Pain's Secret

[zagubus]

i wouldn't be surprised if pein and konan don't enter kohona at all. between the 2 of them they have to very effective techniques for scouting out the village before going in. they're looking for naruto so if he's not there then they might not go in at all. if they do go in they might just grab someone to interrogate as to the where abouts of naruto.

then again, one of the reasons they're going to kohona is to fight them before they have time to prepare their defenses so maybe they'll fight just because they feel it's to their advantage. i can't wait to find out what happens!!!!

on second thought, pein has a few of reasons to attack kohona whether naruto is there or not.

1. the timing. he went to kohona on todi's recommendation so he could attack before kohona could get their defenses ready.

2. his body. he might hope to retrieve the body before kohona can get any of his secrets from it.

3. he's there, might as well show off while he's waiting for naruto. he could take some of the bodies that naruto might recognize which would really throw naruto off at first but end up just pissing him off.

 

[QwertyHero]

Just had a thought, could Pein be going to Konoha to retrieve the body that Jiraiya killed?
Could Pein know that if the autopsy is completed, it spells certain death for him?
Hmmm..

 

[twistedlink]

The reason madara sent him to konoha instantly was because they had his body, and it appears evident that once you know peins secret whooping his ass doesnt appear too difficult, so he wanted him to capture naruto before that weakness was apparent.

But yeah i can see him fighting in the hospital and taking his body back.

 

[musicgenesis]

nah..i dun think so...Naruto might stop him in time!he's the number one surprising ninja for a reason.

Plus...they shld be able to delay Pein long enough til people like Gaara come and assist

 

[Hokage]

Yh...i can't wait to see gaara back in action :naruto:

 

[zagubus]

Lady-T has that frogie-talkie thing so she could let naruto and the frogs know when pein begins his attack. i'm sure they could reverse summon naruto back to the village in an instant.

yeah that's what i meant by preparing their defenses. kohon would prepare their defense according to what they found out from pein's body. pein wants his body back because once you know a ninja's secrets it's easy to beat them. but i would think that goes for any ninja

WOOOT!!! Gaara!!!! FTW!!

 

[Emi Nagasaki]

nah..i dun think so...Naruto might stop him in time!he's the number one surprising ninja for a reason.

Plus...they shld be able to delay Pein long enough til people like Gaara come and assist

lol that would be funny if they where able to delay Pein for four days while they waited on gaara to assist. remember sand to the leaf takes four days.

 

[zagubus]

is it friday yet??? i'm getting all antsie in the pantsie....

lol that would be funny if they where able to delay Pein for four days while they waited on gaara to assist. remember sand to the leaf takes four days.

does anyone else think that if 2 villages have an alliance that they should be able to summon their friends when they need to? for instance the sand siblings could be informed of an attack and summoned to kohona to help defend and visa versa. and since the frog was able to leave that froggie-talkie with lady-T then couldn't there be frogs at both villages so they could all keep in touch and alert each other when they're under attack?

*edit* well maybe not froggie-talkies but something of the sort. the froggie-talkie would communicate with the frogs on the mountain. maybe a sand worm or something for the sand village a wormie-talkie, if you will. *edit*

gaara should TOTALLY ride around on one of those big ass sandworms like from dune!

sorry guys, i've had too much coffee this morning. ok this time i'm really leaving. i'm supposed to at least look busy at work...

 

[6th hokage]

guys, i wanna 'enlighten' u on something that might give some understanding abt pain. u know kishi uses a lot of japanese and chinese mythology in his writing.

Src:

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"six paths" (rokudou 六道) of existence are also called the "six realms" (rokushu 六趣) of reincarnation . According to Buddhist thought, all living beings are caught in an endless cycle of birth, death, and rebirth into one of the "six realms" being reborn up or down the scale according to the extent or lack of one's purity and good deeds in the previous existence. One can escape only by achieving enlightenment.

