Pain's Secret

[SAKumono26]

guys, i wanna 'enlighten' :d u on something that might give some understanding abt pain. U know kishi uses a lot of japanese and chinese mythology in his writing.

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"six paths" (rokudou 六道) of existence are also called the "six realms" (rokushu 六趣) of reincarnation . According to buddhist thought, all living beings are caught in an endless cycle of birth, death, and rebirth into one of the "six realms" being reborn up or down the scale according to the extent or lack of one's purity and good deeds in the previous existence. one can escape only by achieving enlightenment.

described in numerous texts, the "six realms" are:

1. Hells (sk: Naraka, jp: Jigoku 地獄)
2. Hungry ghosts (sk: Preta, jp: Gaki 餓鬼)
3. Animals (sk: Tiryasyoni, jp: Chikushou 畜生)
4. Bellicose demons (sk: Asura, jp: Ashura 阿修羅)
5. Humans (sk: Manusya, jp: Jin 人)
6. Heavenly beings (sk: Deva, jp: Ten 天)


1) ok. Its very relevant, pains bodies are being reincarnated everytime one dies.
2) one body seems hungry, eating all the chakra
3) one is constantly summoning animals.
4) one is blind, more like human who are blinded by greed, hatred blah blah
5) rest donno, how to relate.

So looks like to break this endless cycle of birth,death,rebirth into one of those realms (to make this realm thing more clear- someone can reborn in animal realm which is worse than human realm, bcos of his bad deed) , one has to be enlightened, and then his spirit will be free for good. I am confused

omg now i really understand
thank u 6thj hokage:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d
BIG REPS

 

[Ero sennin]

pein/ negatos real body may be in some sort of stasis controling the bodys through thought and useing the rinagan as bodies as his eyes and ears and voice. it a evolved version a puppet technque. peins weakness may be his real body if its destroyed the others fall unless at the last minuite he can transfer to another. would be kinda cheap though if it was like that.

 

[~Nemesis~]

Jiraiya got his ass whooped by pein with years and years of sage arts experience, the toads arent going to allow naruto to battle pein after a few days, the fight with him and pein is much further away.

do eva think wen pein enters konoha he might kill woeva he sees

or whoeva tries to stop him cuz naruto won't be a chance against pein nor will neji or mighty gai

don't get me wrong pein is probably lik that did u c wat he did to his sensei


thats cold man

 

[6th hokage]

Now abt the Code

guys donno u agree or not, but here is what i think abt the code jiraiya left behind -

1) suppose u wrote a book. u can remember the story, the characters, the chapters, and at best the exact order and number and name of the chapters. BUT CAN U REMEMBER WHICH WORD BELONGS TO WHICH PAGE UNLESS U HAVE THE BOOK AT UR HAND WHEN U WRiTE A CODE? i mean to do that without the book j-man had to remember every first word of every page and the mapping of each word with each page no. its impossible. nobody cares abt the page no, but the content only.

2) now its really silly when u decipher the code and it comes out : "THE REAL ONE IS NOT WITH THEM". why silly, bcos its obvious the real one isnt one of them, j-man stated numerously to ma/pa frog that none of them really resembles nagato meaning the real might not be fighting directly. so pa frog already knows that. thats why when pa frog was asked what does he think abt the deciphered msg, he didnt understand anything. this msg didnt give him anything new.

3) at the end j-man stated "Now I know ur identity Pain". now, does "THE REAL ONE IS NOT WITH THEM" give anything about the identity? did he come back to life just to give this msg? i really doubt.

4) so what abt the msg "THE REAL ONE ISNT WITH THEM"? i think kishi trying to divert us from the real meaning. bcos we already know this even without the code.

What i think is, the msg is definitely abt a book and for naruto (hint: katakana char). but its abt the very book pa frog gave to naruto. why i think that? bcos, the book is almost(since char name not jirayia but naruto) the autobiography of jman, its abt the shinobi he fought when he travelled around the world, and THE BODIES HE FOUGHT DURING THE FIGHT AGAINST PAIN, WERE ALL SHINOBIS HE FOUGHT AGAINST IN THE PAST. now can u connect?

so what abt those numbers j-man printed on pa frog's back? i donno yet, but to me definitely not the first word of those pages. i have a feeling, naruto might come up with something abt the code after reading this book.

