[Predictions] Naruto Manga 505 Discussion and 506 Predictions

[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

Silenceofthelambs Minato was the Hokage. Even if Flying Thunder God and all he knew about sealing and the rasengan are strong unique feats, I doubt that they would name him Hokage and replace Sarutobi (a master of jutsu and a legend) if he only knew that. But in the fight with madara, the reality is that there were only two options to counter his abilities: Genjutsu or a space-time jutsu faster than his. Genjutsu, even if minato knew how to used, against and Uchiha it would prove too dificult. So, he used space-time. If he had fire affinity or water or wind, all would not be able to stop Madara. He opted but I believe he had more in his sleeve.

Exactly Minato used the best possible way to counter Madara after seeing Madara's space time techs so its obvious even if Minato didn't use other techs it doesn't mean that he doesn't know other techs. Silenceoflambs said that as Minato didn't use Kage Bunshin that means Minato doesn't have the knowledge of it because how the readers are suppose to know. But there are times when the readers that is us should be able to understand some stuff which aren't mentioned but that's definitely right or true.

 

[abejoker]

Hey, the FTG is called body flicker....how could you explain that?

 

[yondaimeminato]

I don't think Minato knew the Shadow Clone jutsu. If he did, why didn't he use it in combat, against Madara for example? It would have made things easier, don't you think? These are all the techniques Minato knew (to us) because he has not shown any other ones, and thus we must assume that the ones he has shown are the only ones he knew. I think so because Minato might have known more techniques during his life, but since he never displayed them, it can be said that he never really knew them at all. If the manga readers don't see it, then how are we going to know that it is indeed something Minato had knowledge of, but did not show? So far, the ones I have listed, keeping to the facts, are the only techniques Minato knew. If of course, he is shown to have used different jutsu, then yes, a change will be made to the list. But for now these are what we have seen, and naturally all he knew.

So your logic is that if he doesn't show it, he doesn't have it? Then with this logic of yours, madara doesn't have anything else but the ones he has shown so far to us.

Minato didn't need kagebushin against madara. All he needed to defeat madara was FGT, contract seal, rasengan and marking. It was also a very short time fight. Once again defeating someone doesn't necessarily mean that your opponent HAS to die.

In the link below, we see minato performing kagebushin. Why do I say he is going to perform kagebushin? because the stance it's similar to the stance naruto makes every time he is trying to use kagebushin. Also, there are about 30+ kunais on the ground. They all have those marking so that minato can teleport. Since minato wanted to end it in the shortest possible time so he can go check on kakashi, obito and rin. He asked them to throw those kunais and he was going to perform kagebushin and appear all of those kunais at once.

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[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

So your logic is that if he doesn't show it, he doesn't have it? Then with this logic of yours, madara doesn't have anything else but the ones he has shown so far to us.

Minato didn't need kagebushin against madara. All he needed to defeat madara was FGT, contract seal, rasengan and marking. It was also a very short time fight. Once again defeating someone doesn't necessarily mean that your opponent HAS to die.

In the link below, we see minato performing kagebushin. Why do I say he is going to perform kagebushin? because the stance it's similar to the stance naruto makes every time he is trying to use kagebushin. Also, there are about 30+ kunais on the ground. They all have those marking so that minato can teleport. Since minato wanted to end it in the shortest possible time so he can go check on kakashi, obito and rin. He asked them to throw those kunais and he was going to perform kagebushin and appear all of those kunais at once.

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I don't know about the stance Minato took which really looked like using Kage Bunshin but I already gave his answer. You are right just because he didn't use any other techs doesn't mean that Minato can't do or don't have the knowledge of other techs, so saying Minato can't use any other techs because he didn't show any against Madara is very illogical.

 

[spirit]

ok, love this chapter, have been some boring chapters lately (but important chapters).
i have a theory regarding the fourth's teleportation jutsu and that everyone thinks that Naruto pulled off in this Chapter.
i think is most likely "That" jutsu everyone hear about that Jiraya taught him but has never been seen yet.
and also i think it comfirms when the "scroll-frog" says that unleashing the fox powers is the ticket to perfecting "That jutsu" at chapter 469, page 15.
so i think is the FTG.
so to the following chapters i think it's Gai will be the one to beat Kisame.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Minato heard Jiraiya talk about this child of prophesy and a man would be a revolutionary to ninja world. Minato believed that this man was the one who fought that night and he believe that his son was the child of prophesy. He believe that the one who should stop this revolutionary man should be his son and not him. This is another important reason why minato sealed the nine tail demon fox into naruto.