Described in numerous texts, the "six realms" are:

1. Hells (Sk: naraka, Jp: jigoku 地獄)
2. Hungry ghosts (Sk: preta, Jp: gaki 餓鬼)
3. Animals (Sk: tiryasyoni, Jp: chikushou 畜生)
4. Bellicose demons (Sk: asura, Jp: ashura 阿修羅)
5. Humans (Sk: manusya, Jp: jin 人)
6. Heavenly beings (Sk: deva, Jp: ten 天)


1) ok. its very relevant, pains bodies are being reincarnated everytime one dies.
2) one body seems hungry, eating all the chakra
3) one is constantly summoning animals.
4) one is blind, more like human who are blinded by greed, hatred blah blah
5) rest donno, how to relate.

so looks like to break this endless cycle of birth,death,rebirth into one of those realms (to make this realm thing more clear- someone can reborn in animal realm which is worse than human realm, bcos of his bad deed) , one has to be enlightened, and then his spirit will be free for good. I AM CONFUSED

 

[zagubus]

guys, i wanna 'enlighten' u on something that might give some understanding abt pain. u know kishi uses a lot of japanese and chinese mythology in his writing.

Src:

You must be registered for see links

"six paths" (rokudou 六道) of existence are also called the "six realms" (rokushu 六趣) of reincarnation . According to Buddhist thought, all living beings are caught in an endless cycle of birth, death, and rebirth into one of the "six realms" being reborn up or down the scale according to the extent or lack of one's purity and good deeds in the previous existence. One can escape only by achieving enlightenment.

Described in numerous texts, the "six realms" are:

1. Hells (Sk: naraka, Jp: jigoku 地獄)
2. Hungry ghosts (Sk: preta, Jp: gaki 餓鬼)
3. Animals (Sk: tiryasyoni, Jp: chikushou 畜生)
4. Bellicose demons (Sk: asura, Jp: ashura 阿修羅)
5. Humans (Sk: manusya, Jp: jin 人)
6. Heavenly beings (Sk: deva, Jp: ten 天)


1) ok. its very relevant, pains bodies are being reincarnated everytime one dies.
2) one body seems hungry, eating all the chakra
3) one is constantly summoning animals.
4) one is blind, more like human who are blinded by greed, hatred blah blah
5) rest donno, how to relate.

so looks like to break this endless cycle of birth,death,rebirth into one of those realms (to make this realm thing more clear- someone can reborn in animal realm which is worse than human realm, bcos of his bad deed) , one has to be enlightened, and then his spirit will be free for good. I AM CONFUSED

thanks! was very informative. i suppose "5. Humans (Sk: manusya, Jp: jin 人)" could be pein's true body which according to J-man's code isn't there or doesn't necessarily fight with the rest of his bodies. pein's body in the human realm would be his only weakness which is why he protects that secret so much. how's that sound?

 

[6th hokage]

sounds interesting to me.. but then again there were 6 bodies, but none of them looks like nagato..??

 

[zagubus]

so i just checked out the link you posted. at first i grouped "6. Heavenly beings (Sk: deva, Jp: ten 天)" with the good guys so i couldn't find a relevance to pein but after checking out the link i can totally understand how pein could fit into that category. with the excess piercings and all he could totally fit into that realm. i'm posting the full def from the link you posted just to illustrate.

"Deva (Deva-gati in Sanskrit); Tendō in Japanese. Deva or Devas; the realm of heavenly beings filled with pleasure; the deva hold godlike powers; some reign over celestial kingdoms; most live in delightful happiness and splendor; they live for countless ages, but even the Deva belong to the world of suffering (samsara) -- for their powers blind them to the world of suffering and fill them with pride -- and thus even the Deva grow old and die; some say that because their pleasure is greatest, so too is their misery."

the part in red really sounds like pein to me. he even calls himself a god

sounds interesting to me.. but then again there were 6 bodies, but none of them looks like nagato..??

i think the real pein (nagato?) is sitting in some dark room somewhere meditating and controlling the bodies. or suspended in the air by hooks through his flesh to feel the pain which he believes to bring him closer to godliness. maybe since his childhood was so screwed up that enlightenment through "delightful happiness and splendor" wasn't an option for him so he found it the other way, through "he world of suffering". am i making any sense? i might've confused myself here haha.