PS. the story might not turn out this way offcourse. but this is just an educated guess

 

[SAKumono26]

guys donno u agree or not, but here is what i think abt the code jiraiya left behind -

1) suppose u wrote a book. u can remember the story, the characters, the chapters, and at best the exact order and number and name of the chapters. BUT CAN U REMEMBER WHICH WORD BELONGS TO WHICH PAGE UNLESS U HAVE THE BOOK AT UR HAND WHEN U WROTE THE CODE? i mean to do that without the book j-man had to remember every first word of every page and the mapping of each word with each page no. its impossible.

2) now its really silly when u decipher the code and it comes out : "THE REAL ONE IS NOT WITH THEM". why silly, bcos its obvious the real one isnt one of them, j-man stated numerously to ma/pa frog that none of them really resembles nagato meaning the real might not be fighting directly. so pa frog already knows that. thats why when pa frog was asked what does he think abt the deciphered msg, he didnt understand anything. this msg didnt give him anything new.

3) at the end j-man stated "Now I know ur identity Pain". now, does "THE REAL ONE IS NOT WITH THEM" give anything about the identity? did he come back to life just to give this msg? i really doubt.

4) so what abt the msg "THE REAL ONE ISNT WITH THEM"? i think kishi trying to divert us from the real meaning. bcos we already know this even without the code.

What i think is, the msg is definitely abt a book and for naruto (hint: katakana char). but its abt the very book pa frog gave to naruto. why i think that? bcos, the book is almost(since char name not jirayia but naruto) the autobiography of jman, its abt the shinobi he fought when he travelled around the world, and THE BODIES HE FOUGHT DURING THE FIGHT AGAINST PAIN, WERE ALL SHINOBIS HE FOUGHT AGAINST IN THE PAST. now can u connect?

so what abt those numbers j-man printed on pa frog's back? i donno yet, but to me definitely not the first word of those pages. i have a feeling, naruto might come up with something abt the code after reading this book.

PS. the story might not turn out this way offcourse. but this is just an educated guess

Spoiler

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ihave 2 theories but i will just wiat

 

[~Nemesis~]

fine wid us

 

[twistedlink]

do eva think wen pein enters konoha he might kill woeva he sees

or whoeva tries to stop him cuz naruto won't be a chance against pein nor will neji or mighty gai

don't get me wrong pein is probably lik that did u c wat he did to his sensei


thats cold man

Pein said kill anyone who gets in the way, in theory if konoha just sit back and let them search for naruto and simply say "hes left, dunno where" then he wont attack-if he keeps to his words.

But as soon as a ninja sees the akatsuki uniform, theyre gonna attack, so personally there will be heavy losses.

Neji is weaker than naruto? lol, the only reason neji lost to naruto was the fox, not naruto, he has 359 degree vision, naruto would never be able to hit him with a rasengan or a...wait thats his ONLY ninjutsu.

As for mighty gai, thats an insult to him, mighty gai would whopp narutos ass easily.

Naruto might be going through sage training but he still needs to be faster and smarter, too many times with fights involving naruto he misses 99% of the time, gets his ass kicked, makes some corny speech and punches them in the face and they die, quite frankly its annoying and i dont like the character naruto much for them reasons, hes too stupid, i read the mangas more for overall storyline and battles such as sasuke vs itachi, Jiraiya vs pein.

The suckiest non filler fights always involve naruto, or are ruined by naruto.

Sakura was so cool fighting kakashi in the start of shipuuden and naruto just made it seem like a joke.

Pein has super vision, he has 6 bodies to see the opponents moves, and even jiraiya had to rely on the frogs genjutsu to be able to get them alone, he couldnt do it by himself, so if pein vs naruto ends up with him making a speech and punching him down im going to personally write to kishi to stop this repetative shit and make him smart for once.

I know kishi says he didnt want naruto to be smart, but quite frankly hes borderline mentally retarded

"Gather the energy in your feet"

"I dont get it"

How can you not get that? Doing it i understand could be difficult, but how can someone NOT understand that sentence?

And it happens elsewhere

"Feel the natural energy around you"

I doubt any of us readers went "i dont get it"

we all knew the frog meant energy from around you-natural energy

But no naruto the one surprising(ly dumb) ninja doesnt get it.


Im not asking kishi to make him a rival of shikamaru, but by the same token its so annoying having to read some kid with an IQ of 40 trying to understand stuff and winning impossible fights through "sheer determination"

It spoils the fights.

 

[NarutoWind]

Naruto would own Neji and beat Gai. Kakashi even said that naruto had surpassed him, and we all know Kakashi is stronger than Gai.