Madara threatened to kill his born child if he did anything to save kushina. Then he forced minato to use his FTG in order to save his child. I know minato is powerful but he is not God to have prevented that situation. Then madara did something so that minato would take long to get to him because madara said that he managed to get away from minato but not for a long time.



Madara hasn't won the war yet. You said that his objective was to destroy konoha but konoha wasn't destroy. To destroy konoha, he would have had to kill everyone and destroy everything about konoha. Why do you think itachi said that madara/mask man/tobi was stopped by the fourth when he tried to destroy konoha. This means that madara did not succeed in destroying konoha.

Yes people died during that night but once again Minato IS NOT GOD. I am sure if minato were to be attacking konoha and madara defending konoha from minato, couple of people would have died as well.



What's madara's major objective right now? It's to comple his Moon Eye Plan. Has madara completed the Moon's eye Plan yet? No. So the war still continues because minato left his legacy to naruto.

I understand the reasons why Minato chose to seal the Nine-Tailed Fox into Naruto, but perhaps the path he chose was not the best one in the long run. It was the most correct one, but not the one that would have benefited everyone down the line.

You tell me that Minato could not have prevented Madara from extracting the Nine-Tailed Fox; actually, yes he could have, but he would have needed to given up something of great importance to him. But would it have been for the greater good?

Madara failed in his objective to destroy Konoha, I agree, but that doesn't mean he came away completely emptyhanded. Minato died, so he essentially removed a major threat from the equation, and as you can see now, it is paying off. I'm sure that Madara would rather have Minato dead and leave Konoha standing rather than the opposite, because if you look at chapter 467, he has better chances in this upcoming war with someone like Minato out of the picture.

While the events sixteen years ago weren't necessarily a war, I think that Madara came out victorious from those night's events simply because Konoha lost so much more than he did. Madara was defeated by Minato in their one-on-one battle, he lost the Nine-Tailed Fox, but consider what Konoha lost. And it wasn't just a couple of people that died; it was many ninja from Konoha who gave their lives fighting for their village.

It's funny, you repeatedly tell me "Minato is not a god," yet in all your posts, you make him out to be one. I definitely agree that Madara had his fair share of failures that night, but apparently you don't think so for Minato. You think that only divine intervention would have been able to stop Madara from doing what he did. That is wrong. Minato could have fully stopped Madara for good, but that would require a fairly large sacrifice. I think that both Minato and Madara won and lost something that night. Madara's objective was a failure, but once again, he got something in almost equal compensation. Minato as well. To defend Konoha was his goal, and he succeeded. But still, it came at a price, as does everything in this world.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Silenceofthelambs Minato was the Hokage. Even if Flying Thunder God and all he knew about sealing and the rasengan are strong unique feats, I doubt that they would name him Hokage and replace Sarutobi (a master of jutsu and a legend) if he only knew that. But in the fight with madara, the reality is that there were only two options to counter his abilities: Genjutsu or a space-time jutsu faster than his. Genjutsu, even if minato knew how to used, against and Uchiha it would prove too dificult. So, he used space-time. If he had fire affinity or water or wind, all would not be able to stop Madara. He opted but I believe he had more in his sleeve.

You don't need many techniques to become Hokage, nor do you need to be the most powerful ninja in the village. All you need to do is love the people you'll be watching over, and love the village. Sarutobi would pass on the title of Hokage to Minato not because of his incredible speed or his techniques, but because of his faith in that which he shall be succeeding, and the duties it holds.

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It's not about power. It's about raising up a generation of ninja, and having faith in them to lead on, just as the Hokage now was left with the same fire from the previous. "That's what it means to be Hokage!"

 

[Regulus]

You don't need many techniques to become Hokage, nor do you need to be the most powerful ninja in the village. All you need to do is love the people you'll be watching over, and love the village. Sarutobi would pass on the title of Hokage to Minato not because of his incredible speed or his techniques, but because of his faith in that which he shall be succeeding, and the duties it holds.

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It's not about power. It's about raising up a generation of ninja, and having faith in them to lead on, just as the Hokage now was left with the same fire from the previous. "That's what it means to be Hokage!"