 

[6th hokage]

yeah pain(nagato) very much fits into 'deva'. i agree. but i am trying to fit 6 bodies into 6 categories, which at the moment i cant, bcos lack of info abt their fighting skills. then again that manga line: "THE MORE YOU KNOW ABT PAIN, THE LESS YOU UNDERSTAND!!" ....hahaha

 

[Kazamori]

:headband: Great =) It must be related to Pein

 

[zagubus]

:headband: Great =) It must be related to Pein

lol i'm sure you'd be his better half.

so i think we've got 5 of the six bodies in a realm. i have a feeling the body that represents the human realm is his weakness.

crap, never mind. he fights with six bodies. i have no point...

 

[QwertyHero]

so i just checked out the link you posted. at first i grouped "6. Heavenly beings (Sk: deva, Jp: ten 天)" with the good guys so i couldn't find a relevance to pein but after checking out the link i can totally understand how pein could fit into that category. with the excess piercings and all he could totally fit into that realm. i'm posting the full def from the link you posted just to illustrate.

"Deva (Deva-gati in Sanskrit); Tendō in Japanese. Deva or Devas; the realm of heavenly beings filled with pleasure; the deva hold godlike powers; some reign over celestial kingdoms; most live in delightful happiness and splendor; they live for countless ages, but even the Deva belong to the world of suffering (samsara) -- for their powers blind them to the world of suffering and fill them with pride -- and thus even the Deva grow old and die; some say that because their pleasure is greatest, so too is their misery."

the part in red really sounds like pein to me. he even calls himself a god



i think the real pein (nagato?) is sitting in some dark room somewhere meditating and controlling the bodies. or suspended in the air by hooks through his flesh to feel the pain which he believes to bring him closer to godliness. maybe since his childhood was so screwed up that enlightenment through "delightful happiness and splendor" wasn't an option for him so he found it the other way, through "he world of suffering". am i making any sense? i might've confused myself here haha.

One thing I would like to point out is this:
''But even the Deva belong to the world of suffering (samsara)''
Samsara is the literal meaning of Rinnegan, no?
Surely, Buddhism, Reincarnation, Deva's, and Samsara are, somehow, connected to Pein.
Lol, it really is true, the more you know about Pein, the less you understand.

 

[zagubus]

after reading Qwerty's post i had to look it up. Rinnegan = "Samsara Eye" and i found this definition of samsara.

"# SAMSARA (Sanskrit)
Seishi (Samsara) -- Japanese Spelling
The cycle of life and death, rebirth and redeath, of delusion and suffering, in which all sentient beings are trapped unless they can break free of the cycle. The "cycle" refers generally to the Six States of Existence, although there are also two, three, four, seven, and twelve kinds of samsara (not discussed herein). The Six States of Existence are also known as the Six Paths of Reincarnation or Transmigration. One must achieve nirvana (enlightenment, satori) to break free of the cycle of samsara. Breaking free of the cycle of reincarnation is called "emancipation."

and i agree that pein is connected to samsara

 

[6th hokage]

ok guys here is a recap.

There are six samsara(endless cycle of suffering,rebirth ) states. The lowest three states are called the three evil paths, or three bad states. They are (1) people in hells; (2) hungry ghosts; (3) animals. The highest three states are (4) Asura; (5) Humans; (6) Deva. All beings in these six states are doomed to death and rebirth (reincarnation) in a recurring cycle over countless ages.

i have been killing some time on this, these are my assumptions -

1) if u remeber when the fight against jiraiya started 3 guys appeared first. one the hungry guy, one animal guy, its natural to guess the rest is from hell. why, bcos together they make the bottom or lower tier. naturally they are the first to face the heat. also, the third guy looks more depressed, blind like he has suffered the most. also he only uses taijutsu - no ninjutsu at all which requires balancing physical and spiritual energy, which suggests he has little spiritual energy. all the more reason to infer he is from hell.

