I hope you realize that you just gave me a perfect example to work with, they all have the same sensing in different levels due to their mastery and ability to gather senjutsu. Madara has more Senjutsu chakra than Obito, thus his enhanced attributes that come from the same source will be stronger/more accurate.
Funny that you didn't even counter it, at all. And you know what's even funnier ? The fact that you didn't counter the point you just quoted and you're just trying to avoid the subject. So I'm gonna assume :
A) You have no point/argument.
B) You conceded.
What you want me to link the page wheRE it'S shown that shadow clones which is another instant tech requires chakra build up? Is that it?
Baseless claim. Obito needs to react first in order to activate Kamui, if he can't react, he won't activate it. Sasuke blitzed Madara, meaning that his striking speed > Madara's reaction speed, and I already proved that Madara's reactions > Obito's.
So naruto which is top sensor failed to sense another chakra mostrocity on the map
Just goes to prove that his technique activation is slower then PS so much he has time to think and stop it.
Naruto casually reacted and thrown a freaking rod halfway mean while. You seem to think that this chakra build up takes hours or something?
Naruto not sensing it =/= proving that it wasn't activated even though manga has shown that it was already activated.
He didn't even start the technique in the first place, that's not even how it works. He activates it and teleports to another location, simple as that, he didn't activate it in the first place as he saw PS, as indicated by the exclamation mark, also proving my previous point of PS being activated beforehand.
Pretty sure its '...and sent to another dimension instantly' U_U oh bias
I hope you realize that you just gave me a perfect example to work with, they all have the same sensing in different levels due to their mastery and ability to gather senjutsu. Madara has more Senjutsu chakra than Obito, thus his enhanced attributes that come from the same source will be stronger/more accurate.
Lol what perfect example? Jiraya didnt have sensing, toads didnt have sensing minato said he sucked and failed to sense his kyuubi less son, while naruto has solid feats of sensing unlike those. Thier chakra levels are unknown for you to come up with anything solid but your opinions.
Funny that you didn't even counter it, at all. And you know what's even funnier ? The fact that you didn't counter the point you just quoted and you're just trying to avoid the subject. So I'm gonna assume :
Yes it does, every technique needs chakra which then has to be built up at release point. Be it from mouth, eyes or other body parts U_U
Baseless claim. Obito needs to react first in order to activate Kamui, if he can't react, he won't activate it. Sasuke blitzed Madara, meaning that his striking speed > Madara's reaction speed, and I already proved that Madara's reactions > Obito's.
You're just scripting some poor ass strategy for Obito. Activating intangibility as fool proof method is must.
Obito can then dissappear into the ground move to safe location from which he can snipe sasuke.
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Naruto not sensing it =/= proving that it wasn't activated even though manga has shown that it was already activated.
He didn't even start the technique in the first place, that's not even how it works. He activates it and teleports to another location, simple as that, he didn't activate it in the first place as he saw PS, as indicated by the exclamation mark, also proving my previous point of PS being activated beforehand.
Yes naruto not sensing it, proves that. Because they were only 5 of them there in whole dimension and big massive chakra bloop doesnt go unnoticed.
It means that PS was activated so fast it made sasuke stop his slow swap activation
When i give you DB scan where is says that target is 'sent to another dimension in instant', your counter is oh well 'The kamui warp spawns instantly'. And now you dare to say this? How ironic U_U
All i hear is just some fanfics about sasuke's swap instant kill when its not how it goes in manga :vincent:
When i give you DB scan where is says that target is 'sent to another dimension in instant', your counter is oh well 'The kamui warp spawns instantly'. And now you dare to say this? How ironic U_U
And how in the world does that counter anything that I posted ? You're the one who brought that up in the first place, it doesn't even have anything to do with this argument. Nobody ever disagreed with that.
All i hear is just some fanfics about sasuke's swap instant kill when its not how it goes in manga
It isn't fanfic, the manga has shown us the mechanics of the technique, which you have been ignoring throughout the whole debate and crying about teleporting from point A to point B being impossible.
Sasuke activates the technique, instantly teleports from point A to point B and then strikes, this much should have been evident just from reading the manga.
Grabbing isn't the point, the point is, he needs to become tangible, which leaves him open to get attacked just like Minato did to him. Unless you are telling me that Obito doesn't need to be tangible to attack.