 

[6th hokage]

Pein said kill anyone who gets in the way, in theory if konoha just sit back and let them search for naruto and simply say "hes left, dunno where" then he wont attack-if he keeps to his words.

But as soon as a ninja sees the akatsuki uniform, theyre gonna attack, so personally there will be heavy losses.

Neji is weaker than naruto? lol, the only reason neji lost to naruto was the fox, not naruto, he has 359 degree vision, naruto would never be able to hit him with a rasengan or a...wait thats his ONLY ninjutsu.

As for mighty gai, thats an insult to him, mighty gai would whopp narutos ass easily.

Naruto might be going through sage training but he still needs to be faster and smarter, too many times with fights involving naruto he misses 99% of the time, gets his ass kicked, makes some corny speech and punches them in the face and they die, quite frankly its annoying and i dont like the character naruto much for them reasons, hes too stupid, i read the mangas more for overall storyline and battles such as sasuke vs itachi, Jiraiya vs pein.

The suckiest non filler fights always involve naruto, or are ruined by naruto.

Sakura was so cool fighting kakashi in the start of shipuuden and naruto just made it seem like a joke.

Pein has super vision, he has 6 bodies to see the opponents moves, and even jiraiya had to rely on the frogs genjutsu to be able to get them alone, he couldnt do it by himself, so if pein vs naruto ends up with him making a speech and punching him down im going to personally write to kishi to stop this repetative shit and make him smart for once.

I know kishi says he didnt want naruto to be smart, but quite frankly hes borderline mentally retarded

"Gather the energy in your feet"

"I dont get it"

How can you not get that? Doing it i understand could be difficult, but how can someone NOT understand that sentence?

And it happens elsewhere

"Feel the natural energy around you"

I doubt any of us readers went "i dont get it"

we all knew the frog meant energy from around you-natural energy

But no naruto the one surprising(ly dumb) ninja doesnt get it.


Im not asking kishi to make him a rival of shikamaru, but by the same token its so annoying having to read some kid with an IQ of 40 trying to understand stuff and winning impossible fights through "sheer determination"

It spoils the fights.

i wont get to who wins against who, bcos thats debatable, but i wud like to give some points.

1) the reason i think why kishi sometimes paint naruto as dumb is he is trying to establish him as #1 surprise ninja. why surprising, bcos in numerous occasions he has surprised us all (may be not all ) by his smart startegy during fighting when it matters most. for example,

fight against zabuza, he is the one who plotted a 'surprisingly' nice strategy and freed kakashi from the water prison with the help of sasuke. (earlier manga) the idea was all his.
fight against kiba, fight against neji (now that may be fox) but the last blow was a pretty smart move, fight against gaara when he multiplied numerous time very smartly just to get closer to him and planted an explosive in his ass, fight against kakuzu (although u might say initially he was caught, but against such powerful opponents u might get wrong footed first time, asuma is an example against hidan). so i wud argue its not just punch and speech that gives him victory in his fighting, its his smartness in the battlefield.

2) now anyone might not like him, its a matter of personal choice, but everybdy has to agree he learns techinque faster than anyone. somebdy might say, hei thats kage bunshin. but still that kage bunshin has to think and do things, if he was that dumb then 1000000 kage bunshin wont be enough for him to learn a technique.

example, he learned rasengan in an unbelievably short amount of time, without kage bunshin. he fused his elemental chakra with his rasengan without kage bunshin, which even the 4th cudnt do it (bcos he died prematurely offcourse). now u say hei, there were 3 kage, but those are not for faster learning those are his helping hands.

3) u say, "feel the natural energy around u" - that naruto didnt understand. but as far as i recall it was some heavy words like atmosphere, that he didnt understand, not the concept of it. again, u dont understand unless u really feel it, in that case he was even faster than jiraya to understand this line.

4) now a hypothetical (and arguable) point. yah we know he has only rasengan and kage bunshin and now rasensuriken. thats boring. but wait a few more chapters, u might get 'surprised'. i dont believe he spent 3 yrs with jman just to swat flies.

