[Predictions] Naruto Manga 502 Discussion and 503 Predictions

[~Anubis~]

what if the nidaime sama was the first creator of the space time jutsu.he might have developed itwith the inspiration of uchiha's mangekyou sharingan dimensional barrier. how do you think it cuys.

 

[dexter64]

They mention the second hokage alot when it comes to great and powerful and famous jutsus!, could it be that "the reaper death seal" is also a jutsu of the second hokage and not kushina or the uzumaki clan?

the second hokage seemed to be expert on forbidden jutsus, and the reaper death seal is top on the list of forbidden jutsus!!

do you think minato learned his space-time ninjutsus because of the second hokage?, perhaps he studied the second hokages skills, so he picked up the space-time ninjutsu and the reaper death seal, but ofcourse i think minato might have improved the space-time ninjutsu alittle better than the second hokage!!

although just one thing, i know its not so much possible as probable, but, how do we know that the second hokage was all good?

the first hokage was good, but could it be that his brother wasnt?

the first hokage might have known about it, or he might have not had a clue about it, but either case, the second hokage and his brother might have not been so a like as people might think!!

but for now i will skip that theory, instead i was thinking - we know that it was the second hokage that created the konoha police force!, in other words, it was the second hokage who gave the uchiha the position of the police force!!

i think there is a history between the second hokage and the uchiha!, and so if the uchiha was involved with the second hokage - so must have been tobi!!

well i think at the time when sarutobi and danzou were deciding who would be a decoy - and the second hokage acted all noble and said i will be the decoy - i think he had other things in mind that will be revealed to us later on in the manga!!

1-the second hokage and those 20 bounty hunters had an arrangement!

2-the second hokage already knew that he wasnt gonna come back so he announced sarutobi hiruzen as hokage!!

3-those 20 men would have been easy to defeat by the second hokage, he could have defeated them in a split second!, minato had space-time ninjutsu and he defeated 50 ninjas with it in less than a second!, the second hokage also had space-time ninjutsu, and i dont think any of those 20 bounty hunters had space-time ninjutsu!, so even if they were powerful, the time of their defeat would not change when their up against space-time ninjutsu!!

remember the shinobis of the other countries were warned to flee if they ever so the yellow flash! - because of his space-time ninjutsu!!, and now we know the second hokage also could use space-time ninjutsu!!

4-so there is almost no way the second hokage was defeated or died by those 20 bounty hunters you guys should know that!!, so this means two things:

1-the second hokage didnt die there

2-the second hokage didnt die by the hands of those 20 bounty hunters but by someone elses hands!!

3-the second hokage is tobi! lol, its farfetched and i dont think it, but just thought to put it in the list anyway!, i mean the second hokage was a master of the forbidden jutsu afterall, and was interested in learning many jutsus - perhaps all jutsu like orochimaro! in any case im sure he would have desired the sharingan!, and he would be a suspect to wipe out the uchiha clan, since he showed his dislike for them by making them police puppets!!


4-one more thing that is important, we all know that there is always a reason behind showing or mentioning something in a manga, and in the last chapters they have mentioned alot about the second hokage! and mostly connected with the uchiha!, there is a reason behind it im almost sure!!


oh and afterall - his name is tobi-rama!! lol

The theory about the 2nd Hokage as Tobi is wrong obviously, because Orochimaru resurected him to fight the 3rd so he ought to be dead.

I think there is a big difference in Minato's FTG with Tobi's space/time jutsu. I think FTG is a part of Minato's space/time jutsu. Minato tranported himself in a flash to wherever place that has his special marking. Apart from FTG, Minato also has the ability to transport something through space (he redirected 9 tails attack), but how he pick the destination, is it has to be somewhere that has his special marking or he could pick any destination he wanted?

Tobi's space/time jutsu is rather different he could manipulate himself anyway, anywhere, anyhow and anytime he like, no need for special marking, but the downside of this is the speed is not as fast as FTG. We can see from the drawing (the swirl which also symbolise something that take a few moment) of the manga whenever Tobi used his space/time jutsu.

So FTG is much faster than Tobi's jutsu, but FTG very limited in the end destination while Tobi can be anywhere he wanted.

