Turkey coup

[paratise]

I heard of it. It seemed that the coup was organized by the highest exponents of the military, as the ambassades of Turkey all over the world received, half an hour before the coup, a letter which said that the military was going to take control of the country.

Since the coup was supported by Islamic radicals, many blamed a preacher named Fetullah Gulen, who lives now in the US. However, Gulen condemned the coup as well

The coup's script heavily emphasized on secularizm, govt's betrayal and values of Atatürk it was not portrayted as radical Islam at all. Gulen on the other hand, when he was at Erdogan's side their level of radicalism was more or less on the same level (not as much as now, back then). Since Erdogan shoved him away as "parallel structure in country that betrayed" him and his people seem less radical zince they want to appeal to other bodies of opposition which are secular.

Compared to what they tried to tackle, coup was not made by radicals whomever they may be.
Still, i believe in staged coup theory.

Turkey's political and social systems have two problems: Islamist ideology and regressive liberalism (regressive cocks). The Islamists want to implement Sharia and regressive liberals want to implement Marxist laws. The coup is to maintain the Turkish secular constitution. Turkey's history of secularism was a complete failure. There were religious discrimination toward Muslims, and the ban on freedom of clothing. It gotten economically successful thanks to Erdogan's rule from 2003 to 2014, where Turkey's GDP from $300 billion (2003) to $800 billion GDP in 2014, but that came with government corruption and media censorship. The Islamists and regressive seculars/liberals are both as bad as each other.

My holiday to Turkey is cancelled now.

Regressive liberals were actually the ones who were fawning over religious freedom and saying how horrible secularism implemented in the country. Many leftists saw how regressive that was actually, leftism/Marxism does not strictly portray a political group there are other factors.

I will say, what is the solution? What is the solution to ISIS level religious bigots who were everywhere and their early 20th century while at that? Islam, no matter how you look is a series of laws implemented in 7th century people from a very different geography and culture. Muslims should keep their religious ideals in very personal spaces. Religion should be kept away from state. It should not hinder non-religious people's lives.

Adapting into modern life is not dicrimination, Alevis, Jews, Christians, atheists or any non-believer and non-Sunni Muslim group suffered much more than Sunni Muslims at any rate. Them suffering from discrimination is laughable at best while they are historicly most dominating sect of a religion.

And when came into rule, this happens. They cut throats on streets.
Forget Turkey, were they discriminated in Saudi arabia, what is the excuse for violence there?
That is Islamofascism and there should be zero tolerance, understanding, reasoning towards them since they do not have any.

 

[Edogawa]

Regressive liberals were actually the ones who were fawning over religious freedom and saying how horrible secularism implemented in the country. Many leftists saw how regressive that was actually, leftism/Marxism does not strictly portray a political group there are other factors.

It's good they regret the mistakes the ideology made.

I will say, what is the solution? What is the solution to ISIS level religious bigots who were everywhere and their early 20th century while at that? Islam, no matter how you look is a series of laws implemented in 7th century people from a very different geography and culture. Muslims should keep their religious ideals in very personal spaces. Religion should be kept away from state. It should not hinder non-religious people's lives.

I agree with your premise. The solution to deal with religious extremism is same as how Europe dealt with Christianity. Islamic extremism needs reforms to fit with modern life, but because such religious culture has been part of Turkey for centuries, it will take a long time to achieve such thing.

Adapting into modern life is not dicrimination, Alevis, Jews, Christians, atheists or any non-believer and non-Sunni Muslim group suffered much more than Sunni Muslims at any rate. Them suffering from discrimination is laughable at best while they are historicly most dominating sect of a religion.

And when came into rule, this happens. They cut throats on streets.
Forget Turkey, were they discriminated in Saudi arabia, what is the excuse for violence there?
That is Islamofascism and there should be zero tolerance, understanding, reasoning towards them since they do not have any

I agree here too.

 

[Mori Jin]

You literally posted that hours ago :/

OT: Many people died. About 90, and there are like 1500 arrests.
They told execution might be an option. Execution is illegal for about 15 years here...

The worst part is people who believed this was a 100% real coup went out and resisted military forces because Erdogan told them to do so. It is forbidden to go out during a coup.

Yet these men (they were all men) with their beards and allahuakbar chants went out and held down soldiers, help police arrest them, beat and killed the soldiers, climbed on tanks. Hundreds of thousands did that. That is the most scary thing i can witness, because even at its worst we have a phrase "every Turk is born a soldier". Not Muslim, a soldier. It is not a sentiment i can get fully behind of but it puts being a part of that profession above many things. Annd these men who went out are the ones who say those words most.

Yet Erdogan's words were about it. He was above what people born as. These men went out and cut throats of people that they say they support till the end.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is Islamofascism. That is what starts this terror, you do not get terror without having a mass of people supporting you; this was the case in IRA, Hizbullah, Hamas, ETA, PKK and certainly is in ISIS.

