Naruto sage mode vs sasuke and itachi

[Maunten]

What's the general opinion if Naruto has Fukasaku and Shima fused with him as opposed to having two clones?

The two clones in this thread are to recharge his chakra. Naruto has the ability to enter sage mode in moments, whereas before it took longer periods of time.

 

[Joki]

LOL Omg my day has been made sir, thank you

Any time, good sir. To spread the word of our lord and savior Jiraiya-sama is my life's dedication. May the Badassery be with you.

He get's beaten by many in sage mode as well.

Not only people are even ignoring that I have given naruto two chakra recharges in the form of sage mode, tbh the thread I made was kinda unfair.

It didn't even give sasuke and itachi recharges, I mean how unfair is that?

Yeah, although it's not like he'd need them, they serve pretty much 0 purpose with the huge chakra count Naruto has anyway lol.

What's the general opinion if Naruto has Fukasaku and Shima fused with him as opposed to having two clones?

What would that really change though? The only thing is they would be fused onto him, so I don't know how it would really benefit anyone since Naruto doesn't need them for SM anyway.

Naruto can still easily summon them though and regardless of fuse status they both get Frog Songd.

Since I was under the impression this isn't "Pain fight Naruto" who actually needs the clones to charge his chakra, they're kind of pointless but judging by the OP it just makes Naruto even more hax since he doesn't need them lol.

 

[Munboy]

The two clones in this thread are to recharge his chakra. Naruto has the ability to enter sage mode in moments, whereas before it took longer periods of time.

With the toads, it'd be like Jiraiya. He'd not worry about that. Though there are instances since the Pain arc where Naruto entered Sage Mode in moments, when he had the adequate chakra levels.

What would that really change though? The only thing is they would be fused onto him, so I don't know how it would really benefit anyone since Naruto doesn't need them for SM anyway.

No cap on his clones, potential FRS spam, the amount of chakra he can pump into his Shunshin... that sort of thing without the limits of SM without the two Sages.

There's also the Genjutsu they have.

Since I was under the impression this isn't "Pain fight Naruto" who actually needs the clones to charge his chakra, they're kind of pointless but judging by the OP it just makes Naruto even more hax since he doesn't need them lol.

I don't recall the OP saying it was that particular Naruto, just that he has clones out there.

 

[Maunten]

Any time, good sir. To spread the word of our lord and savior Jiraiya-sama is my life's dedication. May the Badassery be with you.

Yeah, although it's not like he'd need them, they serve pretty much 0 purpose with the huge chakra count Naruto has anyway lol.

What would that really change though? The only thing is they would be fused onto him, so I don't know how it would really benefit anyone since Naruto doesn't need them for SM anyway.

Naruto can still easily summon them though and regardless of fuse status they both get Frog Songd.

Since I was under the impression this isn't "Pain fight Naruto" who actually needs the clones to charge his chakra, they're kind of pointless but judging by the OP it just makes Naruto even more hax since he doesn't need them lol.

Some people were comparing kabuto's serp variant of sage mode to naruto's toad sage mode, possibly not noting the fact that sage mode works on base ability (enhancing it) and that naruto base > kabuto, and that serp sage mode is different to toad sage mode, I'll post the advantages of toad and serp to outline it.

Adantages (amphibian sage mode)

• 
  There are numerous advantages while using toad Sage Mode. These include:
  
  
• The user's physical strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, and durability dramatically increase.
  
  
• The user's ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu become more powerful.
  
• The user can harness the natural energy surrounding them, turning it into an extension of their body, which increases the reach of their attacks.
  
• The user gains the ability to sense chakra around them.

Put into consideration naruto's base power.

Advantages (sage mode reptile)

• 
  There are numerous advantages granted while using snake Sage Mode. These include:
  
• The user's perception abilities, reflexes and speed dramatically increase.
  
• The user's ninjutsu becomes more powerful.
  
• The user gains further access to snake anatomy, such as their brille, which can be used to lock out light as well as stop visual-based genjutsu from affecting them.
  
• They are also able to perform abilities that are characteristic of snakes, such as dislocating their jaw, although this is not exclusive to this mode.

The disadvantages of sage mode toad style have been greatly reduced by nauto's ability to enter sage mode in moments.