We don't know about what kind of space/time jutsu the 2nd have, I guess we have to wait for Kishi to tell us.

 

[dexter64]

Madara, before his loss to Hashirama Senju, was perhaps the most dangerous Shinobi that ever lived. In a way, he still is, but he is weakened, and is forced to resort to other methods most wouldn't in combat. The thing is, during Madara's fight with Hashirama, the First took control of the Nine-Tails and turned it against Madara, leading to Madara's defeat. If the fox had remained under his control, Madara would probably have killed Hashirama.

Everyone in the Naruto world recognizes Madara's immense strength, and for good reason. They fully now what he is capable of, and you have to remember, the Madara that is now fighting with Minato is nowhere near the Madara we once knew during his prime. I'm sure many know that if Minato were to face Madara in his prime, the results would be enormously different.

Itachi himself says "soon [Madara] was praised as the strongest Shinobi in the world." Back then, no one was able to challenge him, but Hashirama's Mokuton techniques, designed to suppress the fox, were the one ability that could. Because of them, Hashirama managed to win the titanic clash between himself and Madara.

Besides, the results of Minato and Madara's fight have yet to be seen; Madara, claiming to be a "mere shell of [his] former self," might still be stronger than the Fourth Hokage, who in many aspects was an incredible ninja. Why else would Minato say "he saw through everything I did?" That line can be interpreted in many ways, but soon we shall see what he really meant when he said those words to Naruto in chapter 440. So far, it is an impressive fight, and it will only get better, no doubt about that.

Well, I don't know. If I remember correctly, in an interview (before Pain), Kishi told us that the 4th was the strongest dead shinobi. Anko and the 3rd has had conversation that told us that the 4th was the strongest Hokage ever. Now what is confused me is where the sage of six paths' place? Is he still alive or he just didn't have normal dead? If Hashirama who defeated Madara was weaker than Minato, then it's only logical that even in his full power Madara was weaker than Minato for sure. However it's just my logic, maybe Kishi forgot about that interview or just decided to do something else.

 

[~Anubis~]

that only what we can do just wait.

 

[dexter64]

just a thought guys:
we know that the 3rd was known as the professor for knowing all of the jutsu in Konoha,
and since the FTG was a konoha jutsu that must mean that the 3rd also knew how to use it.

So the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hokages all knew how to use space and time Jutsu.
Its not quite that special after all

Is that so? How many people so far in Naruto world could do space/time jutsu? Either it is an A/S rank jutsu or it is a blood limit jutsu, I guess.

 

[Hyuuga Essa]

Is that so? How many people so far in Naruto world could do space/time jutsu? Either it is an A/S rank jutsu or it is a blood limit jutsu, I guess.

What i meant by its not that special is that its not a kekki genkai which means any1 can learn it in theory.

Its not like the sharingan or byakugan where you have to be born with it.
unless ofcourse the 4th is the 3rds son and the 3rd is the 2nds son.

that would make it pretty special.

although that cannot be true

 

[Hipster Madara]

lol madara got pwned
but im sure he has some tricks up his sleeve. madara didnt look like he was hurt all that much really (for a rasengan madara hold up well). this is chapter obviously didn't state who is better minato or madara since teh fight just started but minato has that clear lead right now. madara was probably underestimating minato's speed......... i hate how kishi drags out everything lol i bet this flash back will go out for like 3 or 4 more chapters considering how slow this is going.

Honestly im going for madara but man did minato pwn him.... it might be the end of the battle but i doubt it a lot
leave it to kishi to surprise you

 

[Dragon Lord]

The theory about the 2nd Hokage as Tobi is wrong obviously, because Orochimaru resurected him to fight the 3rd so he ought to be dead.

I think there is a big difference in Minato's FTG with Tobi's space/time jutsu. I think FTG is a part of Minato's space/time jutsu. Minato tranported himself in a flash to wherever place that has his special marking. Apart from FTG, Minato also has the ability to transport something through space (he redirected 9 tails attack), but how he pick the destination, is it has to be somewhere that has his special marking or he could pick any destination he wanted?