So your basically saying some genin that only knows like 2 techniques can become kage just because he cares about the village, what would happen if they got attacked and their kage was the last hope?

 

[fuurinkazan]

hi first time on here. first thing i want to say is that i dont think naruto can transport like his dad hes just that quick now and totally awsome manga

 

[silenceofthelambs]

So your basically saying some genin that only knows like 2 techniques can become kage just because he cares about the village, what would happen if they got attacked and their kage was the last hope?

That's a large exaggeration. I didn't even mention Genin in my post. During Pain's invasion of Konoha, Tsunade was not fighting on the front line, was she? No, but as Hokage, she was doing her part by healing all those who were wounded fighting Pain. Just doing that was enough as Fifth Hokage. If you have faith in the villagers, then they will fight for you - cowardice will not survive. Some amount of power is needed, but that is not the Hokage look for in a successor. If it was all about power, why didn't Sarutobi choose Orochimaru to succeed him? Because he knew that he would only use the title of Hokage for his own personal gain, unlike Minato who loved the village. Orochimaru was powerful in his own right, more than so than Minato, wasn't he? But he wasn't chosen because Hiruzen saw through Orochimaru's intentions for the title of Hokage. As I told you, as a Hokage the two main things you need are love for the village and its ninja, and faith in both. What power you have then will not matter at all. It is a common misconception to think that a Hokage has to be the most powerful, and must know the greatest amount of jutsu possible. If you are qualified enough for the position, having worked your way up in the ranks of what a ninja is, you can be a candidate for the position.

 

[Stein]

Guys you're missing an important point. In the story Kishi focuses often on one important fact: That the will to protect beloved beings carries the greatest power. So a Hokage has the greatest power because of his willingness to give his life for the ones he love.
What that means: Not techniques or physical strength defines what true strength is, it's plain love. So every ninja who has always in mind who he is protecting will be strong. Look at Naruto in his fight against Gaara. In this fight he is developing great strength just by knowing who he is fighting for.

So, yes: Being a Hokage means loving and protecting the village. Only those who are willing to do that can become Hokage.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Guys you're missing an important point. In the story Kishi focuses often on one important fact: That the will to protect beloved beings carries the greatest power. So a Hokage has the greatest power because of his willingness to give his life for the ones he love.
What that means: Not techniques or physical strength defines what true strength is, it's plain love. So every ninja who has always in mind who he is protecting will be strong. Look at Naruto in his fight against Gaara. In this fight he is developing great strength just by knowing who he is fighting for.

So, yes: Being a Hokage means loving and protecting the village. Only those who are willing to do that can become Hokage.

That's exactly the point I've been trying to get across. Thank you.

 

[fuurinkazan]

Guys you're missing an important point. In the story Kishi focuses often on one important fact: That the will to protect beloved beings carries the greatest power. So a Hokage has the greatest power because of his willingness to give his life for the ones he love.
What that means: Not techniques or physical strength defines what true strength is, it's plain love. So every ninja who has always in mind who he is protecting will be strong. Look at Naruto in his fight against Gaara. In this fight he is developing great strength just by knowing who he is fighting for.

So, yes: Being a Hokage means loving and protecting the village. Only those who are willing to do that can become Hokage.

well said.

 

[Scorps]

You don't need many techniques to become Hokage, nor do you need to be the most powerful ninja in the village. All you need to do is love the people you'll be watching over, and love the village. Sarutobi would pass on the title of Hokage to Minato not because of his incredible speed or his techniques, but because of his faith in that which he shall be succeeding, and the duties it holds.

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It's not about power. It's about raising up a generation of ninja, and having faith in them to lead on, just as the Hokage now was left with the same fire from the previous. "That's what it means to be Hokage!"

Yes, I agree. You need love for the people. You need passion of konoha. But that doesn't mean squat if you're weak. You need to be strong and powerfull in order to protect the people. Every single Hokage has been the strongest Ninja in Konoha at their time. They have to be. And every Kage is the same.

I assume that Madara is capable of a lot more than what he has shown so far. And the same goes for Minato. He has to be stronger than what we saw. He should have at least mastered one element, and be proficient in all areas of jutsu (genjutsu, taijutsu, ninjutsu). It's common sense.

