[Predictions] Naruto Manga 505 Discussion and 506 Predictions

[Stein]

You're wrong. Minato used a Contract Seal to free the Nine-Tails' control from Madara after fighting him, not before. Reread chapters 502 and 503.

Hm, I read it again and Madara explains that he even did it WHILE finishing him off. ^^

 

[Scorps]

This is true. Some of Madara's power went towards controlling the Nine-Tailed Fox to make sure it continues its rampage, and even still, in his even more weakened state (exerting control over the fox) fought a fully powered Minato to make sure he didn't interfere with the Nine-Tails' destruction of Konoha. It was just like Naruto battling Pain; Pain was more powerful than Naruto at that point in time, but Pain had just finished destroying Konoha, and consequently the most powerful path, god realm, was unable to participate in the first half of the battle, thus forcing Pain to remain on the defensive until god realm's powers came back.

Madara was more powerful than Minato back then (even as an empty shell of his former self), but having to control something like the Nine-Tails (which obviously takes a great deal of strength) obviously prevented Madara from fighting Minato with all the power he had. Besides, even though Minato did land a Rasengan on Madara, and pulled the fox from his control with a Contract Seal, Madara then could have just remained intangible because he did not have to worry about the amount of time he could keep the Nine-Tails under his control.

Though having lost in their one-on-one battle, Madara's actions still forced Minato to sacrifice himself to deal with the Nine-Tails. I don't know whether this can be considered a victory on Madara's part or not, but it is safe to say that both Minato and Madara won and lost something on that night. Madara failed to destroy Konoha, lost the Nine-Tailed Fox, but did essentially kill Minato and Kushina through the Nine-Tails, and also killed off a good number of the village's ninja who fought for the village's sake that night. Konoha as well, was not entirely destroyed, but was left in ruins, as with the conclusion of Orochimaru's invasion of Konoha.

Many people seem to think that Minato won and Madara failed entirely in his ojectives, but this is not true. Even if he did not destroy Konoha, Madara made the path for his plans easier by getting rid of Minato because if he had remained alive, that would have been a greater danger to Madara. But now that he is dead, it is a threat removed from the equation, like Itachi. And we still don't know exactly where the yin portion of the Nine-Tails' chakra is. Considering Madara's Moon's Eye Plan, centered on the resurrectin of the Jubi, it is possible that he might have the yin half for future purposes. Although we don't know this, it could be possible the more information we get as the chapters go by.

Hum...it's very subjective to determine who won. My theories about madara's power and madara's left eye are well known. His eye is up to something. And that's one of the reasons why he was weakened against minato. Hate me if you want, but even minato (a strong ninja, a genius) wouldn't be a match for a halfpowered Madara. Think about it: it took the strongest living ninja to defeat him (the 1st), and even him couldn't kill him. I mean, minato is awesome, but the 1st controlled wood (and we all could see what yamato can do, you just have to multiply it by a 100) wich meant he could control super high level techniques of both water and earth, he used genjutsu, he was experienced in sealing jutsu, he was strong in taijutsu, he had great chakra.... Minato surprised Madara with his speed, but even his strongest attack (rasengan) didn't do that much damage in Madara. Madara's purpose was never to win against Minato, it was to unleash the fox and destroy konoha. He achieved the 1st, and almost managed the second. Minato was just someone he had to deal during the whole thing. Cheers to minato for managing to disrupt Madara's control of the fox and to be able to strike at him. However, none of those things were effective. Madara still took the fox out of kushina. He still was able out-manuveur Minato in the whole deal. We can say minato won in the sense that Madara ended up retreating but it could be his plan to do so.

I know you all don't accept arguments in favour of Madara, but everyone has to admit that he has been smarter than all other characters in the series so far. Even the 1st. He is a great ninja, albeit an evil one. If his purpose that night was to kill minato directly, not to unleash the fox, he would have been capable of doing so.

What intrigues me is madara's truth: his face behind the mask, what happened to his left eye, what is he really capable of, how can he live for so long and what are his real objectives (that whole moon eye plan I think was just to decieve the kages)?

 

[Regulus]

Hum...it's very subjective to determine who won. My theories about madara's power and madara's left eye are well known. His eye is up to something. And that's one of the reasons why he was weakened against minato. Hate me if you want, but even minato (a strong ninja, a genius) wouldn't be a match for a halfpowered Madara. Think about it: it took the strongest living ninja to defeat him (the 1st), and even him couldn't kill him. I mean, minato is awesome, but the 1st controlled wood (and we all could see what yamato can do, you just have to multiply it by a 100) wich meant he could control super high level techniques of both water and earth, he used genjutsu, he was experienced in sealing jutsu, he was strong in taijutsu, he had great chakra.... Minato surprised Madara with his speed, but even his strongest attack (rasengan) didn't do that much damage in Madara. Madara's purpose was never to win against Minato, it was to unleash the fox and destroy konoha. He achieved the 1st, and almost managed the second. Minato was just someone he had to deal during the whole thing. Cheers to minato for managing to disrupt Madara's control of the fox and to be able to strike at him. However, none of those things were effective. Madara still took the fox out of kushina. He still was able out-manuveur Minato in the whole deal. We can say minato won in the sense that Madara ended up retreating but it could be his plan to do so.

