "reading" (as in being able to see what one is doing) with his Dojutsu, can't even realize how fast Itachi uses the clone jutsu. Swapping is done in no time and Neji takes an explosion to the face.

OT: Itachi low difficulty.

Read my reply to River. Itachi can't put Neji in a genjutsu unless Neji is lookkng at his finger. The feat in question was inside genjutsu, and Sasuke was distrcted by a crow clone. So blitz with genjutsu isn't happening

 

[Itachi 4 life]

Itachi neg diffs. He's stronger in all aspects. Take away his sharingan and he still takes it more often than not.

 

[Haizaki]

What difference does it make? They practically have

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vision. Neji would be literally seeing right through his eyelids as if nothing was even blocking his eyes. In order to counter genjutsu, Kabuto had to

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and rely on

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. In this case, Neji isn't blocking his eyesight at all, regardless if it's an ability granted by the Byakugan. It's still his eyesight, is it not? If it's the Byakugans ability of insight that stops all visual genjutsu from working, then what's the point of even closing their eyes in the first place then? Are you implying to me that in order for the Byakugans ability to activate, one must first close their eyes? Regardless if their eye's are open or closed, the Byakugan is still functioning the same way.

Putting a medium in between them (For example the Headband) would completely block a Genjutsu.

The Byakugan grants Neji 360 vision and Neji is capable of seeing behind himself even when he doesn't look back

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Are you going to say because he can see from his back, Itachi can hit Neji with a Genjutsu from behind because he can see from there? Because it's his blessed ability? Of course not.

Same with blocked eyes...That's what I'm saying. If something is blocking their eyes, the function would still take place but that function is not his ordinary eyesight but his Byakugan's power. B had shades on, but his eyes might have still be visible to Itachi which won't prevent it. This is a different case completely.

You spelled low difficulty wrong.

Blitzing isn't really a viable argument, but you're really selling Itachi short here. Hebi Sasuke, someone with superior precognition and better reaction feats at that point in time (of when it happened), was BARELY able to react to Itachi's Shunshin, to the point where it caught him off guard. No need for a Genjutsu blitz in the slightest. Itachi doesn't even need eye contact for Neji to be paralyzed in to place. He can look away all he wants. Ephemeral alone places Neji in a Genjutsu before he even realizes it, and by the time he even has a chance to realize it, he'll already be decapitated. Seeing Itachi's chakra network won't do any good for him. At best, it helps him sense the build up of MS techniques, but that's not even coming in to play here. 3T Genjutsu or Ephemeral end Neji. Clone swapping with an exploding clone at that distance is also feasible given that Sasuke, someone with superior pre cog and "reading" (as in being able to see what one is doing) with his Dojutsu, can't even realize how fast Itachi uses the clone jutsu. Swapping is done in no time and Neji takes an explosion to the face.

OT: Itachi low difficulty.

Every single thing that had to do with Taijutusu was in a Genjutsu, Clone swapping you're talking about was in a Genjutsu. Sasuke prevented his hand seals and even kept up with it...Read the points in the thread about Genjutsu. The only thing I see them engaging in this matchup is a CQC and they both aren't far off in terms of speed and Taijutsu based on the DB info. Both have 4.5 in Taijutsu and Neji has a 4.5 in speed...I don't see a blitz happening at all.

Exploding clone isn't a factor unless Itachi is willing to half his chakra into an exploding clone that may be evaded or shielded. If he doesn't put half his chakra into it then Neji would easily detect the real and the fake since like he said "Naruto split his chakra evenly among his clones" to fool his eyes.