 

[Joki]

With the toads, it'd be like Jiraiya. He'd not worry about that. Though there are instances since the Pain arc where Naruto entered Sage Mode in moments, when he had the adequate chakra levels.

No cap on his clones, potential FRS spam, the amount of chakra he can pump into his Shunshin... that sort of thing without the limits of SM without the two Sages.

There's also the Genjutsu they have.

I don't recall the OP saying it was that particular Naruto, just that he has clones out there.

Yeah, but they can still prep the genjutsu without being fused and Naruto already mastered SM so he doesn't have to worry about his prep. And he has Kurama's chakra which is basically infinite so he can spam all day long with no problem while team 2 hardly really has an answer to.

Some people were comparing kabuto's serp variant of sage mode to naruto's toad sage mode, possibly not noting the fact that sage mode works on base ability (enhancing it) and that naruto base > kabuto, and that serp sage mode is different to toad sage mode, I'll post the advantages of toad and serp to outline it.

Adantages (amphibian sage mode)

• 
  There are numerous advantages while using toad Sage Mode. These include:
  
  
• The user's physical strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, and durability dramatically increase.
  
  
• The user's ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu become more powerful.
  
• The user can harness the natural energy surrounding them, turning it into an extension of their body, which increases the reach of their attacks.
  
• The user gains the ability to sense chakra around them.

Advantages (sage mode reptile)

• 
  There are numerous advantages granted while using snake Sage Mode. These include:
  
• The user's perception abilities, reflexes and speed dramatically increase.
  
• The user's ninjutsu becomes more powerful.
  
• The user gains further access to snake anatomy, such as their brille, which can be used to lock out light as well as stop visual-based genjutsu from affecting them.
  
• They are also able to perform abilities that are characteristic of snakes, such as dislocating their jaw, although this is not exclusive to this mode.

I'm pretty surprised people even think that "because Itachi and Sasuke>Kabuto, then they also>Naruto". Firstly that's horrible logic and second because Kabuto didn't even lose to them in the first place so... yeah.

 

[Munboy]

I've not seen anything too distinctive from the two Sage Modes aside from appearance. Kabuto's snake anatomy seems to be due to his own mutation upon taking Orochimaru's DNA.

I'm pretty sure that if there were vital differences between the two Sage Modes (other than appearance*) then it would have been noted.


*The change in appearance is probably similar to how different Mangekyou Sharingan have different designs - but don't necessarily provide different jutsu. That is if you go by the databook and manga links and assume other jutsu like Kamui, Kotoamatsukami and Kagutsuchi are custom made jutsu by the user.

Yeah, but they can still prep the genjutsu without being fused and Naruto already mastered SM so he doesn't have to worry about his prep. And he has Kurama's chakra which is basically infinite so he can spam all day long with no problem while team 2 hardly really has an answer to.

Is Naruto allowed to use Kurama's chakra ITT?

 

[Joki]

I've not seen anything too distinctive from the two Sage Modes aside from appearance. Kabuto's snake anatomy seems to be due to his own mutation upon taking Orochimaru's DNA.

I'm pretty sure that if there were vital differences between the two Sage Modes (other than appearance*) then it would have been noted.


*The change in appearance is probably similar to how different Mangekyou Sharingan have different designs - but don't necessarily provide different jutsu. That is if you go by the databook and manga links and assume other jutsu like Kamui, Kotoamatsukami and Kagutsuchi are custom made jutsu by the user.



Is Naruto allowed to use Kurama's chakra ITT?

Yep, last I checked it was Current Naruto, and he's just not allowed to use RM or Bijuu Mode and can only use SM.

 

[Munboy]

Yep, last I checked it was Current Naruto, and he's just not allowed to use RM or Bijuu Mode and can only use SM.

If you mean the small loans Kurama can grant - like he did with Madara and when Naruto first summoned Gamabunta - then I agree. Though it still makes it base Naruto, and nothing super significant.

Naruto's main power would be through Sage Mode and summons, still.

 

[iMicLykTyson]

lol this is still going on, Apparently some people think 2 Uchiha bros can;t handle naruto sm, or even sm clones for that matter :rofl:

 

[Joki]

If you mean the small loans Kurama can grant - like he did with Madara and when Naruto first summoned Gamabunta - then I agree. Though it still makes it base Naruto, and nothing super significant.