I know you all don't accept arguments in favour of Madara, but everyone has to admit that he has been smarter than all other characters in the series so far. Even the 1st. He is a great ninja, albeit an evil one. If his purpose that night was to kill minato directly, not to unleash the fox, he would have been capable of doing so.

What intrigues me is madara's truth: his face behind the mask, what happened to his left eye, what is he really capable of, how can he live for so long and what are his real objectives (that whole moon eye plan I think was just to decieve the kages)?

Madara is a great ninja, but their is no difinitive proof that is Madara. Plus Minato defeated the greatest space-time jutsu yet seen

 

[Scorps]

Madara is a great ninja, but their is no difinitive proof that is Madara. Plus Minato defeated the greatest space-time jutsu yet seen

Yes, that's true...we still don't know if it really is Madara. And Minato was capable of surppassing his technique.

But I don't believe that Madara being able to make his body intangible is a space-time technique. It appears more like the ability to control the molecules of his body, not to control space or time. That is the ability in his right eye wich seems to be Kamui but at blank point. Like a self applied Kamui, sending himself to another dimension and then allowing him to return to any location he wants in the real dimension. Kakashi problably can't use it or doesn't understand it because he is not and uchiha and barely has control over it.

But the ability to become pervious to attacks... it can also be Izanagi, permantly active like i once said.

I'll quote myself:
"There is another way to explain everything that Madara has shown so far. Even his deception when he tricked the first in believing he was dead.

Well, if Eternal Mangeykou Sharingan is a form of sharingan that never loses it's "light", can it cast Izanagi without being rendered useless?
What if his space time jutsu is nothing more than izanagi? remember that danzo showed more or less that ability when using izanagi. attacks passed through him. And with madara one can consider that he would be more adept at it than a non-uchiha, allowing him to use it more freely and with greater ability. It would explain the eye we never see (it's beeing kept active with izanagi the whole time), the ability to pass through things, being impervious to attack, the inability to use other jutsu (his chakra is being used constantly in izanagi) and it could explain how he's still alive (it's a genjutsu that allows you to shape your reality, so he can be shapping his so that it keeps him alive, and that's another reason to keep the hidden eye always active).
"

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Hum...it's very subjective to determine who won. My theories about madara's power and madara's left eye are well known. His eye is up to something. And that's one of the reasons why he was weakened against minato. Hate me if you want, but even minato (a strong ninja, a genius) wouldn't be a match for a halfpowered Madara. Think about it: it took the strongest living ninja to defeat him (the 1st), and even him couldn't kill him. I mean, minato is awesome, but the 1st controlled wood (and we all could see what yamato can do, you just have to multiply it by a 100) wich meant he could control super high level techniques of both water and earth, he used genjutsu, he was experienced in sealing jutsu, he was strong in taijutsu, he had great chakra.... Minato surprised Madara with his speed, but even his strongest attack (rasengan) didn't do that much damage in Madara. Madara's purpose was never to win against Minato, it was to unleash the fox and destroy konoha. He achieved the 1st, and almost managed the second. Minato was just someone he had to deal during the whole thing. Cheers to minato for managing to disrupt Madara's control of the fox and to be able to strike at him. However, none of those things were effective. Madara still took the fox out of kushina. He still was able out-manuveur Minato in the whole deal. We can say minato won in the sense that Madara ended up retreating but it could be his plan to do so.

I know you all don't accept arguments in favour of Madara, but everyone has to admit that he has been smarter than all other characters in the series so far. Even the 1st. He is a great ninja, albeit an evil one. If his purpose that night was to kill minato directly, not to unleash the fox, he would have been capable of doing so.

What intrigues me is madara's truth: his face behind the mask, what happened to his left eye, what is he really capable of, how can he live for so long and what are his real objectives (that whole moon eye plan I think was just to decieve the kages)?

You're correct. It was only because of Madara's goal (to destroy Konoha using the Nine-Tails) that he lost against Minato; if his real purpose was to come to Konoha with the intention of killing the Fourth Hokage, he would have been able to do so, even in his weakened state.

Let's put it like this: Minato won in a smaller sense, but Madara won in the grand scheme of things. Despite striking him with a Rasengan (which was shown to have practically no effect on Madara), and pulling the Nine-Tails free from Madara's control, Madara still won the conflict he began that night. Konoha lost so much that night, all of which is unobtainable now, and although Madara also lost something, the Nine-Tailed Fox, on that night, what he sacrificed can be retained.

