[VS] Cracker>Doflamingo

[ToshiZO]

The difference between Pica and Cracker was Cracker showed us he can damage G4 Luffy easily. He almost went halfway through Luffy's arm with a regular swing of his sword.

Certainly his haki is easily above Doflamingo's. Pica was a one trick phony, who's haki and power paled in comparison to Zoro's once he got out of his "armour", Cracker gets out of his armour and nearly takes Luffy's arm off. Big difference.

Having said that, Crackers endurance and durability are in question right now, but overall he is looking more impressive than Doflamingo as of right now no doubt.

 

[MickNerks]

Defense and durability aren't the same. Cracker may have stronger haki and better defense but if his durability is significantly lower(as implied by that phrasing) then it would take fewer shots actually landing to put him down. And technically you are right I shouldn't have jumped the gun and assumed he'd have low durability from that statement, just because he hates pain doesn't make it a fact he'll get taken out easy, it just seems likely.

Doffy did as well as the armor form did. The cracker form broke after pretty much one hit from G4 Doffy took a bunch. Also the biscuit had Haki on it, it wasn't just cracker, we know there was Haki on it from Luffy contacting it before. G4 broke Crackers Haki Biscuit Armor. I agree he has shown to be able to do more damage to Luffy in G4 state but that doesn't mean he can win IF his durability is as low as implied. Also for possibly the 100th time(with no one able to refute or explain it) When did we start using ABC logic? Cracker can give Luffy a harder fight than Doffy did, fine but that does not automatically mean he could beat Doffy. How well an opponent did against Luffy isn't a fair indicator of who they could beat or else Foxy would be able to beat Enel.

You are right about the defense and durability not being the same. I only would assume that Cracker has high durability given that he has a giant burn mark on the right side of his face and (is still alive and has his sight) which I would assume that he recieved from battle (possibly the only other guy to see his real form) but at that point I am speculating.

I agree that Doffy definitely was a tank in his battle against G4 luffy, but in regards to actually strength I witnessed Cracker have way more on a even battle against luffy than Doffy did. Doffy vs G4 seemed more one sided in luffy's favor. Cracker on the other hand was able to injury G4 and his multiple Biscuits armor could possibly overwhelm G4 Luffy.

In response to your point about ABC logic, I completely agree that it shouldnt be used in the one piece world but in this case there is evidence to help justify it. When Doffy used his parasite technique on Luffy, his G4 was easily able to break out and at this point Crackers armour has shown camparable haki and strength to Luffy's G4 which we could use to confirm that Cracker might also be able to break parasite with ease. Also Doffy's Strongest Attack and Defense was overcome by Luffy's KKG (which might not be Luffy's strongest attack) and we also have yet to see Cracker's Strongest attack but from portrayal it should be enough to almost rival KKG. But this is also speculation as we havent (and probably wont) seen Luffy defeat Cracker.

I personally dont think it is without reason at this point to state that Cracker is stronger than Doflamingo. Thes last 2 chapters has given us more than enought to help make and justify the claim.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

@bold - this is a logical fallacy, I tried to prevent it from popping up because I knew someone would use it. Just because we saw Luffy break Cracker's biscuits in G4 doesn't mean G4 is required to break them. There's a big gap in power between Gear 3 and 4.

@bold 2- Doffy also has an unlimited number of clones available. Granted they wouldn't be as powerful as Crackers but saying Cracker has more versatility isn't a stretch it's plain wrong until we see more out of him.

@bold 3- Cut right through? Can you please stop speaking in hyperbole and exaggeration? He cut him, not right through him.

@bold 4- Luffy broke his armor with 1 Kong gun.

I agree with the clone thing doffy clones should have more advantage in outside area seeing as the clouds would provide more string and they should be able to fly/glide like doffy

But physically they should without a doubt be inferior to the crackers

I find cracker ability intresting but what I like most is that he can put his haki that strongly into his devil fruit something we've seen but none of the ppl we've seen do it (bar akainu) have done it so flawlessly

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

The difference between Pica and Cracker was Cracker showed us he can damage G4 Luffy easily. He almost went halfway through Luffy's arm with a regular swing of his sword.

Certainly his haki is easily above Doflamingo's. Pica was a one trick phony, who's haki and power paled in comparison to Zoro's once he got out of his "armour", Cracker gets out of his armour and nearly takes Luffy's arm off. Big difference.

Having said that, Crackers endurance and durability are in question right now, but overall he is looking more impressive than Doflamingo as of right now no doubt.