And will be tangible outside swap range to freeely target him or by aplying izanagi.
Never said it was right after each other, but his cooldown has only been observed twice, he used his Rinne Shift during the battle against Madara, within seconds or a minute at most of each other. Only needed to cooldown after those uses, during the Kaguya fight.
Depends on the size of barrier, kamui has warped whole explosion therefore all that is in area of barrier gets sucked.
Simply put if Obito uses hachibi sized barrier then sasuke goes along with rest of susanoo that falls under it.
Doesn't need to be fast. Kamui can't even get Sasuke since his Susanoo isn't transparent, giving him enough time to block LoS with a wing, protecting him from the next Kamui attack.
You should read DB description, everything is sucked within barrier radius.
Yeah, BSM Naruto's Avatar. Not talking about BSM Naruto's Avatar. I'm talking about RSM Naruto's Avatar. If all you can do is reference BSM Naruto's Avatar, then there is nothing more to say here. RSM Naruto's Kurama Avatar>>>>Hachibi in size.
As there is no difference in size from BM to BSM there shouldnt be one to RSM. The senjutsu from BSM didnt make avatar any bigger so i dont see why would RSM be different.
Doesn't mean that Kakashi and Obito were. Being able to run means you aren't affected by gravity.
Gravity affected everybody, if you failed to read kaguya did lessen the gravity somewhat that allowed them to run, but neither sasuke or naruto could lift their asses in time.
And how in the world does that counter anything that I posted ? You're the one who brought that up in the first place, it doesn't even have anything to do with this argument. Nobody ever disagreed with that.
The way you said it mean that only initial manifestation of wormhole is instant while DB states that end result (warped target) is instant. Makes a big difference.
I brough this argument to end your 'instant' argument and that it doesnt take time as you depicted.
It isn't fanfic, the manga has shown us the mechanics of the technique, which you have been ignoring throughout the whole debate and crying about teleporting from point A to point B being impossible.
The bold just goes to prove once again your bias and this will be the last reply to you as never did i say teleporting from A to B is impossible.
Mechanics of technique have nothing to do with sasuke's striking speed, which always been my argument U_U
Sasuke activates the technique, instantly teleports from point A to point B and then strikes, this much should have been evident just from reading the manga.
The way you said it mean that only initial manifestation of wormhole is instant while DB states that end result (warped target) is instant. Makes a big difference.
I brough this argument to end your 'instant' argument and that it doesnt take time as you depicted.
'succeeding without any interval of time' its not applicable to same process, it just does not exist in nature and can only be applied to multiple events happening at the same time/instant.
Nobody ever denied that Sasuke has to use his own striking speed to attack (not that it even matters as both me and KidGamer proved that Sasuke is fast enough to blitz Obito with it), I only replied to your "Obito sees Sasuke disappearing and then activates Kamui" BS.
I hope you just realized that you just agreed with Sasuke being able to instantly teleport from point A to point B, thus contradicting your previous "Obito sees Sasuke disappearing and then activates Kamui" argument. I'll take this as a concession.
1- Never said anything that you're claiming I did.
2- I only claimed that he needs to react first and then activate the technique, never claimed anything else.
3- None of this is relevant, nor does any of it invalidate Sasuke's technique being instant.
But still? nevermind that shit is different? You call yourself debater?
Nobody ever denied that Sasuke has to use his own striking speed to attack (not that it even matters as both me and KidGamer proved that Sasuke is fast enough to blitz Obito with it), I only replied to your "Obito sees Sasuke disappearing and then activates Kamui" BS.
None of you have proven that sasuke's striking speed would be enough to beat reaction time and intangibility of Obito.
I hope you just realized that you just agreed with Sasuke being able to instantly teleport from point A to point B, thus contradicting your previous "Obito sees Sasuke disappearing and then activates Kamui" argument. I'll take this as a concession.
You're still being lost in your own interpretations i guess.
I realize that it's instant in a way that it's brief moment.
Yes Obito with his senjutsu enhanced MS perception which could easily snipe fast moving ash bone in limited tracking space is more then good enough to beat striking speed of sasuke. Unless sasuke striking speed is superior to that of ash bone from empowered kaguya
DMS Obito is unbeatable. He has been shown to use both Kamui's simultaneously, so he can easily stay intangible and snipe Sasuke's head, neg difficulty.