As you stated, even Hashirama Senju, who had Mokuton techniques designed to suppress the fox (aside from all his other extraordinary abilities), failed to kill Madara during their memorable battle - how could we expect Minato to pull off the same thing? Madara retreated, I agree on that point, but Madara also outplayed Minato by that night's end. Minato died to deal with the weapon Madara unleashed upon Konoha, and could not even tell Hiruzen or anyone else that Madara was actually behind the Nine-Tailed Fox's attack. Madara managed to keep his identity safe (which is something he has done for many years now) and that was crucial in letting his plans move forward. The Uchiha clan, years later, would be massacred because that vital piece of information fell through the cracks.

In my opinion, Madara is the smartest character in the series (becoming Kage of an entire nation), and has frequently been shown to manipulate intelligent people (Nagato and Sasuke) into doing his bidding. Minato recognized this, and despite having struck Madara with a Rasengan and using a Contract Seal to nullify Madara's control of the fox, knew that none of those attacks would actually defeat Madara. Madara lost the battle, but he won the war. At the end of the day, the fact that no one figured out Madara was still alive was a definite advantage for him - as well as the numerous casualties Konoha suffered trying to delay the Nine-Tails' destruction of everything in its path, those including Minato and Kushina. That to me can be considered a victory for Madara. But I do say that Konoha was partially successful in stopping Madara, forcing him to wait (or possibly not, as he told Minato "many doors are still left open to me") a considerable amount of time before he can pick up where he left off with his plans, whatever they might be.

Soon, though, we shall see exactly what Madara has kept hidden for all these years, and how powerful he really is.

 

[yondaimeminato]

This is true. Some of Madara's power went towards controlling the Nine-Tailed Fox to make sure it continues its rampage, and even still, in his even more weakened state (exerting control over the fox) fought a fully powered Minato to make sure he didn't interfere with the Nine-Tails' destruction of Konoha. It was just like Naruto battling Pain; Pain was more powerful than Naruto at that point in time, but Pain had just finished destroying Konoha, and consequently the most powerful path, god realm, was unable to participate in the first half of the battle, thus forcing Pain to remain on the defensive until god realm's powers came back.

Madara was more powerful than Minato back then (even as an empty shell of his former self), but having to control something like the Nine-Tails (which obviously takes a great deal of strength) obviously prevented Madara from fighting Minato with all the power he had. Besides, even though Minato did land a Rasengan on Madara, and pulled the fox from his control with a Contract Seal, Madara then could have just remained intangible because he did not have to worry about the amount of time he could keep the Nine-Tails under his control.

Though having lost in their one-on-one battle, Madara's actions still forced Minato to sacrifice himself to deal with the Nine-Tails. I don't know whether this can be considered a victory on Madara's part or not, but it is safe to say that both Minato and Madara won and lost something on that night. Madara failed to destroy Konoha, lost the Nine-Tailed Fox, but did essentially kill Minato and Kushina through the Nine-Tails, and also killed off a good number of the village's ninja who fought for the village's sake that night. Konoha as well, was not entirely destroyed, but was left in ruins, as with the conclusion of Orochimaru's invasion of Konoha.

Many people seem to think that Minato won and Madara failed entirely in his ojectives, but this is not true. Even if he did not destroy Konoha, Madara made the path for his plans easier by getting rid of Minato because if he had remained alive, that would have been a greater danger to Madara. But now that he is dead, it is a threat removed from the equation, like Itachi. And we still don't know exactly where the yin portion of the Nine-Tails' chakra is. Considering Madara's Moon's Eye Plan, centered on the resurrectin of the Jubi, it is possible that he might have the yin half for future purposes. Although we don't know this, it could be possible the more information we get as the chapters go by.

First of all, this empty shell of madara, we have only seen him using a kumai-like technique and making his body tangible. Madara can take people to the dimension he wants by touching them and extracting them. It's very simple but none of these worked with minato. All his technique we have seen him used throughout naruto manga were stopped by Minato. Don't say that because he was controlling the nine tail demon fox, he was slower. Everything was fully working for madara. He was able to teleport at will, making his body tangible and using that kumai-like power he has to take people to another dimension. They were fully working when he was fighting minato. His technique was faster than minato's yes but strategically Minato won. It was all over for Madara once he got tagged by minato if he had continued the fight. He didn't know where he was tagged just like it would have been over for any ninja once tagged. "Any".