Naruto's main power would be through Sage Mode and summons, still.

Yeah, but that was when Kurama was against helping Naruto and only gave hi chakra because he hated Madara more. They cooperate 100% now so Naruto has access to all of Kurama's chakra, it'd help in SM too.

lol this is still going on, Apparently some people think 2 Uchiha bros can;t handle naruto sm, or even sm clones for that matter :rofl:

Yep, pretty much.

 

[Maunten]

I've not seen anything too distinctive from the two Sage Modes aside from appearance. Kabuto's snake anatomy seems to be due to his own mutation upon taking Orochimaru's DNA.

I'm pretty sure that if there were vital differences between the two Sage Modes (other than appearance*) then it would have been noted.


*The change in appearance is probably similar to how different Mangekyou Sharingan have different designs - but don't necessarily provide different jutsu. That is if you go by the databook and manga links and assume other jutsu like Kamui, Kotoamatsukami and Kagutsuchi are custom made jutsu by the user.



Is Naruto allowed to use Kurama's chakra ITT?

It is clear though that the power of naruto's sage mode is different than kabuto's that kabuto does not have naruto's ability to envelope himself in sage chakra, extend his attack range through non physical means and to sense others in the way that naruto can.

lol this is still going on, Apparently some people think 2 Uchiha bros can;t handle naruto sm, or even sm clones for that matter :rofl:

Actually a lot of people do even on another forum, maybe the fanboy population is smaller.

 

[iMicLykTyson]

Yeah, but that was when Kurama was against helping Naruto and only gave hi chakra because he hated Madara more. They cooperate 100% now so Naruto has access to all of Kurama's chakra, it'd help in SM too.

Yep, pretty much.

well you are entitled to your opinion. Same with Maunten

 

[Wolfang714]

SM Naruto by himself? NO! Ultimately, Naruto=Sasuke, adding Itachi it becomes Naruto<Sasuke + Itachi. Itachi is too smart for Naruto to handle U_U
The fight starts out long range, so taking on a double Amaterasu, potential Blaze Release and Itachi's sick shuriken skills is a huge challenge. I'm giving it to the Uchiha bros

 

[Maunten]

SM Naruto by himself? NO! Ultimately, Naruto=Sasuke, adding Itachi it becomes Naruto<Sasuke + Itachi. Itachi is too smart for Naruto to handle U_U
The fight starts out long range, so taking on a double Amaterasu, potential Blaze Release and Itachi's sick shuriken skills is a huge challenge. I'm giving it to the Uchiha bros

Naruto can go into the ground for that double amaterasu or use shadow clones to block it.

At the moment naruto > sasuke, this might change though as the story progresses, I agree itachi is much smarter than naruto but I compensated for this by itachi being non edo (i.e in his sick state), meaning his stamina is quite low.

Naruto's sage arts are quite overpowering though I believe he would overwhelm them even before push came to shove, I'm going to edit the OP and give intent to kill so that people do not accidentally factor in naruto's tendency to goof off, he should be aiming to kill from beginning to end.

 

[Munboy]

Yeah, but that was when Kurama was against helping Naruto and only gave hi chakra because he hated Madara more. They cooperate 100% now so Naruto has access to all of Kurama's chakra, it'd help in SM too.

I don't see how it'll help. Naruto doesn't seem to access the Kurama forms he had prior this training anymore. The most I see is him having more base mode chakra, although will be beneficial, I don't see changing anything dramatically.

It is clear though that the power of naruto's sage mode is different than kabuto's that kabuto does not have naruto's ability to envelope himself in sage chakra, extend his attack range through non physical means and to sense others in the way that naruto can.

How do we know that? Both of them control natural energy, and can create Sage chakra. They have mutual benefits to their Sage Mode, they have natural energy enhancing their perceptual ability- Naruto articulated it as being able to sense danger a lot better, as he did against the Raikage.

They both have the vitals of Sage Mode.