That is what founders of that country trying to eliminate. You want to cry about banning the veil or hanging religious zealots during republician era? Boo hoo again.

OH really? Big deal. The people there wanted him (erdogan) and that's why they came outside to help stop. You're saying it's forbidden to go outside during a coup? Well it's also illegal to actually do a coup as well. Plus it wasn't even the whole military who were behind this nonsense, it was a small faction and they did this when the president was on vacation. This always happens to Muslim countries when things are going good for them. Well I hope they execute these idiots because what they did is treason. Erdogan was elected by the people so call it what you like. islamofasicm? Don't care that's just how you see things.

 

[Mori Jin]

Damn, "Erdogone" didn't happen.

It's sad that so many lives were lost last night, but Erdogan needs to vanish. I hope there will be a more peaceful way to achieve that in the future.

He ain't leaving because the people there don't want him gone. Always hear different things being said about. What's your problem with him?

 

[Wabbit]

You literally posted that hours ago :/

OT: Many people died. About 90, and there are like 1500 arrests.
They told execution might be an option. Execution is illegal for about 15 years here...

The worst part is people who believed this was a 100% real coup went out and resisted military forces because Erdogan told them to do so. It is forbidden to go out during a coup.

Yet these men (they were all men) with their beards and allahuakbar chants went out and held down soldiers, help police arrest them, beat and killed the soldiers, climbed on tanks. Hundreds of thousands did that. That is the most scary thing i can witness, because even at its worst we have a phrase "every Turk is born a soldier". Not Muslim, a soldier. It is not a sentiment i can get fully behind of but it puts being a part of that profession above many things. Annd these men who went out are the ones who say those words most.

Yet Erdogan's words were about it. He was above what people born as. These men went out and cut throats of people that they say they support till the end.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is Islamofascism. That is what starts this terror, you do not get terror without having a mass of people supporting you; this was the case in IRA, Hizbullah, Hamas, ETA, PKK and certainly is in ISIS.

That is what founders of that country trying to eliminate. You want to cry about banning the veil or hanging religious zealots during republician era? Boo hoo again.

People dont know about Islamofascism t. From the outside Erdogan is the elected leader everybody is supporting him and the military is attacking elected government. It looks as people liked him and he was a great leader and people poured out in the streets to take back their country to support him.
The coup only created situation for Erdogan to purge any one who dislike him.

I wonder if it is still a democracy without secularism if people will it to be. There is lot of people in my country who don't want it.

 

[Mori Jin]

The coup's script heavily emphasized on secularizm, govt's betrayal and values of Atatürk it was not portrayted as radical Islam at all. Gulen on the other hand, when he was at Erdogan's side their level of radicalism was more or less on the same level (not as much as now, back then). Since Erdogan shoved him away as "parallel structure in country that betrayed" him and his people seem less radical zince they want to appeal to other bodies of opposition which are secular.

Compared to what they tried to tackle, coup was not made by radicals whomever they may be.
Still, i believe in staged coup theory.



Regressive liberals were actually the ones who were fawning over religious freedom and saying how horrible secularism implemented in the country. Many leftists saw how regressive that was actually, leftism/Marxism does not strictly portray a political group there are other factors.

I will say, what is the solution? What is the solution to ISIS level religious bigots who were everywhere and their early 20th century while at that? Islam, no matter how you look is a series of laws implemented in 7th century people from a very different geography and culture. Muslims should keep their religious ideals in very personal spaces. Religion should be kept away from state. It should not hinder non-religious people's lives.

Adapting into modern life is not dicrimination, Alevis, Jews, Christians, atheists or any non-believer and non-Sunni Muslim group suffered much more than Sunni Muslims at any rate. Them suffering from discrimination is laughable at best while they are historicly most dominating sect of a religion.

And when came into rule, this happens. They cut throats on streets.
Forget Turkey, were they discriminated in Saudi arabia, what is the excuse for violence there?
That is Islamofascism and there should be zero tolerance, understanding, reasoning towards them since they do not have any.

What happens in Turkey stays in Turkey. It's a Muslim country and you don't want them practising the religion? They were practising the religion long before you were born and long after you're dead. Plus were did you get the nonsense about non-Muslims suffering about more then Muslims. Check a history book.

 

[paratise]

OH really? Big deal. The people there wanted him (erdogan) and that's why they came outside to help stop. You're saying it's forbidden to go outside during a coup? Well it's also illegal to actually do a coup as well. Plus it wasn't even the whole military who were behind this nonsense, it was a small faction and they did this when the president was on vacation. This always happens to Muslim countries when things are going good for them. Well I hope they execute these idiots because what they did is treason. Erdogan was elected by the people so call it what you like. islamofasicm? Don't care that's just how you see things.

Who the hell are you and if you do not care why are you keep replying?

Constitution states that this is a republic and is a secular one:

PART ONE General Principles

I. Form of the State ARTICLE

1- The State of Turkey is a Republic.