In naruto vs pain. The main god realm's power wasn't recover and he have seen it not working. Even he confirms it. But mask man/tobi/madara vs minato it's different. His technique was still working like it always does. He was still able to use that kumai-like power to take people to other dimension. He was still able to make his body tangible. I don't see any restrictions here. We haven't really seen madara/tobi/mask man using any other power in "naruto manga" other than the ones he had shown us.

Plus, the fight wasn't long. It was probably like few minutes.

If madara forced minato to use his death god seal then madara is not smart. Half of the nine tail demon fox is sealed within the death god seal for all eternity. Unless madara knows how to undo the seal of the death god seal, he is not going to get the other half of the nine tail demon fox and this destroys any plans he has. Plus the thing he waited "very long time" to get from kushina was sealed again into a person that probably won't have a weakened state where madara will easily be able to break the nine tail demon fox free. It was because the seal of kushina was in a weakened state that madara got hold of the nine tail demon fox in the first place. Naruto wasn't going to have a childbirth or anything so his seal stayed strong.

If I would have been madara/mask man/tobi, I would have quietly retreated without saying anything to minato then minato wouldn't have make it almost impossible to get the nine tail demon fox again.

now, he is in a very big trouble after seeing the latest chapter.

 

[siyo]

You're correct. It was only because of Madara's goal (to destroy Konoha using the Nine-Tails) that he lost against Minato; if his real purpose was to come to Konoha with the intention of killing the Fourth Hokage, he would have been able to do so, even in his weakened state.

lol you forget one little important thing.The fourth hokage job was to watch over KONAHA! Therefore he naturally expected the fourth to be an obstacle.So he calculated in his mind that he could destroy konaha AND the fourth at the same time(or distract him long enough).You can say he was overconfident or he handled it wrongly but not that the hokage showin g up was a surprise.

 

[vlive6]

You're correct. It was only because of Madara's goal (to destroy Konoha using the Nine-Tails) that he lost against Minato; if his real purpose was to come to Konoha with the intention of killing the Fourth Hokage, he would have been able to do so, even in his weakened state.

Let's put it like this: Minato won in a smaller sense, but Madara won in the grand scheme of things. Despite striking him with a Rasengan (which was shown to have practically no effect on Madara), and pulling the Nine-Tails free from Madara's control, Madara still won the conflict he began that night. Konoha lost so much that night, all of which is unobtainable now, and although Madara also lost something, the Nine-Tailed Fox, on that night, what he sacrificed can be retained.

As you stated, even Hashirama Senju, who had Mokuton techniques designed to suppress the fox (aside from all his other extraordinary abilities), failed to kill Madara during their memorable battle - how could we expect Minato to pull off the same thing? Madara retreated, I agree on that point, but Madara also outplayed Minato by that night's end. Minato died to deal with the weapon Madara unleashed upon Konoha, and could not even tell Hiruzen or anyone else that Madara was actually behind the Nine-Tailed Fox's attack. Madara managed to keep his identity safe (which is something he has done for many years now) and that was crucial in letting his plans move forward. The Uchiha clan, years later, would be massacred because that vital piece of information fell through the cracks.

In my opinion, Madara is the smartest character in the series (becoming Kage of an entire nation), and has frequently been shown to manipulate intelligent people (Nagato and Sasuke) into doing his bidding. Minato recognized this, and despite having struck Madara with a Rasengan and using a Contract Seal to nullify Madara's control of the fox, knew that none of those attacks would actually defeat Madara. Madara lost the battle, but he won the war. At the end of the day, the fact that no one figured out Madara was still alive was a definite advantage for him - as well as the numerous casualties Konoha suffered trying to delay the Nine-Tails' destruction of everything in its path, those including Minato and Kushina. That to me can be considered a victory for Madara. But I do say that Konoha was partially successful in stopping Madara, forcing him to wait (or possibly not, as he told Minato "many doors are still left open to me") a considerable amount of time before he can pick up where he left off with his plans, whatever they might be.

Soon, though, we shall see exactly what Madara has kept hidden for all these years, and how powerful he really is.

I do believe that Madara has more advanced space time ninjutsu, but saying that we absolutley know that he would have defeated minato... I wouldnt go that far.. Madara and Minato are characters we didnt watch grow up and grow in power we have no way of knowing what all techniques they each know. Also consider the fact that Minato is said to be the most powerful Hokage so far, this includes the 1st who actually beat Madara @ his best.
True Madara is an awesome foe, and who knows what he has in store , thats what makes this manga so exciting,, you never know whats to come next
just think back when kakashi and team 7 were fighting haku and Zabuza, we would have never imagined sage mode, space time ninjutsu, FTG, ect... I know I wouldnt have!
I admit that when it comes to space time manipulation that Madaras is more advanced, Minato said it himself.
Still doesnt mean he would have won tho...
I even believe that Minato probably knew sage mode..Dont argue, u cant prove that he didnt ;;; who knows what other techniques he knew
Also Madara dont look at it as madara killed Minato , Minato could have let Kushina take the fox with her, and went on to live his life with his son, but he chose a different path.
Considering madara has had plenty of time to learn and plot who knows how powerful he has become.
I think that its gonna take Naruto and Sauske to defeat him