Kabuto never had attacks whose range could be extended, his chakra scalpels always seemed to be a short ranged thing like Naruto's normal Rasengan.
To be fair, Kabuto's jutsu pool without Orochimaru's genes was very limited. There were no attacks he whose attack he could extend the range of. Same deal when he got Orochimaru's power.
Similar case with Naruto - Rasenshuriken was the only thing he could extend.

Kabuto can probably use natural energy a lot better than Naruto because while Naruto had a week to train with Sage Mode - maybe about a day or so with the Frog Fu... Kabuto was training for a while. A good while before he decided to take action.

But I digress: my overall point is, aside from their appearance, the benefits Naruto and Kabuto get from Sage Mode aren't different at all. One main point being that if there were vital distinctions between the two Sage Modes, it would have been mentioned.

 

[Maunten]

I don't see how it'll help. Naruto doesn't seem to access the Kurama forms he had prior this training anymore. The most I see is him having more base mode chakra, although will be beneficial, I don't see changing anything dramatically.



How do we know that? Both of them control natural energy, and can create Sage chakra. They have mutual benefits to their Sage Mode, they have natural energy enhancing their perceptual ability- Naruto articulated it as being able to sense danger a lot better, as he did against the Raikage.

They both have the vitals of Sage Mode.

Kabuto never had attacks whose range could be extended, his chakra scalpels always seemed to be a short ranged thing like Naruto's normal Rasengan.
To be fair, Kabuto's jutsu pool without Orochimaru's genes was very limited. There were no attacks he whose attack he could extend the range of. Same deal when he got Orochimaru's power.
Similar case with Naruto - Rasenshuriken was the only thing he could extend.

Kabuto can probably use natural energy a lot better than Naruto because while Naruto had a week to train with Sage Mode - maybe about a day or so with the Frog Fu... Kabuto was training for a while. A good while before he decided to take action.

But I digress: my overall point is, aside from their appearance, the benefits Naruto and Kabuto get from Sage Mode aren't different at all. One main point being that if there were vital distinctions between the two Sage Modes, it would have been mentioned.

right ok, but kabuto should have been able to sense sasuke, he didn't meaning that he did not have the sensing ability that naruto had.

 

[Munboy]

right ok, but kabuto should have been able to sense sasuke, he didn't meaning that he did not have the sensing ability that naruto had.

Which instance are we talking about?

Sensing isn't an passive tracking, unlike Jiraiya's barrier or Naruto's negative emotion sensing, Naruto/Kabuto wouldn't find targets they weren't already tracking.

That's why Sage Naruto had to use his ability to track Tobi's stakes rather than automatically detect them; same reason why Kabuto didn't automatically detect the real Itachi when he stabbed the clone, he only found him when he was looking for him..

 

[Maunten]

Which instance are we talking about?

Sensing isn't an passive tracking, unlike Jiraiya's barrier or Naruto's negative emotion sensing, Naruto/Kabuto wouldn't find targets they weren't already tracking.

That's why Sage Naruto had to use his ability to track Tobi's stakes rather than automatically detect them; same reason why Kabuto didn't automatically detect the real Itachi when he stabbed the clone, he only found him when he was looking for him..

Yeah but didn't naruto try and sense kakashi, when he could not tsunade revealed to him that it was because kakashi had died, if kabuto really wanted to find sasuke he could have done the same, it's not as if he hadn't spend prolonged periods of time with sasuke.

 

[Munboy]

Yeah but didn't naruto try and sense kakashi, when he could not tsunade revealed to him that it was because kakashi had died, if kabuto really wanted to find sasuke he could have done the same, it's not as if he hadn't spend prolonged periods of time with sasuke.

Naruto said since acquiring natural energy he could feel people's energy. Admittedly, it is hard to ascertain whether or not Naruto automatically was detecting. However going by the Pain example and Naruto's character, it is reasonable to suggest that he probably checked on the people he cared about when he saw Konoha into rubble.
He didn't detect Kakashi, and he asked questions.

Its in the air, that one. However combined with other instances, I'd vouch for it being Naruto tracked Kakashi.

I'm a little confused as to which particular scenario with Sasuke you're referring to? He managed to detect Sasuke's Susanoo and sword perfectly - before he used the Suiton on Sasuke.

 

[Gingka Uzumaki]

I go for Naruto pretty much in every fight, but are you kidding me?