There is nothing in Sasuke's arsenal to overcome Kamui, His gimped version of teleport will be his downfall....his eyes goes into cooldown just after 1 swap with rennigan. Then he is a sitting duck ready to be fked.
Obito can easily make sasuke waste his swaps.
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Proof that Sasuke goes into cooldown after one swap
He used 1 swap when Obito opened the portal.
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Now look at this scan
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There is literally nothing he did in between these two pages and his rennigan is still in cooldown LMAO, i'd rather have FTG than this piece of crap
I honestly don't know which one of the two posts above is more filled with BS. Anyways, I'll stop arguing here if all you can do is continuously put words in my mouth and bring up shit that was already countered, multiple times at that.
I honestly don't know which one of the two posts above is more filled with BS. Anyways, I'll stop arguing here if all you can do is continuously put words in my mouth and bring up shit that was already countered, multiple times at that.
I honestly don't know which one of the two posts above is more filled with BS. Anyways, I'll stop arguing here if all you can do is continuously put words in my mouth and bring up shit that was already countered, multiple times at that.
lmao, you can be rustled all day long, doesn't change the facts, Manga clearly shows that Sasuke goes in cooldown after each swap. DMS Obito will fk him up with double the speed lolz
I countered everything you threw at me, you on the other hand failed to counter one single point in all of your posts, and yet you keep bringing up shit that was already countered (e.g. the ashbone BS, the instant point, Obito not being blitzed, etc.), anyway, this argument ends here.
lmao, you can be rustled all day long, doesn't change the facts, Manga clearly shows that Sasuke goes in cooldown after each swap. DMS Obito will fk him up with double the speed lolz
I countered everything you threw at me, you on the other hand failed to counter one single point in all of your posts, and yet you keep bringing up shit that was already countered (e.g. the ashbone BS, the instant point, Obito not being blitzed, etc.), anyway, this argument ends here.
>Manga shows PS's hand coming to grab Sakura.
>Manga shows Sasuke surprised from seeing PS before it grabbed Sakura.
>Manga shows that the user first has to activate a lower level of Susano'o and then stabilise Susano'o so it can become PS, yet Kakashi's PS showed up from nowhere completely formed.
>Yet it wasn't there because Nardo didn't sense it.
I clearly specified what interpretation of instant I was referring to, you just ignored it and called it "my interpretation" even though I didn't quote it from anywhere (so "my interpretation" can't be wrong as I wasn't interpreting anything from anywhere), I was referring to the ability itself and what the panels have shown us.
Some mythical striking speed of sasuke that is supposed to surpass speed of empowered ash bone?
I made a straight comparison that Sasuke's striking speed > Madara's reaction speed, and Madara's reaction speed > Obito's, therefore Sasuke's striking speed > Obito's reactions. Reacting to "kaguya empowered" ash bone isn't disproving anything as Sasuke also reacted to it and dodged accordingly, the only way you can disprove that comparison (which is highly unlikely since it's a straight comparison of what manga has shown, portrayed and stated) is by proving that the ash bone is faster than Sasuke's striking speed, until then, you have no argument.
Get out, i have no business with self proclaimed kishi wannabes that think their interpretations are legit counters.
I hope you know the meaning of "self proclaimed", in which case you would be putting words in my mouth. Again.
And this is a fanfictional battle which requires you to have an interpretation of the manga. And it's also ironic how you're using your (flawed) interpretation as legit counters and yet accuse me of being wrong by doing the same.
Oh right, i guess i was using 0.001 of my brain power debating you
>Manga shows PS's hand coming to grab Sakura.
>Manga shows Sasuke surprised from seeing PS before it grabbed Sakura.
>Manga shows that the user first has to activate a lower level of Susano'o and then stabilise Susano'o so it can become PS, yet Kakashi's PS showed up from nowhere completely formed.
>Yet it wasn't there because Nardo didn't sense it.
The bold has happened after request to save sakura and since PS wasnt sensed before so it can only mean kakshi beat sasuke speedwise.
Susanoo can be spawned very fast as we've seen with madara, the stabilization process was but show off of madara, sasuke didnt waste time for that when he showcased his, in fact he was spawning stabilized version right away.
I clearly specified what interpretation of instant I was referring to, you just ignored it and called it "my interpretation" even though I didn't quote it from anywhere (so "my interpretation" can't be wrong as I wasn't interpreting anything from anywhere), I was referring to the ability itself and what the panels have shown us.