 

[silenceofthelambs]

First of all, this empty shell of madara, we have only seen him using a kumai-like technique and making his body tangible. Madara can take people to the dimension he wants by touching them and extracting them. It's very simple but none of these worked with minato. All his technique we have seen him used throughout naruto manga were stopped by Minato. Don't say that because he was controlling the nine tail demon fox, he was slower. Everything was fully working for madara. He was able to teleport at will, making his body tangible and using that kumai-like power he has to take people to another dimension. They were fully working when he was fighting minato. His technique was faster than minato's yes but strategically Minato won. It was all over for Madara once he got tagged by minato if he had continued the fight. He didn't know where he was tagged just like it would have been over for any ninja once tagged. "Any".

In naruto vs pain. The main god realm's power wasn't recover and he have seen it not working. Even he confirms it. But mask man/tobi/madara vs minato it's different. His technique was still working like it always does. He was still able to use that kumai-like power to take people to other dimension. He was still able to make his body tangible. I don't see any restrictions here. We haven't really seen madara/tobi/mask man using any other power in "naruto manga" other than the ones he had shown us.

Plus, the fight wasn't long. It was probably like few minutes.

If madara forced minato to use his death god seal then madara is not smart. Half of the nine tail demon fox is sealed within the death god seal for all eternity. Unless madara knows how to undo the seal of the death god seal, he is not going to get the other half of the nine tail demon fox and this destroys any plans he has. Plus the thing he waited "very long time" to get from kushina was sealed again into a person that probably won't have a weakened stage where madara will easily be able to break the nine tail demon fox free. It was because the seal of kushina was in a weakened stage that madara got hold of the nine tail demon fox in the first place. Naruto wasn't going to have a childbirth or anything so his seal would have stayed strong.

If I would have been madara/mask man/tobi, I would have quietly retreated without saying anything to minato then minato wouldn't have make it almost impossible to get the nine tail demon fox again.

now, he is in a very big trouble after seeing the latest chapter.

You don't know if that's the extent of his powers. Madara has claimed to have no more power after his defeat to Hashirama Senju, but then again he could be lying. We have only seen him teleport over great distances at will, make his body selectively tangible, and warp people into a separate dimension, but that is what we have seen, not all there is to know about Madara and his current powers.

Sure, Minato might have won the battle, but as I have said, Madara's plans were not a failure either. Minato and Kushina died that night to deal with the weapon Madara had loosened on the village, as did many other ninja; and aside from that, the village was still left in ruins. Minato won the battle, but Madara won the war. He lost the Nine-Tails, I agree with you, but Konoha lost so much more.

Also, the yin half of the Nine-Tailed Fox's chakra might very well be in Madara's possession, considering his Moon's Eye Plan, and his intention to revive the Jubi. Why would Madara even have the goal of resurrecting the Jubi if he did not have the materials necessary to achieve it? Has Madara really been chasing a physically impossible goal all this time? I really doubt that. Also, even though Madara retreated, you don't know where he went after using his space-time ninjutsu to leave the battlefield. The place he might have gone to after losing that battle might be important, such as the location of the ancient tablet carrying the secrets of the Sage of the Six Paths and the Jubi, beneath Konoha.

We will need more information on the mechanics of Madara's Moon's Eye Plan, because he needs that other part of the fox's chakra to make his plan whole, and he might just have it. It's too early to say. But I don't think Madara was entirely defeated sixteen years ago - he both lost and gained something, the same with Minato. He failed to protect Kushina, but he was successful in removing the fox, saving Konoha for the time being. Though, Minato did tell Naruto that Madara would attack Konoha again, making the sealing of the Nine-Tails only a temporary solution to the problems the Naruto world will soon face.

 

[Scorps]

First of all, this empty shell of madara, we have only seen him using a kumai-like technique and making his body tangible. Madara can take people to the dimension he wants by touching them and extracting them. It's very simple but none of these worked with minato. All his technique we have seen him used throughout naruto manga were stopped by Minato. Don't say that because he was controlling the nine tail demon fox, he was slower. Everything was fully working for madara. He was able to teleport at will, making his body tangible and using that kumai-like power he has to take people to another dimension. They were fully working when he was fighting minato. His technique was faster than minato's yes but strategically Minato won. It was all over for Madara once he got tagged by minato if he had continued the fight. He didn't know where he was tagged just like it would have been over for any ninja once tagged. "Any".

