[Predictions] Naruto Manga 502 Discussion and 503 Predictions

[silenceofthelambs]

Well, I don't know. If I remember correctly, in an interview (before Pain), Kishi told us that the 4th was the strongest dead shinobi. Anko and the 3rd has had conversation that told us that the 4th was the strongest Hokage ever. Now what is confused me is where the sage of six paths' place? Is he still alive or he just didn't have normal dead? If Hashirama who defeated Madara was weaker than Minato, then it's only logical that even in his full power Madara was weaker than Minato for sure. However it's just my logic, maybe Kishi forgot about that interview or just decided to do something else.

Anko only told Sarutobi that she wished the Fourth would still be alive to fight Orochimaru. Sarutobi reminded her that Minato had died long ago to defend the village from the Nine-Tailed Fox. Also, there seems to be several conflicting statements in the manga as to who is actually the strongest Hokage. Characters have put forth the First, Second, and Third as the strongest, but I don't think the Fourth has been mentioned as the most powerful of the Hokages. Actually, according to what the latest chapter has given us, Minato becomes the second weakest of all Hokages. It turns out his Flying Thunder God technique bares some similarity to the Second's teleportation technique, so that bumps the Second Hokage up from his perch drastically.

Below is why I think the Fourth Hokage is not the strongest Hokage, as many believe.

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That ANBU clearly says the First and Second Hokage were the strongest Shinobi Konoha ever had, and created Konoha as we know it now. That to me just seems like plain evidence that the first two Hokages were in fact the most powerful ninja Konoha ever had, not the Fourth.

 

[Yhoko]

Even with all the power Naruto has now, I've yet to see him use anything like the space-time tech. of Minato or Madara. It would be almost impossible for him to handle Madara at this point, Kyuubi or no Kyuubi.

That being said, we all know how the whole thing ends, but it will be interesting to see how they got from point A to point B.

 

[yondaimeminato]

Unless Minato also made the realization that the Nine-Tails was a more immediate threat, and needed to be given to Konoha in hopes that they would be able to combat Madara should he ever attack the village again. What is better, defeating the immediate and dangerous problem, or the root of the problem who could become more problematic than the Nine-Tailed Fox itself? It is a difficult decision to make, and at one point Minato would just have to choose.

Well, he is the hokage. The people in the village are waiting for him to protect them from the immediate threat or danger rather than following a person who would just teleport away.

Plus, minato managed to stop madara for 16 years, enough time for naruto to grow up and take control of the nine tail demon and hopefully learn "that" jutsu.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Well, he is the hokage. The people in the village are waiting for him to protect them from the immediate threat or danger rather than following a person who would just teleport away.

Plus, minato managed to stop madara for 16 years, enough time for naruto to grow up and take control of the nine tail demon and hopefully learn "that" jutsu.

Nothing in the manga still suggests that Madara fled his fight with Minato. So we don't know about that yet. While the Nine-Tailed Fox might have been more of an imminent threat, look what kind of a threat Madara poses to the ninja world now. Minato recognized the fact that Madara would be able to release something more troublesome than the Nine-Tailed Fox, though in the future, and made an effort to kill him. But the fact is, the lesser, yet still gigantic threat, was threatening to pulverize Konoha once and for all.

Besides, Minato hasn't "stopped" Madara for sixteen years; Madara has still been moving forward with his plans ever since - the Uchiha clan massacre, Itachi joining Akatsuki, destruction of Konoha (which, although Pain physically committed, he was under orders from Madara to find the Nine-Tails), and the list goes on.

Also, "that jutsu" might not be one of Minato's - it could be a technique of Jiraiya's, Kushina's, or anyone else's for that matter. The reason why I don't think it is the Flying Thunder God technique is because that jutsu requires kunai, in other words seals - while Kushina taught Minato several different seals, there is really no one around to teach Naruto. And there is no way he can "upgrade" the jutsu because the Flying Thunder God technique requires the user have a specific marked location they want to go to. Without the kunai, the person would simply be lost in the space-time continuum. It is a restriction that is completely necessary, and no one is going to be able to remove it. That's just how the jutsu works.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

madara already knew that naruto was going to attack him from behind and naruto even had time to shout at him and madara also had time to say what naruto did.

There is a huge difference in speed, you have to agree at least this much...