 

[SAKumono26]

it was sum gud fights but neji is nt themsin character he is string but the second stringes if the konha 11

it goes naruto
neji
shkia
and so on

 

[QwertyHero]

Lol, for one, yes, Naruto doesn't have the Ninja smarts to beat someone as technical as Neji right now, or even Gai for that matter.
And frankly, Naruto isn't much of a match for most people these days, but just give him some time to mature, like I said in the last topic I made, I can guarantee that Naruto will end up being one of the strongest ninja in the Naruto universe by the end of the series.
And yes, Kakashi said Naruto surpassed him, but I don't think he meant it THAT literally.
I think he meant it like, technically speaking, seeing as he mastered [And heavily expanded upon] one of the most difficult jutsu's in Naruto at such a young age, and also seeing as how he has so much more stamina and chakra then him.
So on paper, yes, Naruto would seem stronger than Kakashi, but if they really got into a fight, Naruto would lose if not for the sheer fact that Kakashi has MS, but Kakashi has much more experience and smarts than Naruto.
Again, just wait, be patient, because in due time, Naruto will be stronger than anyone [Alive] in the manga.

 

[twistedlink]

Yeah kakashi meant in terms of ninjutsu level, kakashi can still dodge it easily though, he can dodge normal rasengan easily, and he can dodge rasenshuriken easily too, because the movements are the same.

Neji and gai can whoop naruto.

the reason i think why kishi sometimes paint naruto as dumb is he is trying to establish him as #1 surprise ninja. why surprising, bcos in numerous occasions he has surprised us all (may be not all ) by his smart startegy during fighting when it matters most. for example,

Honestly, that just makes him more annoying, the fact that hes stupid as hell then suddenly has shikamaru skills, its annoying.

example, he learned rasengan in an unbelievably short amount of time, without kage bunshin.

source? because everytime naruto uses rasengan he needs a clone to help him, one to spin the chakra and one to form it.

The elemental rasengan he used loads of clones, its in the anime right now, and he uses 2 clones and his real one to make the elemental rasengan

3) u say, "feel the natural energy around u" - that naruto didnt understand. but as far as i recall it was some heavy words like atmosphere, that he didnt understand, not the concept of it. again, u dont understand unless u really feel it, in that case he was even faster than jiraya to understand this line.

What??

Heavy words like atmosphere??

Maybe i had a rather decent education (though i doubt it as i attended the 4th worst school in the UK) but i knew what the word atmosphere meant, and was, at around the age of 6.

Naruto is 15-16 and doesnt know the word atmosphere??

Understanding the concept is all he needs, not the words anyway, so this is supporting me really, because he had no clue what was going on.


As to naruto vs kakashi, its already happened.

The only difference is he now has natural chakra and rasenshuriken, but kakashi can dodge it-easily.

Also if naruto has large amounts of chakra and can feel natural energy surely this chakra control can lead to super super tsunade strength???

As to naruto becoming more powerful and knowing more jutsus-I doubt it.

Hell learn a few, and thats it, throughout the entire series he has defeated enemies on paper 100 times the strength as him (Gaara, neji as good examples) and with a speech and a punch wins.

why would kishi change the tune and make him a massive ninjutsu arsenal now??

Hes going to beat all the strong enemies with hardly any new attacks.

I dunno i just dont like naruto for being able to beat akatsuki level opponents with cheap trick shots with some kage bushin and rasengan, and kakashi has a lot of trouble when weve seen kakashi be tonnes more smart and shitloads faster in battle.

It just makes all the other fights seem like filler because the realism ratio is way out of whack.


And itd also help if kishi just made a few chapters of him going to chuunin level, or jounin level, though i think his plan is for him to go from genin to hokage.

 

[SAKumono26]

he leanred rasegan right before tsunade flicked him with the finger
he iddi t with i hand again when naruto protected tsunde from kabuto

 

[6th hokage]

dude u seem to be very angry at the character naruto..LOL...anyway, we all know he is sometimes so dumb that i myself, a naruto fan, wanna kick his ass... i mentioned the word atmosphere is heavy for him, as he is too dumb. we all know this word, but its not abt us, its abt naruto. the thing is he is smart when it matters, may be u wud argue. but thats difference of opinion. before not wasting any more time on this, i wud like to mention when a ninja create or learn a technique, he learns it in his head(ie. how to do it). naruto figured it out in his head in a relatively short amnt of time, it doesnt matter if he uses 2 or 3 kage to implement it. those are just logistical support. also u mentioned a large no clones in current anime, bcos he needed to learn this quickly, as akatsuki is after his ass. not he is not capable.

anyway, difference of opinion keeps this forum alive.

Understanding the concept is all he needs, not the words anyway, so this is supporting me really, because he had no clue what was going on.

u interpreted me wrong. it takes time to feel the natural energy. u just dont feel it, when someone say, "u have to feel natural energy". its natural he had no clue. unless u start to feel it, u wont understand its meaning. in that case he was faster than jman.

 

[twistedlink]

No, she said it looked like rasengan but it wasnt.