Tobi's space/time jutsu is rather different he could manipulate himself anyway, anywhere, anyhow and anytime he like, no need for special marking, but the downside of this is the speed is not as fast as FTG. We can see from the drawing (the swirl which also symbolise something that take a few moment) of the manga whenever Tobi used his space/time jutsu.

So FTG is much faster than Tobi's jutsu, but FTG very limited in the end destination while Tobi can be anywhere he wanted.

We don't know about what kind of space/time jutsu the 2nd have, I guess we have to wait for Kishi to tell us.

i didnt say my theory was right, and you cant be sure its wrong!!

ftg is supposed to be faster than tobis space-time ninjuutsu, but still we cant be sure!, tobi might be not using his full powers in even in space-time ninjutsu!, i think its probable that tobi space-time ninjutsu can even be faster than minatos hiraishin level 2 if he uses it to its full potencial!!

im almost sure that tobis ability to make himself incorporial is due to his space-time ninjutsu, so there could be two reasons why tobi can make his body go through objects:

1-tobi transports parts of his body into other dimensions when attacked "which i dont believe is correct"

2-tobi vibrates his body at an extreme speed so his molecules vibrate so fast that he can walk through anything! "i believe this might be the answer"


anyway, about the second hokage, i didnt just say that he might be tobi, i also said that he might have been working with some people to bring down the uchiha clan!!

second hokages eyes are red, his looks is kinda special - do you guys think there is a reason for it?

 

[naturo9]

i want to see how it ends the fight before minato went back to konoha to fight and seal the kyuubi to his son but then again, madara was not there to kill or stop minato while he's busy sealing the kyuubi. was madara beaten or just watching the scene like he always does?

 

[naturo9]

i didnt say my theory was right, and you cant be sure its wrong!!

ftg is supposed to be faster than tobis space-time ninjuutsu, but still we cant be sure!, tobi might be not using his full powers in even in space-time ninjutsu!, i think its probable that tobi space-time ninjutsu can even be faster than minatos hiraishin level 2 if he uses it to its full potencial!!

im almost sure that tobis ability to make himself incorporial is due to his space-time ninjutsu, so there could be two reasons why tobi can make his body go through objects:

1-tobi transports parts of his body into other dimensions when attacked "which i dont believe is correct"

2-tobi vibrates his body at an extreme speed so his molecules vibrate so fast that he can walk through anything! "i believe this might be the answer"


anyway, about the second hokage, i didnt just say that he might be tobi, i also said that he might have been working with some people to bring down the uchiha clan!!

second hokages eyes are red, his looks is kinda special - do you guys think there is a reason for it?

Tobi = the human vibrator?

jk

 

[leenox]

nice chap..so epic..i really like it...4th FTW...

 

[knealis]

This was a pretty sweet chapter. one of my favorite parts is when Minato goes to face the fox he's standing on his own head on the hokage mountain lol. I have a feeling Kishi made Minato's rasengan attack look just like Naruto's to underline their relation and show how much Naruto is like his father.

@ SilenceOfTheLambs --> Dude chill. He's just showing support and his love of his favorite character don't stress about it cause it'll just start a war. The fight ain't over yet so IF (stressing the if) Tobi does beat Minato (although i don't think that eventuality will occur mainly due to Minato surviving to seal the Fox) then u can shove it right in his face lol

There's no point in speculating about those we haven't seen in combat yet (Hashirama, Madara, Tobirama, and the Third). We don't really know their true capabilities yet. Yes we have seen the Third in action, but he was also quite old. I mean at some point either Jiraiya or Kakashi (or both) have said that the next generation surpasses the previous one, so if that truly is the case then Minato would be stronger than the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Madara (and then Naruto, Sasuke would eventually end up being stronger than them) , but we just don't have enough evidence to justify these assumptions. Plus Hashirama and Madara didn't fight just that one time, they fought multiple times over many years and perhaps Madara won a few times, we don't really know (unless someone has something i overlooked) so at the Battle at the End they already knew how to fight each other, but Hashirama won by turning the Nine-tails back on Madara.