Examples:

1st- Mastered ninjutsus (water, earth and wood), taijutsu, sealing techniques and was proficient with genjutsu
2nd- Mastered ninjutsus (water, apparently space and time), taijutsu and was knoledgeble of genjutsu and sealing techs.
3rd- Mastered ninjutsu (suppose to know every jutsu in konoha(even if he can't perform them) and we have at least seen him used high levels of fire and earth tecniques), taijutsu, sealing jutsu and was knowledgable of genjutsu.
5th- Mastered ninjutsu (high level of healing techs and basic jutsus), taijutsu, sealing jutsu and had knowledge of genjutsu.

Soooooo, one can assume that minato mastered at least:

Ninjutsu- at least one element + his space time tech
Taijutsu- all kages so far have been strong with it, so he has to be also
Sealing- He used high levels of seals (death god, eight tigrams, contract) and his space time jutsu is also based on a high level sealing tech

And he has to be at least knowledgeble of genjutsu.


He just happens to have used the areas that granted him the most effective defense against Madara, but he didn't use all of his techniques.

Oh and to use kage bushin when he fought Madara would be a mistake. He would split his chakra in two and except for Naruto, spliting your chakra in two gives you a great handicap. No other character in the series can use kage bushin effectivly except for naruto itachi and kakashi. For all others it's hard and useless. In this case, Madara would have beaten a clone easily. Besides, we don't even know if the flying thunder god technique is compatible with kage bushin. Remember that there are some techniques that the clones can't perform, like genjutsu for example.

I just think that if one assumes that Madara has more up his sleeve, it's only logical to assume that Minato had as well.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Yes, I agree. You need love for the people. You need passion of konoha. But that doesn't mean squat if you're weak. You need to be strong and powerfull in order to protect the people. Every single Hokage has been the strongest Ninja in Konoha at their time. They have to be. And every Kage is the same.

I assume that Madara is capable of a lot more than what he has shown so far. And the same goes for Minato. He has to be stronger than what we saw. He should have at least mastered one element, and be proficient in all areas of jutsu (genjutsu, taijutsu, ninjutsu). It's common sense.

Examples:

1st- Mastered ninjutsus (water, earth and wood), taijutsu, sealing techniques and was proficient with genjutsu
2nd- Mastered ninjutsus (water, apparently space and time), taijutsu and was knoledgeble of genjutsu and sealing techs.
3rd- Mastered ninjutsu (suppose to know every jutsu in konoha(even if he can't perform them) and we have at least seen him used high levels of fire and earth tecniques), taijutsu, sealing jutsu and was knowledgable of genjutsu.
5th- Mastered ninjutsu (high level of healing techs and basic jutsus), taijutsu, sealing jutsu and had knowledge of genjutsu.

Soooooo, one can assume that minato mastered at least:

Ninjutsu- at least one element + his space time tech
Taijutsu- all kages so far have been strong with it, so he has to be also
Sealing- He used high levels of seals (death god, eight tigrams, contract) and his space time jutsu is also based on a high level sealing tech

And he has to be at least knowledgeble of genjutsu.


He just happens to have used the areas that granted him the most effective defense against Madara, but he didn't use all of his techniques.

Oh and to use kage bushin when he fought Madara would be a mistake. He would split his chakra in two and except for Naruto, spliting your chakra in two gives you a great handicap. No other character in the series can use kage bushin effectivly except for naruto itachi and kakashi. For all others it's hard and useless. In this case, Madara would have beaten a clone easily. Besides, we don't even know if the flying thunder god technique is compatible with kage bushin. Remember that there are some techniques that the clones can't perform, like genjutsu for example.

I just think that if one assumes that Madara has more up his sleeve, it's only logical to assume that Minato had as well.

Love for the village and the people is what makes you strong, not the number of jutsu a person has. If you have that, then it makes you the strongest person out there.

While every Hokage has been the strongest ninja of their time, that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be. Is Tsunade now the most powerful ninja in Konoha? Your reasoning is incorrect. Every Hokage, or Kage for that matter, is not the same, and there is no obligation that they must be. Why are you putting them all together? Once again, if the title of Hokage was just as much about power as it was about love and faith, why didn't Hiruzen choose Orochimaru to suceed him? Because he did not have love for the village, nor did he have faith in the people. That's why Minato suceeded Hiruzen, not Orochimaru.