In naruto vs pain. The main god realm's power wasn't recover and he have seen it not working. Even he confirms it. But mask man/tobi/madara vs minato it's different. His technique was still working like it always does. He was still able to use that kumai-like power to take people to other dimension. He was still able to make his body tangible. I don't see any restrictions here. We haven't really seen madara/tobi/mask man using any other power in "naruto manga" other than the ones he had shown us.

Plus, the fight wasn't long. It was probably like few minutes.

If madara forced minato to use his death god seal then madara is not smart. Half of the nine tail demon fox is sealed within the death god seal for all eternity. Unless madara knows how to undo the seal of the death god seal, he is not going to get the other half of the nine tail demon fox and this destroys any plans he has. Plus the thing he waited "very long time" to get from kushina was sealed again into a person that probably won't have a weakened state where madara will easily be able to break the nine tail demon fox free. It was because the seal of kushina was in a weakened state that madara got hold of the nine tail demon fox in the first place. Naruto wasn't going to have a childbirth or anything so his seal stayed strong.

If I would have been madara/mask man/tobi, I would have quietly retreated without saying anything to minato then minato wouldn't have make it almost impossible to get the nine tail demon fox again.

now, he is in a very big trouble after seeing the latest chapter.

Maybe you're right. And we don't know who's behind the mask. However, every character so far has recognized him as Madara. Itachi, Tsuchikage, Minato himself, etc. So we have to assume that he is Madara. If he isn't, then he fooled a lot of strong inteligent ninja (like minato). He has to be an Uchiha. And one with the MS or EMS. He would not be able to control the fox without it. Zetsu clone? Don't think so. So far, no clone tech in the series is said to be able to copy someones body AND his gekke genkai.

So, he is Uchiha, with MS/EMS, great knowledge of the fox and konoha in it self (including shadowy characters like danzo from whom little was known), great hate for konoha and great knowledge of uchiha techniques...So he has to be an old Uchiha...So...he is Uchiha Madara.

The reason why we haven't seen him do any other technique is still to be explained. But even so, he's like orochimaru. Everyone says that orochimaru was weak and lame and whatever...but still he kept surviving, he was always alive. He was persistent. And even if you consider that sasuke won "easily" he didn't. If itachi hadn't used susano to seal orochimaru away, sasuke would have been overrun in a matter of time. And still he seemed to lose all the battles and his techs didn't seem strong...

Madara is the same. He's weak, he's lame, he's the villain, no one likes him, everyone says that minato is stronger, etc etc.... But Minato is dead...and Madara is alive. SO...who's the weak one?

That's the point I was trying to make. I obviously like Minato. He's and amazing character. Strong. Determine. Etc. But I bet madara still ended that nigh with a smile on his face...

and objectivly speaking, Madara lost the fight...but won the battle.

 

[QuitoIsGreat]

Naruto doesn't need the frogs to get into Sage mode. He doesn't need clones to enter Sage mode, he only has them so he can continue in Sage Mode after the time runs out. I'm sure in his current state he can stay in Sage mode a lot longer.

I'm not entirely sure he would be able to extend his sage mode. The key in sage mode is to balance your own chakra with sage chakra. When naruto is in his new fox mode, his own chakra isn't enlarged, so he wont be able to add more sage chakra without himself being overtaken and turned into a frog.

 

[yondaimeminato]

You don't know if that's the extent of his powers. Madara has claimed to have no more power after his defeat to Hashirama Senju, but then again he could be lying. We have only seen him teleport over great distances at will, make his body selectively tangible, and warp people into a separate dimension, but that is what we have seen, not all there is to know about Madara and his current powers.

Sure, Minato might have won the battle, but as I have said, Madara's plans were not a failure either. Minato and Kushina died that night to deal with the weapon Madara had loosened on the village, as did many other ninja; and aside from that, the village was still left in ruins. Minato won the battle, but Madara won the war. He lost the Nine-Tails, I agree with you, but Konoha lost so much more.

Also, the yin half of the Nine-Tailed Fox's chakra might very well be in Madara's possession, considering his Moon's Eye Plan, and his intention to revive the Jubi. Why would Madara even have the goal of resurrecting the Jubi if he did not have the materials necessary to achieve it? Has Madara really been chasing a physically impossible goal all this time? I really doubt that. Also, even though Madara retreated, you don't know where he went after using his space-time ninjutsu to leave the battlefield. The place he might have gone to after losing that battle might be important, such as the location of the ancient tablet carrying the secrets of the Sage of the Six Paths and the Jubi, beneath Konoha.

We will need more information on the mechanics of Madara's Moon's Eye Plan, because he needs that other part of the fox's chakra to make his plan whole, and he might just have it. It's too early to say. But I don't think Madara was entirely defeated sixteen years ago - he both lost and gained something, the same with Minato. He failed to protect Kushina, but he was successful in removing the fox, saving Konoha for the time being. Though, Minato did tell Naruto that Madara would attack Konoha again, making the sealing of the Nine-Tails only a temporary solution to the problems the Naruto world will soon face.