II. Characteristics of the Republic ARTICLE

2- The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by rule of law, within the notions of public peace, national solidarity and justice, respecting human rights, loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the preamble.

III. Integrity, official language, flag, national anthem, and capital of the State ARTICLE

3- The State of Turkey, with its territory and nation, is an indivisible entity. Its language is Turkish. Its flag, the form of which is prescribed by the relevant law, is composed of a white crescent and star on a red background. Its national anthem is the “Independence March”. Its capital is Ankara. IV. Irrevocable provisions

ARTICLE 4- The provision of Article 1 regarding the form of the State being a Republic, the characteristics of the Republic in Article 2, and the provisions of Article 3 shall not be amended, nor shall their amendment be proposed.

These are not changed and can not be changed.

Not to mention other constitutional laws like not provoking public to hatred & violence, president remaining objective which Erdogan broke along with many things.

Idgaf how many people elected him (by rigging election and bribing people, if you call that democratic) he is not a democratic leader. Majority (not even majority btw, like half of adults) can not suppress minority. Hitler was elected. Trump might be elected. Bush was elected. How "democratic" they sound?

This country is NOT going good. What made you state that?
Economy is going downhil ethnic tension is peak level same as religious tension, we are having the worst international relations of modern history, never we had this much terrorist attacks how it is going good?

Idk you but i am taking you are a non-Turkish person who inserts ummah fantasies to our country. Or a petty liberal. Bugger off.

People dont know about Islamofascism t. From the outside Erdogan is the elected leader everybody is supporting him and the military is attacking elected government. It looks as people liked him and he was a great leader and people poured out in the streets to take back their country to support him.
The coup only created situation for Erdogan to purge any one who dislike him.

I wonder if it is still a democracy without secularism if people will it to be. There is lot of people in my country who don't want it.

"People want him so they went to streets" arguement is pissy af. Because it was a coup and it is forbidden to go out ao people like me stayed in. People who went out are Islamofascist electors of Erdogan to begin with. People who do not want him were inclined to not go out to begin with. Besides "many people support him" means jack. Theyr are too much "many people" in the country it has million people ffs. Hundreds of thousands do not reflect everyone's will.

The only people who pull that arguement are radicals Muslims and Western liberals. This should tell something.

A dominat groups suppressing others is not a proper case for human rights. So it is not democracy i think. People's decisions can kiss my arse if they are dumb and regressive. It is 2k16 there should not be existantial questions about allowing a pile of dumbass to have power or not.

What happens in Turkey stays in Turkey. It's a Muslim country and you don't want them practising the religion? They were practising the religion long before you were born and long after you're dead. Plus were did you get the nonsense about non-Muslims suffering about more then Muslims. Check a history book.

I am Turkish and live in Turkey you imbecile i know my history more than a vahhabi turd. What did Muslims suffered here for being Sunni Muslims, more than other religious or non-believer groups? Do tell me.

If /history/ as a case Anatolia was majority Christian, and Pagan long before Islam came. In fact there is over 8000 years of human history here and only 1000 years had Islam, and it was only partly. Turks were originally Shaman before forcibly converted to Islam by religion of peace. There are and had been many Jewish, Christian, Alevi, atheist Turks.

People can **** off the any Sharia state they want like the vahhabi lickers they are.
This is secular Republic of Turkey.

 

[Avani]

People dont know about Islamofascism.

Hmm I had noticed the nature to be similar but I didn't know

You must be registered for see links

either like most of them.

Who the hell are you and if you do not care why are you keep replying?

Constitution states that this is a republic and is a secular one:



These are not changed and can not be changed.

Not to mention other constitutional laws like not provoking public to hatred & violence, president remaining objective which Erdogan broke along withmany things.

Idgaf how many people elected him (by rigging electioan and bribing people, if you call that democratic) he is not a democratic leader. Majority (not even majority btw, like half of adults) can not suppress minority. Hitler was elected. Trump might be elected. Bush was elected. How "democratic" they sound?

This country is NOT going good. What made you state that?
Economy is going downhil ethnic tension is peak level same as religious tension, we are having the worst international relations of modern history, never we had this much terrorist attacks how it is going good?

Idk you but i am taking you are a non-Turkish person who inserts ummah fantasies to our country. Or a petty liberal. Bugger off.

"People want him so they went to streets" arguement is pissy af. Because it was a coup and it is forbidden to go out ao people like me stayed in. People who went out are Islamofascist electors of Erdogan to begin with. People who do not want him were inclined to not go out to begin with. Besides "many people support him" means jack. Theyr are too much "many people" in the country it has million people ffs. Hundreds of thousands do not reflect everyone's will.

The only people fo pull that arguement are radicals Muslims and Western liberals. This should tell something.

A dominat groups suppressing others is not a proper case for human rights. So it is not democracy i think. People's decisions can kiss my arse if they are dumb and regressive. It is 2k16 there should not be existantial questions about allowing a pile of dumbass to have power or not.