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there might be more. No there has to be more, i don't want it to end like this. In this battle minato won in speed that's all even though madara space/time jutsus exceeds minato's. He managed to beat him in speed.

Yes, there is a large difference in speed, but I can't help but thinking Minato did not hit the real Madara. Remember when Naruto was pummeling Deidara to the ground? Naruto continued attacking relentlessly, until "Deidara" was found to be nothing but a clay clone. I suppose that when Minato's attack finishes, he will only find a pile of mud that he drove into, much like Sarutobi's Earth Clone technique.

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Minato himself said that attacking at all for Madara would be risky, so why choose to confront Minato head on with the risk it presents? Also, considering what he said in chapter 440, we can now infer that Madara, "s[eeing] through everything [Minato did]," was, as the words suggest, prepared for this attack, and had a plan to turn the tables around.

If Minato were indeed to land the Rasengan without Madara expecting it, why would he have such a helpless expression on his face in that chapter? Minato should give himself some credit for being to land an attack on one of the most powerful Shinobi ever, don't you think? But I also agree with you, I don't want the battle to end this way. It's too short, and it's what a lot of people have wanted for quite some time.

 

[baah]

I totally agree on your other point. This Madara seems a lot more Tobish (new word in the dictionary) then the one we know now.

two personalities in one body ehh...what if he's really zetsu....or zetsu's madara clone.....lol.....zetsu can make a complete copy of any shinobi remember....

 

[Scorps]

Interesting Chapter...but I was expecting more after such a long wait...I think it was too short...

There are some "side" discussions that keep showing up...

1st hokage's strength
2nd Madara not being madara
3rd Zetsu


People, untill a few more chapters, no one can answer those questions. The hokage's question keeps showing up and all we get are fans fighting over who they like the most, not who is strongest... For some reason I don't understand, everyone is confused with the whole tobi and madara deal. And now to make everything more confusing everyone is now thinking that somehow zetsu is a clone or whatever of something and what not.... god...this is getting a little out of hand...

People, calm down. It's getting confusing...:S

 

[voltsgm]

Madara said to Sasuke in some Chapters back...

''i'm still weak from my last fight with Minato''

''i don't recovery all my powers yet''


That means he'll know pain on the next chapter!!!

 

[Unityvybe]

Could the Uchiha have helped Madara escape death in the past by using Izanagi while he was fighting Hashirama. Maybe this could explain why Madara is around today. Also could the Uchiha be using Izanagi again to help Madara fight against Minato? This could explain why Fugaku and the other Uchiha weren't around when the Kyubbi appeared. Maybe they were to busy in their secret Uchiha hideout concentrating on Izanagi. This could also explain why Madara has a ton of extra Sharingans stored at his base and why you can hit Madara but he doesn't seem to take damage and things pass right through him. I don't know if this is for sure but enough of my first post and rant. I am probably wrong but I just wanted to air my speculations

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Madara said to Sasuke in some Chapters back...

''i'm still weak from my last fight with Minato''

''i don't recovery all my powers yet''


That means he'll know pain on the next chapter!!!

He never said anything like that. The only reason Madara gives for being a "mere shell of [his] former self" was because of his defeat to Hashirama Senju at the Valley of the End. Besides, Madara has never stated to anyone in the manga that he actually fought Minato. All Minato gave was the statement that the man in the mask was reading each of his moves, one step ahead of him.

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[silenceofthelambs]

Could the Uchiha have helped Madara escape death in the past by using Izanagi while he was fighting Hashirama. Maybe this could explain why Madara is around today. Also could the Uchiha be using Izanagi again to help Madara fight against Minato? This could explain why Fugaku and the other Uchiha weren't around when the Kyubbi appeared. Maybe they were to busy in their secret Uchiha hideout concentrating on Izanagi. This could also explain why Madara has a ton of extra Sharingans stored at his base and why you can hit Madara but he doesn't seem to take damage and things pass right through him. I don't know if this is for sure but enough of my first post and rant. I am probably wrong but I just wanted to air my speculations

The Uchiha using Izanagi for Madara? It doesn't seem likely. Why? Because if the Uchiha clan were to find out that Madara was still alive, the massacre would never have happened. The Uchiha would have told the elders Madara was behind the attack, and diaster could have been avoided. I think, apart from Madara, the Uchiha clan was scheming something of its own kind, and intended to make that plan known to the rest of the village.