You overlook the manga fact that, Kamui is regarded as instant that can match FTG yet its slower then intangibility.
FTG is regarded as instant yet the FTG of clone is said to be slower instant.
DMS kamui is twice as fast so does it make it negative instant?
Summoning is instant yet was beaten by kamui snipe.
The point is that the only correct and unbiased definition of instant is 'brief moment' not 'w/o time' as it was convenient for you to push it U_U
I made a straight comparison that Sasuke's striking speed > Madara's reaction speed, and Madara's reaction speed > Obito's, therefore Sasuke's striking speed > Obito's reactions. Reacting to "kaguya empowered" ash bone isn't disproving anything as Sasuke also reacted to it and dodged accordingly, the only way you can disprove that comparison (which is highly unlikely since it's a straight comparison of what manga has shown, portrayed and stated) is by proving that the ash bone is faster than Sasuke's striking speed, until then, you have no argument.
Oh yeah that right, you actually thought you proved that madara had better reaction speed then Obito just cuz he had more chakra?
Wasnt it Obito beating madara's reaction speed by striking his arm up his chest and then trolling counter attack? Get lost :leaf:
Sasuke was never aimed by empowered ash bone, the bone he trolled was of inferior kaguya naruto was kicking around. It's whole new tier according to manga U_U
DMS could react to and snipe this empowered bone in span of some inches, sasuke's striking is nowhere close to that bone nor to beat this reaction and kamui feat.
I hope you know the meaning of "self proclaimed", in which case you would be putting words in my mouth. Again.
And this is a fanfictional battle which requires you to have an interpretation of the manga. And it's also ironic how you're using your (flawed) interpretation as legit counters and yet accuse me of being wrong by doing the same.
Fail logic is fail. Naruto can sense people and their chakra, yet he didn't sense Kakashi even coming close to Sakura, so going by your logic, Kakashi spawned there out of nowhere just because Naruto didn't sense him either.
Susanoo can be spawned very fast as we've seen with madara, the stabilization process was but show off of madara, sasuke didnt waste time for that when he showcased his in fact he was spawning stabilized version right away.
1- DMS doubles the warping speed i.e. opening the wormhole, not the speed of sending anyone to another dimension on contact.
2- Your argument could be valid if I actually quoted the manga saying that it's instant and interpreted it as if it took no time (which it obviously doesn't, as that's what teleportation is, transporting someone from point A to point B without taking any time whatsoever, and it was shown and stated that Sasuke has teleportation), but no, that's the interpretation I was referring to due to Sasuke saying he can teleport, and teleportation takes no time to move from point A to point B, understand that.
Oh yeah that right, you actually thought you proved that madara had better reaction speed then Obito just cuz he had more chakra?
Wasnt it Obito beating madara's reaction speed by striking his arm up his chest and then trolling counter attack? Get lost
Not having more chakra, but because Minato clearly stated that Madara's new form was more powerful than what Obito previously displayed, both of their powers come from the Juubi, or rather, Rikudo's senjutsu, and Rikudo Senjutsu gives more power, speed, strength, faster reactions, better sensing, etc., so if one has more of that power, they will obviously have a stronger portion of it, I shouldn't even need to explain this to you.
No, Obito's reactions beat Madara's striking speed, not his reactions, and then he simply attacked Madara, going by that logic, base Pain Arc Naruto is faster than Minato as he managed to punch him in the stomach in a similar way.
You claimed to counter me, since i couldnt find your counters anywhere in manga, i just concluded between the lines
Fail logic is fail. Naruto can sense people and their chakra, yet he didn't sense Kakashi even coming close to Sakura, so going by your logic, Kakashi spawned there out of nowhere just because Naruto didn't sense him either.
Naruto was able to immediately sense sasuke behind him while he initially thought that it was sasuke to save sakura.
This proves that had susanoo been present already it would be spotted by him.
Sensing kakashi is one thing sensing huge mass of chakra is another. Even thou he sensed kakashi he couldnt count on him as latter was fodder status.
There's also a fact that naruto was in air thus PS would certainly fall into his vision angle if it had been there.