I am Turkish and live in Turkey you imbecile i know my history more than a vahhabi turd. What did Muslims suffered here for being Sunni Muslims, more than other religious or non-believer groups? Do tell me.

If /history/ as a case Anatoli was majority Christian, and Pagan long before Islam came. In fact there is over 8000 years of human history here and only 1000 years had Islam, and it was only partly. Turks were originally Shaman before forcibly converted to Islam by religion of peace. There are and had been many Jewish, Christian, Alevi, atheist Turks.

People can **** off the any Sharia state they like the vahhabi lickers they are.
This is secular Republic of Turkey.

How you are describing the whole incident it seems like a master political more on part of Erdogan. Whether pre-planned or unintentional, he has the upper hand for now. There seem to be many supporters of this theory.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

 

[Narushima]

OH really? Big deal. The people there wanted him (erdogan) and that's why they came outside to help stop. You're saying it's forbidden to go outside during a coup? Well it's also illegal to actually do a coup as well. Plus it wasn't even the whole military who were behind this nonsense, it was a small faction and they did this when the president was on vacation. This always happens to Muslim countries when things are going good for them. Well I hope they execute these idiots because what they did is treason. Erdogan was elected by the people so call it what you like. islamofasicm? Don't care that's just how you see things.

What happens in Turkey stays in Turkey. It's a Muslim country and you don't want them practising the religion? They were practising the religion long before you were born and long after you're dead. Plus were did you get the nonsense about non-Muslims suffering about more then Muslims. Check a history book.

Mori Jin given your cluelessness, telling other people to 'check a book' is a very ironic thing indeed.

And given your Islamist leanings, tell me - what do you make of Erdogan's recent endeavors to reconcile with Israel:

You must be registered for see links

"At their meeting in Jerusalem Wednesday, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is interested in concluding a reconciliation agreement with Israel as soon as possible and to put an end to the crisis between Jerusalem and Ankara."

Your home-boy Erdogan may use Islamism to win the support of your mindless Islamic automaton friends in Turkey but it seems that when it comes to the important things - ego is far more important to him than Islam. The Iranians are at least principled people - they stick to their Shia Islam no matter what.

And whatever his role in the Turkish economy (correlation is not causation as we say in science so the onus is on you to corroborate that argument), his policy of dealing with the outside world has been George Bush levels of retarded even with respect to the rest of the Muslim world and may ultimately undo the little economic gains Turkey has made:

You must be registered for see links

"The Presidency of Erdogan has been nothing short of cataclysmic for Turkey which resulted in a perfect storm of crises, each of the very serious:

1) Crisis in Syria: the Turkish policy of support for Daesh to overthrow Assad has failed. Abjectly so. Not only is Assad still in power, but the latest bombing in Turkey seem to indicated that Daesh is turning against Turkey now (assuming the official explanations is true, which it might not be as we will discuss below). The entire Syria policy of Erdogan is now in shambles.

...

5) Crisis with Iran: by supporting Daesh, by trying to sabotage the “Islamic pipeline” and by trying to overthrow Assad, Turkey has completely alienated Tehran.

6) Crisis with the Kurds: by engaging in an even more brutal level of anti-Kurdish violence the Turks have basically re-ignited a full scale civil war and the Kurds are showing no signs of getting weaker. In fact, they are currently more powerful than ever, courtesy of the US invasion of Iraq.

...

8) Crisis with Russia: the downing of the SU-24 did not result in the expected Russian military response, but resulted in 7 months of crippling economic sanctions by Russia and an enormous loss of prestige by Turkey. More about this later.

So, this can be all summed up by saying that Turkey under Erdogan has shown a truly Ukrainian-level of incompetence, arrogance and delusion.

...

Genocide, besides the actual physical destruction of the members of the target group, aims also to erase all traces of the target group’s identity, through forced assimilation. In the Armenian case, it was mainly women and children who were forced to convert to Islam, adopting Turkish or Kurdish names and thus lost their Armenian identity over time. Another measure of the genocidal process is deleting all traces of the population who have been massacred or driven away by such deportations. This includes destruction of all buildings and monuments while renaming all the names of villages, towns, rivers, and other things that can attest to the presence of Armenians in the area. In 1914, the Armenian Patriarch of Constantinople presented a list of Armenian sacred places that were under his supervision. The list contained 2,549 religious sites of which 200 were monasteries while 1,600 were churches. A survey in 1974 showed that only 916 Armenian churches could be identified within Turkey’s borders, half of which were almost completely destroyed and among the rest only ruins of 252 items remained. The authorities have also renamed almost all villages, towns, mountains, and rivers in Armenia and changed their historical Armenian name to Turkish ones. This policy continues even in our days when, for example, the Turkish Interior Ministry announced in 2005 that it would rename certain animal Latin names since they had “separatist tendencies”. Armeniana Ovis (sheep) would be renamed Ovis orientalis Anatolicus, while Capreolus Capreolus Armenus (deer) would be called Capreolus Capreolus capreolus. Even Vulpes Vulpes Kurdistanica (red fox) was to be renamed Vulpes Vulpes. The proposal was rejected by UNESCO, the UN agency in charge of these data, referring to the unfounded the Turkish reasons for the changes."