Madara's laboratory has a great number of Sharingan eyes immersed in fluid - who knows, perhaps he takes each Uchiha's eyes upon their death? It might seem far-fetched, but considering Madara and his plans, he has a great deal of time to plan all these things out.

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The circumstances surrounding that workplace might not be revealed for another good number of chapters, because as it is now, we are caught up in a major plotline that has to be resolved before other things can be shown.

 

[sekill]

Yondaime is great and Naruto will be greater! Thats fun to whatch.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

I just found more reason to believe that Minato's attack will not have any effect on Madara in the next chapter.

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When Naruto tries to attack Madara, he says "you know full well [a Rasengan] won't work on me." Madara might purposely be feigning injury so he can attack Minato while his guard is down. Minato's strategy was impressive, I agree with all those who say that, but Madara just doesn't seem like the person that would be defeated or outplayed so easily. Thus their fight will continue, while the Nine-Tailed Fox will eventually become the more pressing matter for Minato, deciding to seal it into his son Naruto, hoping to give him the power necessary to fight Madara in the future.

 

[baah]

@scorps: i was joking about zetsu...but we have to agree that zetsu can create a copy of madara.....

Im confused on why would madara aim for peace...given that his situation back then suggests him aim just for revenge... Was he just thinking that the uchia can create better peace than the senjus has created....or has he inherited the will of the first born so6p sibbling-"Might for peace"

 

[voltsgm]

hey. mr. Lecter, he said for sure, maybe i changed the hokages (the first one), but he said.

i have not such a time do search old chaps, but madara said it one time, on the sasuke x itachi's fight chaps i think... before or after...

 

[silenceofthelambs]

hey. mr. Lecter, he said for sure, maybe i changed the hokages (the first one), but he said.

i have not such a time do search old chaps, but madara said it one time, on the sasuke x itachi's fight chaps i think... before or after...

So you mean to say that Madara was weakened because of his fight with the First Hokage? In that case then you are correct. Just take a look at the link I provided in my post above. But nowhere in the manga does Madara state that he is weak because of the fight he had with Minato. I don't even need to go back to the old chapters to know that this has never been said.

 

[BigBen]

Nothing in the manga still suggests that Madara fled his fight with Minato. So we don't know about that yet. While the Nine-Tailed Fox might have been more of an imminent threat, look what kind of a threat Madara poses to the ninja world now. Minato recognized the fact that Madara would be able to release something more troublesome than the Nine-Tailed Fox, though in the future, and made an effort to kill him. But the fact is, the lesser, yet still gigantic threat, was threatening to pulverize Konoha once and for all.

Besides, Minato hasn't "stopped" Madara for sixteen years; Madara has still been moving forward with his plans ever since - the Uchiha clan massacre, Itachi joining Akatsuki, destruction of Konoha (which, although Pain physically committed, he was under orders from Madara to find the Nine-Tails), and the list goes on.

Also, "that jutsu" might not be one of Minato's - it could be a technique of Jiraiya's, Kushina's, or anyone else's for that matter. The reason why I don't think it is the Flying Thunder God technique is because that jutsu requires kunai, in other words seals - while Kushina taught Minato several different seals, there is really no one around to teach Naruto. And there is no way he can "upgrade" the jutsu because the Flying Thunder God technique requires the user have a specific marked location they want to go to. Without the kunai, the person would simply be lost in the space-time continuum. It is a restriction that is completely necessary, and no one is going to be able to remove it. That's just how the jutsu works.

If i remember correctly Kakashi has that special knife
The forth gave it to him as a graduation gift when he became a juion (sorry about spelling) so it is quite possible for Naruto to learn that tech BUT even tho it would be sweet to see it i think it'll be hax cause he could have a clone army with a bunch of knives or sage it with 3 and just pwn all lol
But i do not see how he "sees threw everything I did" as the 4th said maybe kishi is building up minato to show just how bad ass he was and the instant rasengan was epic lol just throw knife and pwnd lol
"That Jutsu" your talking about was a futton rasenshriken he was practicing in the mountians with sage mode ...
I am also wondering If the 4th was truly the most epic ninja then how could the first pwn madara at full strength and the 4th possibly have so much trouble with him ?
And kabuto seems to know something about tobi/madara with that coffin he summond and made tobi/madara shit himself ... any thoughts on this ?
Plus it looks like it maybe 2 different people as tobi's/ Madara's mask is different in the battle against the 4th for me anyways the pattern on it is different what do you think ?