2- Your argument could be valid if I actually quoted the manga saying that it's instant and interpreted it as if it took no time (which it obviously doesn't, as that's what teleportation is, transporting someone from point A to point B without taking any time whatsoever, and it was shown and stated that Sasuke has teleportation), but no, that's the interpretation I was referring to due to Sasuke saying he can teleport, and teleportation takes no time to move from point A to point B, understand that.
Im strongly confused. So FTG isnt teleportation now? Summoning isnt teleportation now? Both arent instant? Both were shown or implied to take some time to their 'instant'.
Why you have this bias regarding sasuke?
Not having more chakra, but because Minato clearly stated that Madara's new form was more powerful than what Obito previously displayed, both of their powers come from the Juubi, or rather, Rikudo's senjutsu, and Rikudo Senjutsu gives more power, speed, strength, faster reactions, better sensing, etc., so if one has more of that power, they will obviously have a stronger portion of it, I shouldn't even need to explain this to you.
Fail, just fail. This rikudou senjutsu is but enhancement to already existing skills of user. This is how it works
No, Obito's reactions beat Madara's striking speed, not his reactions, and then he simply attacked Madara, going by that logic, base Pain Arc Naruto is faster than Minato as he managed to punch him in the stomach in a similar way.
Dude, that isnt even minato, its just some chakra taking his shape inside naruto's mind, a freaking message, you can expect him to be real deal, while madara just failed to react with his rinnegan and senjutsu, no excuse here.
For what ? Owning you ? You can blame your own half assed, flawed logic for that.
Naruto was able to immediately sense sasuke behind him while he initially thought that it was sasuke to save sakura.
This proves that had susanoo been present already it would be spotted by him.
Sensing kakashi is one thing sensing huge mass of chakra is another. Even thou he sensed kakashi he couldnt count on him as latter was fodder status.
There's also a fact that naruto was in air thus PS would certainly fall into his vision angle if it had been there.
Do you realize that you just proved my point even further ? Naruto thought Sasuke grabbed Sakura even after he saw PS, only then he realized it wasn't Sasuke, who was right behind him the whole time.
1- He didn't sense Kakashi leaving the spot
2- He didn't sense Susano'o being activated
3- He didn't sense Sasuke who was right behind him and initially thought that Sasuke left the spot without him noticing.
See that tengu nose? Sasuke is spawning PS right away.
It was obviously a V4 Susano'o transforming into a PS. But then again, he was armoring it on Kurama avatar, so you can't say for sure, fact remains that every time PS was summoned standalone, Susano'o was summoned in its lower forms and then transformed into PS. The fact that you need to use Susano'o and then stabilize its chakra in order to use PS is enough evidence that he can't spawn it completely formed right away
Im strongly confused. So FTG isnt teleportation now? Summoning isnt teleportation now? Both arent instant? Both were shown or implied to take some time to their 'instant'.
Putting words in my mouth again, are we ? When did I say they aren't teleportation ? When did I say they aren't instant ? summons only take the time to draw the blood, after that it instantly teleports to where you summoned it. FTG requires marking the battlefield or spreading marked Kunai throughout the battlefield, after that, the user freely and instantly teleports to any of the marked spots at will, but of course, if he's going to avoid an attack, he needs to react first. Sasuke can instantly teleport to anywhere within range. Teleportation is instant, always has been, always will be, don't try to change what physicists far wiser and smarter than you have established ages ago.
And FFS, stop calling people biased just because they disagree with you, it's getting annoying af and you sound more butthurt every time you say it.
Fail, just fail. This rikudou senjutsu is but enhancement to already existing skills of user. This is how it works
No shit, Sherlock. Which only proves that the more senjutsu you have, the more your techniques will be enhanced, their stats before the boost are too negligible to fill in the gap between their respective amounts of Senjutsu.
Dude, that isnt even minato, its just some chakra taking his shape inside naruto's mind, a freaking message, you can expect him to be real deal, while madara just failed to react with his rinnegan and senjutsu, no excuse here.
It was a part of Minato's chakra, a simple message doesn't maintain a conversation, it says what it needs to be said and then leaves, it doesn't feel pain either. Madara didn't fail to react, Obito just hit him at point blank-range, if he actually had a technique that would allow him to phase through an attack like Obito, he would have phased through it with just as much ease, unless you're implying that Obito is fast enough to blitz Juubi Jin Madara when the latter could react to 8th Gate Gai, in which case you shouldn't be taken seriously at this point.