You don't know the extent of minato's power as well and we don't know a lot about minato as well like his parents. Who knows how many other powerful seals, minato learned from kushina. What about his own powers as well.

Left in ruins? probably a section of it was damaged but not all of it.

Why would he be doing the moon eye plan? because he doesn't know. He is probably sure that naruto has the full power of the nine tail demon fox sealed inside of him.

 

[donnic]

wow ok i may be late on noticing this but one manga pretty much no longer exists now since all the manga is getting licensed now *sigh* whats this world coming too!!!!!!! i hope naruto doesn't get attack because i will be sad if naruto base goes down and/or becomes a paying site

 

[yondaimeminato]

Maybe you're right. And we don't know who's behind the mask. However, every character so far has recognized him as Madara. Itachi, Tsuchikage, Minato himself, etc. So we have to assume that he is Madara. If he isn't, then he fooled a lot of strong inteligent ninja (like minato). He has to be an Uchiha. And one with the MS or EMS. He would not be able to control the fox without it. Zetsu clone? Don't think so. So far, no clone tech in the series is said to be able to copy someones body AND his gekke genkai.

So, he is Uchiha, with MS/EMS, great knowledge of the fox and konoha in it self (including shadowy characters like danzo from whom little was known), great hate for konoha and great knowledge of uchiha techniques...So he has to be an old Uchiha...So...he is Uchiha Madara.

The reason why we haven't seen him do any other technique is still to be explained. But even so, he's like orochimaru. Everyone says that orochimaru was weak and lame and whatever...but still he kept surviving, he was always alive. He was persistent. And even if you consider that sasuke won "easily" he didn't. If itachi hadn't used susano to seal orochimaru away, sasuke would have been overrun in a matter of time. And still he seemed to lose all the battles and his techs didn't seem strong...

Madara is the same. He's weak, he's lame, he's the villain, no one likes him, everyone says that minato is stronger, etc etc.... But Minato is dead...and Madara is alive. SO...who's the weak one?

That's the point I was trying to make. I obviously like Minato. He's and amazing character. Strong. Determine. Etc. But I bet madara still ended that nigh with a smile on his face...

and objectivly speaking, Madara lost the fight...but won the battle.

No, minato wasn't fooled by this masked man. He didn't care who he was. The only thing that matter the most was defeating him fast so he can save the village. He made an assumption that he would be madara but he said he didn't care who he was after he asked the mask man who he was.

This masked man body is another big myth. To me he is like sasori but in another form and type.

You don't defy a person strong just because he can live long. Madara is living long but so far he has been stopped and defeated a long the way so he is not strong but he can live long.

Madara hasn't completed his objective yet. So you can't say he has won objectively.

 

[yondaimeminato]

wow ok i may be late on noticing this but one manga pretty much no longer exists now since all the manga is getting licensed now *sigh* whats this world coming too!!!!!!! i hope naruto doesn't get attack because i will be sad if naruto base goes down and/or becomes a paying site

this sucks...

 

[Mystikk]

I'm not entirely sure he would be able to extend his sage mode. The key in sage mode is to balance your own chakra with sage chakra. When naruto is in his new fox mode, his own chakra isn't enlarged, so he wont be able to add more sage chakra without himself being overtaken and turned into a frog.

Either way this is going to be sooo awsome .. jus thinking about how strong sasuke was taking on 5 kages .. managing to kill the one he wanted!!! and naruto still saying he wasn't as strong as sasuke after he defeated the god of shinobi!!!

Naruto has just reached a new level of chakra ... soo full of life energy.. this is how he will surpass the 1st and all previous hokages .. he maybe able to create nature.. sasuke has no chance of naruto even after his upgrade to EMS.. but he will be able to fight and kick his ass for alittle before naruto grabs all of the 9tails chakra stored away...

One more thing guys ... its a quote from a ninja that died in the series that all ways has me mind boggled about naruto and the series... It's from Haku. and quote. "You will get strong, VERY strong".

He is getting insanely strong, everytime I think about Haku an that quote I smile cuz he was rite.

 

[Mystikk]

this sucks...

yea I dont think I will pay ... I was gonna stop reading anyways, because I wanted to watch the naruto vs sasuke fight live, with no knowledge of how naruto is going to win.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

You don't know the extent of minato's power as well and we don't know a lot about minato as well like his parents. Who knows how many other powerful seals, minato learned from kushina. What about his own powers as well.

Left in ruins? probably a section of it was damaged but not all of it.

Why would he be doing the moon eye plan? because he doesn't know. He is probably sure that naruto has the full power of the nine tail demon fox sealed inside of him.