One can indeed write volumes on the Ottoman empire's religio-genocidal and Islamo-fascist treatment of everyone aside from Sunni Muslims - and indeed such books do exist. The Saker article I quoted talks about the Armenian genocide, in particular.

 

[Mori Jin]

Spoiler

Who the hell are you and if you do not care why are you keep replying?

Constitution states that this is a republic and is a secular one:



These are not changed and can not be changed.

Not to mention other constitutional laws like not provoking public to hatred & violence, president remaining objective which Erdogan broke along with many things.

Idgaf how many people elected him (by rigging election and bribing people, if you call that democratic) he is not a democratic leader. Majority (not even majority btw, like half of adults) can not suppress minority. Hitler was elected. Trump might be elected. Bush was elected. How "democratic" they sound?

This country is NOT going good. What made you state that?
Economy is going downhil ethnic tension is peak level same as religious tension, we are having the worst international relations of modern history, never we had this much terrorist attacks how it is going good?

Idk you but i am taking you are a non-Turkish person who inserts ummah fantasies to our country. Or a petty liberal. Bugger off.

"People want him so they went to streets" arguement is pissy af. Because it was a coup and it is forbidden to go out ao people like me stayed in. People who went out are Islamofascist electors of Erdogan to begin with. People who do not want him were inclined to not go out to begin with. Besides "many people support him" means jack. Theyr are too much "many people" in the country it has million people ffs. Hundreds of thousands do not reflect everyone's will.

The only people who pull that arguement are radicals Muslims and Western liberals. This should tell something.

A dominat groups suppressing others is not a proper case for human rights. So it is not democracy i think. People's decisions can kiss my arse if they are dumb and regressive. It is 2k16 there should not be existantial questions about allowing a pile of dumbass to have power or not.



I am Turkish and live in Turkey you imbecile i know my history more than a vahhabi turd. What did Muslims suffered here for being Sunni Muslims, more than other religious or non-believer groups? Do tell me.

If /history/ as a case Anatolia was majority Christian, and Pagan long before Islam came. In fact there is over 8000 years of human history here and only 1000 years had Islam, and it was only partly. Turks were originally Shaman before forcibly converted to Islam by religion of peace. There are and had been many Jewish, Christian, Alevi, atheist Turks.

People can **** off the any Sharia state they like the vahhabi lickers they are.
This is secular Republic of Turkey.

You don't need to know who i am, and stop quoting me then.

It's an illegal coup and they failed, hopefully erdogan gets rid of the people who'd stab him in the back for extra coins in their back pockets

Spoiler

Mori Jin given your cluelessness, telling other people to 'check a book' is a very ironic thing indeed.

And given your Islamist leanings, tell me - what do you make of Erdogan's recent endeavors to reconcile with Israel:

You must be registered for see links

"At their meeting in Jerusalem Wednesday, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is interested in concluding a reconciliation agreement with Israel as soon as possible and to put an end to the crisis between Jerusalem and Ankara."

Your home-boy Erdogan may use Islamism to win the support of your mindless Islamic automaton friends in Turkey but it seems that when it comes to the important things - ego is far more important to him than Islam. The Iranians are at least principled people - they stick to their Shia Islam no matter what.

And whatever his role in the Turkish economy (correlation is not causation as we say in science so the onus is on you to corroborate that argument), his policy of dealing with the outside world has been George Bush levels of retarded even with respect to the rest of the Muslim world and may ultimately undo the little economic gains Turkey has made:

You must be registered for see links

"The Presidency of Erdogan has been nothing short of cataclysmic for Turkey which resulted in a perfect storm of crises, each of the very serious:

1) Crisis in Syria: the Turkish policy of support for Daesh to overthrow Assad has failed. Abjectly so. Not only is Assad still in power, but the latest bombing in Turkey seem to indicated that Daesh is turning against Turkey now (assuming the official explanations is true, which it might not be as we will discuss below). The entire Syria policy of Erdogan is now in shambles.

...

5) Crisis with Iran: by supporting Daesh, by trying to sabotage the “Islamic pipeline” and by trying to overthrow Assad, Turkey has completely alienated Tehran.

6) Crisis with the Kurds: by engaging in an even more brutal level of anti-Kurdish violence the Turks have basically re-ignited a full scale civil war and the Kurds are showing no signs of getting weaker. In fact, they are currently more powerful than ever, courtesy of the US invasion of Iraq.

...

8) Crisis with Russia: the downing of the SU-24 did not result in the expected Russian military response, but resulted in 7 months of crippling economic sanctions by Russia and an enormous loss of prestige by Turkey. More about this later.