On the Tobi/Madara front, i already stated my theory (although someone posted one quite similar right before me lol) that Tobi is actually a descendant of Madara. Or my other theory, that "Tobi" is more of an Uchiha entity meaning the title (title is the wrong word, but can't think of the right one) "Tobi" gets passed down from generation to generation (kind of like a superhero, but in this cause more of a supervillain) whose sole purpose is to bring the Uchiha back into a place of honor/strength/fear.

Just some of my thoughts

 

[Hipster Madara]

DUDE OMFG, you're just mad that Minato just beat Madara fair and sqaure and proved he is stronger.

YOU ARE SO IN DENILE

MINATO > MADARA

OMG i cant beleive you think THAT was the whole battle!!!! kishi probably has something else in store because it would be lame that madara or whoever did so many things and now he is beat by one move... yea minato pwned him once but if you look closely masked man doesnt look that hurt for a rasengan.
God im sick of minato fanboys saying madara already lost. this was a speed battle for now its like idk boxing its only round 1. kishi would be lame to make this the only thing minato has to do to beat madara if minato is gonna beat madara he should atleast make it in a cool way.

over all my point is the BATTLE IS NOT OVER.... YET
i think that is what silenceofthelambs was trying to say too. kishi has a way to twist plots.
i just hope no body sends flamed responses to this. im not saying madara is better or the reverse just saying the battle isn't over till its over

 

[knealis]

Ohh and another thing, Someone said something about Tobi knowing what the 4th could do, but is that even true? I mean if he knew the 4th could teleport to those kunai with the seals on them then why does he seem so surprised when the 4th did that?

there was something else, but i can't think of it now

 

[dexter64]

What i meant by its not that special is that its not a kekki genkai which means any1 can learn it in theory.

Its not like the sharingan or byakugan where you have to be born with it.
unless ofcourse the 4th is the 3rds son and the 3rd is the 2nds son.

that would make it pretty special.

although that cannot be true

I know what you mean, but you miss what I mean. Not all jutsu can be mastered by just any body. You can learn but you mastered it to what level? Likewise just because you have the bloodline limit jutsu doesn't mean that you can use it at a level to compete to A/S rank ninjas. Last, we still don't know about space/time jutsu, is it bloodline limit or is it just another normal jutsu. So far we know about 3 occular jutsu, byakugan, sharingan and rinnegan. If the space/time jutsu is also bloodline limit, who to say that there is only one kind of space/time bloodline limit jutsu.

Now, here is an interesting thought, I think you have something on the 4th lineage, but where you went wrong is your fascination with the 3rd. What prevent Kishi to make the 4th as the descendant of the 2nd? What if the 4th was the grandchild or the great grandchild of the 2nd? However, if the space/time jutsu is bloodline limit then it means the 1st might have it also, which made it strange that the 5th not have it. Unles ofcourse if the bloodline limit is not something that can be awaken just like that (which are the case with Sasuke and Obito), so it might be possible to stay dormant for the rest of one life.

 

[Pin]

the battle's definitely not over. its just a cliffie now. but minato died sealing the fox right, so maybe the battle ended with madara injured badly because there's no way madara would let minato escape from their battle unless he's dead or seriously injured.

anyway, minatao is so INSANELY COOL! envious of naruto having such an awesome dad. if minato were my dad, i'd be uber proud of him

also loving the tender moment between itachi and sasuke. "your big brother's here to protect you no matter what happens" sigh, how true.

i bet the uchiha parents had something to do with the attack!! can totally see mikoto betraying kushina, thus leading madara to find out about her birth of naruto

 

[sasuke big fan]

mdara lied to sasuke (before) and said that he was not involved in 9 tails attack he said it was natural. :sasuke:

 

[Flvtist]

This was a pretty sweet chapter. one of my favorite parts is when Minato goes to face the fox he's standing on his own head on the hokage mountain lol. I have a feeling Kishi made Minato's rasengan attack look just like Naruto's to underline their relation and show how much Naruto is like his father.