No, we have seen the extent of his power. We've seen Minato in action using his Flying Thunder God technique, the Summoning Technique, the Rasengan (against Madara, for example), a space-time barrier technique, a Contract Seal, and we've seen use various sealing techniques. Such was the extent of Minato's powers up until his death. If Minato were to live longer, he would have gone very far, but that in itself is an assumption - we cannot know for sure.

But one thing I don't agree with is your statement about the Moon's Eye Plan. You mean to tell me, that Madara, who has been said to "know everything," according to the Fifth Mizukage, is working towards a goal that has been a failure from the start? That seems extremely unlikely to me. Madara has an incredibly vast knowledge of his world - why wouldn't he know that Minato divided the fox's chakra into two, one part having sealed into Naruto, and the other with himself? You can't just write Madara off by saying "he doesn't know;" if he didn't, then the series is not that interesting anymore. That means all the manga readers, according to your logic, now know that Madara's plan will not suceed. What are we expecting then? It seems more than likely that Madara does know, and perhaps in a flashback of sort it will be revealed exactly how he has figured it out.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

No, minato wasn't fooled by this masked man. He didn't care who he was. The only thing that matter the most was defeating him fast so he can save the village. He made an assumption that he would be madara but he said he didn't care who he was after he asked the mask man who he was.

This masked man body is another big myth. To me he is like sasori but in another form and type.

You don't defy a person strong just because he can live long. Madara is living long but so far he has been stopped and defeated a long the way so he is not strong but he can live long.

Madara hasn't completed his objective yet. So you can't say he has won objectively.

Minato was fooled by Madara. How can you say that he wasn't when Madara took Kushina away to extract the Nine-Tails, and Minato did not a single thing about it? Although Minato was not interested in who the masked man was, he both did and did not defeat him that night. During their one-on-one battle, Minato won, I agree, but Madara clearly came away the victor in terms of the war, not the battle. Madara's actions forced Minato to give up his life, this you must admit. You might say that Minato sacrificed himself to save the village, but he did it because Madara was too powerful otherwise. Although Madara's objective is not complete as of yet, back then his goal was to destroy Konoha; now it is to revive the Jubi, so which objective are you referring to?

Yes, you can't judge a person's strength simply by the amount of time they have lived, but for all the years Madara has been alive generations of ninja praised his power, Minato included. That clearly indicates Madara is a powerful ninja, one who is not to be taken lightly. Like I have said, Minato won the battle, but lost the war. If you think that everything went right for Minato that night, then you are severely mistaken. He could not protect his wife, he could not stop all the casualties during the attack, he could not stop the village from being damaged, he could not kill Madara, and the only way to stop the Nine-Tails was to have both Minato and Kushina die. I would say that Konoha lost more on that night than Madara. He lost the Nine-Tailed Fox, which is an annoyance, but he still kept his identity hidden and his plans weren't permanently ruined. Besides, what Madara lost can be retained; what Konoha lost cannot.

Both Minato and Madara won and lost sixteen years ago, but I think for the victory Minato had that night he paid a greater price. He was the Fourth Hokage, and thus responsible for everyone in the village. Only could he save the village by making his son the host of the Nine-Tails, growing up hated by just about everyone, and at the cost of his life and his wife's. Besides, if you've noticed, Madara does not seem to be affected at all by how things played out at the time of Naruto's birth. He still is continuing with his plans, and so far no one is doing anything to stop him. Soon they will be, however.

A pyrrhic victory, that is what Minato and the rest of the village experienced that night. Should such a thing happen again, Konoha will be destroyed as we know it.

 

[Joegonzo]

No, we have seen the extent of his power. We've seen Minato in action using his Flying Thunder God technique, the Summoning Technique, the Rasengan (against Madara, for example), a space-time barrier technique, a Contract Seal, and we've seen use various sealing techniques. Such was the extent of Minato's powers up until his death. If Minato were to live longer, he would have gone very far, but that in itself is an assumption - we cannot know for sure.

But one thing I don't agree with is your statement about the Moon's Eye Plan. You mean to tell me, that Madara, who has been said to "know everything," according to the Fifth Mizukage, is working towards a goal that has been a failure from the start? That seems extremely unlikely to me. Madara has an incredibly vast knowledge of his world - why wouldn't he know that Minato divided the fox's chakra into two, one part having sealed into Naruto, and the other with himself? You can't just write Madara off by saying "he doesn't know;" if he didn't, then the series is not that interesting anymore. That means all the manga readers, according to your logic, now know that Madara's plan will not suceed. What are we expecting then? It seems more than likely that Madara does know, and perhaps in a flashback of sort it will be revealed exactly how he has figured it out.

Can you provide proof that we have seen the full extent of Minato's powers?