Hiruzen > Hashirama Proof!
- Thread starter randomuno
- Start date
Even though I do agree that Hiruzen CAN win against Hashirama, most of your logic is flawed. Especially the part where Madara < Hashirama currently, seeing as how that is definitely not the case. Fool. Perfection isn't in the form of power, it's in the form of control. Part 1 Powerscaling versus Part 2 Powerscaling is the issue currently.
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1. Who is Iruka in the ninja world? Like is he strong, did h contribute anything? *Do not answer that*
2. 1) Orochimaru was being an arrogant ***hole which was why he lost the use of his arms. 2) Orochimaru's edo justu IS incomplete. 3) The battle with the dead hokages was WACK has hell. Kishi should have done a better job.
3. Databook....really, really?
4. And? Tsuikage/Muu survived the encounter with Madara. Meaning Madara let him live. Same thing could have happened with 1st and Kakuzu.
5. And? Tobirama was killed by "random ninja"
And I don't understand the use of spoilers. Jman can rape both tenzo/yamato with his eyes closed.
yuan of cruxis
Active member
Since you're there you mind as well check out this:
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I mean everyone can use youtube. The anime does a better job of showing stuff in aciton. The manga just explains it better.
it was full power...it was just a different power scaling...please get ur facts straight.
but i agree, im sick of these threads too, but no need to be so harsh, hes got like 50 posts here, he didnt know lol
It wasn't full powered...If you compare Kabuto' and Oro's edo justu. Kabuto's is obviously superior to Oro. If they were full powered then....god bless naruto threads.
Kabuto:
1. He gave them enough free will to get the job done (Too much free will because Itachi temporarly was free of it and Madara broke out of it).
2. He allowed them to use their justus on how they seen fit.
If you rewatch or re-read the begining of the Oro-3rd fight. Oro took the free will from the hokages. That was what the seals with the kunais was.
I believe people like you and Owarij made much better arguments.
The OP is wrong when he compares Edo Madara with Hashirama and Hiruzen.
Secondly did you just say that Jiraiya can solo 10 ninjas on the same level as Yamato, who is one of the most powerful jounin in the series and who is close to low kage level? I guess you were exaggerating but good point I guess.
1. well who is iruka.
2. tobirama, hashirama werent foul power/ bad controlled
3. dont know what databook is
4. kakuzu had luck
5. we need a manga scan where this was stated
BUT THE REST is right
MADARA PROBABLY ONLY KNEW HIRUZEN AS A CHILD.
^ this said everything
I agree. I battled Owarij before on a Jman vs Pain thread for like 3 -6 pages..lol.
Yamato's fighting ability isn't that great. Matter of fact it's kinda average or below. His only low kage level because of the blood he got from the 1st which allows he to contain a biju beast.
Well, believe me, this is a pretty good argument in comparison to the other ones people have put forward. Which made it all the more ironic that he was flammed. If certain other people catch wind of this thread, they'll begin to spread false information, and they'll do so with arrogance.
The Hidden Shinobi
Active member
1) I am sorry but I take madara's word over who is strong over iruka's any day but that's just me :sy:
2) Hashirama and tobirama did not fight to their full capabilities because orochimaru was in control of them and he did not know what they were fully capable of. There was no way on earth he was going to win this battle he realised that about half way his only and I repeat his only way to take them all out and protect the village was to use RDS. How do I know this was his only way? because that jutsu requires your life as a sacrifice.
If he could seal the 1st and 2nd hokage and defeat oro he would of but the truth is he couldn't he was to old and even if he was in his prime 3 on 1? well maybe he would of found a way to seal the 1st and the 2nd because they wasn't fighting to their full capabilites but even if he did I doubt he could defeat oro as well (this is in his prime I am talking about) of course old hiruzen put up a fight he wasn't given the title of hokage for no bloody reason!
3)Where in the data book does it say "hiruzen is stronger then hashirama" provide evidence (and you want be able to)
4) Kakuzu was weak hashirama showed him mercy because he has a heart madara would of finished him then and there
5) That was a lie and I am quite angry to see you state that.