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Power is not that important for the title of Hokage. You must have the ability to love and place trust in those which you are defending, and in turn they will fight for you. The determination to never give up, love for the village, faith in the people. If you have all three of these, how many techniques you know matters not. You defend the people with your heart, not the amount of jutsu you know. If it were centered around power so much, the title of Hokage would be long corrupted already. Aristocratic despotism - that is what it would turn into. If you are nobility, and know plenty of techniques, then you can become Hokage, and do whatever you want with the title. Is this what it means to be Hokage?

 

[Scorps]

Silenceofthelambs I have never really got why people dislike your arguments....until now. I like reading most of your arguments and most of your interpretations of the manga are, in my perspective, right, but sometimes....damm, you're so thick. (sorry)

I just...god...

Ok...so it just HAPPENED that every Hokage (and kage) so far has been the strongest ninja in their village...it's just...coincidence. Right? That's your overall message. It's coincidence.

I understand that love passion and determination are problably 50% of what a kage has to be. I agree. But don't say that that's enough. It's stupid to think its like that. A kage has to to love and be willing to protect the village against everyone...but he has to be CAPABLE of doing so. And for that he/she needs to be powerfull, strong, wise and have great knowledge. That's the fact. Even if you don't want to agnowledge that, all the kages in the series so far only prove that you need power. You need to be strong. Or, even with all the will in the world, you won't be able to protect or do anything to save your village when a strong foe comes your way.

Tsunade, when she was named hokage WAS the strongest ninja in the village. Jiraya was the other one strong or stronger than her. And she proved that when she saved the villagers in the pain battle.


But I'll explain something that you don't seem to understand. What's a strong ninja?

1st- Will power/determination/goals/spirit
2nd- Talent
3rd- Unique caracteristics (huge chakra, great chakra control. gekkey kenkai, etc)
4th- Inteligence/wisdom

And all this can mean something more than just firepower. For example, madara who you love so much, until now hasn't shown a single strong attack move and we all agree that he's a strong ninja. He has all of the above. Tsunade, even with her superstrengh, doesn't have a "super attack", but she is powerfull as she is the only ninja capable of doing what she did and capable of saving all the people that she saved. She has all of the above.

So if you read in my words that a strong ninja is someone who has great firepower, it isn't. A strong ninja can for example use techniques like sealing and healing that are difficult to master and still not be strong in battle. But a strong ninja has to have some bigger power than others. He has to have.

Take iruka for example. He loves the village. A lot. But could he become hokage? never. He's an average, normal ninja, with no outstanding techniques in any area. He isn't strong.

Its simple. Sorry to burst your bubble but you're wrong on this one.

 

[Joegonzo]

Love for the village and the people is what makes you strong, not the number of jutsu a person has. If you have that, then it makes you the strongest person out there.

While every Hokage has been the strongest ninja of their time, that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be. Is Tsunade now the most powerful ninja in Konoha? Your reasoning is incorrect. Every Hokage, or Kage for that matter, is not the same, and there is no obligation that they must be. Why are you putting them all together? Once again, if the title of Hokage was just as much about power as it was about love and faith, why didn't Hiruzen choose Orochimaru to suceed him? Because he did not have love for the village, nor did he have faith in the people. That's why Minato suceeded Hiruzen, not Orochimaru.

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Power is not that important for the title of Hokage. You must have the ability to love and place trust in those which you are defending, and in turn they will fight for you. The determination to never give up, love for the village, faith in the people. If you have all three of these, how many techniques you know matters not. You defend the people with your heart, not the amount of jutsu you know. If it were centered around power so much, the title of Hokage would be long corrupted already. Aristocratic despotism - that is what it would turn into. If you are nobility, and know plenty of techniques, then you can become Hokage, and do whatever you want with the title. Is this what it means to be Hokage?

The title of Hokage is supposed to be given to the strongest strongest ninja in the village. Tsunade at the time she was chosen was the strongest ninja in the village. Jiraiya was going to be chosen(because he was the strongest), but he declined. Now we have Naruto and Kakashi who are both likely stronger than Tsunade. Kakashi was going to be chosen as Hokage and would have likley chosen Naruto next. It is said many times throughout the manga that the title of Hokage is given to the strongest ninja in the village. This ninja must also posses a strong "will of fire", but so does every person in the village. That is what makes the leaf village so strong. Every ninja has a strong "will of fire" and will do whatever it takes to protect the village.