 

[QwertyHero]

Yeah kakashi meant in terms of ninjutsu level, kakashi can still dodge it easily though, he can dodge normal rasengan easily, and he can dodge rasenshuriken easily too, because the movements are the same.

Neji and gai can whoop naruto.



Honestly, that just makes him more annoying, the fact that hes stupid as hell then suddenly has shikamaru skills, its annoying.



source? because everytime naruto uses rasengan he needs a clone to help him, one to spin the chakra and one to form it.

The elemental rasengan he used loads of clones, its in the anime right now, and he uses 2 clones and his real one to make the elemental rasengan




What??

Heavy words like atmosphere??

Maybe i had a rather decent education (though i doubt it as i attended the 4th worst school in the UK) but i knew what the word atmosphere meant, and was, at around the age of 6.

Naruto is 15-16 and doesnt know the word atmosphere??

Understanding the concept is all he needs, not the words anyway, so this is supporting me really, because he had no clue what was going on.


As to naruto vs kakashi, its already happened.

The only difference is he now has natural chakra and rasenshuriken, but kakashi can dodge it-easily.

Also if naruto has large amounts of chakra and can feel natural energy surely this chakra control can lead to super super tsunade strength???

As to naruto becoming more powerful and knowing more jutsus-I doubt it.

Hell learn a few, and thats it, throughout the entire series he has defeated enemies on paper 100 times the strength as him (Gaara, neji as good examples) and with a speech and a punch wins.

why would kishi change the tune and make him a massive ninjutsu arsenal now??

Hes going to beat all the strong enemies with hardly any new attacks.

I dunno i just dont like naruto for being able to beat akatsuki level opponents with cheap trick shots with some kage bushin and rasengan, and kakashi has a lot of trouble when weve seen kakashi be tonnes more smart and shitloads faster in battle.

It just makes all the other fights seem like filler because the realism ratio is way out of whack.


And itd also help if kishi just made a few chapters of him going to chuunin level, or jounin level, though i think his plan is for him to go from genin to hokage.

Lol, Naruto's dumb, but in the thick of things, he can definitely think on his feet.
Also, yea, Naruto learned Rasengan all by himself.
Remember, he only found out about that technique during Shippuden.
Yea, he needs clones to form it, but he LEARNED it by himself.
Well, Naruto's father is Minato, I think after he reads the book, it'll be the turning point for him, he'll start training differently and maybe being more of a Ninjutsu user, taking after not only his role model, but his father. Everyone's been having there turning points, Sasuke had one recently, before him Jiraiya, ect.
In fact, this whole arc seems to be about turning points, the end of era's and whatnot.
The next huge turning point will be Naruto, growing and becoming super strong, I think.

 

[Koo]

after reading Qwerty's post i had to look it up. Rinnegan = "Samsara Eye" and i found this definition of samsara.

"# SAMSARA (Sanskrit)
Seishi (Samsara) -- Japanese Spelling
The cycle of life and death, rebirth and redeath, of delusion and suffering, in which all sentient beings are trapped unless they can break free of the cycle. The "cycle" refers generally to the Six States of Existence, although there are also two, three, four, seven, and twelve kinds of samsara (not discussed herein). The Six States of Existence are also known as the Six Paths of Reincarnation or Transmigration. One must achieve nirvana (enlightenment, satori) to break free of the cycle of samsara. Breaking free of the cycle of reincarnation is called "emancipation."

and i agree that pein is connected to samsara

"all sentient beings are trapped unless they can break free of the cycle"

maby those 6 people can "Break Free of the Cycle" and turn on pein for making them his slaves

 

[Nidaime!]

k guys... y do u think, pain is going back to konoha cuz of his body???
i mean he has 6 bodys 4 now if u forgot.......>>>>konan<<<<....

i think he is heading to konoha to find kyuubi...

and i think its clear for everyone, that he is not able to control more than six bodies... cuz he said while fighting j-man....

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>>>the six paths of pain<<<

and i think we saw about 90% of his fighting skills while fighting j-man.... cuz he had some serious troubles with him....

konoha won't have serious problems by fighting him.... because if the main characters like kiba, ino etc. are fighting them together, they will be able to stop him...

every body see's what the other body is seeing... but there's no function if 2 enemys are attacking one body.....

konoha just have to fight in double teams.......

 

[BishamonSama]

No way will konoha be able to take on Pein. Only naruto will.

 

[Nidaime!]

i don't really think that naruto is going to take out the most of the bodys....
he will take maximal 2 of them .. including the main body