I agree with majority of what u said except the last sentence how can he be more impressive then doffy already when the fight has barely just started fine u feel myself and others hype doffy up but don't u think there's overhyping on every character that gets introduced that automatically gets compared to doffy etc

I really don't c how he is out performing doffy I really don't ... It took 2 gear 4ths (yes luffy used haki with bellemy but he also got rested wheras doffy didn't) and also gamma knife

Luffy and cracker have yet to have full blown fight sure he got clear shot on luffy via gear 4th but so did doffy with his awakened strings and then at the same time he even out moved gear 4th at one point

Am I saying doffy is stronger then cracker no not in any way but how can everyone just say well yeah he is uber outperforming doffy when the fight has barely lasted 10 minutes ..... ?

 

[OG sama]

Just read the chapter and let me tell you, Cracker is undoubtedly > Doflamingo.

I don't see how anyone can have read this chapter and got Doflamingo was stronger.

Doflamingo couldn't even hurt G4, all he could do was graze his skin with awakening which did cause blood but didn't have a noticeable affect on him.

Whereas this time Cracker nearly cut off G4s haki imbued arm like butter and Luffy was in noticeable pain. And did so with some no name slash.

Everybody talking about his durability/endurance but if his CoA offense is better than Mingos then so should his defense while defending with his CoA.

He say he doesn't like pain, but that only implies if your strong enough to bypass his CoA defense.

 

[OG sama]

He also is very versatile being able to hide behind an infinite amount of biscuit clones all stronger than G2/G3 Luffy. Even being better offensively than the clones were and most definitely much more durable as well.

If his CoA can harm G4 Luffy then just imagine his defense when using it. Should take more than what we saw on DR to bring his real body down.

 

[ToshiZO]

Just read the chapter and let me tell you, Cracker is undoubtedly > Doflamingo.

I don't see how anyone can have read this chapter and got Doflamingo was stronger.

Doflamingo couldn't even hurt G4, all he could do was graze his skin with awakening which did cause blood but didn't have a noticeable affect on him.

Whereas this time Cracker nearly cut off G4s haki imbued arm like butter and Luffy was in noticeable pain. And did so with some no name slash.

Everybody talking about his durability/endurance but if his CoA offense is better than Mingos then so should his defense while defending with his CoA.

He say he doesn't like pain, but that only implies if your strong enough to bypass his CoA defense.

Trust me G4 attacks are bypassing any CoA defense he puts up.

Haki is not the biggest factor, attack power/force >>>>> Haki when talking about importance. The only thing his CoA is gonna do is soften the blow by a certain % but he is definitely gonna be feeling the blow, he's probably gonna be lying on the floor.

Lets say Cracker loses to Luffy because Luffy manages to get around the puppets, and get to Crackers real body and KO's Cracker, yet Doflamingo can stall with his awakening, tank hits and outlast G4 ? what would you say then?

You would have Cracker who is superior in a lot of categories but unable to beat Luffy, but Doflamingo can.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Kizaru kicked Luffy a few times at Marineford and they hurt him. That would require Haki to be used.

Do you happen to remember the chaps. I'd like to re-read them? Were they only kicks or DF kicks? Also it is Luffy we're talking about he may have forgotten Kizaru. Kizaru may not have been as serious as Cracker and not putting his all in it. Someone putting Haki on their defense may put more than a different person does on their offense. Just because it was the strongest Luffy remembers(If that is the Viz translation) doesn't mean it's the strongest of the series, Luffy felt Garps Haki as well(unless we're chalking that up as comedic effect like Nami hurting Luffy) so just because someone has stronger Haki than Cracker and Luffy faced them doen't mean he's faced their peak levels.

 

[ToshiZO]

I love how you guys are still arguing about a mistranslation.

 

[Punk Hazard]

To add to Chopstick's post, I don't see how Cracker's DF is more versatile than Doflamingo's. Doflamingo can control people, fly, make clones, perform slicing attacks, create shields to defend, transform his environment, perform rudimentary first aid, destroy countries, and even sever bioeletrical communication signals. Cracker so far has shown just making shells and shields with his DF.

 

[ToshiZO]

I agree with majority of what u said except the last sentence how can he be more impressive then doffy already when the fight has barely just started fine u feel myself and others hype doffy up but don't u think there's overhyping on every character that gets introduced that automatically gets compared to doffy etc

I really don't c how he is out performing doffy I really don't ... It took 2 gear 4ths (yes luffy used haki with bellemy but he also got rested wheras doffy didn't) and also gamma knife

Luffy and cracker have yet to have full blown fight sure he got clear shot on luffy via gear 4th but so did doffy with his awakened strings and then at the same time he even out moved gear 4th at one point

Am I saying doffy is stronger then cracker no not in any way but how can everyone just say well yeah he is uber outperforming doffy when the fight has barely lasted 10 minutes ..... ?