Orochimaru was not stronger than Minato either. Minato was considered by many to be the strongest Hokage. Orochimaru is not stronger than any of the Hokage's(when he fought Hiruzen he was like 80).

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That makes it pretty clear that they believe the 4th hokage is stronger. Naruto may not even stand a chance against Minato with his FTG tech.

Also, you don't have to resort to being disrespectful to yondaimeminato when your argument is not working. You seem to look at Madara as if he is a God. If he majorly flawed than surely Minato must be also. There is no way someone can be much stronger than him right?

 

[minatoisagod]

Maybe you're right. And we don't know who's behind the mask. However, every character so far has recognized him as Madara. Itachi, Tsuchikage, Minato himself, etc. So we have to assume that he is Madara. If he isn't, then he fooled a lot of strong inteligent ninja (like minato). He has to be an Uchiha. And one with the MS or EMS. He would not be able to control the fox without it. Zetsu clone? Don't think so. So far, no clone tech in the series is said to be able to copy someones body AND his gekke genkai.

So, he is Uchiha, with MS/EMS, great knowledge of the fox and konoha in it self (including shadowy characters like danzo from whom little was known), great hate for konoha and great knowledge of uchiha techniques...So he has to be an old Uchiha...So...he is Uchiha Madara.

The reason why we haven't seen him do any other technique is still to be explained. But even so, he's like orochimaru. Everyone says that orochimaru was weak and lame and whatever...but still he kept surviving, he was always alive. He was persistent. And even if you consider that sasuke won "easily" he didn't. If itachi hadn't used susano to seal orochimaru away, sasuke would have been overrun in a matter of time. And still he seemed to lose all the battles and his techs didn't seem strong...

Madara is the same. He's weak, he's lame, he's the villain, no one likes him, everyone says that minato is stronger, etc etc.... But Minato is dead...and Madara is alive. SO...who's the weak one?

That's the point I was trying to make. I obviously like Minato. He's and amazing character. Strong. Determine. Etc. But I bet madara still ended that nigh with a smile on his face...

and objectivly speaking, Madara lost the fight...but won the battle.

hahaha nice touch he's dead and madara's alive so whose the strongest. So the 1st was dead and that immortal guy in akatsuki was alive did that make him stronger and he fought the 1st.

 

[Regulus]

That's a large exaggeration. I didn't even mention Genin in my post. During Pain's invasion of Konoha, Tsunade was not fighting on the front line, was she? No, but as Hokage, she was doing her part by healing all those who were wounded fighting Pain. Just doing that was enough as Fifth Hokage. If you have faith in the villagers, then they will fight for you - cowardice will not survive. Some amount of power is needed, but that is not the Hokage look for in a successor. If it was all about power, why didn't Sarutobi choose Orochimaru to succeed him? Because he knew that he would only use the title of Hokage for his own personal gain, unlike Minato who loved the village. Orochimaru was powerful in his own right, more than so than Minato, wasn't he? But he wasn't chosen because Hiruzen saw through Orochimaru's intentions for the title of Hokage. As I told you, as a Hokage the two main things you need are love for the village and its ninja, and faith in both. What power you have then will not matter at all. It is a common misconception to think that a Hokage has to be the most powerful, and must know the greatest amount of jutsu possible. If you are qualified enough for the position, having worked your way up in the ranks of what a ninja is, you can be a candidate for the position.

If power does not matter then anyone can become hookage if they have love for the ninjaa and the village following you logic, Hashirama had to defend against Madara, Hiuzen had to defend agains Orochimaru, Minato had to defend against Madara, Tsunade had to heal the village and was ready to fight Pain. 4 out of 5 Hokages had to be strong and had to defend their village. Lets say Hiruzen wasnt that great of a ninja, and he had to rely on Jounin to help him, what Jounin would be able to take down Orochimaru, who in the entire village would be able to take out Orochimaru? Kages need to be powerful as well

 

[Scorps]

hahaha nice touch he's dead and madara's alive so whose the strongest. So the 1st was dead and that immortal guy in akatsuki was alive did that make him stronger and he fought the 1st.

Lol I know. It's not like that. But it was a nice touch...lol