Your point about madara is actually correct he lived after the battle with hashi but he wouldn't know the strength of people born around nagato's birth and after. So everyone that was born after nagato he wouldn't know. We also don't know when he died exactly so me saying nagato is just speculation but a decent guess as he said nagato's name.
Your second point is good about restraining the kyuubi I agree:
Final word don't underestimate the power of the older son and younger son descendant chosen ones these people are: Hashirama, madara, naruto and sasuke. I think they are the strongest people from madara's time to right now well not sasuke yet but he is also a chosen one he will get to that level. After witnessing madara on the battlefield toying with the kages and praising hashirama I don't think you should take hashirama lightly as well. Just my opinion based on how OP madara is.
You comparing hiruzen to hashi in my eyes it seems like you are comparing naruto (future hashi probably surpass him) and konohamaru (future hiruzen might surpass)
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TheSages456
Active member
hiruzen doesnt even know the full extent of hashiramas power. nobody knows. thats why hashiramas power was a myth. the very few that did know tried to tell others and were dismissed because nobody thought such a powerful shinobi could exist.
Eternal Solitude
Active member
The Hidden Shinobi
Active member
This is also true hiruzen looked about 7-8 in his flash back with hashirama and tobirama and hashi died shortly after. Even hiruzen and the elders won't know the full extent this is what I am talking about when I say the people who called hiruzen the strongest don't even know the 1st and barely the second they just heard stories of the guy who founded their village. How can they judge who is the strongest when they haven't even seen a single thing the first can do.
Those anbu that watched hiruzen's death know about 40% of what he can do.
From what we seen great strength, good taijutsu skills, landscape changing abilities even though they was in a closed area. Judging from yamato decent water and earth techs. What ever yamato can do hashi can do much much better use him to learn some small things of what hashi can do (hashi's would be on a whole other scale but we can use him as a tiny guideline.
Ask you self this if he was stronger why fake his death? why not win the battle you still get his dna and the village will be unstable. Faking his death means he realised he was going to lose but found a way to make it seem like hashi had killed him and then escape.
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Why should I take Madara's opinion seriously, when he never knew Hiruzen in his prime?
If I resurrect Alfred Nobel [and if he were as arrogant as Madara], he will naturally talk about the glories of Dynamite; unless he is educated about the nuclear bomb and thermonuclear bomb.
Why should I trust Madara's outdated info over the info passed by someone who was appointed by Konoha village; as a teacher of Ninja history? Democritus is greater in stature a professor in a university. But Democritus resurrected would be under the impression that atoms are indivisible; when we know about sub-atomic particles today. Does that mean that my teacher who is like "random fodder" is wrong; and Democritus, who is like Madara of chemistry, right?
Also answer these questions:
How is Edo-Shodaime; with infinite chakra weaker than Shodaime in life?
Where does it say that Orochimaru's Edo was weaker?
Why should I trust Madara's opinion over the official databook which SAYS that Hiruzen is the strongest; and Iruka through manga also said that. Refer to First Databook, pages 117 and 265
Please read my first post again and then reply. I've made several edits to it to defend against several arguments that have been put here.
If I resurrect Alfred Nobel [and if he were as arrogant as Madara], he will naturally talk about the glories of Dynamite; unless he is educated about the nuclear bomb and thermonuclear bomb.
Why should I trust Madara's outdated info over the info passed by someone who was appointed by Konoha village; as a teacher of Ninja history? Democritus is greater in stature a professor in a university. But Democritus resurrected would be under the impression that atoms are indivisible; when we know about sub-atomic particles today. Does that mean that my teacher who is like "random fodder" is wrong; and Democritus, who is like Madara of chemistry, right?
Also answer these questions:
How is Edo-Shodaime; with infinite chakra weaker than Shodaime in life?
Where does it say that Orochimaru's Edo was weaker?
Why should I trust Madara's opinion over the official databook which SAYS that Hiruzen is the strongest; and Iruka through manga also said that. Refer to First Databook, pages 117 and 265
Please read my first post again and then reply. I've made several edits to it to defend against several arguments that have been put here.
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