Let me explain to you how he is outperforming Doflamingo.

1. His puppets forced Luffy to use G4. Doflamingo's puppets were fodder to G2.

2.In a casual no named attack he almost cut halfway through Luffy's arm, where Doflamingo even with awakening could only put minor cuts on Luffy.

3.His haki is greater than Doflamingo's.

So as of right now he is looking more impressive than Doflamingo as an overall fighter, Luffy has to use kong gun gatling just to dispose of his fodder soldiers.

So physically we all thought Cracker was stronger than Doffy, but then we gave Doflamingo the edge in tricks and versatility but it looks like Cracker isn't even the most physical fighter, he seems more like a puppeteer and yet his offense is so strong to the point he can severely damage G4 Luffy. There is no way I can give Doflamingo the edge when Cracker beats him in physical strength, and he is matching him in a way in versatility. The one thing Doflamingo had, turns out he didn't even really have an overwhelming edge > Cracker.

Only holding off final judgement because there is a possibility with fighting styles like this, its possible a couple hits on Crackers main body means lights out for Cracker.

 

[OG sama]

Trust me G4 attacks are bypassing any CoA defense he puts up.

Haki is not the biggest factor, attack power/force >>>>> Haki when talking about importance. The only thing his CoA is gonna do is soften the blow by a certain % but he is definitely gonna be feeling the blow, he's probably gonna be lying on the floor.

Lets say Cracker loses to Luffy because Luffy manages to get around the puppets, and get to Crackers real body and KO's Cracker, yet Doflamingo can stall with his awakening, tank hits and outlast G4 ? what would you say then?

You would have Cracker who is superior in a lot of categories but unable to beat Luffy, but Doflamingo can.

What? If Doflamingo can block G4 attacks with his CoA then why wouldn't Cracker?

Cracker is stronger than Doflamingo in every category except MAYBE but unlikely durability.

You think it makes sense for DD to be overall better when he may only be better in like one category than Cracker? Pathetic.

And Cracker has and still is stalling G4 with his biscuit clones, so what the **** even bringing that up for?

 

[Punk Hazard]

You guys do realize that "no-name attacks" is a fallacy, right? Whitebeard and Mihawk didn't name a single one of their attacks, does that mean they were using "basic weak" attacks? A sword swing is just as strong as whatever energy Cracker puts into it. If Cracker puts all his strength into a swing and says nothing, it's gonna be weaker than a swing with a name that he puts half of his strength into? Let's be serious here.

Doflamingo couldn't even hurt G4, all he could do was graze his skin with awakening which did cause blood but didn't have a noticeable affect on him.

This isn't necessarily true. The fact that Luffy purposefully avoided the Awakened Strings instead of just tanking through them implies the direct opposite: If they hit him, they'd damage him. Just grazing his body caused a lot of blood to pour out, implying just that graze got in deep. Cracker has definitely shown greater physical strength, but it's not absolute that his offensive power was greater.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Why not?



Are we really ready to say Cracker's Haki is better than Kizaru's or Rayleigh's?

When has Doffy ever used Parasite on a nonorganic thing?

 

[Punk Hazard]

When has Doffy ever used Parasite on a nonorganic thing?

Why wouldn't he be able to? Parasite just works by tying the strings around something and manipulating them to move it like a puppet. You're telling me Doflamingo wouldn't be able to do that to a lifeless object? That makes no sense.

 

[ToshiZO]

What? If Doflamingo can block G4 attacks with his CoA then why wouldn't Cracker?

Cracker is stronger than Doflamingo in every category except MAYBE but unlikely durability.

You think it makes sense for DD to be overall better when he may only be better in like one category than Cracker? Pathetic.

And Cracker has and still is stalling G4 with his biscuit clones, so what the **** even bringing that up for?

What? The hell you talking about? Doflamingo can put any haki on him he wants, if Luffy lands a clean blow (I hope you know what a clean blow is, no blocking with arms and legs etc.) Doflamingo gets (and was getting) pummeled. Haki is only lessening the blow, it's not doing shit in terms of completely stopping the blow. Cracker is going to be ragdolled if he is hit with a G4 attack directly you best believe that, not even Gol D Roger level Haki is gonna save him, you people seriously need to stop giving all the credit to haki, haki is still secondary to attack power. And it always will be.

 

[chopstickchakra]

You are right about the defense and durability not being the same. I only would assume that Cracker has high durability given that he has a giant burn mark on the right side of his face and (is still alive and has his sight) which I would assume that he recieved from battle (possibly the only other guy to see his real form) but at that point I am speculating.