@ SilenceOfTheLambs --> Dude chill. He's just showing support and his love of his favorite character don't stress about it cause it'll just start a war. The fight ain't over yet so IF (stressing the if) Tobi does beat Minato (although i don't think that eventuality will occur mainly due to Minato surviving to seal the Fox) then u can shove it right in his face lol

There's no point in speculating about those we haven't seen in combat yet (Hashirama, Madara, Tobirama, and the Third). We don't really know their true capabilities yet. Yes we have seen the Third in action, but he was also quite old. I mean at some point either Jiraiya or Kakashi (or both) have said that the next generation surpasses the previous one, so if that truly is the case then Minato would be stronger than the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Madara (and then Naruto, Sasuke would eventually end up being stronger than them) , but we just don't have enough evidence to justify these assumptions. Plus Hashirama and Madara didn't fight just that one time, they fought multiple times over many years and perhaps Madara won a few times, we don't really know (unless someone has something i overlooked) so at the Battle at the End they already knew how to fight each other, but Hashirama won by turning the Nine-tails back on Madara.

On the Tobi/Madara front, i already stated my theory (although someone posted one quite similar right before me lol) that Tobi is actually a descendant of Madara. Or my other theory, that "Tobi" is more of an Uchiha entity meaning the title (title is the wrong word, but can't think of the right one) "Tobi" gets passed down from generation to generation (kind of like a superhero, but in this cause more of a supervillain) whose sole purpose is to bring the Uchiha back into a place of honor/strength/fear.

Just some of my thoughts

I completely agree with you re: the strengths / abilities of the hokages. People like to make up rankings to see who's stronger, but the fact is we really know very little about what what each hokage's abilities were.

Interesting theory about Madara / Tobi. A theory I came up with is maybe Madara was actually brought back by the 2nd Hokage who used Edo Tensei during his battle with the 20 Elite Cloud Ninjas. Tobirama ended up dying, but perhaps the resurrected Madara continued to exist (assuming Edo Tensei is a different jutsu in that it doesn't expire when the user dies). We saw in the Third's battle with Orochimaru that damaged bodies brought back with Edo Tensei simply regenerate, and it does seem like Madara is able to do the same (he lost his right arm to Torune's bugs, but later he is shown to that arm back again. Also, he was hit with Amaterasu during his talk with Sasuke, but was somehow not consumed by it).

 

[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

Madara is strong but look at like this Madara really wanted to destroy Konoha so when the 4th interrupted the Kyuubi Madara took Minato to stop him. We know that Minato died by sealing the Kyuubi using the Reaper Death tech so why didn't Madara stop Minato??? well it looks like Minato got the better of Madara though I am almost certain that we haven't seen the last of this fight but at the end Minato somehow outsmarts Madara or inflicts serious damage and then Minato returns to the village thus Madara was only able to watch what Minato did. I may be wrong but it seems the most logical explanation for now

 

[yondaimeminato]

Even still, both used the element of surprise. No matter how slow a person is, it will give them a temporary advantage, don't you agree? If Konohamaru were to approach Madara from behind, threatening to slam a Rasengan into his back, the person being attacked would automatically be put on the defensive.

Of course, we still don't know how Minato's attack is going to affect Madara. Minato himself said that it would be risky for Madara to attack at all, so I don't see a reason for Madara to approach Minato directly at the end of the chapter without a plan as to counterattack in some form. Could Madara have made his body permeable right at the last second, avoiding the full power of the attack? Might it have been an earth clone, as Madara's affinity is the element earth? Did the attack really connect? All three are possible, but it's highly probable the fight is nowhere near over.

So while Minato might have been victorious in the first battle, there might be several more to come. Or not, because eventually the Nine-Tails is going to be so big a threat that Minato will have to stop it by himself, before other countless people die. In that case, though, the issue of "Minato vs. Madara" will not be solved, for the fight will just be considered a draw; unfinished. Neither Minato nor Madara will have reached their limits. To me, their most likely will be an ultimate victor, but who that will be is still unclear, despite what chapter 502 has given us.

madara already knew that naruto was going to attack him from behind and naruto even had time to shout at him and madara also had time to say what naruto did.

There is a huge difference in speed, you have to agree at least this much...

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there might be more. No there has to be more, i don't want it to end like this. In this battle minato won in speed that's all even though madara space/time jutsus exceeds minato's. He managed to beat him in speed.