So, this can be all summed up by saying that Turkey under Erdogan has shown a truly Ukrainian-level of incompetence, arrogance and delusion.

...

Genocide, besides the actual physical destruction of the members of the target group, aims also to erase all traces of the target group’s identity, through forced assimilation. In the Armenian case, it was mainly women and children who were forced to convert to Islam, adopting Turkish or Kurdish names and thus lost their Armenian identity over time. Another measure of the genocidal process is deleting all traces of the population who have been massacred or driven away by such deportations. This includes destruction of all buildings and monuments while renaming all the names of villages, towns, rivers, and other things that can attest to the presence of Armenians in the area. In 1914, the Armenian Patriarch of Constantinople presented a list of Armenian sacred places that were under his supervision. The list contained 2,549 religious sites of which 200 were monasteries while 1,600 were churches. A survey in 1974 showed that only 916 Armenian churches could be identified within Turkey’s borders, half of which were almost completely destroyed and among the rest only ruins of 252 items remained. The authorities have also renamed almost all villages, towns, mountains, and rivers in Armenia and changed their historical Armenian name to Turkish ones. This policy continues even in our days when, for example, the Turkish Interior Ministry announced in 2005 that it would rename certain animal Latin names since they had “separatist tendencies”. Armeniana Ovis (sheep) would be renamed Ovis orientalis Anatolicus, while Capreolus Capreolus Armenus (deer) would be called Capreolus Capreolus capreolus. Even Vulpes Vulpes Kurdistanica (red fox) was to be renamed Vulpes Vulpes. The proposal was rejected by UNESCO, the UN agency in charge of these data, referring to the unfounded the Turkish reasons for the changes."

One can indeed write volumes on the Ottoman empire's religio-genocidal and Islamo-fascist treatment of everyone aside from Sunni Muslims - and indeed such books do exist. The Saker article I quoted talks about the Armenian genocide, in particular.

*No point replying.quoting this ain't going to be replying back*

Don't care for turkish history, as i ain't turkish. What the president does with other presidents is his problem. Ottoman empire is not even here in the present so why dig up the past? Plus don't really care what you think of the president and i'm pretty sure he doesn't either. The Turkish people (or the majority of them) didn't want the coup that's why they came out in their thousands and the traitors failed.

Spoiler

Who the hell are you and if you do not care why are you keep replying?

Constitution states that this is a republic and is a secular one:



These are not changed and can not be changed.

Not to mention other constitutional laws like not provoking public to hatred & violence, president remaining objective which Erdogan broke along with many things.

Idgaf how many people elected him (by rigging election and bribing people, if you call that democratic) he is not a democratic leader. Majority (not even majority btw, like half of adults) can not suppress minority. Hitler was elected. Trump might be elected. Bush was elected. How "democratic" they sound?

This country is NOT going good. What made you state that?
Economy is going downhil ethnic tension is peak level same as religious tension, we are having the worst international relations of modern history, never we had this much terrorist attacks how it is going good?

Idk you but i am taking you are a non-Turkish person who inserts ummah fantasies to our country. Or a petty liberal. Bugger off.

"People want him so they went to streets" arguement is pissy af. Because it was a coup and it is forbidden to go out ao people like me stayed in. People who went out are Islamofascist electors of Erdogan to begin with. People who do not want him were inclined to not go out to begin with. Besides "many people support him" means jack. Theyr are too much "many people" in the country it has million people ffs. Hundreds of thousands do not reflect everyone's will.

The only people who pull that arguement are radicals Muslims and Western liberals. This should tell something.

A dominat groups suppressing others is not a proper case for human rights. So it is not democracy i think. People's decisions can kiss my arse if they are dumb and regressive. It is 2k16 there should not be existantial questions about allowing a pile of dumbass to have power or not.



I am Turkish and live in Turkey you imbecile i know my history more than a vahhabi turd. What did Muslims suffered here for being Sunni Muslims, more than other religious or non-believer groups? Do tell me.

If /history/ as a case Anatolia was majority Christian, and Pagan long before Islam came. In fact there is over 8000 years of human history here and only 1000 years had Islam, and it was only partly. Turks were originally Shaman before forcibly converted to Islam by religion of peace. There are and had been many Jewish, Christian, Alevi, atheist Turks.

People can **** off the any Sharia state they want like the vahhabi lickers they are.
This is secular Republic of Turkey.

This is secular Republic of Turkey

Tell that to Erdogan, guess you were one of the supporters of the coup? Well, guess what? It failed and hopefully the people behind it get executed. Good luck with the tantrums it ain't going to help you MR. This is secular Republic of Turkey.

 

[paratise]

Hmm I had noticed the nature to be similar but I didn't know

You must be registered for see links

either like most of them.



How you are describing the whole incident it seems like a master political more on part of Erdogan. Whether pre-planned or unintentional, he has the upper hand for now. There seem to be many supporters of this theory.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

I believe it was either staged, or purposefully happened on their watch to gain more power.