I agree that Doffy definitely was a tank in his battle against G4 luffy, but in regards to actually strength I witnessed Cracker have way more on a even battle against luffy than Doffy did. Doffy vs G4 seemed more one sided in luffy's favor. Cracker on the other hand was able to injury G4 and his multiple Biscuits armor could possibly overwhelm G4 Luffy.

In response to your point about ABC logic, I completely agree that it shouldnt be used in the one piece world but in this case there is evidence to help justify it. When Doffy used his parasite technique on Luffy, his G4 was easily able to break out and at this point Crackers armour has shown camparable haki and strength to Luffy's G4 which we could use to confirm that Cracker might also be able to break parasite with ease. Also Doffy's Strongest Attack and Defense was overcome by Luffy's KKG (which might not be Luffy's strongest attack) and we also have yet to see Cracker's Strongest attack but from portrayal it should be enough to almost rival KKG. But this is also speculation as we havent (and probably wont) seen Luffy defeat Cracker.

I personally dont think it is without reason at this point to state that Cracker is stronger than Doflamingo. Thes last 2 chapters has given us more than enought to help make and justify the claim.

Sabo also has a giant burn mark and his eye sight and he got his scar when he was a pre-teen. Cracker said he hates pain and based on his armor and his haki I'd say it's less likely he goes into a rampage when hurt and more likely he has low tolerance for pain.

We still don't really know how breaking out of Parasite works. It could be physical strength, it could have been because of the rapid change in size for Luffy, it could be(the one I think) connected to will power. Why I doubt it's physical strength based, if it is then that means DR Luffy>MF Jozu.

I have no problem with that being the case if it is, I just am not convinced 100% that's the case since Jozu still fared ok against an Admiral at MF. Why I think it's will power based is 2 things, the person we saw break out has king's haki and the strongest will in the manga; secondly Parasite seemingly infiltrates the body and let's Doffy control their actions to do whatever his will desires. It seems Parasite makes the affected disregard their will in favor of Doffy's and the only way out is to have a higher willpower than the caster(Doffy). Just my opinion on how Parasite works, if it's shown that's absolutely not possibly the case please let me know.

Also wasn't Doffy able to parasite through Jozu's diamond? Chances are as impressive as Cracker is, diamond is still stronger than his haki biscuits. Anyway what I do know is this "new" attack would have ended Doffy no problem and Cracker too if it hit, Kong Organ(Kong Gatling) is monstrous.

I agree with the clone thing doffy clones should have more advantage in outside area seeing as the clouds would provide more string and they should be able to fly/glide like doffy

But physically they should without a doubt be inferior to the crackers

I find cracker ability intresting but what I like most is that he can put his haki that strongly into his devil fruit something we've seen but none of the ppl we've seen do it (bar akainu) have done it so flawlessly

Cracker's clones are definitely stronger than Doffy's clones.

Just read the chapter and let me tell you, Cracker is undoubtedly > Doflamingo.

I don't see how anyone can have read this chapter and got Doflamingo was stronger.

Doflamingo couldn't even hurt G4, all he could do was graze his skin with awakening which did cause blood but didn't have a noticeable affect on him.

Whereas this time Cracker nearly cut off G4s haki imbued arm like butter and Luffy was in noticeable pain. And did so with some no name slash.

Everybody talking about his durability/endurance but if his CoA offense is better than Mingos then so should his defense while defending with his CoA.

He say he doesn't like pain, but that only implies if your strong enough to bypass his CoA defense.

He didn't nearly cut his arm off, and you guys talk about over hyping. He cut his arm, yes it's an impressive feat but he didn't "nearly cut his arm off" or cut "halfway through his arm" He gave him a decent cut that's it, stop trying to gas it up more than it was.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Why wouldn't he be able to? Parasite just works by tying the strings around something and manipulating them to move it like a puppet. You're telling me Doflamingo wouldn't be able to do that to a lifeless object? That makes no sense.

Parasite works by attaching itself to the nerves. Biscuits don't have nerves.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Parasite works by attaching itself to the nerves. Biscuits don't have nerves.

There is zero proof of this.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I love how you guys are still arguing about a mistranslation.

Can you prove it was a mistranslation? Do you have the official translation somewhere? I've yet to see any other translation, that's why I ask.

To add to Chopstick's post, I don't see how Cracker's DF is more versatile than Doflamingo's. Doflamingo can control people, fly, make clones, perform slicing attacks, create shields to defend, transform his environment, perform rudimentary first aid, destroy countries, and even sever bioeletrical communication signals. Cracker so far has shown just making shells and shields with his DF.

I don't people understand what versatility means. Cracker's shown one way he uses his fruit "OMG he's so versatile" meanwhile Doffy had almost as many named attacks as Luffy. Idk if there's another character, protagonist or antagonist with more moves in their bat belt than Doffy.