 

[yondaimeminato]

Nothing in the manga still suggests that Madara fled his fight with Minato. So we don't know about that yet. While the Nine-Tailed Fox might have been more of an imminent threat, look what kind of a threat Madara poses to the ninja world now. Minato recognized the fact that Madara would be able to release something more troublesome than the Nine-Tailed Fox, though in the future, and made an effort to kill him. But the fact is, the lesser, yet still gigantic threat, was threatening to pulverize Konoha once and for all.

Besides, Minato hasn't "stopped" Madara for sixteen years; Madara has still been moving forward with his plans ever since - the Uchiha clan massacre, Itachi joining Akatsuki, destruction of Konoha (which, although Pain physically committed, he was under orders from Madara to find the Nine-Tails), and the list goes on.

Also, "that jutsu" might not be one of Minato's - it could be a technique of Jiraiya's, Kushina's, or anyone else's for that matter. The reason why I don't think it is the Flying Thunder God technique is because that jutsu requires kunai, in other words seals - while Kushina taught Minato several different seals, there is really no one around to teach Naruto. And there is no way he can "upgrade" the jutsu because the Flying Thunder God technique requires the user have a specific marked location they want to go to. Without the kunai, the person would simply be lost in the space-time continuum. It is a restriction that is completely necessary, and no one is going to be able to remove it. That's just how the jutsu works.

but the konoha villagers are still alive. Even though pain attacked konoha, he brought them back to life and there wasn't any direct attack from madara during those sixteen years. When he had the organization to destroy nations, itachi stood in his way.

Do you think minato is some kind of Psychic or something? all minato knew was that one day that mask man would return to attack the konoha village again. Minato had no idea whatsoever that madara was going to make the akatsuki, kill uchiha clan etc. He left the task of killing this mask man to his son.

Minato as a hokage had to protect the villagers from the nine tail demon fox.

The fact that minato seal the nine tail demon fox into his son suggest that madara/tobi/mask man wasn't around to stop minato.

for madara/tobi/mask man, it would have been better if itachi didn't kill the entire uchiha clan because he wants war but since itachi found out about him, he had no choice but to accept his offer. Madara/tobi/mask man is obsessed with the idea of having war.

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If he can't get the nations to war against each other again, he will make one himself.

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Just like I don't know whether madara/tobi/masked man got defeated with that rasengan although I doubt it. You don't know whether "that" jutsu is not FGT jutsu.

 

[yondaimeminato]

Yes, there is a large difference in speed, but I can't help but thinking Minato did not hit the real Madara. Remember when Naruto was pummeling Deidara to the ground? Naruto continued attacking relentlessly, until "Deidara" was found to be nothing but a clay clone. I suppose that when Minato's attack finishes, he will only find a pile of mud that he drove into, much like Sarutobi's Earth Clone technique.

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Minato himself said that attacking at all for Madara would be risky, so why choose to confront Minato head on with the risk it presents? Also, considering what he said in chapter 440, we can now infer that Madara, "s[eeing] through everything [Minato did]," was, as the words suggest, prepared for this attack, and had a plan to turn the tables around.

If Minato were indeed to land the Rasengan without Madara expecting it, why would he have such a helpless expression on his face in that chapter? Minato should give himself some credit for being to land an attack on one of the most powerful Shinobi ever, don't you think? But I also agree with you, I don't want the battle to end this way. It's too short, and it's what a lot of people have wanted for quite some time.

he has a mask, how the hell do you expect to get a pain expression from someone who is wearing a mask and only one eye is showing.

 

[yondaimeminato]

I just found more reason to believe that Minato's attack will not have any effect on Madara in the next chapter.

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When Naruto tries to attack Madara, he says "you know full well [a Rasengan] won't work on me." Madara might purposely be feigning injury so he can attack Minato while his guard is down. Minato's strategy was impressive, I agree with all those who say that, but Madara just doesn't seem like the person that would be defeated or outplayed so easily. Thus their fight will continue, while the Nine-Tailed Fox will eventually become the more pressing matter for Minato, deciding to seal it into his son Naruto, hoping to give him the power necessary to fight Madara in the future.

yea because this happened when naruto tried to use his rasengan against madara

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still that doesn't mean that minato's rasengan didn't work because minato executed it extremely quick.