But what these articles miss is nature of a coup. Soldiers do not storm on streets to have a fighting stance, they get the president, PM, parliment members etc then they declare this. It is not as simple as blocking bridge and taking over some channels. Erdogan would not be in a situation to facetime if there was indeed a coup with serious intentions to take over. Coup without arresting him is basicly waving a red flag yellin " look what are we doing come get us!"

 

[Avani]

I believe it was either staged, or purposefully happened on their watch to gain more power.

But what these articles miss is nature of a coup. Soldiers do not storm on streets to have a fighting stance, they get the president, PM, parliment members etc then they declare this. It is not as simple as blocking bridge and taking over some channels. Erdogan would not be in a situation to facetime if there was indeed a coup with serious intentions to take over. Coup without arresting him is basicly waving a red flag yellin " look what are we doing come get us!"

The first link did mention it looked amateurish... But yea...it's hard to understand what's going on from outside when one is relying only on the news and may not know local conditions and exactly how things developed.

You don't need to know who i am, and stop quoting me then.

It's an illegal coup and they failed, hopefully erdogan gets rid of the people who'd stab him in the back for extra coins in their back pockets



*No point replying.quoting this ain't going to be replying back*

Don't care for turkish history, as i ain't turkish. What the president does with other presidents is his problem. Ottoman empire is not even here in the present so why dig up the past? Plus don't really care what you think of the president and i'm pretty sure he doesn't either. The Turkish people (or the majority of them) didn't want the coup that's why they came out in their thousands and the traitors failed.

[/SPOILER]

This is secular Republic of Turkey

Tell that to Erdogan, guess you were one of the supporters of the coup? Well, guess what? It failed and hopefully the people behind it get executed. Good luck with the tantrums it ain't going to help you MR. This is secular Republic of Turkey.

For someone who has no links with Turkey you seem awfully happy fantasizing the execution... We had to hang a few terrorists who killed many -as much as I stood behind the verdict, I didn't see anything to celebrate or laugh about it.. it was just something that had to be done. So I find your reaction pretty strange.

 

[paratise]

You don't need to know who i am, and stop quoting me then.

It's an illegal coup and they failed, hopefully erdogan gets rid of the people who'd stab him in the back for extra coins in their back pockets



*No point replying.quoting this ain't going to be replying back*

Don't care for turkish history, as i ain't turkish. What the president does with other presidents is his problem. Ottoman empire is not even here in the present so why dig up the past? Plus don't really care what you think of the president and i'm pretty sure he doesn't either. The Turkish people (or the majority of them) didn't want the coup that's why they came out in their thousands and the traitors failed.

[/SPOILER]

This is secular Republic of Turkey

Tell that to Erdogan, guess you were one of the supporters of the coup? Well, guess what? It failed and hopefully the people behind it get executed. Good luck with the tantrums it ain't going to help you MR. This is secular Republic of Turkey.

Erdogan is actually killing people for fattening his pocket you prick.
But you would not know as you are a vahhabi stroker who insert his Islamist fantasies in our country.

Y r u telling me to read a book if you do not know or care about Turkish history? Why are you a making a comment? I know why because salafi shitstains like you only care about our country or politics for Erdogan's wrinkles and Sharia fantasies.

MoriBtch, i belive coup is staged. You do not live here so you are not entitled to anyone's life or well being.
Fact is caliphate ended here by founders of this country. Fact is this country, no matter what you say constitutionally secular. Fact is this is what founder of this country thinks:

You must be registered for see images

If you want execution so much go to Saudi Arabia maybe they will execute you for too much ball licking.

 

[nefraiko]

if I may comment on this,

while I know nothing of turkey's modern history or it's political system or erdogan, I am pretty sure that no coup made by the army can be beneficial for the country. if the people aren't happy with the government they make a revolution, or they don't elect again the president. it is not the army that should make that.

because the army doesn't represent anyone, generals aren't elected, and I'm 100% sure that they are not angels eather. every country that let's the army do whatever it wants ends up in a dictatorship.
so what ? the army doesn't like the government then they take it off ? are we living in the jungle ?

if the revolution is not made by the people then somebody is establishing a dictatorship.

 

[Avani]

if I may comment on this,

while I know nothing of turkey's modern history or it's political system or erdogan, I am pretty sure that no coup made by the army can be beneficial for the country. if the people aren't happy with the government they make a revolution, or they don't elect again the president. it is not the army that should make that.

because the army doesn't represent anyone, generals aren't elected, and I'm 100% sure that they are not angels eather. every country that let's the army do whatever it wants ends up in a dictatorship.
so what ? the army doesn't like the government then they take it off ? are we living in the jungle ?

if the revolution is not made by the people then somebody is establishing a dictatorship.

Revolutions are almost never made by the normal people. They are just used by some smart politician whether s/he belong to army or not. They rally behind anyone who seem to talk about them. And in almost all cases they are just being fooled in some of the matters at least.