2) next, upper tier (asura, human, deva) arrives and someone reincarnates the 3.
now it must have been someone from upper tier runs thru his chakra to revive them. reason for my guess is - they cant revive themselves. the dead body captured by konoha is the proof, it is still without life. they need someone else to revive them.

3) yahiko body might be the deva(heavenly being). he is the one who can control rain(heaven), he is the spokeperson of the 6 as he interacts with akatsuki, so he must hold #1 spot of the top tier. since he is heavenly(rest are human and demon) i guess he is the one who revives. one clue(i am not sure of this logic) is when yahiko entered the secret chamber, everybdy else seemed to be sleeping/dead/not moving ??. after some time they were shown ready to fight.

4) the one who throws his huge fist seemed the aggresive demon/asura. humans cant have this large fist. so the rest must be human.

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from L-R : Human. Asura, Deva, Animal. Hungry, Hell​

so, i think to defeat pain, deploy few platoon, split them up, kill the yahiko body by any means so that he cant revive others when they are killed. to me this is the plan to defeat the 6 bodies. or this may be crap

now that opens up another ques. what if nagato presents 6 more new bodies? but that will take some time

 

[QwertyHero]

ok guys here is a recap.

There are six samsara(endless cycle of suffering,rebirth ) states. The lowest three states are called the three evil paths, or three bad states. They are (1) people in hells; (2) hungry ghosts; (3) animals. The highest three states are (4) Asura; (5) Humans; (6) Deva. All beings in these six states are doomed to death and rebirth (reincarnation) in a recurring cycle over countless ages.

i have been killing some time on this, these are my assumptions -

1) if u remeber when the fight against jiraiya started 3 guys appeared first. one the hungry guy, one animal guy, its natural to guess the rest is from hell. why, bcos together they make the bottom or lower tier. naturally they are the first to face the heat. also, the third guy looks more depressed, blind like he has suffered the most. also he only uses taijutsu - no ninjutsu at all which requires balancing physical and spiritual energy, which suggests he has little spiritual energy. all the more reason to infer he is from hell.

2) next, upper tier (asura, human, deva) arrives and someone reincarnates the 3.
now it must have been someone from upper tier runs thru his chakra to revive them. reason for my guess is - they cant revive themselves. the dead body captured by konoha is the proof, it is still without life. they need someone else to revive them.

3) yahiko body might be the deva(heavenly being). he is the one who can control rain(heaven), he is the spokeperson of the 6 as he interacts with akatsuki, so he must hold #1 spot of the top tier. since he is heavenly(rest are human and demon) i guess he is the one who revives. one clue(i am not sure of this logic) is when yahiko entered the secret chamber, everybdy else seemed to be sleeping/dead/not moving ??. after some time they were shown ready to fight.

4) the one who throws his huge fist seemed the aggresive demon/asura. humans cant have this large fist. so the rest must be human.

You must be registered for see links

from L-R : Human. Asura, Deva, Animal. Hungry, Hell​

so, i think to defeat pain, deploy few platoon, split them up, kill the yahiko body by any means so that he cant revive others when they are killed. to me this is the plan to defeat the 6 bodies. or this may be crap

now that opens up another ques. what if nagato presents 6 more new bodies? but that will take some time

I agree, definitely a very good analysis.
We'll learn soon, what the TRUE secret of Pein is.

 

[twistedlink]

Jiraiya got his ass whooped by pein with years and years of sage arts experience, the toads arent going to allow naruto to battle pein after a few days, the fight with him and pein is much further away.