If they are lucky they end up with a better administrator if not... then that's that.

 

[nefraiko]

Revolutions are almost never made by the normal people. They are just used by some smart politician whether s/he belong to army or not. They rally behind anyone who seem to talk about them. And in almost all cases they are just being fooled. If they are lucky they end up with a better administrator if not... then that's that.

yes but at least their power is used to overthrow the established government, but the army does give no shits about the people, they take their tanks and do their thing. and that is dangerous.

 

[Avani]

yes but at least their power is used to overthrow the established government, but the army does give no shits about the people, they take their tanks and do their thing. and that is dangerous.

I\m not in favour of dictators either . But- Army is made of people and also citizens of the same country. They can be as much of selfish egoistic power hungry ******* as anyone. But every country has it's own history- Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was an army officer... and this coup seems to be one of the lamest. So....

 

[Mori Jin]

Erdogan is actually killing people for fattening his pocket you prick.
But you would not know as you are a vahhabi stroker who insert his Islamist fantasies in our country.

Y r u telling me to read a book if you do not know or care about Turkish history? Why are you a making a comment? I know why because salafi shitstains like you only care about our country or politics for Erdogan's wrinkles and Sharia fantasies.

MoriBtch, i belive coup is staged. You do not live here so you are not entitled to anyone's life or well being.
Fact is caliphate ended here by founders of this country. Fact is this country, no matter what you say constitutionally secular. Fact is this is what founder of this country thinks:

You must be registered for see images

If you want execution so much go to Saudi Arabia maybe they will execute you for too much ball licking.

Maybe I will go Saudi Arabia, but trust me they'll much rather execute you than me.

The first link did mention it looked amateurish... But yea...it's hard to understand what's going on from outside when one is relying only on the news and may not know local conditions and exactly how things developed.



For someone who has no links with Turkey you seem awfully happy fantasizing the execution... We had to hang a few terrorists who killed many -as much as I stood behind the verdict, I didn't see anything to celebrate or laugh about it.. it was just something that had to be done. So I find your reaction pretty strange.

What would you do if someone committed treason? Wouldn't you have them executed or put in jail for life?

Erdogan is actually killing people for fattening his pocket you prick.
But you would not know as you are a vahhabi stroker who insert his Islamist fantasies in our country.

Y r u telling me to read a book if you do not know or care about Turkish history? Why are you a making a comment? I know why because salafi shitstains like you only care about our country or politics for Erdogan's wrinkles and Sharia fantasies.

MoriBtch, i belive coup is staged. You do not live here so you are not entitled to anyone's life or well being.
Fact is caliphate ended here by founders of this country. Fact is this country, no matter what you say constitutionally secular. Fact is this is what founder of this country thinks:

You must be registered for see images

If you want execution so much go to Saudi Arabia maybe they will execute you for too much ball licking.

Complain all you like erdogan is staying. And I'm pretty he doesn't give a rats arse about your opinions. Don't care what you believe coup failed, what's this about a caliphate? You need to calm down you're sounding like a terrorist you know.

 

[nefraiko]

Army is made of people. They can be as much of selfish egoistic power hungry ******* as anyone. But every country has it's own history- Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was an army officer... and this coup seems to be one of the lamest. So....

I don't know if you understood what I wanted to say,
the army is made by people trained and formed to obey, and given a great power. they are not elected, they don't own this power.

the people elects the government and delegates the power of decision, destruction, justice, etc. , the government gives some means of destruction to the army, but doesn't delegate the use of it because the decision to use this power resides in the hand of the government. the army obeys the order that's all.

when an army makes a coup it steals this power that by no means belongs to it.
it is an ugly act that makes think of a mafia organisation.

the people gives the power, and the people takes it.

 

[Avani]

What would you do if someone committed treason? Wouldn't you have them executed or put in jail for life?

Treason against whom? Am I the government? No- so I'm not going to do anything.

However, if it's my country and the court orders it, I will support it if it's in my country's interest. As it is people involve in treason here are usually the terrorists. If it's some country miles away from me then I will be more or less neutral like I am' now. But in either case talking about executing someone is NOT a comic or a happy event for me even if I find it necessary in extreme cases.

You on the other hand claim not to care about that country or it's history or people, do not belong to it and thus have no interest ( logically) but still getting so much excited and hopeful to see them dead. There is something deeply wrong about this picture.

I don't know if you understood what I wanted to say,
the army is made by people trained and formed to obey, and given a great power. they are not elected, they don't own this power.

the people elects the government and delegates the power of decision, destruction, justice, etc. , the government gives some means of destruction to the army, but doesn't delegate the use of it because the decision to use this power resides in the hand of the government. the army obeys the order that's all.

when an army makes a coup it steals this power that by no means belongs to it.
it is an ugly act that makes think of a mafia organisation.

the people gives the power, and the people takes it.

Yea I agree to that extent. It just seems slightly different situation here according to Paratise and some other internet articles I saw.